In this episode of Mormon Stories Podcast, we sit down with Ceci Hendrickson, who shares her story of growing up in the FLDS Church before the rise of Warren Jeffs and witnessing how the church transformed under his leadership. Warren Jeffs was once her high school principal, long before he became the self-proclaimed prophet of the FLDS Church.
Ceci walks us through her upbringing in a large polygamist family, where strict rules, indoctrination, and obedience were woven into everyday life. She describes how life changed dramatically when Warren Jeffs took power, detailing how religious practices became increasingly extreme. Families were torn apart as church members were regularly sent away, creating a culture of fear and paranoia within the community. We explore the realities of arranged marriages, the phrase “keep sweet,” and the systems that normalized control and abuse—especially for women and children.
As a teenager, Ceci was suddenly told she would be married, launching her into a polygamous marriage that she now recognizes as child abuse. She shares what it was like to be reassigned within families, to live in hiding after crimes were committed, and to witness children—including her sister wife’s 12-year-old stepdaughter—being handed over to Warren Jeffs himself as plural wives. We also discuss the YFZ Ranch in Texas, the 2008 raid, Warren Jeffs’ continued control of the church from prison, and how his actions ultimately contributed to the unraveling of the FLDS community.
We then discuss Ceci’s escape from polygamy, how she managed to reclaim her children from the church, and how she built a new life for her family outside of the FLDS faith.
Today, Ceci is a mother, entrepreneur, and advocate, using her voice to help other women find their way out and reclaim their lives.
Episode Transcript
Host: John Dehlin · Co-host: Margi Dehlin · Guest: Ceci Hendrickson
This transcript is machine-generated and lightly edited for readability. The audio is authoritative. Please excuse occasional errors in names and spelling.
Introduction and Guest Welcome
John Dehlin [00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories podcast. I'm your host, John Dehlin. It's December 16, 2025, and today we'll be answering the question again, but from a different angle with a different person. What was it like to grow up in Warren Jeff's Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the FLDS Church as a polygamist's wife? And I think we can say teenage bride. Is that right?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:00:27] I was, yes.
John Dehlin [00:00:28] So today we are interviewing Cece Hendrik. Hi, Cece.
Margi Dehlin [00:00:33] Hi.
John Dehlin [00:00:33] Thanks for joining us.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:00:34] Thank you so much for having me.
John Dehlin [00:00:36] It's a pleasure to have you. And Margi is co host. Hey, Margi.
Margi Dehlin [00:00:40] Hi.
John Dehlin [00:00:41] And my wife. Some people want to know. Wait, are y' all married? Are we married, Margi?
Margi Dehlin [00:00:44] We are indeed.
John Dehlin [00:00:45] We're married. So Margi is my co host. Hey, Mark. No, but for those who have been joining us on Mormon Stories for a long time, and even for those who haven't, we've covered polygamy several times on Mormon Stories. We started with Ann Wilde, who was married to an early sort of independent Mormon polygamist in the 70s and 80s. She joined as an active, faithful Latter Day Saint.
John Dehlin [00:01:16] But since then, we've interviewed Lance and Vance Allred from the Allred Group. We've interviewed Amanda Ray, who is with the Kingston Group. And of course, we've interviewed Sam and Melissa Zeiting. Sam grew up in the FLDS church. And then Elise Wall is probably the most popular interview we've ever done on Mormon Stories podcast as well. But just because polygamy is continuously in the news and because each one of these stories deserves to be told, but also because it, to me, it really does still tie to Joseph Smith and the legacy that we have regarding Joseph Smith and plural marriage that affects us all today.
John Dehlin [00:02:05] I think it's important to regularly cover this topic with a new set of eyes or a new set of hearts or experiences. And so, without any further ado, Cece Hendrickson, thank you for being willing to come on the podcast. It's great to. It's great to have you.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:02:24] Thank you so much for having me. I. I'm grateful to be able to come on and share my perspective and my story. Coming from the flds, it was. I, you know, I feel a lot of times that I resonate with other Mormon stories, but with that said, there's also another part of it that is so different.
John Dehlin [00:02:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I probably. It probably is worth mentioning at the outset that you were in the flds. You were living In. Well, I guess you said that Warren Jeps was the principal of your school before he was a prophet. Is that right?
Warren Jeffs and the FLDS Origins
Ceci Hendrickson [00:03:04] Yes. So I don't remember which year it was. I want to say 2002 or somewhere
John Dehlin [00:03:13] around the Winter Olympics, Right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:03:15] Then everyone came to Colorado City. They moved from Salt Lake, came to Colorado City, and from there, Warren became the principal of a new school. It was Alta Academy in Salt Lake, and then it became Jeff's Academy in Colorado City. And I was a student there, and he was the principal. So he would pop into the classrooms and ask you random questions like, are you keeping the faith? Are you saying your prayers? Or all of these things to kind of. As a young person, I remember feeling very honored because he was a big deal in the community. So if he was paying attention to you or asking you those questions, you were like, wait, I grabbed his attention. Which is so crazy to think about now, because it's. It's the kind of attention that a teenager probably shouldn't be wanting, but it was so ingrained into us to want that, that it was important.
John Dehlin [00:04:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all that to say you were living in Hildel, slash, Colorado City during the rise of Orange F. Yes. And through his demise as well. Even though, you know, there's a hideout involved that we'll be talking about.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:04:28] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:04:29] Anyway, it's good stuff. So without any further ado, I guess let's jump in to your. I guess I want to call it a Mormon story. But y'.
Margi Dehlin [00:04:41] All.
John Dehlin [00:04:41] Y'.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:04:41] All.
John Dehlin [00:04:41] Did y' all think of yourselves as Mormons?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:04:43] Not at all.
John Dehlin [00:04:43] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:04:44] In fact, we. They. They would tell us, like, we were not Mormons. We're different than Mormons because we. Their whole, like, indoctrination was we were first fundamentalists, so we are carrying on the real beliefs of the Mormon Church. So they were. It's so weird to me because they didn't want to be Mormons, but they were like, we're carrying on the true Mormon Church. So it was so there's just so much like. I don't even know what you want to call it. Yeah. It's just they wanted to be so different, and they were. They were different. So I don't know. I guess it's just. We weren't Mormons. We were the flds and the true church.
John Dehlin [00:05:31] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [00:05:31] And the idea was. The idea like you were the original or the pure. The more pure form.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:05:39] Yep. It was, you know, we carried on what God originally asked Joseph Smith to do. So we're the true Church, we're the pure hearted. Like, yeah, you were taught that you were better than everyone else. Yeah, unfortunately.
John Dehlin [00:05:54] Yeah. And for those also who want a deep history on the emergence of the FLDS Church, we did a really, really good episode with Brian Buchanan just in the past year where he talked about this new John Taylor revelation that came out and the history of the FLDS in the context of Mormon prophet John Taylor, but also his son, John Taylor Jr. And you know, the emergence of this secret hid revelation that just recently the. The LDS Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has acknowledged was authentic and was the founding that. Your eyes just went big for a second.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:06:39] Yeah, I was like, they actually acknowledged that it was. Oh, wow. Okay.
John Dehlin [00:06:44] Just this year, I did not know that the history department released a version of the revelation and admitted that they had it in their possession for, I don't know, 100 years and that it was an authentic document.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:06:59] So does that mean that the Mormons also believe it was true?
John Dehlin [00:07:03] That's a different story.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:07:05] Okay, that's really interesting. I'm gonna have to go look into that.
John Dehlin [00:07:07] Okay, well, we'll have Brooklyn or Julia include in the links that interview with Brian Buchanan because it's definitely worth listening to. But that's fun that you didn't know.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:07:17] Yeah, I did not know that.
John Dehlin [00:07:18] Okay. Anyway, we're not gonna be able to cover the whole history of the FLDS Church in this episode. That's why I'm letting people know about that episode first. But let's do ask you, like, how much do you know about your ancestors and when and where they became Mormon fundamentalists?
FLDS History and Fundamentalist Roots
Ceci Hendrickson [00:07:41] I don't know, like when they became Mormon fundamentalists, but I do know that. So John Y. Barlow was one of the prophets shortly after John Taylor. Right? I don't know. Is it the one right after somewhere down the line? Anyway, he's my great grandfather.
John Dehlin [00:07:56] Okay, so you're a descendant of one of the early FLDS prophets.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:08:00] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:08:00] A direct descendant.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:08:01] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:08:02] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:08:02] He's my great grandfather on my mother's side. And we obviously he was passed away and gone by the time I was born, but. Yeah, so that's kind of. That's where it all started for like my bloodline in the flds.
John Dehlin [00:08:17] And just to give like a three minute version of the history, maybe I'll tell you my understanding and you can correct me. Is that okay?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:08:25] That's perfect. Yes.
John Dehlin [00:08:26] So polygamy was forbidden in the Mormon Church from 1830 to around 1840. Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants, the 1835 version of the Doctrine and Covenants in section 101 explicitly wrote that polygamy is forbidden. The Book of Mormon says it's forbidden unless God is to raise up a righteous seed. But for the first 10 years, it was generally publicly understood that polygamy was forbidden. Then Joseph Smith started practicing it secretly in 1840 and took about 30 to 30. 30 or 40 wives between 1840 and 1844. You're shaking your head.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:09:10] No, I'm just saying it's crazy too. Yeah, sorry.
John Dehlin [00:09:12] No, no, it's good. I want to hear your reaction.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:09:15] No, whenever I hear this story about Joseph Smith taking on lot wives, I can't help but compare Warren Jeffs and Joseph Smith to each other. I am sorry if that offense.
John Dehlin [00:09:26] No, we're here for that comparison. Because you knew Warren Jeffs.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:09:29] Yeah, I always think that where I'm like, he. Because I've had very, you know, personal conversations with wives of Warren Jeffs, and they're like, yeah, he took so many wives within these certain amount of years. And I'm just like, this is so crazy to me that it's like history repeating itself in its own way.
John Dehlin [00:09:44] Yeah, well, we are here for that because. Because honestly, there probably are meaningful differences between Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs.
Margi Dehlin [00:09:53] Sure.
John Dehlin [00:09:53] And so we don't want to say they're the same.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:09:56] No.
John Dehlin [00:09:57] But also I think maybe many believing orthodox Mormons don't know that there are similarities. But you knew Warren Jeffs. So I can represent what I know about Joseph Smith and you can too. And then you can tell us where there are similarities and differences. So that's okay. So from 1840 to 1844, Joseph Smith takes about between 30 and 40 wives. Some of them were married other men at the time he took them on. Others were teenagers, some were as young as 14. And you can stop or comment at any point. Go ahead.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:10:32] I was gonna say. Yeah, that's. And that was kind of how Warren Jess did that as well. Like he started to take wives younger and younger and younger until he was taking 12 year old wives. By the time Mary just stopped. So right before his arrest, he was taking on as young as 12 year olds.
John Dehlin [00:10:49] Okay, yeah, yeah. And so in that sense, we don't know of Joseph going below 14, but that's pretty close, 12 and 14. So Warren was kind of following after Joseph's example. And then in 1844, one of Joseph's counselors in the First Presidency, William Law, broke from Joseph, published a newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor, told the world that Joseph had been hiding and lying about his practice of polygamy. And Joseph had the printing press destroyed, the Navajo expositor, and for that was sent to Carthage jail, where a mob killed him. We all agree on that.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:11:30] Yes, that's what we were taught as well. I mean, all the stories lead back to that exact thing.
John Dehlin [00:11:36] So, okay, so then Brigham took a good chunk of the Latter Day Saints, or Mormons, west to Utah, kept practicing polygamy, didn't come out publicly as practicing Polygamy until around 1855ish, I want to say. And that's when the Mormons just stood up and said, yep, we're doing it, it's true. And. And so then practiced it heavily from eight, you know, from 1840 up until 1890, when the government, the US government more and more in the, in the late 1880s, started really imprisoning Mormon leaders and seizing their property. And it was an existential threat to the church. So the church declared publicly in 1890 that it was going to stop practicing polygamy forever, and then it secretly kept practicing polygamy forever. True.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:12:39] Well, okay, so my question on this is, like, when they said, let's stop polygamy completely, was it because they felt like it was wrong, or was it because the law was making them? That's a question I've always had.
John Dehlin [00:12:53] Well, and Bryan talks about this in depth. That's why you'll need to check out the episode. But, no, the church leaders still believed, it was taught all through Brigham Young afterwards, that polygamy was required for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, that a man could not reach the highest degree of the celestial kingdom without being in plural marriage, and that it would never be taken from the earth.
John Dehlin [00:13:18] That it was. It was the new and everlasting covenant as described in what is now Doctrine and Covenant, Section 132. Everlasting, meaning it's not going away. So, yes, even though to get the government off their back, in 1890, they issue Declaration One, I think it was called the Official Declaration One, which is Wilford Woodruff saying that we're going to stop practicing polygamy. We know now in the LDS Church that the modern RLDS church, not the FLDS church, admits that for another 15 years. Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, John Taylor. Sorry, Wilford Woodruff and Lorenzo Snow, Wilfer, Joseph F. Smith, they were all practicing polygamy, approving polygamous marriages.
John Dehlin [00:14:11] And if they were doing less of it in the United States, they sent Mormons to Canada and Mexico. So Northern Mexico and Southern Canada to continue the practice.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:14:22] Okay.
John Dehlin [00:14:23] So we know that at least through the 1915, 1920s, that mainstream LDS prophets and apostles were still performing or approving of or allowing plural marriages in the mainstream church. Okay, but publicly saying that we had stopped.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:14:48] Right? Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:14:49] Does that answer your question?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:14:51] Yes, that does completely. Because the way. The way I, you know, the way I was taught growing up was that, you know, Mormons stopped. And it was by that revelation of Wilford Woodruff.
John Dehlin [00:15:04] Is that the name 1890?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:15:06] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:15:06] Official declaration.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:15:07] Yeah, that he was. That it was actually revelation from the devil. Like we were taught that it was revelation from Satan and we were to continue it. Because they're wrong. We're right. And that's kind of where the breakoff happened, right?
John Dehlin [00:15:20] Yep. And it's a little more complicated than that. Cause my understanding is it took another 20 or 30 years, years after 1890, for the FLDS to emerge. And so what happened was there were some apostles who didn't like polygamy. Well, what happened was we just kept practicing it and just lied about it until the Smoot hearing. So we wanted a senator named by the last name of Smoot to be seated, because we did Declaration one, the federal government allowed Utah to become a state.
John Dehlin [00:15:55] So then we had senators elected. But the government back in Washington, D.C. knew that we were still practicing it. So because of that, they wouldn't allow, I think George Smoot was his name to be a senator. And so they had hearings. So they brought Joseph F. Smith, our prophet, back to D.C. and said, you guys issued official declaration one, but you're still practicing it. And you know, we're not going to let you guys have your senators serve until you really, really stop.
Margi Dehlin [00:16:27] Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:16:28] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:16:28] And Joseph F. Smith had to testify in D.C. 15 years after official declaration one, that. Okay, no, this time we really mean it. This time we're really gonna stop practicing polygamy. And he went as far as to issue official declaration 2, which was US saying, okay, this time we mean it. Why are you laughing, Margi? Why are you laughing?
Margi Dehlin [00:16:52] Because it's funny. The Declaration one was a lie. But he's thinking, I know. It's Declaration two, though.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:17:00] It's literally like a child. Totally different.
Margi Dehlin [00:17:03] Because it's true.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:17:06] Believe us, this time.
John Dehlin [00:17:07] Yeah. The difference between Declaration 1 and Declaration 2 is we mean it with Declaration 2, but we didn't mean.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:17:13] It's totally different.
Margi Dehlin [00:17:14] It's totally different.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:17:16] That's hilarious.
John Dehlin [00:17:16] And so that was around. This is all true. And the LDS Church admits this. Now, this is not okay. Yeah. So around 1905, they issued Declaration 2, but then it still didn't end polygamy. There were still apostles who didn't want to let it go into the 1910s. The LDS Church had to excommunicate a couple apostles who just wouldn't let it go. And that eventually, by the 1915, 1920s, the church really is serious about stamping it out for good. And that's when the emergence of this John Taylor Jr. Revelation, which basically is just that. John Taylor, the prophet that preceded Wilford Woodruff. So it's the third prophet of the church. It was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, then John Taylor. John Taylor, while he was in hiding, received a revelation from God. Why are you laughing?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:18:15] Because, like, whenever it's received a revelation, it's like, what? Like these people did they. I swear they just made it up.
John Dehlin [00:18:24] Well, what John Taylor. The revelation that John Taylor received while he was prophet is that polygamy should continue, but that a chosen, secret, select group of people should continue the practice. And so that revelation was never given to the church, but it was given to us. Somehow. Somehow his son, John Taylor Jr. Who I believe was an apostle, I think so, came upon the revelation, started sharing it. And that's when your. I'm sure your grandfather. Great grandfather Barto.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:18:56] Yes, great grandfather.
John Dehlin [00:18:57] I'm sure him with other people. There were probably all Reds and there were Jeffs, and I forget all the names of the early founders of your Florida.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:19:07] Barlow, Johnson, Jeff's Allred. There's a few more I can't think of right off the top of my head.
John Dehlin [00:19:14] Yeah, those dudes got together and said, we're gonna keep living the principle. And it was a Mormon prophet, John Taylor, that authorized it. Yeah, right.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:19:26] Yeah. And I think too, the reason they were like a few select people is they knew it was going to be the people that would actually listen and do like, they would be like, oh, yeah, we're all on board. It wasn't that God selected these few. I think John Taylor was like, I'm only going to tell the people that I think believe what I'm saying, because they already want to continue this. Right. I think that's, you know, probably most likely what happened there because they. A lot of those people already had multiple wives and they didn't want to part with them. They were like, why tear up our family? We're already living this polygamy and we don't want to break our family up. So, yeah, it was like a workaround that they needed to come up with so they could Keep their families going as they were.
John Dehlin [00:20:09] Totally. Yeah, yeah. And yeah. So. So that those men started talking, as I understand, in the nineteen teens, nineteen twenties, and then they. They started a break off splinter secret church. And for a time, the LDS Church didn't know how to deal with it, but eventually they realized it was going to be a huge PR if the government started believing that we were secretly still practicing it. So your ancestors started getting excommunicated by the mainstream Mormon Church.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:20:50] And then that's where all the other prophets that a lot of the Mormon Church don't know that carried on throughout the flds. And it went my great grandfather, and then there was a Johnson prophet, and then there was Rulin Jeffs and then his son Warren, who turned the FLDS polygamous church into something so completely different from where it started. Do you want me to just take it from there?
John Dehlin [00:21:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the history. And so what were you taught about how you fit into that history and your ancestors?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:21:26] Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, pretty much everything that you talked about as far as the Mormon Church is also what we believed. But where it changed for the FLDS versus the Mormon Church is we did not believe that Wilford Woodruff was a prophet or anything like that. It went like Brigham Young and then whoever the. Like John.
John Dehlin [00:21:44] John Taylor was.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:21:45] Okay, yeah, John Taylor. And then I think it was Lauren C. Woolley or something like that. I'm trying to remember all the names,
John Dehlin [00:21:53] but y' all would hate Wilford Woodruff or not like Wilford Woodruff because he abandoned.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:21:57] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:21:57] The principal.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:21:58] Yes. So it just started like the. The line of prophets started after whoever believed in polygamy, after Wilford Woodruff. So, like, all the rest were cut off. They're like, we don't believe in those people. And so it went on down to Warren Jeffs, who, you know, at first he. When I was born, Rulan Jeffs was the prophet at the time.
John Dehlin [00:22:18] And you were born where?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:22:20] In Hildel, in. In Hildale, Utah. So that's part of Colorado City. It's literally the same town. One's on the Utah side, one's on the Arizona side. And that was in 1987. So.
John Dehlin [00:22:33] And let's just say really quickly that. That. Yeah. Do you know when the. When the FLDS church started really settling and moving to Southern Utah, you know, slash Arizona.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:22:48] I don't know the exact year because they were already pretty established there when I was born. But the prophet didn't live there. The prophet lived in Salt Lake.
John Dehlin [00:22:57] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:22:57] And so they, you know, he had little branches. He had one in Canada. He had one in. In Colorado City. He had one here in Salt Lake. Like, he had many different branches, but he was over all of them. So he would fly to the different areas on certain Sundays and do his church whatever with them. But then, I want to say every so many months, he would do, like, a big conference in Colorado City where everyone would try to come and meet. I think it was once a year, actually, that they would do that.
Growing Up in Colorado City
John Dehlin [00:23:32] And were you taught about the Short Creek raids?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:23:34] Yes, in 1953.
John Dehlin [00:23:36] Okay. Yeah. So let's talk. So, like, while the prophet's still in Salt Lake, the fl. This prophet, and while he's growing his church in southern Utah and also in Canada, in Mexico, did you say?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:23:52] I don't know. All of Canada says, yeah, I know for sure. Canada.
John Dehlin [00:23:56] But the FLDS presence started growing in southern Utah. And so, yeah, talk about the Hill Dale, what you would remember about those raids.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:24:04] The Short Creek raids, yes. So I. Obviously, it happened quite a few years before I was born. I don't think my dad was alive during the raids. It was a few years before that, too. But there was definitely a raid on what? Colorado City, what they called Short Creek back then. And they came in. I don't know the entire story, but they were looking for polygamists, and there was a lot of, you know, protecting their lifestyle. So I'm sure at that time they had to come up with stories to protect their families. And, you know, it happened again later in the Texas race.
John Dehlin [00:24:44] It was like, police.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:24:46] Police coming in. The kids were hiding under the beds, like.
John Dehlin [00:24:50] And they're arresting the dads. Yeah, right.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:24:52] Arresting the dads. They had all the dads up in front of us. One of the little schools that they had there, and they're just, like, asking questions. They held them throughout the night. I don't know if at that point they let them go. I don't remember the entire story, if they let them go that night, like, the next morning, or if they held them for a while and they had to, like, work out all the details and be like, look, we're not actually.
John Dehlin [00:25:15] My understanding. Tell me my understanding. And I'm sorry we don't know this more in detail, but my understanding is they didn't really think it through because they arrested as many polygamous fathers as they could because Utah didn't like the continued association. The LDS Church didn't like the continued association with polygamy.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:25:35] Right.
John Dehlin [00:25:36] So it was illegal. So they wanted to stamp it Out. And of course, the federal government didn't like it, but they didn't think it through because by arresting all the dads, what that left were aborted. Bunch of women and children not being provided for. Right.
Margi Dehlin [00:25:50] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:25:51] And then. And then what? They're supposed to rely on the state? Like, there's no. There's no fallback for that there, you know, And I think that's when they did that and they realized they'd kind of messed up, which it's a repeated thing that they've done be, you know, they've done since then now. And they realize, wait, this is. This actually didn't fix anything. It didn't. It's not going to stop anyone from doing this. It's not going to stop them from living their lifestyle. So I don't know, at what point did they, like, let the fathers go back or what they had to go through?
John Dehlin [00:26:19] Yeah, but they did at some point. They had. And they kind of stopped doing raids for the most part.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:26:25] They kind of just left them alone for a very long time. Yeah, a very long time.
Margi Dehlin [00:26:30] What year was that?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:26:31] Was 1953.
Margi Dehlin [00:26:32] Okay.
John Dehlin [00:26:33] Yeah. So from 53, there may have been a raid or two here or there, but generally speaking, after the Short Creek raids, they're just like, we don't really know what to do. So, yeah, we'll just kind of leave them alone and hope nothing bad happens.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:26:46] Right from 1953 until, like 2000, I want to say 2004, I think the people, for the most part felt okay just living their life. There was definitely. Your eyes were always peeled. Like, if you saw someone you didn't know or that looked like they were outside of the flds, come through town, you would keep your eye on them. Kind of like, what are they doing here? What do they want? We were always taught that news was bad. Don't ever talk to any kind of news, because sometimes news would come out there and try to pick, you know, pick up information or make a story, and we just were not to talk to them ever.
John Dehlin [00:27:24] And what I remember is around the 2002 Winter Olympics, once they were awarded to Salt Lake City, there was some polygamist named Tom Green who got, like, national attention. So, like, the LDS Church in Utah is all super excited to have the Winter Olympics here. Mitt Romney was involved, and he saved the Olympics. But then a huge percentage of the news was all about Mormons being weird and still practicing polygamy. And so that's. I think that's when your church started getting a lot more heat and scrutiny.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:27:57] I have to agree with you on that. I forgot about that. So when.
John Dehlin [00:28:01] 2002.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:28:01] Yes, in 2002, when they heard that the Olympics were going to be in Salt Lake. The prophet at the time, Rulan Jeffs, was convinced that during the Olympics, the destructions were going to happen and Salt Lake City was going to be destroyed.
John Dehlin [00:28:13] The second coming maybe was even going to come.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:28:15] So he was like, kay, everyone, get out of Salt Lake. We are moving. And they had a. I mean, it was two months. Everybody had to be moved, and they were.
John Dehlin [00:28:25] And my understanding is Warren Jeffs led a school here, like in Sandy or something.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:28:29] Yes, it was. Well, Alta.
John Dehlin [00:28:32] Alta, yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:28:32] Because they called Alta Academy.
John Dehlin [00:28:34] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:28:34] But, yeah, he had a school here. His. Their entire Jeff's family lived up here. They were very established here. So when he said everyone out of Salt Lake within two months or however long it was, it was a very short amount of time. Everyone in Colorado City started prepping their homes to take more families in because there was nowhere for any of these people to go there. You can't just build a house in two months like that. Like, not. Not in that high of a number of homes that needed to be made. So people were moving their families into one side of the house and blocking it off and prepping the other side of their house for a family to come and stay from Salt Lake as they were all moving down. So, like, the whole Salt Lake branch of the FLDS moved to Colorado City at that time.
John Dehlin [00:29:22] Okay, so let's weave your story in here now, because if you're born in 87, that means that your teen year, early teen years, would have been prior to the Winter Olympics.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:29:34] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:29:34] And prior to this mass relocation. So do you want to. Well, anything else you want to say about your parents, grandparents?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:29:41] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:29:42] And then let's talk about your life in Colorado City, slash Hill Dell, prior to the Winter Olympics.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:29:50] Okay, perfect.
John Dehlin [00:29:51] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:29:52] So my. My entire grandparents, great grandparents, everyone was born in the FLDS or joined it when it was still pretty new. So I never knew anything different. They were all married in it, had multiple wives, and my parents got married as high school sweethearts, actually.
John Dehlin [00:30:14] Do you know what age?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:30:16] Yes, they were 19. Both of them. Both of them were 19 when they got married. And three years, actually five years after they were married, my dad took a second wife who happened to be my mom's younger sister.
Margi Dehlin [00:30:31] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:30:31] So he was married to two sisters. It's crazy to think about, but your
John Dehlin [00:30:36] mom was a first wife.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:30:37] Yes, my mom was a first wife. I was 10 months old when my dad took a second wife. So I don't remember my dad ever just having my mom as his wife. Life was pretty normal, I want to say, even with the two wives, because they were sisters, they got along pretty great. Like, there was no drama, really. They just raised their babies together.
John Dehlin [00:30:57] Let me ask a couple of quick questions. What was your dad's last name?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:00] He's a Jessup.
John Dehlin [00:31:01] He's a Jessup?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:02] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:31:02] Okay, so he was related to Warren and Jesse.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:06] No, that's Jeff's.
John Dehlin [00:31:06] Yeah, Jessup. Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:08] Yeah, Jessup is also a very, like, common name there, too. So. Yeah, My biological father is a Jessup.
John Dehlin [00:31:15] As a Jessup. And your mom was a Barlow. Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:17] Yeah. So that's where the tie in to John Y. Barlow, who was the prophet, comes in. Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:31:22] Okay. And then. Sorry. Thank you for helping me get all this straight.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:26] No worries.
Polygamous Family Structure and Marriage Practices
John Dehlin [00:31:27] So would your parents have been assigned to be married?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:32] Yes. So.
John Dehlin [00:31:33] And who would have done that?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:34] Yeah. So even though they were technically high school sweethearts, because they went to school together, they didn't really fall in love before they were assigned. They were assigned by Leroy Johnson, who was the prophet at the time. He was the prophet before ruling.
John Dehlin [00:31:50] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:50] So they were assigned to be married.
John Dehlin [00:31:52] And so that's the thing where the prophet got to decide who married who.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:56] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:31:56] That's wild.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:31:57] Right? And, you know, during that time when Leroy Johnson was the prophet, he did allow a few people to come to him and be like, we're thinking about being together. Will you basically condone this? Or, you know, let us do this, and he would marry them. So back then, it was. There was a little more leniency as far as that goes. He didn't allow all the time. He would definitely still do his assigned marriages, but there was a lot more leniency back when he was the prophet. But once Rulin Jeffs became the prophet, that all changed. There was no matchmaking before. He was the decider that who you married was who you married.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:32:38] And we were pretty much taught at that time that if you were someone that was like, no, I don't want to marry that person, then you were being rebellious. And a lot of times if you did that, you weren't ever given another opportunity to marry someone else. You pretty much just didn't get that opportunity. Like, you turned it down, so you're done.
John Dehlin [00:32:58] So your parents were married under which prophet?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:00] Leroy Johnson.
John Dehlin [00:33:01] So they were sweethearts. Did they ask permission?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:04] No.
John Dehlin [00:33:04] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:05] No, they were placed together, but they
John Dehlin [00:33:08] were okay with that.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:08] They were okay with it. I think two people who kind of knew each other before because they went to school together, getting married, like, it was. It was the best they could probably ask for in the circumstances they were living under and similar age, which isn't always the case.
John Dehlin [00:33:24] Large.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:25] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [00:33:25] Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:26] So I think that they were pretty happy with the arrangement in the beginning. Like, everything was great. And, you know, dad took another wife when they had been together for about five years.
John Dehlin [00:33:37] Was he into construction?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:33:39] He worked. He was a manager of a. Of the local hardware store. Oh, yeah. So he just worked at the hardware store. He wasn't like, at this time, my dad really didn't have a big influence in the community as far as the priesthood beliefs go. Like, he was just a dad doing his thing and. Yeah, so he was just a manager of the hardware store at the time.
John Dehlin [00:34:05] Okay, and you were where in the birth order with your mom?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:10] Okay, so my mom had a daughter and a son, and then me. So I'm the third of my mom's 12 children.
John Dehlin [00:34:17] Whoa, 12 biological children.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:19] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:34:19] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:20] Yep. And then my dad took another wife.
John Dehlin [00:34:24] Your mom's sister.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:25] Yes, my mom's sister, which Joseph Smith did.
John Dehlin [00:34:27] He married multiple sister pairs. He also married mother, daughter, parents.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:32] Yes. Yeah, yeah. Which is also very common in the FLBs.
John Dehlin [00:34:37] Why are you sighing, Margi?
Margi Dehlin [00:34:41] It's sigh worthy.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:43] Yes, it is.
John Dehlin [00:34:44] Well, is it? I mean, I want to hear what it was like, if it was good
Ceci Hendrickson [00:34:47] or bad or, you know, I didn't ever live that. I was never in the situation where it was mother and daughter, but the sister and sister, like, honestly, it was a better arrangement than others I know of because they did already somewhat love each other. You know, sisters, they work it out like they want to be.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:35:08] They want to love each other. They loved each other before. Like, why wouldn't you continue at least trying to love each other, even though now that there's this man involved. And I think that's what my mom and her sister really tried to do. Like, I don't remember them really fighting or disagreeing. Maybe one time my mom was like, hey, should we take this conversation into the other room? Like, not in front of the kids.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:35:30] And I know there was tension as a child, you can pick that up. But for the most part, I think they really tried to just be peaceful up until my dad took a third wife and I was 11 years old at this time. It changed the entire dynamic of our family. And I don't think it's necessarily her fault. Like, I'm sure she didn't really want to be there either, you know, and she was actually 17 years old, so.
John Dehlin [00:35:57] But. And your dad would have been how old at that point?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:36:01] I don't even know. He definitely was in his 30s, probably his later 30s.
John Dehlin [00:36:07] You know, Joseph Smith was in his late 30s when he was doing polygamy. Big time.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:36:11] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:36:12] So when he was marrying 14, 15, 16 year old girls, he was in his late 30s.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:36:16] Yeah. So I want to say my dad was around that age, maybe even into his 40s. I don't remember exactly, unfortunately. But he did take a third wife and it really changed the dynamic of our family at that point. I became a teenager shortly after, and less and less our voices mattered. Like, we had a pretty normal childhood up to about 11. And then it's like dad took that third wife and then everything about the church started to change. And what I mean by that is ruling Jeff's passes away.
John Dehlin [00:36:49] Oh, wait, before we get to that, can I ask you a couple quick questions? Okay. I really want to hear what you're about to say and a couple questions. So when your mom and her sister are living both married to your dad, are they living in the same house?
Margi Dehlin [00:37:04] Yeah, that was my question.
John Dehlin [00:37:06] And I don't want you to. I know that sometimes people ask like really probing, inappropriate questions. I'm not doing that. But what are you comfortable sharing about, like living arrangements and that sort of thing?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:37:17] No, no problem at all.
John Dehlin [00:37:18] Okay. Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:37:18] Yes. So my dad had a very small house when he took his second wife. But as we were, you know, as our family grew because they were still having ba, like my mom and this other mom was ha. They were having babies every two years at least. And so there was two babies every two years. So our family was growing very rapidly. And so dad built onto the house he already had. And yeah, we all lived under one roof as a family.
Margi Dehlin [00:37:47] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:37:48] Yeah. The half siblings that are from my mom's sister, they. I don't even like to call them half siblings because they just feel like our siblings. Like we're just all the ones that have left. Like we're all just tight knit. We just all hang out. Like we're all just one family, you know?
Margi Dehlin [00:38:06] So for you growing up, not a lot of alone time I'm imagining.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:38:11] Not at all. And you know, me being the third to the oldest, like you're. You're required. I mean, eight years old. I remember doing laundry for multiple people. Like, you know, big piles and piles of laundry. Laundry day was massive. Meals were massive. Like everything you took on a Lot of responsibility. By the time you were seven, eight years old, you were taking care of, you know, at least six little kids at a time. Like, you were required to grow up very fast. And also, too, like, by the time you're 12, they're prepping you for marriage. So, like, it's just constantly on your mind where you're like, well, I'm going to grow up and be a wife like, any day now, so I got to get ready for this.
Margi Dehlin [00:38:53] So you're basically placed in a miniature adult role as a child, where your work is actually essential.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:39:04] Right.
Margi Dehlin [00:39:04] It's required, and it's essential.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:39:06] Right. Your family, I mean, your family only operates by how much each person contributes, and that includes children, you know, because how are two moms supposed to take care of that many babies all at once, even though they're the ones having them? Like, we had to step in and, you know, help them with that responsibility. It's a huge responsibility.
Childhood in a Large Polygamous Household
John Dehlin [00:39:29] What was the peak number of children in the home while you were living at home that you remember?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:39:36] I want to say 27. Yeah, I want to say there was 27 children because, you know, I didn't get married until I was. Well, I call it married. I was never actually legally married, but I was placed. I didn't get placed until I was 16. So there was seven years there where my dad did have three wives, and they were all in their childbearing years, so they were just having children. You know, our family was still growing, and so when I was placed with my husband at the time, there was a lot of children under my family.
John Dehlin [00:40:13] So over 20. In one house. Yeah, each. And this doesn't necessarily have to be your family, but traditionally, in the FLDS community, historically, each wife would have her own room. Is that right?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:40:25] Yes, they would have their own room, but everything else was combined. We weren't even allowed to call our own mom Mom. We had to call all the mothers mother. So. And so we. We couldn't really ever claim our own mother as our own mother. We had to do our best at trying to claim all of them equally, love them all equally, respect them all equally. There was. And the mothers were to do the same with the children. They were supposed to, like, claim each child as their own, treat them as their own. It was very. It's really hard to have an identity in that kind of situation, because you're like, who do I really belong to? Like, even though each mom's supposed to claim each child as their own, there's really. No, that's not you don't ever really feel like you belong.
Margi Dehlin [00:41:12] Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:41:13] You're just a part of this great big family.
Margi Dehlin [00:41:16] Yeah. It's almost like you belong to the collective.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:41:18] Yeah. Yeah. It was like a group effort. There was no. I remember a few times, you know, trying to give my mom special care, like she might be going through something or whatever, and I would get in trouble for it. Like, dad would call me out and be like, hey, you know, you can only say I love you to her if you say I love you to the others.
Margi Dehlin [00:41:37] Oh, wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:41:38] Like, it was very just. Yeah. You had to accept everything as it was and not just what you thought was.
Margi Dehlin [00:41:48] That's right. It's like even your. There was control over your love.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:41:54] Oh, 100% how you were able to
Margi Dehlin [00:41:57] love and show love.
John Dehlin [00:41:58] But I could see why, if it was always like, well, this is my mom, and you hurt that kid and that kid. You hurt that mom.
Margi Dehlin [00:42:05] It was like the system wouldn't work that way.
John Dehlin [00:42:07] If everybody was fighting wars based on whose mom was who and whose kids
Ceci Hendrickson [00:42:13] were who, it would have been a lot of contention under one roof. It's almost like they had to do it that way to keep things as peaceful as they possibly could under the circumstances.
Margi Dehlin [00:42:22] And obedience. Obedience as the central.
John Dehlin [00:42:27] You're not my real mom. I'm not obeying you.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:42:29] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:42:29] There's no way. Yeah. Right. Speak over you.
Margi Dehlin [00:42:32] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:42:32] Is that what you meant? Yeah, but, yeah, that. That was 100% it, too. Like, you. I think it was really just how they kept the peace in. In the best way that they could. Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [00:42:43] Yeah. So can I ask about what you remember about yourself as a child? So maybe up through 11 and 12, like, how was. Do you remember? Like, were you a stressed child? Were you very social? Were you, like, happy? Yeah. Was your. Kind of. Was there a part of you that was like, I'm going to be the most helpful child? Like, how did you show up in this environment?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:43:09] I might cry talking about this. That. Okay.
John Dehlin [00:43:12] Yeah, please. Tissue's right there.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:43:16] I was a social butterfly. I was a very social kid growing up, and I had lots of siblings, so I had, you know, influence over my younger siblings. I would get them together and do, like, programs and do as much fun family things as I could under the circumstances. I'm so sorry. Until I was about. I want to say, 13, then I became a rebellious child.
John Dehlin [00:44:11] And did you have. What I think I'm sensing from your emotion was part of that how much you loved interacting with your siblings? Is it. Let's say, before you're deemed rebellious were those joyous times.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:44:30] They really were. I loved. I think what's making me emotional is how. How full of light and love I was. And then it felt like it was almost bad to be like that. Like you're too. It's too worldly to be silly and funny and
Margi Dehlin [00:44:56] so you had a lightness about you. Is that what you mean?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:44:59] Yeah. It makes me emotional because I see it in my own children.
Margi Dehlin [00:45:02] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:45:04] And it's something over the past few years that I have been so passionate about. Never squalling that light in them by letting them just be who they are. And yeah, it's not really anyone's fault as a child growing up in the flds to have that light taken from you in a way, because it was like, almost required. Like, you need to grow up now. You don't. You can't act like a child anymore. You're. You're. You're going to become a wife soon. You can't just be a little kid. And so, you know, around the year, I think I was about 13. Jeez, my videos are gonna look so bad. Sorry.
John Dehlin [00:45:47] Don't worry.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:45:50] When I was about 13, when I say I became rebellious, my attention turned from being this fun, light older sister to kind of seeking out attention from boys within the community. And it was my little secret. Like, it was something I had that I could keep to myself. I didn't have to perform.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:46:16] I could just do these little things without people picking me apart. And what I mean by that is I would sneak out at night, I would walk past this certain boy's workplace and he would whistle at me. It made me feel, you know, confident again because it was like I had been so swallowed up into needing to grow up so fast that I.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:46:42] It made me feel young, like a little kid again. Like I'm just being a kid, you know, normal kid things. And my dad found out, I think I was in my. I think I was about 14. My dad found out that I was doing these things and he obviously put a stop to it. That was. That was a big changing point for me because he started to have me listen to Warren Jeff's tapes, which were called home economics tapes, and what those are, are trainings on how to be a wife.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:47:19] And so my dad was basically like, if you. You have a choice here, you can continue down this path and you're going to end up happen to be removed from my home at 14, 15 years old. Or you can listen to these and focus all your time and energy on just really Learning how to become a wife.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:47:39] And at the time, I didn't want to leave my parents. I didn't want to leave my mom because I knew if I left, I'd be cut off from my entire family. And then that would be even worse than being told I needed to grow up.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:47:54] So I took the other path. I listened to those trainings. I became so faithful in my journey at that point. I had put every question, every just rebelliousness to rest and just fell in line.
John Dehlin [00:48:14] What were some of the highlights and lowlights from Warren Jeff's home economics tapes on how to be a wife, if you remember, what were the types of things he would teach?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:48:26] A lot of it. The things that stand out to me because I lived it, like, was to be some, you know, submissive and, you know, how to love your husband and his children, because most the time you. You were getting married as a plural wife. And even if you weren't at first, at some point you were going to become a plural wife. So a lot of those trainings were based around that, like how to love your sister wives and how to, you know, love your husband's children, all of them, not just your own. And, you know, things like that. That's what stands out to me right now. I can't think of.
John Dehlin [00:49:04] No, that's good.
Emotional Neglect and Family Dynamics
Margi Dehlin [00:49:06] I have a quick question about. You mentioned when your dad married his third wife. Things changing.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:49:17] Yes.
Margi Dehlin [00:49:18] How old were you?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:49:20] I was 11 when he took his third wife.
Margi Dehlin [00:49:22] Okay, so I. So if you were gonna say before life was like this, then what changed when they got like, how did it impact you? How did your world change?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:49:37] Yeah, so that, you know, and I think it's hard because the changing point when I was 11 to, you know, 13, when all that rebellious started to happen, when I was younger, before 11, it was just a lot more playful. The rules within the FLDS were more lenient than they are. Than they were as I got older. So when I was 11 and younger, dad took us fishing, camping, we could play sports. We, you know, even Warren Jeffs had these massive park days that he would do in Jeff's academy. And we would play. We'd play games together. We'd have fun together. And then when my.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:50:28] It was around the time my dad took his third wife. And that's why it's so, like, it's not her fault that this all changed. It was just the timeline of events that our family changed. And it was because everything changed. It wasn't just our family. It was the church dynamics. It was the way Warren Jeffs was leading the community. It was like everything changed at that point. All of a sudden, there was no pleasure at all.
Margi Dehlin [00:50:53] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:50:54] Children.
Margi Dehlin [00:50:54] It's serious.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:50:55] It's serious. Yes. Children don't play. We work hard. They banned dolls, bikes. Anything that was not building up Warren Jeff's kingdom was not allowed. So we, at that point, that's when pretty much all the kids started to get rid of anything that wasn't like, building up the kingdom.
Margi Dehlin [00:51:19] Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:51:19] You know, and you just. Their biggest motto was, work hard for the privilege of working harder, and.
John Dehlin [00:51:25] Whoa.
Margi Dehlin [00:51:26] Got it. For the privilege of working hard.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:51:29] Yeah. That was a huge phrase around that time that came out, like. And I think that was also around the time Warren Jess was planning his big, like, building up an actual place of Zion with a huge temple and all. Like, he was. That was the planning of all of this. And to do that, you need people to fall in line. You can't have children who are distracted with frivolous things of the world and parents who are one foot in, one foot out. He needed everyone to be on board. Yes. Like, they all needed to be on one side of this. And that was the side he wanted, which was focused on him.
Margi Dehlin [00:52:10] Yeah. It required more of an extreme experience, it sounds like. And that is like, I so understand your tenderness, your emotion, because literally, you left a self. You said goodbye to a part of yourself you remember.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:52:29] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:52:29] And before we leave that, I just want to really clarify one thing, because one of the hardest. One of the most difficult things I notice from any cult documentary or conversation is that almost without fail, the former cult members remember times in the cult as being the happiest times of their lives. And so I'm wondering, prior to your dad taking his third wife, prior to you starting to be interested in boys and your family clamping down, are your childhood memories of having two moms and a couple dozen kids all living in one home, playing together? Are they happy memories?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:53:15] They really are. And that's.
John Dehlin [00:53:17] Can you describe the happiness of living as a polygamous child?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:53:21] And that's the hardest part about sharing my story every time, because I'm like. Like, I would never condone this lifestyle. I don't think it's good.
Margi Dehlin [00:53:32] Yeah, ethically, yes, you would.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:53:34] But it's like, at the same time, I. Under the circumstances, we genuinely made the very best out of it. You know, like. Like I told you before, we would do plays, we'd do programs, we would sing together, we would go camping, we would do all these things. And there was so many of us. There was ever, not ever a time of being lonely or feeling like. Yeah, I don't know, like you just always had someone. Like, we were just a big family and we all hung out together and we had, you know, my mom would make me and my sister matching dresses. We would go to community events and like, it was all great time. So, yeah, it was a very happy childhood.
John Dehlin [00:54:16] And did your dad seem to get along with both your moms at that time?
Ceci Hendrickson [00:54:20] Yes. And that's another thing too, is it's
John Dehlin [00:54:23] like it was a happy home.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:54:25] Yeah, it genuinely was, for the most part. There's little pieces in between there.
Margi Dehlin [00:54:30] What are.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:54:30] I. I think dad was still. He was confused too, in some ways, because I think he knew what the priesthood expected of him. And trying to make what that priesthood is expecting of you and what you want your family to be meet is very difficult, especially from a parent's perspective, because you're required all this stuff. And if you come at your family hard and heavy with, well, the prophet said, do all this, all of a sudden you're the bad guy and your family's looking at you like, what happened? Like, why are you like this? And that. That literally did happen. When dad started to clamp down, I remember thinking, you've changed so much. Like, you're not even the dad I remember growing up with. They changed. I mean, even. Even down to, we don't call dad dad anymore. He's father and mom's not mom, so. And so it's Mother. Like normal, much more formal.
Margi Dehlin [00:55:29] Everything was distance.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:55:30] Yep. There was no. The human connection just became less and less and less.
John Dehlin [00:55:37] And this was Warren's influence.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:55:39] Yes.
John Dehlin [00:55:39] As Warren got more power.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:55:41] Yes. After his father died, it was Rulon, right? Yes. After rulon died in 2022.
John Dehlin [00:55:48] 2002.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:55:50] That's what I meant.
John Dehlin [00:55:51] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:55:51] Yeah. In 2002. Yeah. So when he died in 2002, Warren Jeffs became the Prophet. And that's when every. Under his influence, it was like he already had a predestined plan for what he wanted the people to do. Even before his father died, like, he had influence. Even before his father died, he was elderly and sick a lot. And so Warren was. Yes, Rulon was. So when Warren would get up on the stand and talk to the people, a lot of times he would say, father said this. But in reality, it makes you wonder, like, was he actually in charge long before the people suspected it? And so that's why the transition was so seamless. Almost like people just followed.
Margi Dehlin [00:56:36] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:56:37] So is. So is War. So you remember your parents being relatively happy and your childhood being relatively happy as a kid in an FLDS family.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:56:50] Yeah. Yes.
John Dehlin [00:56:51] And that's interesting because modern society would say polygamy bad, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a joyful family experience until Warren Jeffs kind of ruined it, is what I'm hearing from you.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:57:08] Yeah, I think, you know, I,
Margi Dehlin [00:57:12] I
Ceci Hendrickson [00:57:12] think that my mom's the two that were making that childhood experience for us. I mean, it really is them doing it.
Margi Dehlin [00:57:19] Yep.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:57:20] Wanted to do the best they could and I think they did a very good job at that. I think that's partly why my sisters and I are so close, was because of the workings of those two. Honestly, they're not. You know, my mom is now out, but her sister is not. But, but that still hasn't changed. Like the dynamic of all of us as sisters, even not being from the same mom. I think it is the workings of them because they really did try to give us the best they could.
Margi Dehlin [00:57:51] I just wanna say. I just wanna say, you know, creating beauty and love in a situation that's very difficult. I'm thinking about your moms right here. And then I just don't wanna say it was joyful or assign things to it. The experience. This is incredibly complicated. A reality they didn't totally consciously choose.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:58:17] No.
Margi Dehlin [00:58:17] They're working within a system that is very labor intensive for them and their bodies just taking how many children they had and I don't feel comfortable the way you're talking about it with regard to happy or joyful, I think what, what is relevant here to your story as a child growing up, how it felt for you.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:58:45] Right, I agree with that. You know. Yeah, it was, it was. We definitely had a peaceful, you know, pretty okay, joyful, I guess, if you will, childhood. But like from my, you know, looking at my moms, like, I, I just deeply respect them for just doing all that. Like, you know, it's wild. They all, Both of them had. Had 12 children, both of them ended up having that many children. So it's. Yes. The labor part of it is just so incredibly intense.
Margi Dehlin [00:59:19] Yeah. Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:59:20] Yeah. Well, thank you for that, Margi. And I wasn't trying to speak for her mom's more just from a child perspective. Whether a child in a polygamous family would. Would or not reflect back on their childhood as being happy.
Margi Dehlin [00:59:36] Yeah, yeah.
John Dehlin [00:59:37] And you're saying you do reflect on your childhood, pre war and Jeffs.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:59:41] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:59:41] As being relatively happy. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [00:59:44] And you know, within the FLDS during that Time. Most children will say that. Like, it was. It was all right. Like, I, you know, we had some good memories. And that's not to say that there wasn't things tucked in there where I'm like, why did that happen? You know, why did dad react that way? He wasn't.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:00:03] Even though he might have been kind to me, he wasn't always that kind to all of my siblings. You know, there's plenty of times where I remember him getting, you know, so upset and losing it on some of my brothers or whatever. And so, like, there's definitely pieces in there where you're like, it's really just falls on the moms to make it the way they did, you know? But then at the same time, I'm like, the pressure was. Was definitely being put on the fathers. Like, raise your children a certain way. Do this, you know. And I know that pressure came through in those moments where someone would do something that wasn't falling in line, and my dad would react instead of, you know, he'd react frustrated instead of through love.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:00:46] And then you would have, you know, that kind of situation where abuse showed its ugly head or whatever that case may be. And so it. Like, even though those were random or maybe a few between. It's not the focal point of my childhood, but they were still there. Let's just say that.
Religious Instruction and Daily Life in the FLDS
John Dehlin [01:01:08] Okay, what do you remember about religious instruction, doctrine, church observance as a FLDS kid in terms of how the church became. How the family became indoctrinated by the church?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:01:27] Maybe it's. I always compare it to. It's kind of a slow burn, you know, at first it's just reading the Book of Mormon and little pieces out of the Bible. It's really that simple. And that's what we did up until Warren Jeffs became the prophet. And then it was like the doctrine wasn't as much about those things. It was about the new Revelations and the new. I don't even know the word. The new sermons and everything that were being put out were being put out by Rillin Jeffs and Warren.
John Dehlin [01:02:09] Would y' all have gone to church every Sunday?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:02:11] Yes, we would go to church every Sunday. And it got to where they were doing Monday morning meetings and Saturday morning meetings on top of that. So you would go Saturday morning, and then you would go Sunday, and then you would go Monday morning.
John Dehlin [01:02:24] How many hours on Sunday?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:02:26] On Sunday, it got to where church was a good six hours.
Margi Dehlin [01:02:30] What?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:02:30] Yes, six hours it was.
John Dehlin [01:02:32] What are you doing for us?
Margi Dehlin [01:02:33] What are we doing?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:02:35] If you've Ever. If you ever want to know, you can Google his revelations. They are so very many pages long. And he repeats himself, like dozens of times.
Margi Dehlin [01:02:53] Okay, can I just be clear? So the six hours, the Saturday, the Sunday, six hours, the Monday. Is this the extreme version? This isn't. You're growing up as a child.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:03:03] No, this is the extreme version.
Margi Dehlin [01:03:05] This is when you're 11 through 13.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:03:07] So the child childhood version, it was simple. Go to church on Sunday for an hour or two.
John Dehlin [01:03:11] And then was there soccer meeting, Was there bread and water? Was there primary where you would sing with the kids?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:03:18] Okay. No, they never really did. Sunday school was Sunday school with your family. So on Sunday you would do a little Sunday school, 10am at home.
John Dehlin [01:03:28] home with your family, where you learn stuff like that?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:03:30] Yeah, little songs, little home, church. It was cute. Yeah, it was a cute time. Like you. It wasn't wild, intense. Not really. Like, we would learn a little song. We're gonna sing this on Sunday. Certain people were assigned what they would call, you're gonna do a part on Sunday. And so you would prep for it, the. For the week coming, and you would practice with your little group, or if it was a solo thing, like whatever the case was, you prepped for it and it was fun. Like, it was something we all looked forward to. But then we would go to church, I want to say, around 2 o',
John Dehlin [01:04:03] clock, and there's a chapel.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:04:05] Yes. They had what they called the meeting house. And you'd go to church, like I said, for an hour or two. It wasn't. It was simple. This was the time when they would, you know, read the Book of Mormon. Whoever was speaking would indulge and, you know, talk about it a little more, explain certain verses, whatever. It was simple. And it was a lot easier to believe it because it was so simple. And it was pulled right out of the book. Right. It wasn't until later, when everything was getting so construed.
John Dehlin [01:04:37] Were there wards and, like, congregations or was it just every. It was like a mega church.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:04:42] Yeah. There was no. So within the flds. I know this is where it's different from the Mormons and the FLDS is there's not words, there's not. It's not organized like that. It's a big church. You do Sunday school with your family every, I think once a month, they would do what they call priesthood meeting, where the men would go in Sunday morning and do priesthood meeting. And then we wouldn't have Sunday school on that Sunday and the men would just go and do that. And then we would have. During that time, while the men were in their priesthood meeting, the family would prepare brunch and then we'd eat together and then we'd go to church. So that was kind of the layout, I guess, of how.
John Dehlin [01:05:27] So when you were at the meeting house on Sunday, everyone all together, was it sermons? Were there hymns?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:05:34] Yeah, there was singing, there was reading from the Book of Mormon. There was, you know, whoever. They also had assigned speakers. So it was like, okay, we're gonna call in president, so and so.
John Dehlin [01:05:49] Or mostly men.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:05:50] Elder. Yeah. Yes, almost always men. I remember a few times it being women, but it was usually when they needed. This is what I remember now, looking back at it. When they needed a specific message delivered and they knew it would come across better if a woman delivered it, then they would have a woman. Like it was very specific, like, this is what you're talking about. Then they would call on a woman.
John Dehlin [01:06:15] Otherwise, men would speak.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:06:17] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:06:17] And would the prophet speak every Sunday
Ceci Hendrickson [01:06:20] if he was there? Yes. If he was. Was at a different, you know, like if he went to Canada that weekend or, you know, was up here in Salt Lake or whatever, then. Then the leading, like the bishop or the leading presidents would take charge at that meeting. But if the prophet was in, you know, that area. Yes, he would, he would lead the service.
John Dehlin [01:06:41] Okay. Yeah, okay, got it.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:06:43] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:06:43] But hymns. He had a hymn book and all that. Okay, okay, okay. So did you grow up praying and you probably didn't have family evening growing up or things like that?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:06:56] Yes, we did. We had prayer every evening with the family. It started to change to where they did morning and evening prayer, which was fine. It wasn't until later then they started to add in prayer every hour and just envision trying to settle in 27 children very quickly. So you can pray every hour.
John Dehlin [01:07:22] Whoa.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:23] Like you spend 10 minutes trying to get everyone settled and you say the prayer and whoever was praying sometimes would get carried away. And you're 20 minutes in and then prayers in 40 minutes.
Margi Dehlin [01:07:35] Honestly, that's like, uh huh. That's a day.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:39] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:07:40] Is that Warren Jeffs?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:41] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:07:41] Who said hourly family prayer?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:44] Yes. So.
John Dehlin [01:07:45] Wow, I'd never heard of that.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:47] Do you have any other questions about, like before I was 13? Because once we get into.
John Dehlin [01:07:52] No. No.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:53] Okay.
John Dehlin [01:07:53] I mean, well, did y' all do patriarchal blessings? I'm just curious about that.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:07:58] Yes, there was a time when those were being ministered. I guess that was before my time. So my parents all had one.
John Dehlin [01:08:07] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:08:07] But I never got. Got one.
John Dehlin [01:08:09] And then I Guess the only other question I have about pre war and Jeffs is clearly you're cut off from the rest of society. So in terms of, like, tv, movies, media, video games, smartphones, but also just realizing that there's a whole big. It's almost like you're in Pleasantville or the Truman show, like, you're living in this totally manufactured, contrived, controlled community, not really even having access to the outside world.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:08:40] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:08:40] What was that like?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:08:42] So even down to your homeschool curriculum was created within the flds. So everything you learned from your education to what you read, what you consumed in every way, had to be developed, created, and published by the flds. And so, to even protect or guard you even more, it was like, okay, no Internet, no tv, no any kind of outside influence. You couldn't even go into town, like St. George, which is close by, without a man being there, making sure that you didn't look the wrong way or indulge in anything that would corrupt your belief. It was very cut off.
John Dehlin [01:09:36] Radio. What about radio?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:09:38] You know, they did have a small radio station. See, this is one of those times, like, we had a small radio station, and for about six months, I did. I hosted a kid's radio show, one hour every week.
Margi Dehlin [01:09:50] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:09:51] Like, stuff like that is where I'm like, how did I get away with that? It must have been before everything changed, you know, it definitely was. I was very young, but, like, listening
John Dehlin [01:10:02] to Britney Spears on the radio.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:10:04] No, it was very. Then again, like, yes, even though I hosted the radio show, it was with content that was. Yes. It wasn't. It wasn't exactly like, priesthood music or. Yeah, at that time, it was music that they selected. That was. Yeah, more on the mellow side. It was still fun and, like, for kids, but it was selected by them. And I even remember watching movies a few times as a little kid.
John Dehlin [01:10:33] What types of movies?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:10:35] I want to say like Winnie the Pooh, Little Women. I'm trying to think of a few of the other.
John Dehlin [01:10:41] Just Disney kind of Disney movies, kind
Ceci Hendrickson [01:10:44] of Disney up until, I want to say, five or six. So these are, like, very early memories. And then I had an uncle who continue to let his family do that. And even though my dad was like, no, more we get rid of the tv or we didn't really get rid of it. We just put it down in the cellar and only pull it out to watch, like, family videos that were on the beaches. Yes. And so that was kind of the end of that era for our family. But every time we'd Go over to my uncle's house, we would sneak and watch whatever he had in his collection. But if my dad ever found out, it was like, hey, you're not going over there for however many months.
Margi Dehlin [01:11:24] That kind of leads to my question, and that is in your community, I'm getting a sense for all of this community culture and support for your way of life. Right. And anything outside it. Danger.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:11:39] Yes.
Margi Dehlin [01:11:39] Right. So within your community and your experience of the community, was there variability? Did you see people living it a little bit differently? Was that something you noted in your kind of growing up of like, oh, wait, we're a stricter version than the. So that did exist.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:11:59] Yes, that did exist very much. Because here's the thing. If a man, the more strict a man was with his family, and the more he made them follow the rules, do all the things that the priesthood required him, he could climb the ladder of his priesthood as well. Like, they would favor him above others. So.
Margi Dehlin [01:12:20] So more strict, more good.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:12:22] Yes, yes. So when there was other families who did allow certain things, like they would allow their children to dress a little more worldly, I guess you can say that's what they called it there. Or they would let them watch movies longer, or they would go. Stay a night at a hotel somewhere and go into the swimming pools. Just all the things that were, like, taboo. Those families were looked at as not as good.
Margi Dehlin [01:12:51] Got it.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:12:52] Like, it got to the point where, you know, with our family, dad would be like, we don't hang out with that family. They're on. They're on the edge. They're not being as faithful, or we should be aware of them. You know, I had cousins and their parents that were doing things a little more lenient. And I remember dad very specifically being like, we don't really need to go over there and hang out. Like, we need to stay focused on our family here. And that was his way of trying to get us to fall in line. You know, he was trying to fall in line, too, and do all the things just right, which, I mean, did benefit him later on. As far as finding favor with Warren, it did give him a position within the church that a lot of men wanted.
Margi Dehlin [01:13:36] Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:13:37] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [01:13:38] Okay. Okay. I have a quick question about the transition time. You know, this time that you talk about it all changing.
Warren Jeffs Takes Power and Tightens Control
Ceci Hendrickson [01:13:48] Yes.
Margi Dehlin [01:13:48] I'm curious because I feel like the way you've described it is. I just want to make sure I'm getting it right.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:13:54] Okay.
Margi Dehlin [01:13:55] So when Warren Jeffs kind of takes over and you experience this, let's just say More intense, more extreme version of, I would say, like, the religion, the lived experience of the religion. Was it all of a sudden, like, was it sort of like he. He takes over and then bam. It's. It's something where. Because that would be so confusing.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:14:22] It kind of was, to be honest. Like, I. I don't remember the exact timeline. It gets kind of overlaps a little, but. So Rulin Jeffs dies. Warren, Jess becomes the prophet shortly after, he starts sending men away that aren't falling in line, and he starts moving families around into homes. Like, okay, we're going to move you here. Everyone was. It wasn't just confusion because Warren became the prophet. It was confusion in every way. What you felt was normal was not normal ever again. We moved out of our childhood home into a different home within months, and dad started taking care of another family. So he. Like, there was so much change so fast within just a few months that was.
John Dehlin [01:15:16] He assigned another wife.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:15:18] No.
John Dehlin [01:15:18] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:15:19] It was just like, I think his dad passed away during that time. So he was given, like, responsibility of his two moms and their children that were at home. Like, it was.
Margi Dehlin [01:15:30] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:15:31] So. And this happened, like, after Warren took over. This happened all the time. Like, it was like a fruit basket. Upset of the community. Everybody.
Margi Dehlin [01:15:41] Yes.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:15:42] Everybody moving everywhere. This person being sent away. And so if a man was sent away, someone had to look after this family, even if they didn't marry them. Right. So they would put another man. Like, maybe they didn't go live within the household, but every day they had to go over there, check on them, make sure that they had their family classes had. You know, like, there was so much chaos after that point that the entire community was never the same.
John Dehlin [01:16:08] Why was Warren sending men away from your understanding? These were men who had wives and kids.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:16:15] Yes. And they were men in influence. So I'm talking people. These were men that stood on the stand and preached the gospel. At some point, he stood up very shortly after he became the prophet, and he said, I'm going to list off names. If you're listed, walk out of church right now. And he got up there and he read off a list of men's names, and there was men getting up and walking out, knowing they're being sent away. Their families are sobbing right there in public. It's a very public. He made a very public example out of them.
John Dehlin [01:16:49] Were you at those meetings?
Margi Dehlin [01:16:50] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:16:50] You were at the meetings where Warren Jeffs would name names and ask men to get up and leave their families forever?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:16:56] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:16:57] And the men would get up and leave. And you would hear
Ceci Hendrickson [01:17:01] or just be, like, in shock. Like, everyone's just sitting there, like, what is happening? But he did this because he knew if he made a huge public example about all these leading men that people loved and respected, everyone else would fall in line, like, oh.
John Dehlin [01:17:17] Or that would happen to them.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:17:19] Yeah, I don't want to lose my family. And that was when the big. It was just a huge change because everyone was. It wasn't fun anymore. The fun, the joy, anything that you ever felt about that was not there anymore.
Margi Dehlin [01:17:32] Interesting.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:17:33] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:17:36] Wow. So it became like a reign of terror, basically. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:17:39] And everyone. It was fearful. Like, that's when I remember really, like, being afraid that our family would be broken up. Like, I remember thinking, I wonder if my dad's ever done anything that would make them send him away. Like, you know, and then we carried on like that where they had done this big disruption.
John Dehlin [01:18:03] And he, like, so remind us. He got rid of dolls. He got rid of what, like, any kind of. The big changes.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:18:09] Yes. Any kind of pleasure in any way. You couldn't go camping, fishing, took away bikes, dolls, any kind of toy that was distracting from the plan that he had.
John Dehlin [01:18:23] Weren't certain colors of clothes forbidden?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:18:25] Yes. Yes. Red was banned. You couldn't wear any kind of red. And his. His explanation for that was that when Jesus comes back, he's going to be wearing a red robe, and we need to preserve that color for him. So we didn't wear red. And that's when, you know, it was around that time that they just. It was like, it went from being a normal child or a normal family as best you could to all these restrictions. There was, you know, certain. You had to call your father. Father. Your mother, mother. No. Red. No. There were certain foods that were banned. No chocolate. No. Coffee. No.
Margi Dehlin [01:19:14] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:19:15] I'm trying to think. There are so many. Literally everything. Yeah. Yes. Refined sugars. Like, there was. And it wasn't like he got up in meeting and gay just listed off a bunch of things. It was like. Well, he did, but it was like, okay, one Sunday it was one thing, the next Sunday it was more things. And that's what I mean by a slow burn. Because it was like the people were already kind of tricked into believing all this and thinking, well, we need to fall in line. So he would just add little things to it slowly to where pretty soon you're going. Wait, I. I literally don't even know what I'm doing. Like, you almost had to refer back to the. The revelation and be like, is this, is this right? Like, there's just so many rules.
Margi Dehlin [01:20:06] Yeah, so many rules. So it sounds like both. It was an abrupt change, a lot of changes abruptly. And also a slow burn, a slow burn of, like, the little pleasures at a time where eventually you get to a place where, you know, it's a very stark, controlled existence, would you say? Okay, so can I get back to your story for a minute?
John Dehlin [01:20:32] Sure.
Margi Dehlin [01:20:32] So, 11 to 13, you were saying how you had a rebellious, like, moment, and you were talking about how you, you know, how you defined that was going out sometimes. Was it late at night?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:20:48] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [01:20:49] And enjoying having experiences where you were enjoying the attention of boys.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:20:56] Right, right.
Margi Dehlin [01:20:58] Okay, so my question is, like, was this your attempt at pleasure? Was this your attempt of normalcy to, like, hang on to something that felt human to you and relatable and like, you wanted it?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:21:16] Yeah, totally. It totally was. Because I remember thinking, well, if everything I do in my father's home is so regulated and, like, you can't do this, this, this, and this. And even the way, like, the look on your face was like, are you being, you know, I feel you're being disobedient or, like, everything was just on high alert. That was my way of trying to just experience life a little bit without losing everything.
Margi Dehlin [01:21:45] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:21:46] And so I did carry it on as long as I could until, you know, my dad found out, and then it was an abrupt stop. But, yes, to answer your question, that was definitely in my, my attempt in just holding on to some kind of, like, experience.
Margi Dehlin [01:22:00] That's right. That makes sense, because at that point,
John Dehlin [01:22:02] your dad doesn't want you to be sent away or your family to be broken up.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:22:07] Yes. And also, too, if he would, like, if I was to continue in that, and my dad knew I was continuing in that, and the prophet found out, my dad knew it was would he would be on the chopping block. That's like, so the, the intensity was put on the fathers and then the fathers into their families. And yeah, on and on you go.
Margi Dehlin [01:22:28] Like, that would reflect on him.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:22:30] Yeah, a lot. I, I, I have this conversation with my sister pretty frequently, my older sister and her. And I feel a lot like we were also trying to give our parents the best that we could because we knew what could happen to them if we didn't. Like, it really did fall on the older kids quite a bit too, where we're like, well, I guess even though we don't want to do this, we'll do it because we don't want dad
Margi Dehlin [01:22:55] to suffer you're trying to take care of your parent. You're trying to protect your parent 100%. Yeah, it's a lot.
John Dehlin [01:23:07] I'm just processing. Switching back to traditional LDS Church. One of the things that liberal Mormons or even ex Mormons will criticize the modern LDS Church for, they'll say, when have the prophets ever, you know, after Joseph Smith or maybe Brigham Young ever really had a revelation? They really haven't changed the scriptures since Joseph Smith. They haven't added to the Doctrine and Covenants other than to take things away. And prophets, what are they? What prophecies? How are they being seers? Where are their revelations? Says Joseph Smith. It's meant as a criticism, but I can see potentially the fear and. Or the wisdom in unleashing a prophet to start creating new revelations and new changes.
John Dehlin [01:23:59] Because what your story and the Warren Jeff story represents, it sounds like, you know, it wasn't all gumdrops and lollipops prior to Warren Jeffs. It sounds like polygamy was obviously very burdensome for women and a serious patriarchal problem.
John Dehlin [01:24:19] But it also sounds relatively benign compared to what it became under Warren Jeffs. But what Warren Jeffs represents to me is the risk to. Of having prophets actually start prophesying and creating revelation.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:24:36] I agree with you 1000%, because honestly, I would, you know, I would much rather believe in something that I know is not going to change. It's steadfast, you know, what's expected of you. You know what. You know what I mean? And so when you have the Book of Mormon, which was what they based it off of in the beginning and for many, many decades, like a very long time, that was what they followed. But then you have Warren Jeffs, who all of a sudden almost disregards that book entirely.
Margi Dehlin [01:25:12] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:25:12] He goes rogue a little. Yeah. And then he starts to make up or get. He. He says it's revelation, but he's making something up. And it starts to come out and everyone's falling into line because they are like, this is the prophet of God. We have to believe what he says. We've believed in him this long, whatever. And all of a sudden you're asking yourself, what do I actually believe in? What am I actually believing in right now? It's not what I grew up believing in.
Margi Dehlin [01:25:45] Yeah, yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:25:47] Like, where does it all tie back? You know, I remember even thinking at some point, like, where is God in all of this? He says it's from God, but he's made himself the focal point. He's the one that's Important here he would use a phrase. God and the prophet always do. Right. So he would like categorize himself as a God.
Margi Dehlin [01:26:10] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:26:11] And so that's where people would be like, well, we can't question him then because he's doing God's work, even though he's changed the entire scriptures that we're following at this point. And that, that is a huge, that's a huge risk that comes from a modern revelation. Especially if you're so hell bent on following this person. Like anything they say goes right. When do we start asking questions?
John Dehlin [01:26:38] Yeah. I often say that any person claiming that they speak to God and that they get to tell other people what God wants is just way too much. It's way too much power. And if you look at Joseph Smith's life and Brigham Young's, lots of problems came from that model. And so I can see why the mainstream LDS church settled into sticking with what was taught early and then making small changes just to keep the culture updated. Enough with society. Don't abandon the past because everyone will leave. But do make changes so that you don't get destroyed or made obsolete. But be very conservative in change because the alternative is havoc.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:27:30] Yeah. It's not a long term plan. At some point someone's going to see, this is not what I signed up for. This is not what I grew up believing. And I think that's where the break off is coming from now, from the flds, you know, as people are starting to wake up to it.
John Dehlin [01:27:52] Yeah. Well, we'll get there. Okay. So you, your dad clamped down on you. By the time you're 14, you're getting back in line.
Being Assigned a Husband as a Teenager
Ceci Hendrickson [01:28:01] Yep. I was, I could have gotten married at 14. I was that, like, devout in my, my journey, my mission. I was like, hey, I'm going to be a wife. I don't want to lose connection with my family. I don't want to be cut off from my mom. Like, that was devastating to eat.
Margi Dehlin [01:28:16] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:28:16] That's a big thing of like. Yeah. She was, I was, you know, fairly close with her and my sisters and, you know, I didn't want that to happen to me. So I fell in line, became just, I guess you can say a good girl. I shut myself down. I didn't ever cause chaos. I didn't ask questions. I just.
Margi Dehlin [01:28:38] So would you say subservient and obedient and just that part of yourself that had emerged earlier, you're like tucking her
Ceci Hendrickson [01:28:46] away, hid her clear deep down. I did not even pay attention to that part of me for a Very long time. And I carried on like that for a couple of years.
John Dehlin [01:28:57] During this time, there's a story that Warren Jeffs used to keep the words keep sweet on his shoes. One shoe said keep at the bottom, the other said sweet. And you put them up on the desk to show a woman that she needed to know her place. Is that term keep sweet something you would have heard growing up?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:29:18] Oh, 100%.
John Dehlin [01:29:19] What did it mean and how did you hear it?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:29:21] Yeah, so, like, let's say, I mean, literally all the time. It was one of those things you would hear multiple times a day throughout your day. It was voiced during class time where they would, you know, do the lesson and then the end with, hey, keep sweet. Let's keep sweet today.
John Dehlin [01:29:43] Would they say that to boys and girls?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:29:45] I know.
Margi Dehlin [01:29:45] It was just women.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:29:46] Nope. It was to everyone.
Margi Dehlin [01:29:48] Keep sweet.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:29:49] Yeah, keep. Let's keep sweet today. You know, when I say everyone, it was all of us kids. We were, you know, there was boys, girls, everyone there. It was my father saying it. And, you know, if there was a little squabble between children or whatever throughout the day, it'd be like, are we keeping sweet in here? Like, it was. It was very much used to just keep everybody going the same direction. Like, nobody upset, nobody sad. No. You know, that was just. It was a very common phrase to really keep the peace, I want to say. And it started to become more and more almost like, shut down. If you brought something to, you know, your priesthood head's attention or whatever, it was like, well, are you coming from a place of keeping sweet, or are you, you know, Meaning don't question authority. Yes.
John Dehlin [01:30:42] Do what we say. Don't question.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:30:45] It became more and more like, your voice doesn't matter. Just keep sweet type, you know, Gonna be quiet. Yes. Yeah. Like, you. You don't need to question this. Just keep sweet. Go say your prayers. Like that. That kind of all the same thing.
Margi Dehlin [01:31:01] Sort of like, be palatable for us. Be as palatable as possible. Be as easy as.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:31:08] Yeah, but fall in line.
Margi Dehlin [01:31:09] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:31:10] Do not disrupt the system. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And so, yeah, that was definitely something growing up. And I, you know, so this was, you know, I'm. We're at. When I was, like, 14, 15, where I was definitely. I was just. I was kind of a mother in my father's home at this point. I carried huge responsibilities. I mean, lots of babies and just carrying the family load just as a mom would. Even taking care of mothers in their pregnancies and staying with them after they had babies and just.
John Dehlin [01:31:48] Did y' all use hospitals?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:31:49] Yeah, there was. It's not a hospital, but it's a birthing center in Hildale that all moms would go have their babies at unless there was complications and they had to go to the hospital. Then they would transport them from the hospital to the birthing center to stay for a few days. And I remember going up there and helping my mothers a few times during that.
Margi Dehlin [01:32:10] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:32:10] During that phase of their, you know, postpartum journey. And so I was very much just involved as almost. I had adult responsibilities as a 15 year old.
Margi Dehlin [01:32:23] Caretaking. A lot of caretaking and a lot of responsibility.
John Dehlin [01:32:27] And the third wife was introduced before, during or after this point. When you're 14? 15.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:32:32] Definitely before. So she came along when I was talking about that.
John Dehlin [01:32:35] How did your dad find the first.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:32:37] Oh, yeah.
John Dehlin [01:32:38] And was it him or was it assigned?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:32:40] It was definitely assigned.
John Dehlin [01:32:41] What was that like?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:32:42] Okay, so we had the two wives or my dad had the two wives. We were carrying on as, you know, this family unit the way we were for many years.
John Dehlin [01:32:52] Like over a decade.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:32:53] Yeah, yeah, it was. I was 11, so it was a decade. And there was this girl that worked with my dad at this time. My dad had transitioned jobs. So he wasn't working at the hardware store anymore. He was actually a manager at. At a production plant where they. Do you know what Snugs USA is? It's here in Salt Lake. They. They create like duffel bags and lanyards and things that help people advertise their business.
John Dehlin [01:33:27] Like Swag.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:33:28] Swag, yes. So that was what the business was down there in Colorado City. My dad was a big floor manager, so he knew everyone that worked on the floor.
John Dehlin [01:33:39] Snugs.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:33:40] Yes, Snugs was the name of it.
John Dehlin [01:33:42] And there was probably put logos on merchandise.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:33:47] Yes. It was a big production. They had so many different products that they would push out. So they had little departments and they would. Teenagers would usually work these departments and make it all run, but they would make the money and turn it into the priesthood. So this wasn't like, go get yourself a cute little job, keep the money. You're a teenager with some money to spend for whatever you want. Like, no, this was you going to work making a paycheck and turning it into the FLDS leaders so that they could disperse it and use it however they felt fit.
John Dehlin [01:34:20] Who owned Snugs?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:34:21] It wasn't Allred.
John Dehlin [01:34:23] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:34:23] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:34:24] So someone hyping the church owned it, but it was really just an arm of the church.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:34:29] Yes. And they Ran a lot of businesses there like that.
Margi Dehlin [01:34:33] This is reminding me a little of the Kingston Group.
John Dehlin [01:34:35] Yeah, the construction. Construction would have been a big business, right?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:34:38] Yes. Oh my gosh, 100%. And all the men, young boys, 12 year olds even, would go work on these great big, you know, construction job sites, make tons of money. My brothers can attest to this, like, where they're like, we made so much money. If we had kept that and turned it into real estate, we'd be millionaires by now. Like, that's how much money was turning over. And they were just taking every paycheck, like all of it, and just, wow, nothing at all.
John Dehlin [01:35:03] And this is. I mean, Joseph Smith taught the law of consecration where for at least a time, all things would be held in common. So this is just the FLDS church implementing the law of consecration that Joseph started. Yeah, like, Joseph tried it, it failed. He stopped it. But it was by that point, it was in the Doctrine and Covenants. So that would be something the FLDS
Margi Dehlin [01:35:27] would re resurrect and it stayed as part of the temple ceremony as well. Right.
John Dehlin [01:35:35] You would covenant. The law of consecration. But we're not talking about.
Margi Dehlin [01:35:41] They didn't have a principle.
John Dehlin [01:35:42] It became the law of tithing. Not where all the money you made, you would give to people.
Margi Dehlin [01:35:47] Exactly. But the principle. But you actually lived. Lived the principle itself of consecration, where
John Dehlin [01:35:55] the men were just working and giving all their money back to the church and the children. Child labor was being exploited for the
Ceci Hendrickson [01:36:02] wealth of the church 100%. Like, I mean, women and children. Yes. Everyone was working overtime to turn in whatever their earnings, their job, like, whatever the labor was, was turned back in to the church for them to disperse how they see fit. And unfortunately, like a lot of times, it was the leaders, families that benefited the most from that because they're just like, it's theirs. They can do whatever they want with it. You know, that's how it was in
John Dehlin [01:36:34] Kirtland, Ohio, in Missouri, and eventually Nauvoo, Illinois. Joseph was in charge and he would collect the money and the real estate and the power, and he and his family would get the cream.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:36:47] Right.
Margi Dehlin [01:36:48] Did you see that? Was that something you.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:36:50] We all knew it because they would drive new vehicles while other families went without a vehicle. Or they, they just always looked more. I don't know if you. You can just tell when people are a little more well off than others. And there was definitely the families who seemed a little more in poverty, and then the others that were, they just always were driving new vehicles, always had add ons onto their homes. We're doing this project for this.
Margi Dehlin [01:37:20] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:37:20] Leader or whatever. And their homes were always updated and new and nice and all of these things. And so, yeah, for sure there was. It was noticeable. We knew what was happening, but it's not something. Again, what can. What can you do? Go throw. Go throw a fit at them and be like, oh, I don't like how you're doing this. And then they're like, hey, you're good. Yeah. Either keep sweet or get out.
Margi Dehlin [01:37:41] Sweet moment. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:37:42] Yeah. So.
Margi Dehlin [01:37:43] So were you saying that your dad worked with Snugs with his third.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:37:48] Yes. Before they were placed. So it wasn't an arrangement. I don't think he went and like, asked for this girl. And it's hard for me sometimes to think about this. She was 17 years old. Okay. There was definitely sightings of the two of them, like in his office talking to each other, which was one of those things that's just so frowned upon. You don't go talk to the opposite sex ever. Like, you just don't. And so when they would do that, people were like, what's going on? But it was. It kind of carried on like this for, you know, six months or so. And then the prophet at the time, which was Warren, I believe.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:38:27] Wait, actually, it was Rulon. Yeah, Rulon was the prophet at this time. He married them together. And like, so I don't think he asked for it, but there was definitely something there before. So when he did place them, it was.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:38:44] It was very easy for my dad to just accept this woman. He already knew her, you know, it was much harder for my mom and her sister to be as accepting because they're like, yeah, we've already established our family this far without this.
Margi Dehlin [01:39:01] Yeah, makes sense.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:39:03] And then she comes in and she's literally only a year or two older than my sister. And it's just.
Margi Dehlin [01:39:09] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:39:10] So she was older than the oldest child.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:39:12] Yes, by a year.
Margi Dehlin [01:39:14] Not much. Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:39:17] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:39:17] Yeah. So.
John Dehlin [01:39:18] And do you remember how your mom and your mom's sister, your other mom felt.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:39:25] Oh, man. They tried.
John Dehlin [01:39:26] They have been able to talk about it.
Margi Dehlin [01:39:28] They.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:39:28] Oh, yeah, we've talked about it since. I'll say that.
John Dehlin [01:39:31] But at the time, what was it like?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:39:33] Oh, they buried a lot of it. You could tell there was lots of tension. This woman was very different from my mom and her sister. My mom and her sister are a little more. They just want to collab. They just collaborate with each other. You know, they work it out. And this lady was not like, that she came from a very abusive family and that abuse trickled in. So now it wasn't just those one off times of my dad being off the wall. It was a daily occurrence of her being abusive, like yelling or slapping people, whipping people with belts, like, you name it, she never did it to me. But I had lots of, I have lots of brothers and it was definitely taken out on them a lot.
Margi Dehlin [01:40:29] Okay, so you're now, through the introduction of her, you are now having chaos in your community, larger world and in your inner space, your bubble of your family.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:40:45] Yes. And then at this point, my sister and I for sure became like, oh my gosh, we have to protect our siblings from her. We have to protect the, our siblings from our dad when he acts out. Like it became much more so. The intensity was coming from multiple directions. It was coming from the church side of it. Like you have to, you know, be a certain way, do things a certain way or you have the risk of losing your family. But then within the family it was like, do we stand up to her and then get in trouble by dad for doing that because
Ceci Hendrickson [01:41:21] we're supposed to be respecting her or you know how like there was so much pressure to be a protector, which it's crazy because I still carry that like where I'm like always I gotta protect everyone. Like, and it's just, it was so embretted into us growing up. Like we just.
John Dehlin [01:41:39] Yeah, it, it's. If I'm, and I'm not trying to make excuses for her, the third wife, but it's an impossible situation to be put in 100%. If there's this family with over 20 kids, only two moms, and then several almost adult children who have been functional moms for many years, there's this whole power structure and social order within the family that then if this 18 year old or 17 year old comes in and is supposed to be on the status of a wife or a mom, has never even had a kid before, doesn't know know even how to be a functional adult. Her brain's not even fully formed yet, and yet she's stepping in with functional teenage children who are peers.
John Dehlin [01:42:32] How is she going to assume the power and status of a wife when these kids are feeling usurped? And who is this woman anyway? And, and she doesn't even know how to discipline or even have relationships with the 20x children. For her, it's an impossible situation.
Margi Dehlin [01:42:54] Well, and it sounds like, I mean, she's 17 and it sounds like she's lived through abuse herself, trauma Herself. So what do you do when you don't process? That is you live it out, repeat the cycle.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:43:06] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:43:06] And to gain power and to just survive.
Margi Dehlin [01:43:09] So what happens? I mean, some women react to extreme situations in control, like your mom and her sister did, and other, you know, personality types of women get angry.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:43:24] Oh, sure.
Margi Dehlin [01:43:24] You know, where does the anger go? It goes right there. So it's a. That there's. Yes. Understanding, compassion makes sense psychologically. And like, just like kids, don't hit your kids.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:43:38] Right.
Margi Dehlin [01:43:39] This is how a system perpetuates the abuse and the. This is how it all goes.
John Dehlin [01:43:46] What were the teachings around spanking or hitting children?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:43:50] Spanking was normal. Like, I mean, you got to discipline your children to keep them, you know, if they were falling out of line, get them back in line, however you do that. But I don't. I don't think abuse was ever, like, encouraged. I don't. But then again, they had priesthood meeting once a month. What did they talk about in those meetings? I don't know. Like, I don't think I've ever asked anyone. You know, I don't think that abuse was encouraged, though. I think that they're not punching your children. Right. I think they tried to teach the men to love your children in obedience because they also.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:44:27] Warren Jeffs was really, really good at doing this. Almost overboard. Sweet and kind. And he would act this way until you do what he wanted, but then when you didn't, it was like he would withdraw his love and punish you that way. And that's kind of how he taught the men to do that. It was a very emotional roller coaster. Manipulative dad was like that. My dad was quite a bit that way. And yeah, you were very manipulated into like, oh, well, if I don't fall in line, then I'm gonna be. I'm displease him. And then he's going to treat me like I don't exist and I don't really want to be treated like that in my own home.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:45:09] That it's not fun either. So to go back to what you were saying about her, though, I 100% agree with you. It was not an easy situation. I can't imagine it was a lot. She probably had no idea how to even navigate what she was put into.
John Dehlin [01:45:28] But she became abusive.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:45:30] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:45:30] And you felt like you had to try and protect your siblings without upsetting
Ceci Hendrickson [01:45:35] your dad, which, I mean, that was pretty much impossible. That was around the time where I pretty much came to the terms with, I'm going to do what I can to protect them. And I know it might upset dad, which is unfortunate because then it might push me further away from becoming a wife myself. And it was difficult, you know, there was that fear of like, well, if I overstep my boundaries in this area, then I'll be unworthy of the blessings that I desire, which is to be someone's wife and move forward. Around this time was when I really wanted to just get married. I wanted to get married. I wanted to get out of my dad's home. Yeah. And that's kind of, that's about when it happened, really. When I was placed into someone's home was around that time.
John Dehlin [01:46:26] So talk about how that happened to you. You're a normal 14, 15, 16 year old kid.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:46:32] I was 16 at the time. Right around this same era, within the flds, the YFZ ranch in Texas was being built, but we did not know about it. So the fathers would disappear in the night and be gone for sometimes weeks, months at a time.
John Dehlin [01:46:55] And asked to go work on the Texas temple.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:46:58] Yes. But we did not know where they were going. We were just told, I've been called on a mission by the Prophet. I'm gonna. Sometimes they wouldn't even say that much. It was like we would see them packing their bags and putting them in a vehicle and they would leave. And sometimes we were like, are they being sent away or are they being called on a mission? Like there was so much like unknown and uncertainty and we would just have to accept it. And then a few weeks later we'd get a phone call, I'm on a mission.
John Dehlin [01:47:24] And by the way, I just have to say, that practice of sending fathers with multiple wives and children away on missions, that starts with Joseph Smith. He did that all the time. My great great grandparents, men, grandfathers, went abroad to serve missions, leaving multiple wives with many, many, many children home to fend for themselves.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:47:49] And that's pretty much what we did. Like, we just made it work. He would be gone for months at a time, and then he'd come home and he'd be home for sometimes a week, sometimes a month, and then he would go again for a long period of time. Well, he had done this, I want to say, three or four times. Where he had come and gone, come and gone. And while he was gone, it was a Sunday morning, he calls on the phone and he asks to talk to my mom.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:48:17] And she gets on the phone with him, talks to him for a minute and then says, he wants to talk to you. Which that wasn't normal. My dad didn't really call on the phone to talk to me, really. So I picked up the phone, and he said, someone's going to be there in 10 minutes to take you to get married. And I was like, okay.
John Dehlin [01:48:37] Like, and you're 16?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:48:39] Yeah. At the time, I had imagined getting married so much differently because my sister had gotten married a few years before that, and she was able to plan a little bit. She made herself a wedding dress. Like, we went to the wedding.
John Dehlin [01:48:53] Did she know the guy? Did she date him?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:48:56] No, no. It was definitely a placement marriage. Yeah. She didn't know him, but it was more open. Like, we knew it was happening.
Margi Dehlin [01:49:03] A little more time to prepare.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:06] She had a day or so, like, to prepare. We did all the things, but.
Margi Dehlin [01:49:10] Day? Did you just say a day?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:11] Yes.
Margi Dehlin [01:49:12] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:13] That's a long time.
Margi Dehlin [01:49:15] Made that wedding dress real quick.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:17] Yeah, well, she already had it made, so, you know, she had put together what they call a hope chest and, like, put items in it that would.
Margi Dehlin [01:49:24] I see.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:25] Prepare you for your wedding day. And I did not do any of that. I had literally nothing. So 10 minutes, I'm like, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Go put my shoes on.
The Arranged Marriage Experience
John Dehlin [01:49:38] And were you excited? Was there a part of you that's like, oh, this is what I wanted?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:43] Yes, I was. But then again, I was like, my mom can't come with me, you know, and a guy is gonna pick me up, and it's not my husband. He said, this guy that's picking you up is not the person you're going to marry.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:49:55] So I'm very confused. Like, that was kind of a culture shock in a way, because I'd never ridden in a vehicle with a man other than my father. Just me and a man. So I was like, okay, but this isn't my husband, so why am I riding in this vehicle with this man? Like, that's. So it was a culture shock for me. I go out there and I climb in, and I realized that the guy was actually one of my old school teachers in high school, and he remembered. So he was, like, asking me about my summer, trying to probably make it a little bit less awkward, I don't know.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:50:31] And he takes me to this home and shows me what room I need to wait in. So I go in there, and I. It felt like half a day. I'm sure it was only a few moments, but I was so extremely, like, nervous. Did not know who this person was that I was going to be placed with. I was by myself there Was no one sitting with me?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:50:53] Were you gonna say something? Oh. And then I. They. Someone comes in and gets me, and they're like, hey, Uncle Warren. We called him that back then.
John Dehlin [01:51:02] Meaning the prophet.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:51:03] Yes. Is in like, follow me. I'll take you to where he is. So I walk in there.
John Dehlin [01:51:07] Oh.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:51:08] And he says, you mean, was this
John Dehlin [01:51:11] the first time you had. It's not the first time you met
Ceci Hendrickson [01:51:13] or talked to Warren, Right? He was the principal in school.
Margi Dehlin [01:51:16] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:51:17] So what types of interactions had you had prior to this with Ward?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:51:21] Pretty much just that at the school. And then going through the handshaking line at church a few times where he would not really say much in those situations because he would just go in through the line with everyone.
John Dehlin [01:51:34] So y' all would line up and shake his hand as part of a Sunday ritual?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:51:38] Yeah, Sometimes we would do it, sometimes we wouldn't wait. Like, you had to wait in line for hours. So it would be. It just depended on if dad felt like waiting. We would.
John Dehlin [01:51:49] But you're gonna meet him maybe for the first time, one on one?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:51:53] Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. So I walk in there, and he asks. Asks me, excuse me, do you know who this man is? And he said his name? And I'm not going to disclose his name. And I said. At first, I was like, I don't know if I do. And then it was like, it just, oh, my gosh, yes, I know who he is. And I pictured him and his first wife with their cute little family. They had a few little girls at the time.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:52:22] And I felt excited, but I also felt kind of sad at the same time because all I could think about was his wife, because in my eyes, they were a perfect, cute little family. But I was like, well, all feelings aside, this is what I'm being asked to do, so I have to do it. And then he told the man to come in, and he had us get married right there. Like, it's a spiritual marriage. You're not signing any legal documents or anything like that. You're saying, like, he says a few words, and then you.
Margi Dehlin [01:52:58] He's done.
John Dehlin [01:52:59] Do you kneel in front of him? Are you in temple clothes?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:53:02] Nope. In this situation we were in just every day where we both had only had a few minutes to get ready before.
John Dehlin [01:53:10] And your parents weren't there. There's no community around you.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:53:14] Nope.
John Dehlin [01:53:14] And do you remember the words, Some of the words Warren Jeffs would have said?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:53:18] I really don't. And I was actually thinking of this on my way over here. I was like, I. I Think I blurred that day out. Like, it's just a blur. It happened so fast. It was almost like an out of body experience. Because then again, that's where life abruptly changes. Like, oh, I'm not a little child or kid anymore in my father's home. I am now a wife to a man who also already has one. And he has children.
Margi Dehlin [01:53:46] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:53:47] And there's no wedding dress. There's nothing. There's no food, there's no music. It's just Warren saying, okay, y' all are together.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:53:54] Yep. You're married now.
Margi Dehlin [01:53:55] So sudden. So sudden. And again, it's like you have no say in it. It's like you have no control, no choice.
John Dehlin [01:54:05] And unceremonious.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:54:06] Yes. Right. And after we left, like, he's like, hey, you know, thanks, bye, basically. And we start to walk by, like, we start to unknown.
Margi Dehlin [01:54:19] So unknown.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:54:20] Like, I think both of us were just like, where do we go from here?
Margi Dehlin [01:54:24] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:54:25] You know, because he had had his little family for so many years. I think they were together for 12 years.
John Dehlin [01:54:30] Do you know if he was asking for a new wife?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:54:32] No, I don't think so. And a lot of times if men ask for a new wife, they were not given one. Like, they. It was especially during this time, like, you had to wait till it was your turn to have one. The prophet decided when that was. So, no, he didn't ask. But. So after the marriage or whatever the wedding, we go, we get in the vehicle and we're just both sitting there. Like, where do we go from here? Like, do we go to his family and introduce. Do I get introduced to his wife and his children? Do I go to my. Like, what do we do? So I think we did end up going to his house first. And he introduced me to his wife, who I. I feel so bad for her now. Looking back, like, can you imagine the flood of emotions, like, feeling like, wow, I've just. I've been replaced.
John Dehlin [01:55:30] You were becoming your dad's third wife basically at this point because you were joining a family that was 10 years in progress as a young wife. Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:55:42] Yes, I was his second wife.
John Dehlin [01:55:45] Right. But I mean, it's this idea, it sounds like with you and your. Your mom and your aunt, slash second, that that family got started really early. So it was kind of like your dad and the two wives for a long period of time.
Margi Dehlin [01:55:59] Are you saying kind of a joint, like joining an established.
John Dehlin [01:56:02] Yeah, yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:03] Okay. I'm becoming the third wife that my uncle.
John Dehlin [01:56:06] Young wife that joins an established family.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:09] Yes.
John Dehlin [01:56:10] In that sense, you were Becoming your dad's third wife.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:13] Yeah.
John Dehlin [01:56:13] To that new family.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:14] Okay, I get what you're saying. Yes.
John Dehlin [01:56:16] Is that right?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:16] Yes. 100. That's how it felt too, where I was like, I'm the disruptor here. That's, you know, not the easiest thing. And not easy for her, not easy for me, not easy for the children. Like.
Margi Dehlin [01:56:29] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:29] You know, again, where it's just like this overnight change for everyone.
John Dehlin [01:56:34] So how many kids at that point already?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:36] They had. They had five. Yeah, they had five together. So they had four girls and a
John Dehlin [01:56:42] son in around 10 years. You say they'd been married?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:56:45] They're 12. They'd been together for 12 years. Yeah. So we, you know, I moved in that day. He took me over to my dad's house. I got my stuff, I introduced him to my mom, was like, okay, this is the family I'm going into. She kind of knew him. She knew his wife. They. I think she went to school with his wife's older sister. So he, you know, they kind of knew who they were. And I moved in that day.
John Dehlin [01:57:11] It's in this, I want to ask this delicately. Like, you can't develop, kid. You can't. I can't even imagine. It takes time to develop feelings for somebody like you. You could. You even have feelings for a husband that you were assigned that day.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:57:31] Right. So even when we were together for nine years and even throughout that time, I don't think I ever was in love. And I say that because it's so hard to really genuinely love someone that, you know, is not committed to you fully. Like, you're sharing them and you never know how much of your love is actually being reciprocated. Like, he has to spread his love and feelings across multiple people here. So I don't think I ever felt that safety of like, he accepts me truly for who I am, and I can do the same for him. It was like he accepts me for my performance and my work ethic and my, you know, and so it was. I eventually grew to appreciate him in some way, you know, for lack of better words. But I don't think it was ever like, I love this man. Yeah, yeah.
John Dehlin [01:58:29] What was his job again?
Ceci Hendrickson [01:58:31] So he was a low voltage technician, but more than that. So he was a business owner, a very wealthy one. When I joined his family, he had a beautiful, literally perfect home him and his wife had built together.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:58:52] I lived a luxurious life during my time in his family compared to what I grew up with. Like, he was constantly like new vehicles, kind of like the prophet's family in a sense, I've heard now after being out, like, a lot of people looked up to his family. Like, you guys were just that perfect family. Even though there was multiple wives and everything. It was just.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:59:19] However he did his business, he was able to turn a lot of money into the priesthood while still somehow providing without getting in trouble for it. I don't know how that works exactly, because there were so many other men that were never allowed to do that. So I don't know if he had some kind of. I don't know. I just don't know.
John Dehlin [01:59:38] Well, like, status.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:59:40] Yeah, status. Like, if you turn in so much money, then, yeah, go ahead and do whatever you need to do, you know?
John Dehlin [01:59:46] And for the purpose of etiquette, tell us why you don't want to share. Like, his last name, for example, just so people understand why.
Ceci Hendrickson [01:59:54] Okay. Because I have children who are minors. That's the biggest reason. And even though I'm in the public eye, I've tried to kind of keep my children out of the public eye, unless they want to be. So it's kind of. It's for my children, mostly.
Margi Dehlin [02:00:13] That's right. A little protection, it sounds like. And also where there, like, lack of choice, agency is so key in your story that it seems to me you're taking a lot of care to allow them to have some choice in their lives.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:00:30] When I first started telling my story a few years back, I wasn't as conscientious of this. And I remember when it just hit me like a ton of bricks and I was like, wait, they don't. They didn't ask this for this. I'm choosing to go public. I'm choosing to be known for this. I want them to be able to make that same choice at some point in their life. So in, you know, an effort to do that, I don't. I just haven't really ever said his name. Like, I'm in the process of writing a book and I'll probably have a different name fully in the book.
Margi Dehlin [02:01:06] That makes sense to me. I have a question. So how. What was the integration process like for you in this new home and new environment? How would you describe it?
Life as a Plural Wife
John Dehlin [02:01:18] How did the first wife treat you?
Margi Dehlin [02:01:19] Yeah, how would you describe that process?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:01:23] She was not fond of me.
John Dehlin [02:01:26] Did she just tell you that, or do you just feel it?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:01:28] Oh, it was. She didn't.
Margi Dehlin [02:01:31] Didn't need the words.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:01:33] She would tell him how she felt if I messed up. I mean, she had an established home. She ran it a certain way.
John Dehlin [02:01:39] How old Were the kids, I want
Ceci Hendrickson [02:01:42] to say their oldest was 10 or 11.
John Dehlin [02:01:46] Yeah, 12 years.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:01:48] Yeah. So probably 11. I think their oldest was 11 and then their youngest was like two or something. And so she had an established way of how she liked her home run, which I totally understand that now. I mean, if someone came into my house and started telling me how to run my home, I'd be a little bit upset too. Well, probably quite a bit upset. But she was just so. She wasn't fond of me. She would let him know that she wasn't fond of me. Like, she's just. I was very soft. I'm a very soft hearted person. And she was raised in a very like, just handle it kind of family.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:02:24] So we kind of clashed in that sense. She called me overly emotional and I would be like, well, you're ruthless. So like we just did not ever really see eye to eye in that way. And I mean, we may have, could have if the circumstances were different. Like if we had met and were friends, maybe we could have like, you know, you don't have to be exactly like the people you hang out with. But with the circumstances, I had taken her husband, like that's, that's not going to feel good to anyone.
John Dehlin [02:02:55] Okay, now I have to ask a question. So in. In doctrine and Covenants 132, which is the polygamy revelation, there's this part called the Law of Sarah, which states, and this is according to the revelation Joseph received from God around 1843ish after he had been two or three years into polygamy. Emma was not liking polygamy. Joseph had been hiding it, lying about it, it. And Emma, you know, Emma was not.
John Dehlin [02:03:24] Once she found out Joseph had a bunch of wives, she was basically asking him to stop. And so Hyrum, Joseph's brother, said, Joseph, maybe if you get a revelation. Because somehow he had started and implemented secret polygamy without ever receiving a formal revelation, which is kind of weird. But eventually Emma, to her credit, spoke up, said, I'm not down with this. So Hyrum says to Joseph, joseph, maybe if you come up with a revelation, Emma will fall in line. So Joseph comes up with D&C.132.
Margi Dehlin [02:03:59] I was gonna make a joke. Was it like this? Maybe if you come up with a revelation, Joseph.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:04:07] Yeah, like that. Like that's how he speaks.
John Dehlin [02:04:09] Literally. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, what's dark is what the revelation basically says. Have you ever read d and c? 132.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:04:18] I have, but it's been a Very long time.
John Dehlin [02:04:19] It basically says, emma, if you don't let Joseph do this, you, Emma, will be destroyed. And it says the word destroyed like five times. Something crazy. Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [02:04:29] It's typically a threat.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:04:31] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:04:31] No, God, it's basically in Jesus's voice saying, emma, let Joseph do this or I will destroy you. But aside from that, it also has this thing called the Law of Sarah, which I think was Joseph trying to give Emma a concession, which was the first wife gets to accept or reject future proposed wives.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:05:01] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:05:01] And so that's what that is supposed to happen, according to the revelation. So with both your mom and your aunt, second mom with the third wife, and with your husband, slash, first wife, sister wife, was the love Sarah in play or not? And if not, why not? You're saying. You're saying no.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:05:27] No, it definitely was not.
Margi Dehlin [02:05:29] Have you heard of it? Have you heard of it in the community?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:05:32] Yes, I remember this, actually. The Law of Sarah. But the way they, they. The way they taught it was more of like, yeah, you have the option to reject, but like, why would you. Don't you want your husband to be exalted? Like, don't you want your husband who would be selfish? Yeah, like, your husband has to have more than one wife to get to the celestial kingdom, so why would you hold your husband back? Like that was. It was presented more like that.
John Dehlin [02:05:56] Well, see the second part, and this is all still in modern Mormon scripture. You can go to D&C1 and I recommend you do and read it. We've done several episodes on D&C, 132. What Jesus allegedly also tells Emma is, yes, the Law of Sarah, but if you say no, the man gets to do it anyway. So the revelation says, yes, you can choose, but if you say no, it
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:23] happens anyway, then you're at the loss, not him. He's still going to go forward.
John Dehlin [02:06:27] He can do it anyway. And now you're just disobedient.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:31] That's literally how it's looked at, too. And so even though she wasn't fond of me, we really did try. We honestly tried.
John Dehlin [02:06:39] And she didn't consent.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:39] It sounds like, no, I don't want.
John Dehlin [02:06:41] She didn't want it. She didn't consent.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:42] No.
John Dehlin [02:06:43] I think it was forced on her.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:44] Yeah. In fact, one time it came up in a random conversation between the two of us and she said, I wanted him to take a second wife, but I wanted it to be someone that I already knew so that I could just naturally love them.
John Dehlin [02:06:57] Like your mom?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:58] Exactly.
Margi Dehlin [02:06:59] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:06:59] I'm like, it makes Sense to me, but, I mean, here I was, this new person. I was a child. I was a child. And she was thinking. Yes. So she's thinking, this girl's literally still a child, and I have to respect her. Like, she's an adult, when really she needs a mom still.
Margi Dehlin [02:07:18] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:07:19] And we haven't even. And this is really dark, and I'm ashamed. I haven't even been stopped to think about this. This is illegal. This is.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:07:26] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:07:26] You're a child, and your husband was how old when you.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:07:31] He was 34.
John Dehlin [02:07:32] So that's illegal. That's. That's rape. Statutory rape, or what? Child abuse. Like, I don't know what the.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:07:39] I don't know either, but it was definitely illegal. It is illegal. And.
John Dehlin [02:07:45] But child abuse.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:07:46] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:07:46] It's not marriage. It's child abuse.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:07:48] 100%. You know, I. As someone who was like, oh, I wanted it. I did. I wanted the next step within the flds. I did. But I didn't really understand the weight of what that was until I was in it. And I was like, wow. I expected this to be so much different than it is. I expected to be accepted. I expected to be. I was naive, you know, I had no idea. The feelings and everything that you would experience.
John Dehlin [02:08:22] You expected to be loved by the first wife.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:08:25] Yes. And him even, like, not picked apart, like, well, she's saying, you're doing this, or she's saying that this upsets her, you know, and it was so. There was always, like, tension in some way for a very long time. I had a child pretty fast after I was in the family, like, within a year. So I was 17 when I had my first child. And. Just. It just kept progressing like that where it was just tension. There was never, like. I didn't really find peace for, you know, beyond. It was several years. But during that first year, he actually took a third wife. Oh, yeah.
John Dehlin [02:09:12] Took. Was given.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:09:13] Was given. He actually was given a third wife. I was pregnant. I was probably five months pregnant. Around this time, he took another wife who was my same age. So there was two.
John Dehlin [02:09:25] Still 16.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:09:26] Yes. Well, she was probably 17 now, so, yeah, same age. Meaning, like, within the same year. She was 17. And so he had two very young wives with this already established family. And the two of us, at first, I mean, I was all arms. I'm like, yes. Like, please be my friend. You need a friend.
John Dehlin [02:09:47] I need someone to balance the power out.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:09:48] I'm like, I need a friend. So her and I did everything together. We became probably closer than I was with him. You know, like. And at some point he told me, when she walks in the room, I need you to leave because you're basically getting between me and her and we can't develop our relationship because I was always just like, we're friends, but you needed an ally. Yeah. And so I had to take a huge step back. So then again, it was like I wasn't even being accepted by him, even though I was pregnant with this child. So I took a huge step back. I remember during this time I went to my mom and I was like, has this ever happened to you?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:10:32] Has dad ever told you, like, you need to take a step back and not be so involved when a new woman came into your life? And she was like, not that I can think of, but you really need to go back to him and talk about it. Like, I can't help you.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:10:49] So I, at that point I just was like, I'm not gonna bring it up to him. I don't want to. I don't. I just don't want to deal with it. It's not that my relationship with him wasn't that important. It was more about being friends with her. So she didn't have a child for a very long time. And so we just like, she just helped me with mine.
John Dehlin [02:11:14] She just wasn't able to conceive.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:11:15] Yeah, she just wasn't able to conceive. It was about a year after she was married. He took a fourth.
John Dehlin [02:11:24] Whoa.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:11:24] Yes. So after I came into the family, it was like, yeah, this is happening quickly.
Margi Dehlin [02:11:30] Yes.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:11:30] So about a year after. Okay, well, let's backtrack a little bit. Right after I had my. My baby, she was three or four months old, my ex disappeared in the night on a mission. He took our. His oldest daughter, who was the daughter of his first wife with him and she was 12 years old and he came back two weeks later without her. Oh, she married Warren.
Margi Dehlin [02:12:05] Oh.
John Dehlin [02:12:06] Oh, she was one of his 12 year old.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:12:09] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:12:10] Oh, your effective polygamous sister. No, daughter. Daughter was given to Warren Jeffs as a 12 year old brother.
Margi Dehlin [02:12:18] That is interesting.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:12:20] We did not hear from her or about her, where she went, anything for three years. Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [02:12:31] Were you saying that this is conjecture? My brain just does. This makes connections. Okay, so I'm just going to say this is conjecture. You were saying that he was allowed to have nicer things than other people.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:12:45] I know what you're going to say.
Margi Dehlin [02:12:46] Yeah, I'm just like connecting those dots a little bit, not saying it's true, but it would be interesting if some deal was made or something there, meaning your husband.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:13:00] We think that happens a lot. What the deals where it's like if you, yeah, like I want your daughter. If you, if you give me your daughter when she's of age, I will give you another wife or I'll allow you to keep a certain amount of money from your business. Like there's, we def. This has been a conversation we've had within like a few of us who have left the flds where we're like, it only makes sense because then we're like wait, he took a wife after he gave his daughter or he gave his daughter away and then had another wife? Like you know, different quid pro quo. Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:13:36] See I, I, the reason why I was stopping for a second again, I'm, I'm thinking about Joseph Smith now and tying this to Joseph Smith. One of the 14 year old brides of Joseph Smith was Helen Marr Kimball.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:13:50] Okay.
John Dehlin [02:13:51] She was the daughter of Heber C. Kimball who was in the quorum of the twelve Apostles and you know, one of Joseph's right hand men at the time and one of the modern. In 2025. One of the apologetics that the LDS Church uses to help people allegedly feel better about Joseph Marrying a 14 year old is they'll say Heber C. Kimball gave his daughter to Joseph. As if that's not as bad because it wasn't Joseph taking a 14 year old. It was a father willingly giving his 14 year old to the prophet. Do you have reactions or thoughts about that? Whether that makes it better or worse?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:14:35] I think and they do word it that way and I know with my ex he did take her. I mean he left in the night with her to go take her to the prophet. Okay. But I've heard from people who were actually witnesses at that ceremony, they've left now, said that he was sobbing like a baby, which tells me he knew deep down it was not the right choice. Something.
John Dehlin [02:15:07] Yes, something Sobbing as He gave his 12 year old daughter towards more Jeffs
Ceci Hendrickson [02:15:12] he knew I, he had to have known that something was off about the situation.
Margi Dehlin [02:15:17] Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:15:18] That's a, like she would have been,
John Dehlin [02:15:20] would she have been prepubescent at that point or.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:15:23] Yeah, I guess. I don't know. Like it.
Margi Dehlin [02:15:25] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:15:26] 12 is just like right there. Like you're still, yeah. You're still little. Like.
John Dehlin [02:15:30] Yeah. 12. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:15:31] That's just insane. I can't even imagine, you know. So.
Margi Dehlin [02:15:36] Yeah, so he, I was just gonna say my response to that is where there's like a power differential like that with like a prophet and then also like prior coercion. Like the Emma scripture of like where it's shown that you know, you're basically emotionally manipulated or coerced based on heaven. Like if you're going to be viewed as like given doesn't. I'm just saying for me, what's given, like you could, under that type of system and framework, you can be coerced into giving a 12 year old, you could be in your belief feeling like you're ensuring your 12 year old to a celestial kingdom experience. Like it's just like all this is just nonsense.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:16:30] Yeah, 100%, basically.
John Dehlin [02:16:32] And that's how Joseph would pitch polygamy. He would say to these teenage girls, if you accept my polygamous offer, you and all your family will be saved in the celestial kingdom forever. But if you reject it, you and all your family won't be saved in the celestial kingdom forever. You were just nodding, shaking your head. Why? Why?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:16:50] Because I'm just like, it's, it's trash. Like the, the promises are so, they're just so empty. It's like how, who are you to say that you'll be saved if you do this or that? Like, and to also telling someone you'll be saved if you do this, which is against the law and so wrong on every level.
John Dehlin [02:17:15] Child abuse.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:17:16] Yeah, it's like, I mean it's child abuse. Child traffick. She was taking way over state lines to do this.
John Dehlin [02:17:23] Like that is trafficking.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:17:25] It's trafficking and it's, this is one incident, this was happening weekly with this guy.
John Dehlin [02:17:32] Didn't he have over 40 wives?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:17:33] Yeah, like, I mean, I don't even know the number. So many. I think he had 80 by the time he was arrested. Yeah, like he's younger and younger and younger. Oh yeah, 100%. And so he, he left in the night, takes his daughter with him. We don't hear anything from him for a couple of weeks. Then he comes back and he's only back for a couple of days. And during this time he tells us that we are relocating to Las Vegas to go into hiding. At the time it didn't really make sense, but I understand it now. We had to go into hiding because something very illegal just happened. And during this time was when Warren Jeffs was on the 10 most wanted FBI's list.
John Dehlin [02:18:15] So because your husband's giving his 12 year old daughter to a future prophet, to a fugitive and getting wives in return.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:18:25] I mean it did happen that way. Like he had taken to, gave his daughter away and then he started to take more.
John Dehlin [02:18:32] There's like three wives within a year.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:18:36] Well, he had his first one and then the two, and then we moved to Las Vegas. And then he takes it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Dehlin [02:18:42] Got three wives within a, what, two year period. Assigned by the Prophet.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:18:47] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:18:48] Who just got his 12 year old daughter. I mean, that's.
Margi Dehlin [02:18:51] Yeah, that's really insidious.
Hiding in Las Vegas Under FLDS Rule
Ceci Hendrickson [02:18:53] Yeah, it is. It's crazy to think about it, you know. And so we relocated to Las Vegas in hiding. We were not allowed to go out into the public. We stayed home. We had a pretty big house, but we couldn't even go into the backyard. We lived like this for five years.
Margi Dehlin [02:19:10] Wow.
John Dehlin [02:19:11] In like Clark County.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:19:12] Vegas or Las Vegas. In different areas of the city.
John Dehlin [02:19:16] You would move around.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:19:17] We moved around. Every year we moved to a new house.
John Dehlin [02:19:19] A polygamous, A fundamentalist polygamous family living in suburban Vegas in the 2000s or 2010s?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:19:28] Yes. So from 2005, it was the summer of 2005 to the spring of 2010.
Margi Dehlin [02:19:35] Wow.
John Dehlin [02:19:36] Y' all are just hanging out in Vegas and inside.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:19:39] Inside. Homeschooling our children. If we went out, we had to do it quickly. Go straight to the grocery store, get food. But we couldn't ever go to the grocery stores near our house. We had to drive to the other side of Vegas to do it. Like we. We were in hiding for that long. And it started affecting our children's development. So a vitamin D deficiency in children causes bow leggedness. Barrel chest. There's a few other things. And we started to see this in our children.
John Dehlin [02:20:12] Why were they vitamin D deficient?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:20:14] No sunlight.
John Dehlin [02:20:15] They don't go outside even though you're in Vegas?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:20:17] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:20:17] And it's 120 degrees staying inside. You're not getting the sunlight. That's crazy.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:20:22] We had a doctor who we trusted who was also a part of the flds. She was in high school in Las Vegas too. And somehow we found out we were both there. So she started to come over to our house occasionally and she told us straight up, like, your children are vitamin D deficient. Like that's dangerous. And so we started to go up onto what they call Mount Charleston. That's there in Vegas. And we would drive clear out into the sticks where no one was. And we would take our kids to hang out outside up there so we'd get sunlight.
John Dehlin [02:20:54] Okay, I have to ask you a couple questions. So the first one is another apologetic the modern LDS Church uses to justify Joseph Smith's polygamy is to say that the teenage Girls wrote in their journals either that the Holy Ghost or an angel appeared to them. You're already laughing.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:21:15] Sorry. It's just the story is fun. I mean, it's not funny, but it's like.
John Dehlin [02:21:18] No, it's dark and terrible. But what else do you do if you don't. I don't know, laugh or cry. But they'll say, we have the journal entries of these young teenage girls who entered into polygamy. And they write that an angel came to them and said that they were to get married to Joseph. Or they wrote that they reflected fondly and that it was the happiest time of their lives to be sealed to the prophet. In other words, they either loved it or they got divine confirmation that it was good or that they felt spiritually like it was the right thing to do. As someone who was a child bride, what would you say to the Mormon Church when they say that these young teenage polygamous brides either got spiritual confirmation or reflected positively on being Joseph Smith's child brides? What would you say to that?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:22:16] I don't think it's true. For one, as a child bride myself, it was what I thought I wanted because it was what I was conditioned to believe, what I wanted. But being in it and now being out of it, it's like I would have never chose that if I had known what the alternative was.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:22:37] That was not the life that I would have picked. And saying that a revelation from God, like that was never the experience I had. There was never like a spiritual confirmation that this was the right path ever. If anything, it was the opposite of that. But I was so conditioned to ignore my intuition or any feeling that I had myself to that I just didn't even think about that part. It was like I.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:23:05] In fact, if I ever felt that what I thought of something and the truth that I was being taught was different, then I was questioning authority. So then I would check myself. I wouldn't check the facts. I would check myself.
John Dehlin [02:23:21] So you weren't allowed to have thoughts or even feelings that went outside what you were taught was right?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:23:26] Yes. And even there was several times I had gone to. To my husband at the time and was like, hey, I'm feeling that. Like, this is off or something's wrong here. He would be like, you need to go pray about this and get the Holy Spirit. You need to, you know, get on the same track. Like, keep sweeping. Yeah, you need to. You need to get yourself under control and figure out what you're feeling and ask God to forgive you.
Margi Dehlin [02:23:51] Of that.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:23:52] And so women are very much taught not to listen to their intuition, the Holy Spirit, whatever it is guiding them. Like, you just shut that part of yourself off to where you're like, every time it comes up, you're like, nope, that's wrong. I shouldn't listen. And it takes a long time to get back to that.
Margi Dehlin [02:24:11] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:24:11] So just like, there's no consent for a child, you know?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:24:16] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:24:16] Sexually, there's no spiritual consent.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:24:20] No.
John Dehlin [02:24:20] Because you. You just don't have the freedom to have free thoughts and free feelings.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:24:26] Not at all.
John Dehlin [02:24:26] Is that what you're saying?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:24:27] Yes. And, you know, I said this before, it was a culture shock. That's how it was. Even going into a marriage, it was like a culture shock. You're taught your whole life, don't look at boys, don't give boys your attention, don't. Don't anything about men or boys ever. And then within 30 minutes, you're told, this is your husband. Go make a baby. Go build a family. You know, go do all these things. And you're just like, yeah, a deer in headlights. It's scary. It's un. It's not familiar at all. You don't know what you're getting yourself into. It's just so different from the, you know, you're taught so strictly growing up how to keep on this path. And then it's like overnight, you're on a completely different one.
John Dehlin [02:25:16] Okay, thank you for answering these questions. I really. I think this really sheds light on both Joseph Smith's polygamy, but also in the church's apologetics for Joseph Smith's polygamy.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:25:27] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:25:27] So I think this is really important.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:25:28] Yeah, I do, too.
John Dehlin [02:25:30] The next. Another apologetic the church often likes to say is that polygamy was never about sex. That these men were trying to be righteous. These men were trying to do what God wanted. There's lots of other ways to have sex than to try and have it be religious, polygamy based. And so just for Joseph and for all these other men, it was about obeying God, not about sex. Knowing that your husband in his 30s, married four teenage girls, is that right?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:26:07] No, only two of us were teenagers.
John Dehlin [02:26:09] The fourth wife was in her.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:26:13] She was already a mother. She already had children.
John Dehlin [02:26:17] She was reassigned. Okay, so how old was she?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:26:21] I want to say she was 26 at the time.
John Dehlin [02:26:24] So knowing that your husband had four wives, two of them teenage wives, when assigned to him, what are you able to say about whether for him he was enjoying the sexual aspect or whether it was a Burden to him. Like, there are these quotes that they make about Brigham Young that he wanted to die when he was told he had to practice polygamy. And the church wants to often say that these Mormon men saw polygamy as a burden, and it was a horror that they just did because God dragged and kicked them, screaming. What can you say about that? Apologetic versus the reality that you experienced of having a husband with four wives. Two of them were teenagers. And again, you don't have to say anything about this if you're uncomfortable.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:27:17] Right.
John Dehlin [02:27:17] I'm talking about whether the men were probably enjoying the sexual aspect.
Margi Dehlin [02:27:22] And one thing we could also do is just make it more general. Like what I observed in general.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:27:28] That's what I was thinking.
Margi Dehlin [02:27:28] That way you're not, you know, specifically.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:27:32] Yes. So I think. Think it was different for everyone. I will say that, because I think for some people, yeah, it was all about that. Like, oh, I got this new shiny thing to look at, to touch, to, you know, do all these things with. And especially if they waited a really long time to have another wife placed with them. So I think it could be taken that way, or it could be someone where they're like, well, my life was pretty great before.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:27:59] Like, I got along with my wife. We were building a family. This is just extra, like, you know, in my personal experience, I don't really want to say that I was singled out because I was younger. It always felt like he kind of treated us all pretty much the same in. In most.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:28:23] Most situations. I want. I don't know. It never felt like I was singled out that way, which I'm grateful for, because, you know, it could have been way different. He did end up actually taking a fifth wife, so there was actually five of us by the time we, you know, like, all said and done. And it was also another woman with children. So he took on basically two other families with their children. Yeah, to.
Margi Dehlin [02:28:51] That's a lot.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:28:52] Yeah. So, yeah, all said and done, we had, I want to say, 21 children in that family dynamic. But to answer the question about, like, the sexual side of it, I don't. I think it really just came down to who the man was deep down. Like, I think that they could use that to their benefit, you know, being like, well, it's a teenager. I got a teenage wife and use it to their benefit. I also had a friend who got married right around the same time I did, and she's like, my husband won't have anything to do with me till I'm 18.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:29:27] And I was like, wow, okay. Like how is he getting away with that? Like, I remember asking her, like, how is the priesthood not like putting pressure on him to like, you know, because we were the same age. And she said, I don't know. So I think it just depended on the guy.
John Dehlin [02:29:45] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:29:45] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:29:47] Okay, thank you. Thank you for that.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:29:49] Sure.
Witnessing Harm to Children in the Community
John Dehlin [02:29:50] As far as you witnessing your husband's first wife's 12 year old daughter being given a Warren Jeffs, was there any part of you that's like, this is wrong, that's child abuse, this is illegal, this is terrible. Or were you so indoctrinated that you couldn't even see how illegal and morally reprehensible that was?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:30:18] At the time, we did not know at all the in depth details of what was actually happening to these girls that would disappear. We were told to believe that they were going to quote Zion to help build the community. So in our heads that was like, well, she's already 12 years old in our home acting as a pretty mature girl like we all did growing up. By 12, you're carrying part of the household duties, if not just as much as a mother. So for them to call a 12 year old to go do that in Zion made sense, right? More people, more hands on to carry the load of building a community.
John Dehlin [02:31:05] Would it have been seen as an honor?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:31:07] Yes. Yes. Everyone wanted to go like it was. If you went, you were part of the elite and that was. Everyone was working towards that.
John Dehlin [02:31:16] Or if one of your kids got chosen.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:31:17] Yes, you were part of the elite. It doesn't mean though that mothers weren't, I mean, or fathers. Yeah, mothers or fathers weren't feeling so deeply heartbroken over it. Like I watched his first wife. This is when my heart started to soften about her, is when I watched her mourn and grieve the loss of a child that was still alive. I remember just like watching this one, like she was never the same after this.
John Dehlin [02:31:44] It broke her.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:31:45] Yeah, it broke her like she was a strong woman. Like she never showed emotion ever. And I remember walking up and seeing her just sobbing and there's literally nothing you can say or do to console this brokenness. Like I, you know, it's just out of this world to wake up and see that your child is not there.
Margi Dehlin [02:32:09] So terrible.
John Dehlin [02:32:09] Yeah. Did she ever tell you why she was sobbing? Would she ever put words to it?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:32:13] We never. It was one of those things that it was just a silent understanding, I think, where you just knew and you're
John Dehlin [02:32:21] hiding in Vegas for five years, never seen the light of day because this 12 year old girl was given to Warren Jeffs to be a wife and
Ceci Hendrickson [02:32:29] he was taking more. So it was like, because we were a family who had, you know. Well, we didn't know what happened, but he did, the husband did. And so he had to protect his family from the law because what if the law found out he had done that and came after his family to try to get information, especially with the FBI going, where is this man? And so she. That was in 2005 when she disappeared in the night Warren was arrested the next year. Yes, in 2006.
Margi Dehlin [02:33:06] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:33:07] Yeah, in July of 2006. So.
Margi Dehlin [02:33:10] So was she returned?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:33:11] No. Nope, she wasn't returned or we did not hear anything from her until the Texas raid in 2008. And the reason, the only reason we had to be in like we heard from her is she was one of the children that were taken into custody.
John Dehlin [02:33:32] That's when they raided the temple.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:33:34] Yes, right.
Warren Jeffs Arrested and the Community Reacts
John Dehlin [02:33:37] What was it like in the community and for you and for your family when the prophets arrested?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:33:42] It was dramatic, traumatizing. I mean, I remember during this time my husband had come back from a mission, so he pulled it up on the Internet, which was. The Internet was completely off limits to us, but he pulled up the video of him being arrested, of Warren Jeff's being arrested, and showed us. And we fasted and prayed. People cried like it was a whole thing. Like our. We felt like we were being attacked from the outside because of this. Even though looking back at it now, I'm like, what? He should have been arrested way sooner than this. But with the facts that we had, it was like, we're being attacked. Which then in turn they would be like, well, the evil always wants to take out the good. Right.
John Dehlin [02:34:30] It strengthens testimony because the prophecy is that the righteous will be persecuted.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:34:35] Yeah, exactly.
Margi Dehlin [02:34:36] So clever.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:34:37] Yes. And so that was very much pushed. I mean, that was their strategy in it all was like, well, we ought to push this message even further. And so we all were like, well, to get Warren Jeffs out, we have to be more faithful. Like the Lord will deliver him. Right. So we fasted, prayed like even more people were called to Zion. And pretty soon it was like half of a family would disappear in the night. Or there was just everyone was going. And if you weren't going, you kind of had to stop and ask yourself why? Like, why aren't you being more faithful?
John Dehlin [02:35:15] And you're using this word Zion. Like, I'm reading the Joseph biography with John Turner right now. Zion meant Missouri back in Joseph Smith's day. So this whole idea of a place being designated as Zion and people need to go to it a thousand percent was how Joseph Smith was in the early years of the church. And weirdly, the saints end up getting kicked out of Missouri, and the idea of Zion just gets shelved. Even though lots of prophecies were made about Zion being built for the return of Jesus by Joseph Smith, it never happens. So then the idea of Zion just becomes redefined as, like, wherever the church is, Zion dwells within you. And that's the way it is for, like, 150 years or whatever. So Warren or whoever at some point brings back this idea of a gathering place called Zion, and he picks Texas.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:36:08] Yes. A huge ranch out in Texas. It's in the city.
John Dehlin [02:36:12] It's so random.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:36:13] Yeah, it is very random, but it's
John Dehlin [02:36:14] not any more random than Independence, Missouri.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:36:16] Right. Well, I think part of it was that he knew that there was leniency in the law there. Like Texas. Yes.
John Dehlin [02:36:24] Because of protection of religions, probably.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:36:26] Like, I know the place he picked made sense for the thing that he was trying to build, and he was able to get a huge piece of property that was out in the middle of nowhere, and probably nobody even cared who or what was happening out there. You know, Texas is so big. Yes, exactly. So I think he was very strategic in where he picked to do this. And when they were building this YFZ ranch, it started with nothing. Like, they would take buses or trucks of men and drop them out in the middle of nowhere and be like, there's your studs and your hammers and nails. Build something. And, oh, you're. You're sleeping on the ground. Like, you know, it started from nothing, and they had to be very secretive about it.
John Dehlin [02:37:20] Yeah. So even the families back home who had just lost their dad didn't know where their dad was or what he was doing.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:26] We had no idea. We did not learn where he was until after that raid.
John Dehlin [02:37:30] So years. Are you saying years?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:32] Years.
John Dehlin [02:37:32] Your dad was gone for years?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:34] Yeah. Not at all. It was like, gone for a few months, come home for a week. Gone for a few months. But, yeah, years.
John Dehlin [02:37:40] And he would never tell you where he was or what he was doing.
Margi Dehlin [02:37:43] So during. Was this during the time that you were in Vegas?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:46] Yep. My dad would go all during that time, and so would my husband.
John Dehlin [02:37:51] And. Husband?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:52] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:37:52] You don't call him a husband.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:54] I try not to, because he was in my head. He was never a husband to me. It was a.
Margi Dehlin [02:37:58] Words matter, huh?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:37:59] Yeah. It's Like, Yeah. I mean, I have to say something to explain who he is. It's hard to say husband, because I'm like, I have one. And that was. It's very much different than that.
Margi Dehlin [02:38:09] Yeah. Those experiences are probably very different.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:13] Yeah. Totally different.
John Dehlin [02:38:14] Oh, man. So your husband at the time, although you weren't legally married. I guess that's another reason, right?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:21] It's like, he wasn't my husband.
Margi Dehlin [02:38:23] How do you refer to him in.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:24] In real life just now?
Margi Dehlin [02:38:26] Oh, how do you. Because we refer to him the same way.
John Dehlin [02:38:30] Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:31] Yeah, I guess I just say my husband or my ex. I don't know. It's hard. Like, it's hard to decipher because it's like that was the position he filled, technically.
Margi Dehlin [02:38:41] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:42] In the story.
Margi Dehlin [02:38:43] Right.
John Dehlin [02:38:43] It sounds like you didn't even really have a chance to get to know him because.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:46] Not really.
John Dehlin [02:38:47] You had three kids with him.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:48] I had four.
John Dehlin [02:38:49] Four kids with them, but he was gone a lot more than around.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:53] Oh, yeah, 100%. I even had one children without him there.
John Dehlin [02:38:57] Oh, wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:38:57] Yeah. Like, it was just.
Margi Dehlin [02:38:59] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:39:00] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:39:02] What an incredible amount of evil power Warren Jeffs had to be. And I'm sickened by so many things. But two of the wives were reassigned from other men, which means Warren Jeffs was just doing power plays, getting rid of men that he didn't like and then reassigning their wives to other men who he could get teenage brides from or. You know what I mean? That's so dark and terrible.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:39:31] It is. It's very twisted. And when you start to understand what kind of man Warren Jess is, you're like, whoa, wait a second. Like, all of those thoughts that I had are validated. You know when you start to see the truth of it all, the darkness. Because when you're in it, you can only see so far in front of you. You're not looking outside of it. Like, all you see is what they tell you. There's no way to fact check what you're being told. You don't have access to the Internet. And we were told if you ever look on the Internet and you see something that goes against what we have taught you, you could be unusable. Like, your testimony could be so tainted that we could never call you to Zion. So that also kept people from ever trying to look outside. You just. Just stayed on that it meant you
John Dehlin [02:40:18] would be separated from your family and all your family would get to go to Zion and you'd be left behind,
Ceci Hendrickson [02:40:23] which happened to people all the time. That mothers would at times wake up and all their children would be gone and they're just left there in an empty home like it was.
John Dehlin [02:40:33] Women were left behind.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:40:34] Yes, y. I know.
John Dehlin [02:40:41] So your ex slash husband at the time and dad were constantly going to Zion to build the kingdom. You ended up having four children with your hus. Ex slash husband at the time mostly gone. And then it's just you and your sister wives and all of our children holding down the fort.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:41:03] Yeah, yeah. Up until.
John Dehlin [02:41:06] Never able to leave the house.
Margi Dehlin [02:41:07] Can you imagine?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:41:09] Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was. It was. It was intense. I will say that. Like, we were not always, always peaceful, loving and kind. There was. There was days when I was like, I could punch someone like. Like, people are not. We're not getting along here at all.
John Dehlin [02:41:26] And were you. You weren't going to church because there wouldn't have been a church.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:41:29] Nope. During that time, they had paused a lot of things because all the attention was being put on this new community that was being built. So there was less church. There was less, you know, if they did hold a church. We would travel from Las Vegas to Colorado City on those one off weekends. And we had no stops in between because we were in hiding. We had to just go straight from point A to point B, go to church, go back to Vegas. Because they did, you know, they. They had paused a lot of things, but there still was those random, like, the prophet has a message this Sunday.
John Dehlin [02:42:10] Wow. Okay. So how did you process the prophet being in jail relative to God? Like, wouldn't God protect the prophet? Wouldn't God keep the prophet out of jail?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:42:25] Yes, that was a huge thing because we, you know, we always thought that too, where we were like, well, the. The prophet, if he's so led by God or he's God's mouthpiece or, you know, he's being so. Like he basically is God at this point, then why wouldn't he be protected? The only thing that we, like, came to a conclusion of all this is that he. It was a test on the people to see if we would continue to do the will of him and if we would stand the test of time. I guess, like, would we. We keep our faith alive? Would we keep following all of his teachings even though he wasn't presently there with all of us? And so, I mean, he started getting
John Dehlin [02:43:17] weird revelations in prison, right?
Jeffs Confesses and the FLDS Unravels
Ceci Hendrickson [02:43:19] Yes. So this is when everything started getting really weird.
John Dehlin [02:43:21] So tell us about that, because people don't know.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:43:23] Yes. So he was in. Once he got arrested, it was like all of the revelations he would Put out were very vague while also being. It's almost like, okay, I can't have this, so neither can you.
John Dehlin [02:43:39] Yeah, tell us about that.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:43:40] Yes. So he would. He banned any kind of marital relations.
John Dehlin [02:43:44] So people. He told all his people they couldn't have sex anymore.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:43:48] Yes. So no.
John Dehlin [02:43:48] The married people.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:43:50] When he.
John Dehlin [02:43:51] No children.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:43:52] Yes. When he told everyone this. I was actually pregnant with my fourth child already. And so. So I thought that was gonna be my last child. I was like, hey, I'm like, I have four babies. That's all I'm ever gonna have because of his revelation. So he basically was telling the people, you can't have marital relations. You can't have. It was a lot of comfort things that he was taking away. Like, no hugging your spouse. You can shake their hand. I don't remember if he specifically said, you can't say I love you to your children, but there was something like that to where we stopped. Love you. We.
John Dehlin [02:44:31] What about hugs, Brown? Don.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:44:34] He. They were. Because his voice. This is what he said in one of them was if you show affection to your child, you're doing it for selfish reasons. So pretty much any kind of physical contact other than a handshake was forbidden or frowned upon. He also changed the way everyone. That's when he really started to change the way everyone ate, the way everyone dressed. Like, you had to wear a certain uniform.
Margi Dehlin [02:45:02] Oh.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:45:03] Like some of the revelations were as crazy as you have to. Moms have to get up in the morning or get up every hour throughout the night and check on their children. And if. If you don't, something bad will happen to your children while they sleep. We weren't allowed to walk around the house in nighttime wear, so no pajamas or anything. We had to get dressed to go check on our children every hour.
Margi Dehlin [02:45:31] That's very much like fight or flight.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:45:33] Yes. Like, it put everyone in. I mean, this is how I always think about. You're so exhausted from the requirements that you have.
Margi Dehlin [02:45:43] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:45:44] Plus taking care of these huge families, cooking for them. Class time was at 5:30am and then bedtime was at like 9:00pm, I want to say. And it's like everything was so structured and planned out for you to the point.
John Dehlin [02:46:01] Were you still praying hourly at that point?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:03] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:46:03] Oh, that continued.
Margi Dehlin [02:46:05] Oh, wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:06] So every hour at every day, night, everything. There was a requirement, especially of the women.
John Dehlin [02:46:14] Like what?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:15] Prayer time during the day, and then every hour during the night was to get up and check on your children. So every hour you had to be somewhere. And it kept women tired overworked to the point of. Honestly, you kind of just become. What's the word?
Margi Dehlin [02:46:36] Like a shell.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:37] Yeah. And where you're just a robot, it's
Margi Dehlin [02:46:40] like trying to make you machines.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:42] Is it apathetic? Is that the word?
John Dehlin [02:46:44] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:44] Where you're just like, I don't really care what happens anymore. Yeah, you're just tired. You're just so tired. You're like, I don't care if this. I don't care anymore.
John Dehlin [02:46:53] Sleep deprivation is listed as one of the cult. One of the cool techniques.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:46:56] Yeah. Where you're just like, hey, whatever says. Whatever he says goes. I don't have energy. Like, your spirit's broken to fight anymore. I'm just tired. Yeah, that's how it was. Like you were saying.
Margi Dehlin [02:47:06] Is that similar to psychology speak here. Is that similar at all to being in a dissociative state?
John Dehlin [02:47:14] Sure, if you're exhausted.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:47:17] Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's one of the biggest things. I think that all. Every woman that I've talked to who has come out of the flds, who was a mother in there during this time tells me I just became really good at disassociating.
Margi Dehlin [02:47:31] Yeah, that's right. You're completely disconnected from yourself, from your life, from everything.
John Dehlin [02:47:37] This is so important. I can't thank you enough for talking about this. When Warren Jeffs got arrested. Okay, really quickly. And then I have a second question. I remember there being a point where Warren Jeffs admits he wasn't really a prophet.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:47:53] He does. And I were you.
John Dehlin [02:47:55] Do you remember that happening when it happened, or was that kept from you?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:47:59] They tried to keep it from the people, and instead they got him to admit that he. He. Okay, fine. I actually am his brother. Whoever was there when he said, I'm actually. Tell the people I was wrong. I'm not the prophet. He said, that's not right. You're just stressed or whatever. Like, you are the prophet.
John Dehlin [02:48:20] But he did admit at one point he wasn't the prophet.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:48:22] I've seen the recording of it since.
John Dehlin [02:48:23] And at the time, you knew that he had.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:48:26] Yeah. So they tried to keep from the people that he had said that and instead put out the message that he was going through, like, a difficult time and we need to increase our prayers for him because all of these things. And his brothers at that point kind of took control and were like, say you are. Like, say you are the prophet. Don't say you're not. Like, it's too. I think at that point they were like, it's too much. It's Too. That's too big of a.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:48:52] Like, if we go tell everyone that you said that, everything's going to crumble. They were in denial. Like, don't say that. Say that you are. And so the message that was given to the people was that he was going through a difficult time. And later on it kind of got out that he had said that, and everyone was like, that's not true. They. They AI Generated that video and put it on the Internet. Like, yeah, they made it up. And I'm just like, I mean, come on.
John Dehlin [02:49:23] There's that scene in the wizard of Oz, Part 2, the For Good where Elphaba's telling.
Margi Dehlin [02:49:31] You mean wicked.
John Dehlin [02:49:32] What did I say?
Margi Dehlin [02:49:32] Wizard of Oz.
John Dehlin [02:49:33] Yeah. And wicked for good where Elphaba is telling the wizard to just admit to the people that he was lying. And the wizard says, I would, but they won't believe me.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:49:43] Literally. Yeah, I think that that's. That's. I always think about that, too. I'm like, if he really had released that message, I think all the people would have been like, they're. They're doing something to him in prison. They're putting him on. Like, they would have psychologically gaslit themselves into believing that he was.
John Dehlin [02:50:01] See, yeah, yeah. Like, because that goes to my bigger question. Like, when all this is happening and I'm. By this point, I'm really paying attention to Mormonism. This is what year about where he's in prison and. And he's starting to. He tells people they can't have sex and he. He admits.
John Dehlin [02:50:18] Okay, yeah, so 2010, this is 15 years ago. I'm watching all this happening. I'm in grad school, and I'm thinking, okay, well, this is the end of the FLDS church. Like, their leaders in prison, he can't lead them anymore. The leadership's going to get fractured.
John Dehlin [02:50:33] Plus, he's telling everyone they can't have sex. There's no way. They'll. They'll just. That alone, they won't be able to do it. And they'll say, that's ridiculous. And so they'll leave. And then he admits that he's not really a prophet. Like, in my mind, I'm like, they're done. They're toast. The FLDS is over. And you're laughing. I know, but that's not even. That didn't end the FLDS church didn't cause people to stop believing.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:51:00] No, it didn't. And you know how.
John Dehlin [02:51:02] How did that not end the church?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:51:04] The only thing I can say about that is I think the only way a man in his position has that much power is he has people who will do his dirty work for him. They believe so much in him that they will continue to keep things going by filling in the gaps that he can't communicate to people, making stuff up. Like, even if a revelation that he puts out doesn't totally make sense, they'll add to it. Like there are people who are helping him keep this going. He cannot do it by himself.
John Dehlin [02:51:35] Plus they control the money, they control the power. And you know, money and power do a lot. And I'm thinking about in the modern LDS church when like Thomas S. Monson or Ezra Top Benson, they had full on dementia. But the members didn't want to believe that and just other leaders stepped up to lead the church. It was kind of like a weekend at Bernie's church, you know, which is just like this idea that the prophet's in effect dead, but the people under him still lead the church and just prop the prophet up to look alive when functionally he's dead. But in your case, this guy's in prison, even admitted he's not a prophet. And the, and that's not enough.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:52:19] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:52:19] To make the true believer stop believing.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:52:21] No, it's not. And yeah. So after he tells the people all these rules, no more marital relationships or relations, no more hugging. I mean, there is. The list goes on. It's.
Margi Dehlin [02:52:36] You have dietary stuff, you have nighttime
Ceci Hendrickson [02:52:39] hourly, what shoe you put on first.
Margi Dehlin [02:52:41] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:52:42] What hand you use to wash a dirty dish versus what hand you use to pick up something clean. Like it was.
John Dehlin [02:52:49] These are the revelations from jail.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:52:50] Yes. Like they were so down to the nitty gritty.
Margi Dehlin [02:52:54] Can I ask you something? Is this like a sign? Does he start to have like a mental collapse?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:53:00] I think during this time is when that I do, I do think that
John Dehlin [02:53:04] he gets super skinny. I know.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:53:05] Yeah, he gets super skinny. And he, he, I mean he was hospitalized multiple times during this era as well. So I don't know what that was about. Like, why was he hospitalized? Was it mental health?
John Dehlin [02:53:17] I think he was on suicide watch.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:53:18] Yes. Like, and so like, yeah, there's definitely something going on there. I feel like he was not.
Margi Dehlin [02:53:27] Okay, but you did implement these things.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:53:31] Yeah, 100%.
Margi Dehlin [02:53:32] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:53:33] Yeah, 100%. Like that was how you showed your faithfulness us was by sticking to the rules, doing everything that he was asking of you. And it was hard sometimes to remember everything. Like you'd stop during the day and be like, ah, did I? Yeah, you know, did I do everything right? Is that why I'm not being called to Zion. So you're constantly on high alert about even yourself.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:53:53] Did I say the right word? Did I pray before I went in the house? Did I pray in the vehicle before I drove? Did I? You know, there's always like just, just constant asking yourself, am I enough? Like that's really what it comes down to. Am I doing enough? Am I implementing everything enough? And it got to.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:54:13] It was 2012 then we can pretty much continued this lifestyle from 2010 to 2012. We had moved back to Colorado City during this time because a lot of truths had come out already and the people that were going to be arrested for things that happened in the YFC ranch were arrested and my husband was not included in that. So we were quote, safe now. So we moved back to the, to Colorado City and we're just living our lives there. He grows his business exponentially like it was booming. Yeah, he was doing amazing like bringing in really great money, helping.
John Dehlin [02:54:57] And again it was what type of business?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:55:00] Low voltage.
John Dehlin [02:55:00] So that would be just electricity?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:55:02] Yeah, that would be like nurse call systems, security systems. He developed the entire security system on like the profit's home. Like it was all that sort of thing. So yeah, that's what low voltage is.
John Dehlin [02:55:16] I'm just. How does a man with 5 wives and 20x children build a successful business and serve as a missionary for the church? Like how? I can't even imagine how he does that.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:55:28] It all has to do with positioning people. You know, like if you have your family set up a certain way where it's like, hey, this is your rotation, you're doing, you know, your school teaching, you're doing kitchen duty, you're doing this and you do it like that is your duty and you stick to it. And these are the children that are under you at certain times. It's all about the system.
John Dehlin [02:55:48] The family runs itself.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:55:50] Yeah, everybody, if you do your part,
John Dehlin [02:55:52] it runs like the wives and the children run the family.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:55:54] Yes.
John Dehlin [02:55:55] So the husband doesn't have to worry about the family.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:55:57] Yes, pretty much. And then same thing with his business. It's all about positioning people. Okay, you're good at this, you're running this part of it. Even if, and that doesn't change if he's there physically or not, is still operated the same. So it's like he started the business because of his knowledge and like he knew how to do the work. So he trained people and hired people that could also support that same mission or whatever in the business. But same thing. Both of them Just ran themselves, whether he was there or not. And this is just one case of that. Like, this happened all over in the flds. Like, many successful men ran their families and homes and businesses like this.
John Dehlin [02:56:40] When Warren was arrested, he was found with bags and bags and bags of cash. So I'm just wondering if you even know your ex. Like, when he made all his money, did he give it all to the profit, do you think he probably kept some?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:56:54] Oh, he definitely kept some. Because during this time, we were. We were allowed to. We had an allowance. Yeah, we had a family allowance. All of our vehicles were ran through his business. So we always had nice vehicles, a nice home. Like, we really didn't ever live in bad situations. Even in Vegas, our homes were massive. Like, we would. For instance, do you know, I don't know if you know where Michael Jackson lived in Vegas. Okay. We lived right next to him.
John Dehlin [02:57:28] Oh, so mansions, basically.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:57:30] Yes, we lived right next to him. Like, there was a fence line between us. Whoa. For a year. Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:57:36] So you're not living in poverty, you're living in a mansion?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:57:38] No, we lived. Yeah, we. We did not live in poverty.
John Dehlin [02:57:42] That just shows how much money religions make. Like, the Mormon Church today is worth 500 billion, probably. But the FLDS church, with all its dysfunction is probably worth hundreds of millions.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:57:54] Oh, 100%.
Margi Dehlin [02:57:55] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:57:55] And I mean, they. They had. Somehow, they had the faithfulness of all the men that went to work to get them to turn in their money. Like, I mean, imagine full salaries from
John Dehlin [02:58:08] people just for decades.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:58:10] For decades. Yeah. Like you. There's so much money being run through that, like.
John Dehlin [02:58:14] But also all the revenue, not just the salaries, but all the revenue of the businesses. Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:58:19] Yeah.
John Dehlin [02:58:19] And then being pulled back into the
Ceci Hendrickson [02:58:20] church, they would figure out how to get it. Get it out legally to where it wasn't like a red flag to the IRS or whatever. Like, they would do it legally.
John Dehlin [02:58:31] And as a church, they're tax exempt, so there's no taxes.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:58:33] Yeah, they would do it legally to the point where, like, a withdrawal of a certain amount would be coded in a way that made sense. Like.
John Dehlin [02:58:43] Yeah, they have really good. Really good accountants.
Ceci Hendrickson [02:58:47] Yeah, they would have to.
John Dehlin [02:58:49] Yeah. Wow.
Losing Children and Breaking from the Faith
Margi Dehlin [02:58:51] So at this point, you've moved back and are you still, like, how long does this last, this hyper, vigilant state of just, like, doing all the things?
Ceci Hendrickson [02:59:02] Yeah, it did not last long. I'll say that it last. So we moved in 2010 back to Colorado City, and then in 2012.
John Dehlin [02:59:14] What was the state of Colorado City when you moved back versus when you
Ceci Hendrickson [02:59:18] had left it, I mean, it was still functioning because everyone was starting to move back. There was no, like, grocery stores and stuff there, but there was a huge storehouse where you could go get your food. Like they were a functioning community. It was. Again, systems were put in place. Everything ran pretty smoothly. Everyone had their. Their duty, whether it was to help run the storehouse, help run the meeting house, family life, like, whatever. Everyone had a job, and so it ran decent, you know, and during this time, it got. So we spent two years in Colorado City just. Just living life that way, relying on the storehouse. We didn't go to outside stores for groceries or anything. We would just get everything from the church and.
Margi Dehlin [03:00:06] Wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:00:07] Yeah. So that's kind of when things started to change a little bit with how our lives had been. Like, we were pretty well off, and now all of a sudden, we're living off the storehouse, and we're not allowed to go just get loads of stuff from Costco unless we're taking it to the storehouse. So if we're gonna go get groceries for our family, we have to get a ton and take it to the storehouse, turn it in, and then take back what we need. So that was a system that they had in place. It was their way of control, I guess. I don't know. I don't even know what the right term for that would be. Control. And maybe even so that they could disperse things more evenly throughout the community. And, I mean, maybe they.
John Dehlin [03:00:52] It.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:00:52] You know, but it was 2012 when everything. I think. I don't know. I think Warren realized that people were starting to have a lot of questions, like, okay, this has gone on long enough. Like, the revelations are changing. Everything about everything we've been taught is so different than it used to be. And he started to. Again, did another purge where he was sending people away right and left. Like, there was just families being split up.
John Dehlin [03:01:22] It's weird. He can manage the church from prison.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:01:25] That's where I'm like, he has to have people who are just okay with this, like, taking the messages that he gives and taking them to the people
Margi Dehlin [03:01:36] that they're for, like, enforcers.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:01:39] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:01:41] If, like, he's imprisoned for felonies related to how he managed the church. It's weird that they would let him still have relationships with his underlings to still run the church that he was imprisoned for running.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:01:57] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:01:58] It's wild.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:01:59] I know. And sometimes I'm like, what did. Like, what did they see in all of this? And maybe part of it, too. We just didn't know a lot of stuff. Like I didn't know half of what was even going on till after I left. But in 2012 is when pretty much was the downfall of my ex's family. They sent him away with all of his wives except me.
John Dehlin [03:02:25] Whoa. Why were you singled out? Why were you left behind?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:02:27] I still to this day do not know.
Margi Dehlin [03:02:28] Really.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:02:29] The Revelation?
John Dehlin [03:02:29] No idea.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:02:30] Yeah. The revelation was very point blank and it said you and all of your former wives except me. And the only name listed in the revelation was my name. You and all your former wives except Cece are to leave and never come back.
John Dehlin [03:02:48] Go where?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:02:49] Just away. They didn't care.
John Dehlin [03:02:51] They were kicked out of the community.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:02:53] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:02:53] After all the money he gave to the church, after all he had given, he must have. Do you know why he fell out of favor?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:02:59] I do not know. Like, they tried to give him a reason in the Revelation, which was the killing of unborn babies, which he's like, well, I've never done that before.
John Dehlin [03:03:13] So how did the men and women go that long without sex? Do you think that they were going without sex?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:03:21] I mean, I was so. I mean, I think so. I think they were. I think they were trying their best to honor the.
Margi Dehlin [03:03:31] It's so funny. That's the thing you bring out because for me, I'm like, are they still getting up on the hour during the night? During the, like the things that feel like the horror. I know would be so hard.
John Dehlin [03:03:45] I'm trying to think, well, here's why. It's not. It's because I see, you know, there are certain things, if you look at Maslow. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right. Like water and food and sleep and I'm going to put sex are viewed as like at the very base of the triangle. So it's, it's. It's that. It's that like once you're. Yes. Yes to all the things you're saying, Margi. But like when you're depriving people of like basic fundamental human needs.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:04:17] Needs. Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:04:18] How does that. How did. How does that persist over years? So again, it's not me saying that sex is the only.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:04:26] Right. No, I get all the hugging too.
Margi Dehlin [03:04:29] Like.
John Dehlin [03:04:29] Yeah, yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:04:31] Affection is part of that.
John Dehlin [03:04:33] Yeah. Or saying I love you, like that's core stuff.
Margi Dehlin [03:04:37] I feel like it's cumulative. Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:04:38] And I think this, we. I honestly, I think we all just got so good at just shutting off to our own needs. It was about everyone else. What does everyone else need? Not myself self was that's selfish. Like, that's. That's what's going to keep you from going to Zion because you're being too selfish, so you're focusing on yourself too much. So. So that was like, you shut that part of yourself off. I don't need sleep. I probably don't even need to eat. I don't need to process this feeling. Like it was all just like, nope, nope, nope, nope. It's not what we're required to do, so why should I even give that time or attention?
John Dehlin [03:05:14] And do you have any idea if your husband was in conflict with the leadership?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:05:20] Not at this time. It was so out of the blue, like. Like we were carrying on. It was a normal, everyday whatever. And they all got in a vehicle and left. And I'm just sitting there.
John Dehlin [03:05:32] So you didn't get. You were like, sitting with your husband when the letter came and then he read it?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:05:37] No, they were actually called to go into an office where. And the revelation was read to them in person. Oh, so they all left.
John Dehlin [03:05:47] You weren't there.
Margi Dehlin [03:05:47] You were not invited.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:05:48] I was not invited. So. So when they all left to go get this revelation read to them, I was like, thinking, they're going to Zion and I'm not. So I was thinking, I'm getting left behind for other reasons. That's why I wasn't invited.
John Dehlin [03:06:02] You had no idea what you had done?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:06:04] No. And I was like, well, actually I do. The reason I thought maybe I wasn't going is two Sundays before that, I had walked out of church. They said, if you feel like you've done something that is not, like, perfect, perfectly in alignment with what we're teaching you or whatever, what the prophet is requiring of you, then get up and walk out of church, and you can't come back till you're invited.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:06:32] And I had had a lot of just animosity. And I was. The rebellious side of me was starting to come up again, where I was like, there is. There's so much wrong here. I remember walking up to Warren's picture and literally I was just like, I hate you. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I gotta repent. Like. And so during this time, I was like, I should probably walk out of church because I'm not being as faithful as I should be.
Margi Dehlin [03:07:04] Yeah, you're not keeping sweet. Yes.
John Dehlin [03:07:06] So, wow. So you, You. You walking out.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:07:10] Yes. So I thought that deemed me as unworthy and silent.
Margi Dehlin [03:07:13] It's like it identified you.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:07:14] Yes. So I was like, wait, so they're all going to Zion and I Wasn't invited because I had walked out of church. So it was all starting to make sense in my head, and I was. I was spiraling at this point. I was like, okay, well, this is the. Our family is being split up. But I thought it was gonna be so different than it was.
John Dehlin [03:07:33] But they let you keep your kids at this time?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:07:37] Yes. So they came back home, and he said, we need to have a conversation. Let's go into my office. So him and I go in there, and he tells me, me and all of the moms have to leave. We have to be gone by tonight with the kids. Without the kids?
John Dehlin [03:07:54] Oh, what?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:07:54] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:07:55] They were leaving all the kids with you? Yes.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:07:56] So what? Yes. He says, we are trying to make arrangements before we leave of where the. The kids are gonna go, but for now, they have to stay with you until those are all, like, figured out. So they got everything packed up, brought everyone into the living room, told all the kids, like, unbelievable. I haven't recounted this story in a long time because the wailing is just something you don't forget. Just. It's 40 people. Who are just. All the kids don't think they're ever going to see their parents again or hear from them or anything. It was just like. Just a really dark day. You know, We all just. I think that's probably the first time we all hugged each other in years. At that time, it was like we'd all become friends, you know, trauma bonding.
John Dehlin [03:09:45] Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:09:45] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:09:46] And you meaning the wives?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:09:48] Yeah, all the wives had become friends over the years of being a family. And so when you're told our family is basically being disintegrated, like, if we're not a family anymore, within hours and they leave, and the people that they had assigned their children to, you know, over the next few days, come and get their children.
John Dehlin [03:10:19] So the kids were reassigned?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:10:20] Yeah, all the kids were reassigned to different families, except obviously mine stayed with me and I moved into my dad's home.
Margi Dehlin [03:10:31] Just so abusive.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:10:34] Yeah. That's kind of when FLDS started to have its downfall, too. Like, that's when people really started to be like, what is happening? Like, why are they sending these good people? Like, they were good in a. In the sense of what we knew was good, like decent people away for what we thought was the worst crimes you could commit. Like, abortion in flds is like. I mean, you know, it's just so. That's, like, the darkest thing you can do.
John Dehlin [03:11:11] And there were false accusations.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:11:13] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:11:13] And I'm going to just say that's another Thing Joseph Smith did is when, when somebody crossed him, like Oliver Cowdery or John Whitmer, David Whitmer, pretty much all the founding leaders, they would be accused with false accusations and demonized.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:11:31] And this, our family wasn't the only one that went through it that day. There was hundreds of families that were torn apart and, and they were removing adults which, looking back at it now, I'm like, the kids became the target. He had their eye. He had his eye on the children. Forever. To remove adults that can protect children exposes them.
John Dehlin [03:12:02] It's like a pedophile's kingdom.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:12:04] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:12:04] Remove all the parents and you can
Ceci Hendrickson [03:12:06] do whatever you want. No one's going to stop you with the kids.
John Dehlin [03:12:08] Kids.
Margi Dehlin [03:12:08] Yes.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:12:10] Yep. So that's kind of how I see what happened those weeks where families were just torn apart. I moved back into my dad's home and even more now I was like, I am not putting myself in this position to ever go through something like this again.
John Dehlin [03:12:29] Was your dad still a believer in Warren Jeffs at that point?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:12:31] Yes. And he still is to this day. Yes. So. But he was gone on missions too. My dad was still doing the whole be gone for months at a time. I moved into his home. I took a job at my ex's old company. So when my ex was kicked out, he left his big business that he had built to the people who were actually operating it, signed it over to them and I took a job out there at the office because I was like, I'm thinking of leaving. Like deep down I was like, I cannot keep doing this. I just can't. I can't deal with the.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:13:09] It's just so much heartbreak and sadness and darkness and it just, it was starting to really, I don't know, make me question more and more that I didn't want to be there. So I took a part time job out there and over time I got romantically involved with someone who worked there and we got caught. And so they told us like, you can't live in the community anymore.
John Dehlin [03:13:41] Was this someone who was married someone else? He was single?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:13:44] No, he was single, never been married. That was the whole point too, where I was just like, if I'm going to read, write my story, I'm going to do it so different. I want not a man that can commit to me only doesn't have ties or baggage or anything. That's so I, I was very like picky about that part. And so when he, you know, we started to talk and he was there for me during all of this And I honestly at that time thought he was going to be in it for the long game with me.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:14:14] And so I moved out of Colorado City and moved to Cedar City, which is, it's about an hour out north, right? Yeah. And I, I moved there at the time. I took my children with me, but I was still, it wasn't like I was cut off completely, completely just yet. They were still involving me in their daily classes, like calling me, checking on me. The bishop would call, make sure I was staying in line and repenting of all these things. And I just got to be better at hiding it. I didn't stop. I just quit telling them everything.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:14:54] So me and this guy were still like hanging out and we got pregnant and the church found out and they were like, okay, well this is your final straw. And I had my mom and dad come get my kids and I moved in with this guy pregnant with his child in his apartment in Logan for just a few months.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:15:25] And then he was basically like, I never wanted this. Like I don't want this relationship. I don't want any of it. He said, I booked you a one way flight to Colorado. I had a brother that had left previous to me over there in Colorado and he's like, get a hold of him and ask him if you can live with him.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:15:46] And I had not made any kind of contact with him at this time. So I was just like, okay. So I got ahold of my brother and told him, I have a one way flight to Colorado, can I stay with you for a while?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:15:59] And he, he let me. But then I took an insurance job and I was selling insurance all over Colorado, pregnant, sleeping in my car and just trying to make ends meet until I was able to get a place of my own.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:16:17] And about three weeks before I was due to have my fifth child, I finally got an apartment and moved into it and met someone who was a pastor's mother. So her son was a pastor of a very small little church up there in Fort Collins, Colorado.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:16:42] And he, I kind of had told him a little bit of like what I was going through. I was, I had been homeless, pregnant, and I needed to get my four children out of the flds because by this time being out for almost a year, I had woken up to truly the darkness that was hidden behind everything that I had believed in this whole time. I had gone on the Internet, I had done my research and I realized my daughter's coming up on 11 years old.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:17:17] Now knowing that Warren had taken so many 12 year old wives, I was fearful that something like that would happen with my daughter. So I got everything figured out. This pastor helped me. His mother helped me. We got a attorney in Cedar who did my entire case pro bono, and we went out there to Colorado City and basically told my dad, like, you don't have a choice here. You need to give her children back. And at first, he tried to give
John Dehlin [03:17:57] you your children back.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:17:58] Yeah, give me my children back. He tried to fight it at first, and he. You know all the excuses in the book where it was like, what did I do to betray you? Why would you want to take your children out into the world? Like, you're taking them to hell in the hand basket. And I was like, honestly, if I have to go to hell to get my children out of this hell, well, I've made peace with that. Like, you know, it didn't. At that point, I really did not care who I was upsetting. Like, I had some children to get out, and, you know, it wasn't an easy road doing all that. They had been pretty indoctrinated the year and a half that we weren't together, that I was just not a good person. So they were pretty scared and afraid, like, what was I gonna do with them? What was.
Margi Dehlin [03:18:53] Yeah, you had become suspect.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:18:55] Yeah. Like, what was their future? So, you know, the first couple years after getting them back was really just about reassurance and safety, like, proving. Like, I even had my son asked me at one point. He was like, when are. So when are you leaving us again?
John Dehlin [03:19:16] You know, like, because they felt abandoned by you.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:19:19] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:19:20] You didn't abandon them.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:19:21] No.
John Dehlin [03:19:21] You didn't want to abandon them.
Margi Dehlin [03:19:23] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:19:23] But it was like, you were told
John Dehlin [03:19:25] you had to leave them.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:19:26] Yeah. By the. So when the bishop found out I was pregnant, he was. He would call me, like, every week and tell me, like, you need to turn these children over. You need to. You're taking them to hell. Like. And during that time, even though I was having questions, I hadn't completely written off the FLDS church, because I was like, there's just questions. If I can get the answers, then everything might be fine.
Margi Dehlin [03:19:49] That's right. And you were also vulnerable.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:19:52] Very. Yeah, I was.
John Dehlin [03:19:53] And sometimes in your mind, you had messed up.
Margi Dehlin [03:19:55] And that's what I mean by vulnerable. Yeah. Like, more vulnerable to their judgment into what they're saying about you and what they're doing. Kids. What about your kids?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:20:05] To take your kids 100%, so. And, you know, if there's anything that I could ever change. And I always tell women this. Who are trying to get out. I'm like, if there's anything that you can do that I wish I would have, just take your children. It's scary. You might not know where to start. But trying to repair that relationship and undo the abandoned, the abandonment that they feel is so. It's probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And something I just wish I could go back and redo and undo.
John Dehlin [03:21:00] You let the church force you to abandon your kids.
Margi Dehlin [03:21:07] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:21:07] And it's like sometimes I think not let.
John Dehlin [03:21:11] You were under undue influence, right?
Margi Dehlin [03:21:13] Totally.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:21:14] And sometimes I sit there and I think I could have just done that so much differently, but I really didn't know.
Margi Dehlin [03:21:20] But that's you now connected to yourself.
John Dehlin [03:21:23] Yeah. That's what cults do. They have undue influence.
Margi Dehlin [03:21:26] Right. But back then, you were obeying God. You were describing yourself as just like a shell, dissociated, you know, in pain.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:21:39] No, I definitely was. I had no idea, like, who I was or what I wanted in life. I just knew I didn't want to be there. And I definitely didn't want my kids to be there either.
Margi Dehlin [03:21:55] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:21:56] But it was like, in my head, it was the safest place for them while I figured out this world that makes sense. I had no clue about.
Margi Dehlin [03:22:05] That's right.
John Dehlin [03:22:06] Do you know where your ex went with his wife's.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:22:11] Yeah, he. Hold on.
John Dehlin [03:22:13] Because they. They abandoned you.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:22:16] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:22:17] That's the thing.
John Dehlin [03:22:18] You were abandoned by your family.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:22:20] True. You know, I guess the only thing I. I'm like, I was the adult in the situation when I left my children. You know, he went to Idaho for a while and.
John Dehlin [03:22:31] With four of his wives.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:22:33] Yeah, they all lived together, actually, for some time. They don't now. Well, yeah, only one of them does, and the rest have moved on with their lives. So. Yeah, I mean, he went to Idaho for a while. He now lives in Colorado, and he's basically rebuilt his business from square one and is a successful guy again.
John Dehlin [03:23:02] Do you know if he believes in the prophets?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:05] It's very complicated because from what I hear, because, you know, my older kids have somewhat of a relationship with him, but it's very guarded because they don't. They don't want to be convinced to ever believe that way again. But, yeah, he does.
John Dehlin [03:23:22] He's still. He's still a believer.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:25] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:23:25] In Mormon fundamentals, he's still.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:27] He's still somewhat of a believer. Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:23:29] But he lost four of three of his wives. Four of his wives.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:33] Four of them.
John Dehlin [03:23:34] Okay.
Margi Dehlin [03:23:34] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:34] Well, if you're including me? Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:23:36] Do you know if he took new ones?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:38] No.
John Dehlin [03:23:39] Did he keep his first wife? Is that the one who stayed with him?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:41] No, they divorced.
John Dehlin [03:23:42] Oh.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:43] Yeah. It's just one of them.
John Dehlin [03:23:46] Wild.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:23:47] Okay. I don't know. Part of me feels like she stayed because she has nowhere else to go. She doesn't really have family out here or anything. I think it's more of a. Just a familiar place.
John Dehlin [03:24:01] Do you know why the other wives left him?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:24:05] Probably for the sake of freedom. Wanting to have their own relationships and their own life experience. Another thing, too, is the other wives that have left him have children out here. They grew up, left, and they're like, wait, if I want to have a relationship with my children, I can't keep.
John Dehlin [03:24:23] Keep.
Margi Dehlin [03:24:24] Oh, yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:24:25] Yeah. So even though they all left their children, a lot of them are growing up and leaving on their own, and they're like, we want to be in their life. Which, you know, you start waking up to the truth, and you're like the. Waking up to the darkness. I don't know, whatever the FLDS has convinced you of, you start to realize you've literally wasted your life following their rules. For what?
Margi Dehlin [03:24:56] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:24:57] Emptiness, loneliness. Like, there's no. There's no resolve in that.
Margi Dehlin [03:25:04] Yep.
John Dehlin [03:25:06] I wanna. I wanna circle back to your feelings of guilt, but I think.
Margi Dehlin [03:25:14] What.
John Dehlin [03:25:14] What's. I mean, the reason why cults are called cults is because they wield undue influence on their members. And in that sense, the members are victims. Even if they're adults, they're still under undue influence. So why did you leave your kids for a while until you could, number one, you had to get safe and get stabilized because your family had abandoned you.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:25:36] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:25:37] But also, you were under undue influence. So in. In the LDS Church today, in. In the past 20 years, what would often happen is a Mormon would stumble on the Internet and read, you know, a website called the CES Letter or a website called Mormon Think, or they'd stumble on Mormon Stories podcast, and they would start learning about a truthful church history that they had never been taught. Or they would start to be sensitive to the plight of women or racism or abuse. And that would start them down the path of learning about the Mormon Church and its problems. And they'd learn about Peepstone and the hat and the Book of Mormon translation or the Mountain Meadows Massacre or the Kirtland bank scandal.
John Dehlin [03:26:25] And by learning about Joseph Smith's history or the fact that the Book of Mormon had historical problems or scientific problems or the Book of Abraham had historical problems. Or they would learn about Joseph's polygamy.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:26:37] Right? Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:26:38] And then they would say, well, this is a croc. Joseph was a sexual predator. Then they would lose their faith in the religion. How does a FLDS member lose their faith? Because I'm guessing Mormon stories, CES letter learning about Joseph's polygamy. Those things aren't going to take you out of your belief. So what takes an FLDS person out of their belief in the FLDS version of Mormonism? I think, think types of resources, books, websites, whatever.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:27:10] Okay, so I think for, I mean, for me personally, it was. My friend pulled something up on the Internet which was all of the articles and the, everything they found during the YFC branch. Okay.
John Dehlin [03:27:30] What the FBI found.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:27:31] Yes, everything that the FBI found during the, the, the ranch in Texas. And she pulled like, this is all common knowledge. If you just look up flds Texas ranch, you're going to see it all. There's videos, there's all the documents, everything. And at the time it was, I, I, I want to say they've taken this audio down since then, but it was an audio of Warren assaulting a child. And it was so eye opening, I couldn't unhear what I heard. And now, I mean, right now there's more and more people who have left the FLDS who are creating those resources. There's, I want to shout out a girl named Lenora Barlow. She is Warren Jeff's daughter who was one of his scribes at some point. She is sharing everything that she took notes on on the social media platforms.
John Dehlin [03:28:33] What's the website or what's that's her
Ceci Hendrickson [03:28:35] name on social media? Lenora Barlow.
John Dehlin [03:28:37] Okay, we'll write that down in the show notes.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:28:39] Yes, please do. She just started. And I have been. I thought I knew. I thought I knew. And there's still more. I'm just like.
John Dehlin [03:28:47] And when you say it wasn't an audio recording of Warren Jeffs marrying a. No, no.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:28:54] It was the actual assault happening.
John Dehlin [03:28:57] Abusing. Sexually abusing. Was it, Wasn't it in the temple?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:01] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:29:01] And wasn't it like almost part of a weird temple ceremony?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:05] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:29:05] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:06] Yep. And that's when I was like.
John Dehlin [03:29:08] So that's what did it, that's what did it for you?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:10] Yeah, for me. I was like, that will never be my child. That will never be my child. So I, that was when it just clicked for me. I can't do this anymore.
John Dehlin [03:29:19] Do we know the age of that child?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:21] She was, I was 11 or 12.
John Dehlin [03:29:22] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:23] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:29:23] And that was A friend. A friend showed you?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:29:26] Yes, a friend showed me. She was not a part of the flds. She had just come across it somehow. I think she kind of knew where I was from. So she was like, wait, I'll help you do the research. Since I wouldn't look at that time, I wouldn't really look at the Internet. I was like, still trying to decide what I wanted to do. Then she was like, come over to my house. I'm going to show you this stuff. And I did. And I was. After that, I was like, okay, well, part of my mission now is to shed light on these things, and that's why I go on podcasts.
Reckoning With Being a Child Bride
John Dehlin [03:30:01] Like, so you, you were a teenage child bride?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:30:06] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:30:06] So clearly you knew that teenage girls were being taken as brides in the FLDS church. So why was this particular audio troubling when not only were you aware that other teenage brides were being taken all the time, but you were one yourself?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:30:27] I think.
John Dehlin [03:30:28] I don't mean to be coarse.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:30:29] No, I know. Honestly, I think it was the fact that I realized how young this girl was.
John Dehlin [03:30:34] So it was the 12. It was the 11 or 12 year old age.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:30:37] And I get. I was a teenage bride, but I was 16. So in my head I was like, I was older. I was in the stage of life where I could have been doing that with a teenager. You know what I mean? Like, I. I was. My brain was more developed to the point of like, people that age do have sex, right? But an 11 and 12 year old, that is, to me, I'm just like, no, no way. There's no way I could accept that as a child's fate. And in my head I was also thinking, because I was the one that experienced my own experience.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:31:17] I know how it went. I was there. I witnessed it. I processed it the best I knew how. But thinking of an 11 or 12 year old processing what I was hearing was just too much for my brain to accept that it was good. I just could not.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:31:35] I kept thinking of this little girl, after all said and done, like, what went through her head? How did she feel? Like she had to have been so traumatized. I just couldn't. There was just such a big disconnect there. I could not. Yeah, I don't know, maybe at that point my intuition was a little stronger to where I was starting to listen to, like, what I was feeling instead of just shutting it all out. You know, I. I had witnessed where I had listened to and, you know, I'm living in my car. That's Risky. I had to become more aware of myself and what I was doing to be protected.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:32:14] And so around that time, like, I had definitely gotten better at listening to my gut. My, you know, when I felt something was off, like, it's off. We're gonna figure out why that is.
Margi Dehlin [03:32:26] Yeah, yeah.
John Dehlin [03:32:28] So the big. Because you probably would have been. Been okay with a 14 year old getting married or 15. I mean, you were 16. So 14 isn't that far from 16.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:32:37] I mean, maybe, but I do remember my mom, even as a 16 year old, turning to my dad like when I very first was like, I think I want to get married around that age. My mom looked at dad and was like, isn't she too young for that? So in my head I was like, I didn't think anything under 16 was really okay.
John Dehlin [03:32:57] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:32:57] Yeah, I really didn't. And I mean, Even as a 16 year old, I did feel young. I felt very young. But I didn't know it was illegal. I didn't know, I didn't know any of that.
Margi Dehlin [03:33:08] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:33:09] Until I did my research and was like, oh my gosh.
John Dehlin [03:33:11] You didn't know it was illegal for a 16 year old to marry a 30 year old?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:33:16] No, I thought, I thought, why would they do something illegal? Like, why would you put yourself in that situation? Right.
John Dehlin [03:33:23] But.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:33:24] But apparently they didn't really care about that part much.
John Dehlin [03:33:30] Oh my gosh. I'm just. So that's what did it. The audio recording of the 11 or 12 year old. That's why the Internet's so important.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:33:39] Right. I talk about this with one of my friends all the time. I'm like, Google, everything I know I've learned from Google as far as the FLDS and all of that. That and it's, I mean, it's all out there. You just have to look for it.
John Dehlin [03:33:57] But even, you know, I'm making all these ties to Joseph Smith in the modern LDS Church in 2025, they're still telling their members, don't go to the Internet to unapproved sources. So it's very similar. There's Most Mormons in 2025 have never heard of Alyssa Grenfell. They've never heard of Ward radio. They've never heard of Mormon stories. They've never heard of the CES letter. Most Mormons today have never heard of any of this stuff because like you in the FLDS church, they've all been warned to never look at, quote, anti Mormons, never look at unapproved sources. So in that way, the Mormon bubble is in many ways Just as strong as the FLDS bubble in terms of keeping its members from learning things on the Internet.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:34:47] Right. It keeps them. I mean, when you don't know what you don't know, you won't know.
John Dehlin [03:34:53] You don't know what you don't know.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:34:55] Like you're going to continue down the path or believe what you think is true until you're presented with something to compare it to, or maybe that is actually true. And you're like, wait, so all this was just made up stuff like you're not ever going to really know until you have something to compare it to. And that's. I think that's what's so scary for people. Like, oh, I don't dare look on the Internet. Because they know that if they do see something that makes them question the faith that they're following right now, is it going to unravel their entire life? Probably. But it's actually so okay if that happens, like, you're going to be okay. It probably will unravel your life, though. You're going to realize that, that you've been following something that maybe you don't really want to.
Margi Dehlin [03:35:44] And it really just shows also the power of the tactic. I mean, the power of control of information. It's real. It is a tool that is used. And you. Your experience of like, oh, and I had a friend and then I had outside information. And what it did is Case in point.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:36:06] Yeah, it was very eye opening. And from there I kind of, you know, it was shortly after that I met my husband, who I'm married to now.
John Dehlin [03:36:15] Actual husband?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:36:16] Yes, my actual husband. And when I met him, I did not tell him where I was from. I was just like, we're just friends. Like, we can just hang out. I don't want to get deep into my background, whatever. And he ended up finding a picture of me in my long FLDS dress holding my newborn on my chest. And it was a huge blown up picture. And it was behind my couch. And he pulled it out and it was like, what is this?
John Dehlin [03:36:45] Would you have had the hair, the tissue?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:36:47] And I was like, oh, gosh, no, I'm not ready to do this with you. I thought, okay, well, this is the end. Like, he is gonna run for the hills. I'll tell him about it. I don't want to keep secrets. I just didn't want to open Pandora's.
Margi Dehlin [03:37:02] You're like, why start?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:37:04] Yeah, we've been, we've been just fine without this part. And he. So I sat down and I was like, kate, I Have to tell you, I'm actually from a cult. Like, how do you even start telling someone you're interested in dating this story? Like, what? But once I told him, he was so. He's like, let's learn about it.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:37:26] And I was actually, like, surprised how much knowledge he was able to, like, share with me from doing that. Like, we. We did such a deep dive into all of it. And he. Because he just wanted to understand, like, okay, so it's a break off of the LDs, like, all these things. And even more so I was like, wow, okay. There's so much more I didn't know. But I had already gotten my children out of it, so I didn't feel as like, personally threatened by the past as I was. But it was more of just opening your eyes to the knowledge that's out there that in other scenarios you had kind of avoided even looking at. Yeah, yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:38:11] It almost, you know, that moment where your chosen husband, you know, bring. Saw the photo of you. It's almost like, okay, you know, I'd like to introduce you to a past self.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:38:30] I'm like, it's been so long, I promise. I don't even know her anymore. I was so. Yeah, it was definitely a lot like that where. Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:38:39] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:38:40] I just was like, hey, how do you feel? How do you feel about everything I just shared with you? And he was like, I just can't get over the hair. I was like, okay. So ever since then, anytime we're like watching a movie or anything, he'll be like, babe, that looks like. And I'm like, just stop. Just stop. Don't you miss it, though? Like, you could do your hair.
Margi Dehlin [03:39:05] Like, it's proof I was in a conditioned state. I did not know.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:39:09] Like, I would never choose that. Okay.
John Dehlin [03:39:14] I mean, that's funny, but it touches on something like, what is enough abuse or dysfunction to have you realize it's a problem for you. It wasn't being married off at 16 of having your prophet imprisoned for child abuse, of having him admit that he was never the prophet to begin with. Having him tell all the people, no more sex. But not only no more sex, no more hugging, no more I love you's
Margi Dehlin [03:39:45] living for years in isolation in Vegas.
John Dehlin [03:39:48] Can't go outside reassigning men or wives to other families. That none of that was it. Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:39:56] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:39:57] Having your own kids taken from you.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:39:59] I think that was kind of my breaking point though.
John Dehlin [03:40:01] But I mean, even then, it was. It wasn't. That wasn't your break. It was Lee. It helped contribute to It. But it wasn't until, like, you had a friend show. Play the audio clip. Like, until then, you're kind of just like, well, I don't know, like, am
Ceci Hendrickson [03:40:16] I gonna go back? Like, yeah.
John Dehlin [03:40:19] And like, you even said your. Your ex, after all, that is still kind of a believer.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:40:24] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:40:26] So, like, it's just so much power and control and abuse.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:40:32] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:40:33] So much suffering. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:40:35] And, you know, it's being on the other side of it as someone that's fully awake where you're like, wow, that was. That was a trip. Like, what happened? And sometimes I'm like, it's almost hard for me to understand how I let myself go on that long, where I'm just like, did I ask for that? Like, did I. Did I contribute to my own suffering? Because I just. You know what I mean? Like, you start asking yourself these questions. You're like, was I. Did I actually notice something was off much sooner and I didn't, like, do something about it? Could I have done something about it? And I just didn't like, you know, you ask yourself all these questions and try to make sense of it, but at the end of the day, I feel like sometimes there isn't making sense of it.
Margi Dehlin [03:41:25] Yeah, that's right.
John Dehlin [03:41:26] Right.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:41:26] It's just letting it be for what it is. Letting it be for what it is and just, you know, accepting that once you know better, you do better. And
John Dehlin [03:41:42] I don't know, I mean, from our. From an LDS point of view, we just see all FLDS people as victims. And like, of course it's not your fault. You were raised in this extreme cult that was horrific and abusive and insular. But then plenty of people see LDS people that way. You know what I mean? But we don't see ourselves that way. We're like, oh, no, we weren't in a cult. We're a happy, family friendly church. You know what I mean? It's those FLDS people that were in this weird, abusive cults. You know what I mean?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:42:19] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:42:20] But then you're questioning whether you were at fault or complicit,
Margi Dehlin [03:42:26] which is very. It reminds me of the doctrines itself and how it works that you are. You're always feeling like it's you. It's never. We're always responsible.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:42:38] Right.
Margi Dehlin [03:42:39] It's not the people actually in power wielding the power that are responsible. And that's by design, you know? Know, I just wonder if there's room or if you have space in yourself that you actually consider that you saved yourself and by saving yourself, you were able to Save your children years and years like you had in it.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:43:03] Yeah, and sometimes I do where I'm like, you know, I had to.
Margi Dehlin [03:43:08] I.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:43:08] Sometimes I think I had more guts back then than I do now, where I'm like, I had to have some guts to go stand up to my dad and be like, dad, you're giving my kids back. That was scary. I was shaking in my boots. Like, that was. You know, that was not comfortable. And even taking a hard, good look at the evidence that was presented to me and being like, I needed. What is this? I need to see what this is. I remember after my friend did show me all the evidence that she showed me, I stayed up all night that next. That night, and just. I mean, I was researching everything I needed to know. Like, after that first little inkling of, like, whoa, this is so messed up, I had to keep digging.
John Dehlin [03:43:54] And again, about Warren Jeffs, right?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:43:55] Yes. Yes. It was all about Warren Jeffs and the FLDS and the things that were coming to light after that raid. And I had just guarded my eyes and my heart from all of it for so long that I did feel guilty deep, deep diving into all of it, where I was like, am I. Am I doing something that I will never come back from in a bad way? But now looking at it, I'm like, I never did come back from it. And it was for the best. Like, the best reasons. I. I needed to gain more knowledge and understand what. What the FLDS was before I could even take that next step of going and getting my kids. Like, what was the purpose of me fighting for them if I didn't have the knowledge of what was happening there?
Margi Dehlin [03:44:43] That's right.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:44:44] You know, so, yeah, to answer your question, I do. Sometimes I'm like, well, I did have to literally save myself so that I could save my family, 100%.
Margi Dehlin [03:44:57] And as you're describing that process, particularly the night of, you know, pouring over the information, like, I'm curious. I feel like there are times when I would say that learning data would actually like the data of what was happening. And I can so see this. With regard to Warren Jeffs, did you feel like you had to actually reconstruct reality for yourself? You were like, wait a second. I thought it was this, but in fact, it was this. This. It's literally like constructing maybe reality for the first time, realizing that what you had been living in was not.
Reconstructing Reality and Beginning to Heal
Ceci Hendrickson [03:45:38] Yeah, 100%. I definitely went through that where I was. It was almost like I had to take the reality that I knew and that I had lived and make a timeline of like when I thought something was a certain way versus is what it actually was at that time. And be like, okay, where's the comp? Like when did this happen? So while I was in Colorado City or Las Vegas trying to prove myself worthy to go to Zion, he was over here doing this to underage 1112 year old girls. Like, okay, so that's really messed up. And then, you know, it's like you have to make this timeline to almost recreate what you thought was what actually was. So yes, a hundred percent. And I even did this again pretty recent, I want to say in the last year or so when the show
John Dehlin [03:46:34] Keep Sweet Pray and Obey, it was
Ceci Hendrickson [03:46:35] either that one or Something Evil.
John Dehlin [03:46:41] It was an FLDS documentary. Basically.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:46:46] Something evil. I don't remember. It has a big red hand coming out of the ground and it has a bunch of FLDS girls sitting on the middle of it. It.
John Dehlin [03:46:51] Well, at Brooklyn Cut up.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:46:52] Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's a. That show. One of those show Keep Sweet Praying or and Obey or that other one. And they basically told the story about all the things that Warren Jess was up to. Like where he went to Marty. The Marty Gross party. Vegas strip clubs.
John Dehlin [03:47:12] He was going to strip clubs?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:47:13] Yes. When he was doing all this insane stuff, like when he was on the
John Dehlin [03:47:18] run from the law. And by the way, Joseph Smith was on the run from the law because he was constantly being chased.
Margi Dehlin [03:47:24] It's just.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:47:24] See what I mean? Like the two stories are just. I have a hard time not comparing the storylines to each other.
John Dehlin [03:47:32] Oh, well, that's because there's parallel.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:47:34] Yeah, like there's a lot of similarities there. But when I realized that he was doing all of this stuff when I was watching this show, I was like, hey, where was I? What was I doing? Like, I was literally trying so hard to become like this perfect saint so that I could be called to go to this place where everyone thought they wanted to go. And meanwhile he's out doing all these forbidden things. It's like you really just have to. That's right, like recreate your own, like reality.
John Dehlin [03:48:07] And so there's Warren Jeff's prophet of evil. Is that the.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:48:10] Yes. Does it have the red hand?
John Dehlin [03:48:12] I'll have to look, but I'm just googling. I don't see a red hand on this one.
Margi Dehlin [03:48:18] But there is a hand.
John Dehlin [03:48:19] There's a hand.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:48:20] Oh, maybe it's not a red hand.
John Dehlin [03:48:21] Prophet of evil. Warren Jeff's prophet of evil.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:48:24] Yeah, I think that's it.
John Dehlin [03:48:25] Okay. Anyway, so you had to part of your healing was to recreate the timeline of what was really going on that was kept from you. And then re. Imagine where you were at the different points of the timeline and then to re. Experience the abuse you were experiencing while. While understanding what Warren just was actually doing during the time you were allowing yourself and your family to be abused.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:49:04] Right. And the part of the reason it healed. It was healing for me, was when you're taught that all your feelings around a certain thing are just, they're bad, you shouldn't have them, and you had them during those times, and then you realize the evil that was actually happening behind it all. Then you're like, wait, so everything that I was feeling about this was so valid, even if I didn't know the reason behind it. And that's kind of what I used to help me, like, understand the feelings that I had about a certain thing or time. Yeah, yeah.
John Dehlin [03:49:45] Just. There's several. There's Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey. There's preaching evil. A wife on the run with Warren Jeffs. There's prophets Pray.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:49:55] Preaching evil.
John Dehlin [03:49:56] Preaching evil is the one.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:49:58] I think it's preaching evil, the one that I was referring to.
John Dehlin [03:50:02] Okay. Yeah. There's so many.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:50:05] Yeah, there's a lot of Prisoner of
John Dehlin [03:50:07] the Prophet, Warren Jeff's Prophet of Evil. Wow. There's been like 10 documentaries on Warren Jeffs, which makes sense, I guess.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:50:14] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:50:15] Okay, really quickly, did you. Did you even have to deconstruct Joseph Smith in the Book of Mormon? Because even if, even if you decided that Warren Jeffs was a fallen prophet, you still had to contend with the fact that you believed in the restoration that God called Joseph Smith to be a prophet. The Book of Mormon was the word of God. Or did you just not have to process that because it was really all about Warren?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:50:47] I've had this question asked to me before, and the way someone worded it recently was how did you throw the bathwater? Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:50:55] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:50:55] How did you. How did you do that?
John Dehlin [03:50:57] Joseph Smith's the baby and the bathwaters. Warren jets, is that right?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:51:00] Pretty much. And I. Well, here's the thing. When their stories align the way that they do, where they're so similar, it's almost for me personally has been a no brainer where I'm like, well, I don't even need to process the whole story of Joseph Smith because I already know how I feel about how Warren did it. I already know how I feel about underage marriage or the plural wife. Like, I just. It was already processed in it from the Beginning. I didn't really have to separate the two. It was just.
John Dehlin [03:51:40] Okay. Well, okay. And yes, I'm seeing it now. It's preaching evil. A Peacock original.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:51:46] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:51:47] That's the documentary you're talking about. Thank you. Brooklyn. Brooklyn checked.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:51:51] Thank you.
Comparing FLDS and Early Mormon Polygamy
John Dehlin [03:51:53] Is it fair to say that this is obvious and we've been building this case, I think, the whole episode. But I'm just going to ask you point blank, is it fair to compare Joseph Smith with Warren Jeffs or is it because a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints would tell you there's no comparison. Warren Jeffs was a horrible child abusing maniac. Joseph Smith was a loving family man, good man who had to do polygamy against his will. That's kind of how Mormons look at Joseph Smith today. But they don't see Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs being even in the same universe. What's your take?
Ceci Hendrickson [03:52:35] Warren Jeffs was also a very loving, kind, well spoken man. Most people didn't really see the other side of him unless they were extremely close. So as far as what the people saw was that same thing. He, he was charismatic. He knew how to make you feel like you were the only person in the room. Like, he, he really was good at that. And so that's where I'm like, I knew Warren Jeffs. I knew of him. I knew how he was to the people.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:53:07] And a lot of people who say Joseph Smith was that same way, but do they really know who he was behind closed doors? Like, do they really know the darkness that he carried to even bring polygamy out and, and write the revelations? So yeah, sometimes I'm like, we do. I compare them to each other because I do see similarities.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:53:28] And I, I know it's like probably hard for people to hear that because they're like, I mean, Warren Jeffs is a twisted maniac. Like, he probably took things quite a few steps further than Joseph Smith did, like, obviously. But, but at the same time, like Joseph Smith saying, I had to do this. Why? Why did he have to take wives? Why did he have to marry teenage brides? What I want to know the reason behind that.
John Dehlin [03:53:59] Like, well, he told people an angel threatened to kill him if he didn't do it.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:54:03] It right. Well, and I, Warren Jeffs has the same stories, like where he's like, well, I'm doing the, the Lord's will, the Lord told me to do this. And the Lord, you know, it's all in the name of God. And so that's where I'm like, it's. I don't know. I think there are definitely some similarities there.
John Dehlin [03:54:23] I mean, teenage brides, like, getting money and power.
Margi Dehlin [03:54:33] Prison.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:54:34] Yes. Taking wives from other men to make your own. I mean. Yeah, that's. I mean, Warren Jeffs did that on a major scale. Major. His father died, and then within two weeks, he had married so many.
John Dehlin [03:54:49] Yeah. Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:54:50] Like, you know what I mean?
John Dehlin [03:54:51] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:54:51] It's just. I don't know. I think. I think there are similarities there for sure.
John Dehlin [03:54:59] For you. Meaningful similarities.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:55:01] Yes.
John Dehlin [03:55:02] Yeah. So your belief in Joseph died along with your belief in Warren.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:55:08] Yeah.
John Dehlin [03:55:08] Jeff's.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:55:09] Yeah. That doesn't mean my belief in God died, though. I still definitely believe in that. I have found my own way to believing that. You know, at first I was like, are they all the same. Are they all the same thing? Like, are they all. You know, how do you.
John Dehlin [03:55:28] You.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:55:28] When you're basically threatened by God your entire life, it's like, how do you. How do you believe that he's. That there's a good. There's a good God or someone that actually does have your best interest at heart. But throughout my experience, it's like, there's been so many parts of it that I know God was there for me, you know, but as far as, like, Joseph Smith goes, I. Yeah. My belief for that whole thing is it just pretty much went away with the flds.
John Dehlin [03:56:05] Well, honestly, I can't believe you're sitting here, but I can't believe you walked in today. The level of trauma and abuse that you've experienced is unimaginable.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:56:27] You know, sometimes when I look. Look at the entirety of the story, of the story that I've been through and everything, it's hard for me to even comprehend it myself because I have almost taken myself out of it. And sometimes I'll even think it wasn't quite. I think sometimes that I downplay the trauma of it all and think maybe, like, yeah, it was traumatic, but was it as bad as it felt in my head when I was going through it or after I went through it? But when I think of someone else going through this, like, if I was listening to someone else's story, and I do on occasion, then I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, you went through that. That's crazy. But. But because it was me experiencing it, I sometimes have a hard time believing that it was that much. You know, I don't know if it was.
Margi Dehlin [03:57:25] Yeah. I wonder if it's almost like a psychological buffer where you're, like, trying to
Ceci Hendrickson [03:57:31] make it not as bad. So you feel better about it or can make peace with it, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Margi Dehlin [03:57:38] I mean, that's a lot of heaviness to sort of walk around with day to day. When you have children, you're still raising and moving around.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:57:48] Yeah. And you don't want to reflect that. Any of that onto your children. You want them to be able to walk through life with, you know, the simple things, the beauty of life, and just experiencing it for what it is and not some indoctrination that you've put on them.
Margi Dehlin [03:58:07] Yeah. That reminds me of something you mentioned in your outline about the present moment. You were talking about something to the. I feel like that had to do with that. That's been an important part of rebuilding. And you kind of. Do you want to say anything about that?
Recovery, Identity, and Life After the FLDS
Ceci Hendrickson [03:58:29] Yeah. I can't remember exactly what I said. I remember I thought about those answers quite a bit, and I feel like
Margi Dehlin [03:58:35] it comes up because that's a way where. When we're more present in the moment, we're with our children.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:58:42] Yes.
Margi Dehlin [03:58:43] We're not with our story. We're not with our. Our history. Right. That's why it kind of came to me. Well, of course, that. That makes sense.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:58:52] Yeah. It's been something I very have, like, very consciously have put at the forefront of. Pretty much everything I do is trying to be more present, like, especially with my own children. Because there are so many moments that are missed when you're so wrapped up in what you went through or, you know, just life in general, too. It's so you can just get so involved in everything else, and you're missing out on those little things that seriously develop and affect our children going forward.
Ceci Hendrickson [03:59:29] And by being. Learning how to be more present, getting out into nature with my children is part of what healed us all together. And I've even asked my children recently as they're growing up, because the four that were left behind are now 21 to 15, so they're much older now. And we have those random, deep conversations, and they've told me multiple times, like, our best memories after we got out of the FLDS was when we would go, like, up on Cedar Mountain or go to the lake, and we would just all hang out and just be there with each other. There was no distractions. And it's kind of made me take a step back and just want to be more present in every aspect of life.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:00:20] And I'm not always the best at it. There's times when I'm like, hey, I'm getting swallowed up into life, maybe out of avoidance in some ways, where I don't want to feel a certain thing and if it's gonna trigger a past memory or whatever. But I think being present has been just a huge part of that healing for sure.
Margi Dehlin [04:00:43] Right?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:00:44] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [04:00:44] It's such a balance, isn't it? I feel. Because I feel like you don't want to use presence as an escape or an avoidance. Like there is something to processing, right?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:00:57] Yes.
Margi Dehlin [04:00:59] What we go through. And yet also, you can't just straight up process. It's too heavy. So you need some presence and you need breaks from that. And so it's such a balance. How else would you talk about, I guess, you know, what direction I want to go in is connection with yourself, how have you rebuilt your sense of self and getting to know kind of what you enjoy, what you. Especially afterwards when you. You went through such a disconnected state for so long, what does it look like for you? I.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:01:37] There's. There's several ways I do this because I. For so long, my whole entire identity was chosen for me, and it was a mother and a wife. And I'm not saying those are bad things, but I think that if you choose those things on your own accord, you can show up so much differently than, like, a woman in the FLDS would.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:01:59] And so, you know, those little things where I do, I'm like, okay, what. Who am I? What do I want? What. What is even? You know, a lot of it has been, like, getting up a little earlier than my family and just really just sitting with myself. And then that's where that coffee comment came in. Like, having a warm drink and just sitting with myself and being like, you know, where am I at in life? What. What does life feel like right now? Am I happy? Do I feel. Is there, you know, a missing piece? Do I need more fulfillment here or. Yeah, do I need to start over here?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:02:36] And in that. In the process of all of that, I've also found, like, other things that light me up. Like, I own a creative studio where I do creative work for brands and people. And that.
Margi Dehlin [04:02:49] That's.
John Dehlin [04:02:49] That's your main day job?
Margi Dehlin [04:02:51] Yes.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:02:51] I love that. Tell us more about that. It's a creative studio, so I work with lifestyle, like luxury brands. So let's say one of my clients is like a glamping resort. So I'll go and I'll stay out there for a day or two and just get content of their space.
John Dehlin [04:03:08] So a nice camera.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:03:10] Yeah, yeah. So. And it gives me time to just connect with, like, what's around me. And it's kind of a. I never really viewed it as a way of healing until I had been doing it for a while, and I was like, wait. Every time I'm in my element doing this, it's like I'm taking notice of the little things that people otherwise wouldn't really pay attention to. And that's been like, this past year. It's grown exponentially. And I've been so grateful, but it's healed me a lot, just being able to get into my creative zone and just be there doing my work. And. Yeah, it's so crazy to me. Like I said, I never really realized that it was healing me the way that it was, but it took me out of being mom, wife, all the things that I've been from 16 years old up until now.
Margi Dehlin [04:04:01] Absolutely.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:04:02] And given me.
John Dehlin [04:04:03] Well, you were a mom. Mom before you go.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:04:07] When I was 12 years old, you were a child.
Margi Dehlin [04:04:09] Mom, even.
John Dehlin [04:04:11] I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:04:12] No, totally. You're totally right. And so it's like I've been. My identity has been wrapped up in this, you know, being a mother, a wife, which I have found so much joy. And I love being those things in my current life right now. But it's like something that I am building that mine. That is not tied to any of that.
Margi Dehlin [04:04:36] Yes. It's your own.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:04:37] Something completely different. And I've now, like, partnered with my oldest daughter, so she. Her and I go and we do these things together now. And it's had the same, like, effect on her where we just. We're just able to be present and create together. And it's been. That's probably one of the biggest things, I think, that has helped me get in touch with other parts of me that I, in the past have just, like, abandoned and not even thought of because, I mean, you just didn't. In the flds. Who has time to take notice of those little things? You're so busy and wrapped up in, like, what you're doing that you.
Margi Dehlin [04:05:17] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:18] Don't even notice. So.
Margi Dehlin [04:05:20] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:21] Yeah.
Margi Dehlin [04:05:22] It's beautiful.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:23] Thank you. So
John Dehlin [04:05:28] what's the name of your business? Do you want it or do you want to even say?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:31] We can say it.
Margi Dehlin [04:05:32] It's.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:32] It's called Pink Valor.
John Dehlin [04:05:33] Okay. Valor V A L O R. Yes. Pink Valor.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:37] Yep.
John Dehlin [04:05:38] And you do social media?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:39] Do social media, multimedia, content creation, YouTube, editing, just all of it.
John Dehlin [04:05:46] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:46] Yeah.
John Dehlin [04:05:47] How long you been doing that for?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:48] A year.
John Dehlin [04:05:49] Oh, wow.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:05:49] Yeah. Yeah. It started well. Pink Valor's been developed For a year. I started a long time ago just doing it on my own, like, my own page. I would just do content and stuff, but I got to where I was like, wait, this could be so much bigger and I can do it from anywhere with, you know, with or without my children there. Like, it doesn't.
Margi Dehlin [04:06:12] Yeah.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:06:13] So it just made sense to build something out of it.
John Dehlin [04:06:18] Okay. And then you also talk about, like, one of the ways people heal from trauma is to turn their difficult experiences into the service of others, to help inspire or inform or support other people going through hard things. Do you want to talk about how you've done that?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:06:38] Yes.
John Dehlin [04:06:38] How that's helped you?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:06:40] Yes. I want to say three or four years ago, I opened up. Up about my story on social media and started to just. It was mostly just small clips, little pieces here and there. And the feedback that I got was overwhelming. I was shocked. I had no. I went so very. Like, I've been viral multiple times because of it and connected with so many women who are either still in cults or abusive relationships or have just left and don't know what to do. And. And it really opened my eyes to how lonely I felt when I was going through all of that. And not. Honestly, at the time, I thought I was the only one in the world who had ever left something so messed up.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:07:28] Like, I was. There's, like, no way anyone else in the world has ever experienced this or is dumb enough to have stayed as long. You know, I was kind of beating myself up. Like, I'm alone in this. Like, there's no way anyone else would have put up with it that long. And when I opened up about it,
John Dehlin [04:07:46] you're like, I'm the dumbest person in
Ceci Hendrickson [04:07:47] the world, kind of.
John Dehlin [04:07:48] You know what I mean?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:07:49] Yeah. Like, why would I have done that? And so when I opened up about it on social media and I got the feedback that I got, just hundreds of messages daily, and I was like, whoa, what? What? And there were women. Like, because of you, I was finally able to save up money. And I finally got out of this situation or whatever, and I was just. Just blown away by it. Like, I had no idea that this little story that I was just randomly sharing was impacting people like that.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:08:21] So I started. I kind of just kept at doing that for a while, and then it got to where I was getting threatened by. You name it, there's a number of people. Like, there was a group that supposedly protects children from trafficking and stuff, and I would get threatened by members of these kinds of Groups because I was complicit in leaving my children in the flds, even though I had already gotten them out. Like, the messages and stuff I would get were about that, like, how I needed to be reported to authorities. And it got to be a bit much at the time, so I just stopped it all for a while.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:09:02] But I'm coming back now quite a bit more where I've. I guess I've grown a thicker skin over the years, where I'm just like, it doesn't matter. Like, there's going to be people that have opinions, and none of it is going to matter.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:09:15] And I. We launched a podcast. I launched it with another girl from the flds. It's called Her Audacity. And we've been doing it, I want to say, for five months now at most. And that's kind of the direction that I've, you know, taken that trying to make an impact and help people understand, like, their experience and everything is through the podcast. And we've had lots of really interesting guests come on who have experienced something similar. But the main focal point of our podcast on Her Audacity is redemption stories. Like, what have you built? Like, what beautiful life have you created after all of this? You know, because there's always. There's always more after. It doesn't just stop with your trauma.
Margi Dehlin [04:10:09] That's right.
John Dehlin [04:10:11] Do you have any idea how many men and women are still living as believers of Warren Jeffs and the FLDS church?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:10:20] I wouldn't have a number.
John Dehlin [04:10:22] Is it a thousand? Is it 10,000? Is it 20,000?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:10:25] I don't know. It's got to be in the Thousands, not just 8,000. Right.
John Dehlin [04:10:29] Could be tens of thousands.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:10:30] Yeah, it very well could be. I know that there's a lot of people who have left. They have reestablished themselves. Gosh. In South Dakota. They have reestablished themselves in South Dakota
John Dehlin [04:10:46] and probably other places.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:10:48] Yeah, I'm sure. Like, that's the one I know of. And I've also had to.
John Dehlin [04:10:51] I've heard Montana. I've heard Wyoming. I've heard Canada.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:10:55] Yes. I was going to say, I've had people message me on social media, actually, and say, hey, so there's a house not too far down from where I live, and I see polygamists, flds, polygamists coming in and out of it. Like, should I report them to the authorities? And I'm like, just keep an eye on them. If it's obviously underage girls coming and going, I probably would, because let's. That could be a trafficking situation. Yes. And I don't agree with that at all. It's so difficult, though, because it's like if they're all adults and that's where they live, reporting to the authorities, all that's going to do is they're going to move, they're going to hide better. It's really difficult how to, how to handle a situation like that. So, yeah, I'm not sure the number, but I know there's stations everywhere and
John Dehlin [04:11:46] is it even possible to help wake an FLDS person up these days, or are they just in such a bubble and is their information so controlled and are they under such undue influence that like, they've just got to fight their way out and there's really nothing any of us could do like create an FLDS Stories podcast or even your podcast. Do you, do you think that social media stuff can reach flds people in 2025 and beyond?
Reaching Others Still Inside and Family Contact
Ceci Hendrickson [04:12:18] It's difficult to say because I have had messages from some who are technically still in and they'll say things like, why are you spreading lies? And, you know, and so it's, it's difficult to say if it reaches them. Like, obviously it reaches them because I'm getting, you know, I've gotten replies. But is it reaching them in a way of like a wake up? Or is it like you, we talked about this before, where it's like, you're presented with the truth, but you're like, no, that's not true because it's not what you were taught your whole life.
John Dehlin [04:12:48] Yeah. You know, and so anti Mormon.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:12:51] Yes, same thing here. And so I honestly, sometimes I think that if they see the right thing at the right time, then maybe it'll trigger like a, you know, maybe I should look into that. But I've also seen family members of my very own family get almost to the point of leaving and then something will happen within the flds and they're like, cut off everyone. We don't want anything to do with you. Do not contact me. And it's like, we don't know what those things were, like, what they were told, what made them resort back to that. So it's, it's hard to say if any of these resources are, would actually help someone make the choice of leaving. I think they would have to be already out looking for the information or the truth of what was actually going on.
John Dehlin [04:13:43] How much are you in contact with your parents and siblings? How many of them are out versus in?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:13:47] If you're able to share, yes. So I have. My dad is still very much in and involved. And he had four wives in the flds. He has two still living with him and then the other two. One being my mom. I'm very much involved with her.
John Dehlin [04:14:06] Your mom left your dad?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:14:07] Yes.
John Dehlin [04:14:08] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:14:08] Yes, my mom left my dad. I don't know which year. It's been a while, so I want to say probably eight years, maybe even 10 years since they've left.
John Dehlin [04:14:20] He was his first.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:14:21] Yes. She was his first wife.
John Dehlin [04:14:24] Did her sister stay?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:14:26] Yes.
John Dehlin [04:14:27] Whoa.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:14:28] Yep. Yeah. That's the sad part is, you know, I. I think that my mom had hoped that her leaving would also influence her sister to leave as well, but I. That's not how it turned out.
John Dehlin [04:14:42] Dang.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:14:43] Yeah. So I'm, you know, very much involved with my mom. I go see her down in St. George often, and I have seven sisters or six sisters maybe in the seventh, I think. Yeah. So there's seven of us and four brothers who are.
John Dehlin [04:15:01] This is from your biological mom?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:15:03] No, one brother and one sister are from my mom's sister.
John Dehlin [04:15:09] Okay. Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:15:10] Yeah. And the rest are all my mom's kids that have all left.
John Dehlin [04:15:13] Oh, okay. So you're saying a good seven and nine siblings.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:15:18] Yeah.
John Dehlin [04:15:18] Well, between your mom and your.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:15:20] Yes.
John Dehlin [04:15:21] Other. My mom have left, which means another 15 have stayed.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:15:29] Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, he had his other. You know, his other wives, whatever. And there's several of their kids that are still in, and even a couple of my mom's kids are in as well that didn't want to leave with her.
John Dehlin [04:15:44] I don't know how any parent stays in a church when their kid has left the church for good reason. Reason. You know what I mean?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:15:50] I know. It's. It's always very confusing to me as well, because I'm like, you're choosing. You're choosing this church over relationships with your children, and some of it is your grandchildren as well. Which, I mean, I guess if they think that they're on there. I guess if they think that they're on their, you know, straight and narrow and the righteous path, then they have justification for staying. Like. Like they don't want to throw their salvation away, and they think that their children are doing so. It's such a.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:16:23] It's such a complicated situation in any way that you look at it. Whether it's the parents leaving or the children leaving, there's just this middleman which happens to be, you know, in prison, telling everyone how to live their life. Like, even recently, he's, like, reassigned his own son to basically take the leave on the people and so now a lot of people are starting to follow this. His son, who's.
John Dehlin [04:16:51] What's he named?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:16:52] Helaman Jeffs.
John Dehlin [04:16:53] Helen Jeffs is leading the FLDS church. I didn't know that.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:16:57] Yeah. So he's assigned him as the new leader or whatever, but I still think that there's revelations coming from Warren Jeffs through, like. And then he's giving them to Helaman
John Dehlin [04:17:08] and having him just, like, with his debt.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:17:10] Yes, yes. So, yeah. So right now that's kind of who's leading the whole situation is this boy guy. I guess he's a man now, but
John Dehlin [04:17:18] Helam and Jeffs and where in Texas?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:17:21] In South Dakota, I think.
John Dehlin [04:17:23] Okay.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:17:23] Yeah.
John Dehlin [04:17:24] Dang.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:17:25] Yeah.
John Dehlin [04:17:27] Just wild. All right, well, there's so much we could talk about, but you've been so generous with your time, and we're so touched and moved. I think Margi agrees for sure with how powerful and inspiring your story is. Before we end, we. Well, is there anything else you want to. Well, I'll ask this at the end. So we've recently started asking a few questions as we end all interviews just to kind of end on a.
Margi Dehlin [04:18:02] It's lighter.
John Dehlin [04:18:02] Fairs, lighter, happy, positive note.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:18:05] I get you. I'm like, please, that saved me.
John Dehlin [04:18:08] It's too much. So what is a book, podcast, TV show you have enjoyed lately? That's the first question.
Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Reflections
Ceci Hendrickson [04:18:15] Okay. I don't even remember what I wrote. It could be different.
John Dehlin [04:18:17] You wrote Her Audacity. That's your podcast. And then Roswell and Ransom Canyon. What are those?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:18:24] Okay. Yes. So Roswell. Okay.
John Dehlin [04:18:27] Sounds about UFOs.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:18:29] Yes, it is. It's kind of a.
John Dehlin [04:18:32] A.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:18:34] It's kind of a love story, but it also is like. I don't know. I like those kind of shows because it brings reality and fiction together, and it's a good escape for when you need to just kind of zone out of your life for a minute.
John Dehlin [04:18:51] So Roswell and Ransom Canyon.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:18:53] Yeah, Ransom Canyon is also. It's kind of similar, actually. They're kind of similar shows. They're both in smaller towns based on love stories.
John Dehlin [04:19:05] You like romances?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:19:06] I guess. I guess if I'm watching them by myself, then yes. Those are the ones I pick when I'm watching them with my husband. They're all action or military, since he's a military guy.
John Dehlin [04:19:18] Okay, next question is, who is someone you admire, a hero, or. Or someone you look up to, and why? I think you wrote your children.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:19:29] I know I was gonna say that. Definitely my children. They have all. They're all just so unique in their own way and, you know, have shown me different parts of myself in. In all of our healing and journeys. You know, each one of them require something different from me. And they've just been my little lights, I guess, in the world.
John Dehlin [04:19:53] So that's beautiful. Valid. You write that they own businesses and are following dreams.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:19:59] Yes. So. Well, that's my daughter, so she owns Pink Valor with me. And my son is he. He works with his dad, actually right now, so he's learning all about the ins and outs. And I think it's great because, I mean, let's be honest, his dad is a great business businessman. And I think learning how to do that at a young age is setting yourself up for a good future. And so I encourage it for sure.
John Dehlin [04:20:28] Are you glad your kids aren't being raised flds?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:20:32] Yes. I've asked them recently, I said if you were ever presented with the opportunity to go back, would you? And it's a definite no from all of them.
John Dehlin [04:20:44] It's a heck no.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:20:45] Yeah, it's a no.
John Dehlin [04:20:46] What is something that has been lighting you up lately. You wrote a couple things. You wrote long walks, coffee, creative days, and deep conversations.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:20:56] Yes. And those are all definitely like, you know, I take my long walks in the morning. Well, right now the weather in Wyoming isn't the greatest, but the long walks in Wyoming were during the summer were my go to. And then coffee, early morning coffee, having my time to think, creating creative days are. I kind of explain those. What? Those are just spending time making content and noticing all the details and deep conversations. Deep conversations like the one today. But this one's a little heavy. This one's a little heavy.
John Dehlin [04:21:39] I'm sorry.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:21:40] It's okay. I mean, it's part of it, right?
John Dehlin [04:21:43] Yeah. Well, you're helping a lot.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:21:46] Thank you.
John Dehlin [04:21:48] All right, well, any final messages or words you want to share and specifically, I guess to people who have come out of a cult or a high demand religion or who are in one and trying to figure out what to do. Any final words?
Ceci Hendrickson [04:22:03] Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing from, you know, someone who has been in a cult is, I mean, if, if this reaches someone that's in that situation, I think not being afraid of looking outside of what you've been taught and being okay if it's not this, you know, what you thought was the end all be all. Like, it's scary to, to look into information that, that you were told not to. But if you're not afraid to look into it, you might just realize that there's so much more to life than all of that. I think that's really it.
John Dehlin [04:22:49] Don't look. So the conventional wisdom is don't look behind the curtain.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:22:54] Right.
John Dehlin [04:22:54] But you're saying look behind the curtain.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:22:56] I'm saying look behind the curtain. And honestly, I know that they say this a lot in the Mormon Church, like, put things on the shelf. They use it. That term in flds a lot. And I think sometimes it's okay to just not do that. And, like, if you. If it's something that you are being told to put up on the shelf, go ahead and take a look at why you should be doing that.
John Dehlin [04:23:17] Like, that's a red flag.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:23:19] Yeah. Why are you being told to do that? Like, you should probably see, like, go find the answers. And if at the end of the day you still are, like, okay, I believe in this, that's even better. All it'll do is strengthen your testimony and what you already believe. But if it's not true, then that's when you, you know, all your questions will probably get answers, too.
John Dehlin [04:23:43] So if somebody says, don't read that or don't learn that or stay away from this source of information, that's what. It's a red.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:23:50] Yes. Red flag. Yeah, Red flag. Go look into it and see what it's all about. There's nothing. There's nothing wrong with knowledge. In fact, I think we need to be educated about what we're believing in.
Margi Dehlin [04:24:03] Yeah. Yeah.
John Dehlin [04:24:04] Well, I hope your podcast is super successful and I hope your book. Hope your book is, once you write it and publish it, is super successful as well.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:24:12] Thank you. I'm excited.
John Dehlin [04:24:15] Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on Mormon Stories. Cece Hendrickson. And again, tell people how to find you or contact you.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:24:26] Yes. I have loved being on your podcast. If anyone wants to look me up, I'm on Instagram, CC Hendrickson. You can find all of my resources there. We'll just keep it simple. And all my business, podcast, everything, all the links are there.
John Dehlin [04:24:43] That's C E C I Hendrickson.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:24:46] Yes.
John Dehlin [04:24:47] Hendrickson with an O N. You are
Margi Dehlin [04:24:50] a gift, and we cannot wait to see what you create with your life.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:24:57] Thank you.
Margi Dehlin [04:24:58] Yeah.
John Dehlin [04:24:58] Amen.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:24:59] I appreciate that.
John Dehlin [04:25:00] Yeah. All right, Cece, thanks for coming on.
Ceci Hendrickson [04:25:03] Thank you so much.
John Dehlin [04:25:04] And Margi, thanks for co hosting.
Margi Dehlin [04:25:05] Yes, absolutely.
John Dehlin [04:25:07] And thanks for joining us today on Mormon Stories. We couldn't do this without our donors, so if you're a donor. Thank you. Please subscribe. And like this episode, we're almost at 300,000 YouTube subscribers, so, man, if just a few thousand more of you subscribe, we'll hit that 300,000 mark and that would be awesome. Awesome. You can also subscribe and follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. If you're not a donor, but you value this type of content, it's really easy to become a regular donor. You go to mormonstories.org donate Sign up to become a monthly donor we're losing donors every month, so if you people don't sign up to replace them, then we start not being able to do what we do.
John Dehlin [04:25:49] So please support us if you can at mormonstories.org/donate. Also, we're always looking for great storytellers who have great stories. So just like Cece did, she applied and did a video. We would encourage you to do the same. Please go to mormonstories.org apply fill out the form, send us a 3 minute video, tell us why you think your story will be compelling to our audience, and then we'll reach out. If we feel like there's a good fit, please apply.
John Dehlin [04:26:25] Other than that, we appreciate your feedback. Please email us@mormonstoriesmail.com we always love comments on YouTube or Spotify and we always love your feedback. So thanks for joining us today. Please be good to each other, be kind to each other, be a bridge builder and a peacemaker, and we'll see you all again soon on another episode of Mormon Stories podcast. Take care everybody.
Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.
Thumbnail Credits: Image of Ceci courtesy of Ceci Hendrickson; Image of Warren Jeffs from Getty Images; Background image of Texas compound from Trent Nelson of the Salt Lake Tribune
One Response
In episode 2167 Bryan Buchanan explains why Emma lied about Joseph’s having practiced polygamy insisting he hadn’t. Bryan thinks she lied because she was so traumatized by it that she simply wanted to forget about it and put it behind her yet wanted to expose the evil deceitful practice upon being freed from it by Joseph’s death. I think a more likely reason she denied its practice is that she didn’t want her children to know this about their father. What do you think John?