Introducing Stetson and Her Background

John Dehlin [00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Mormon Stories podcast. I'm your host, John Dehlin. It is September 21, 2026. I'm here with Margi. Hey, Margi.

Margi Dehlin [00:00:08] Hello.

John Dehlin [00:00:09] And we're here for part two of our interview with Stetson Doane. Hey, Stetson.

Stetson Done [00:00:14] Hi.

John Dehlin [00:00:14] How was part one for you?

Stetson Done [00:00:16] Awesome.

John Dehlin [00:00:16] Yeah, we loved it too. So we really recommend you watch these in sequence. So if you didn't watch part one, just pause this, go back and watch part one. But in part one, just really quickly, we talked about Stetson growing up as the youngest of six kids. First in Utah, then in Arizona. You know, high school Mormon experience, very traditional. Except for Stetson noticing that Stetson didn't want to be a mom as he was raised to believe he would become, wasn't super into dating guys, but was wanting to do good and be true and to be a faithful Mormon.

John Dehlin [00:00:54] So he graduates from high school, serves a mission in Honduras and Belize, and again, doesn't love the inequity of how women are treated versus men. And obviously this is a transgender Mormon story as well, because Stetson was assigned the gender of female at birth and is biologically X chromosome, I guess you could say, and so was raised as a Mormon girl and young woman. And I already gave my, my little tirade about, about we need to just be loving and accepting of the, the transgender experience as we are the gay lesbian experience, separate from all the politicization of, you know, other types of things. So I'm just trusting my audience that, number one, they won't email me and text me and complain that we're covering a transgender story, but also that you won't because I just always noticed the views somehow go down.

John Dehlin [00:01:56] And it bothers me because we pick good storytellers with good stories and today is no exception to that. So we know you're Hope you're all loving part two and we're excited. Margi and I are excited for part two. So where we left it was Stetson just completed his mission Mormon mission in Honduras, had read DNC132 at the end, was horrified by how Mormon Jesus treated Emma Smith around Joseph's polygamy. Same sex marriage had just been legalized in the United States. Stetson was kind of secretly excited about that, but didn't know how to reconcile that with his faithful Mormonism at the time. And Stetson was now facing looking down the barrel of traditional Mormon marriage as someone assigned the gender of female at birth, which meant he was supposed to become a Mormon wife. And A Mormon mom, which he never had the desire to become. True.

Stetson Done [00:02:57] Yeah, exactly.

Margi Dehlin [00:02:58] But you were told that it would change.

Stetson Done [00:03:01] Yeah, And I was told that, like, that's the option. That's the option for eternal joy and happiness, right?

John Dehlin [00:03:07] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:03:08] And if you don't want it now, you'll change your mind. That's what I was told.

John Dehlin [00:03:12] Yeah. All right. So that's where we are. Anything you want to correct about the intro or fix or edit or add

Stetson Done [00:03:18] El Salvador and Belize?

John Dehlin [00:03:19] What did I say?

Margi Dehlin [00:03:20] Honduras.

John Dehlin [00:03:21] Oh, okay.

Stetson Done [00:03:22] But Honduras and Belize would make more sense because they border each other.

John Dehlin [00:03:25] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:03:26] Yeah, that's okay.

John Dehlin [00:03:27] Thank you. Sorry about that. All right, good, good. All right. So you go home. What year are you off your mission?

Growing Up Mormon and Early Faith Experiences

Stetson Done [00:03:33] I got home 15.

John Dehlin [00:03:34] Must have been 15.

Stetson Done [00:03:35] Yep. October 2015.

John Dehlin [00:03:37] Okay. Right before the November 2015 policy hits.

Stetson Done [00:03:41] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:03:42] Okay. So you go home to Arizona. You wouldn't start school until January at the earliest.

Stetson Done [00:03:48] Correct.

John Dehlin [00:03:49] Okay, so is. What's next. What was it like coming home?

Stetson Done [00:03:53] So, first, one kind of big thing I forgot to mention at the end of my mission was the last P Day. I got an email from my sister that she had left the church.

John Dehlin [00:04:06] That's sibling to.

Stetson Done [00:04:08] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:04:09] Closest to you.

Margi Dehlin [00:04:09] Closest to you. Right.

John Dehlin [00:04:11] Only sister.

Stetson Done [00:04:12] My only sister. And closest to me in age. Closest to me, like, at the time. Right. And she. I don't remember exactly everything, you know, she said or didn't say other than she had left way before this P day that I was reading this email. It was during my mission, and she didn't want to, like, stress me out.

John Dehlin [00:04:39] But she wants you to. She wants you to know before you came home.

Stetson Done [00:04:42] Yeah, exactly. And she said why? I don't know if she did in the email.

John Dehlin [00:04:47] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:04:50] But I was devastated. I'm already, like, obsessing about. I guess this is the. I don't know, doing everything. Right. And. And I still believed everything. Right. I still had a strong testimony myself. And on a mission, like, it's your job to tell people what the truth is. The truth being the church, being the one true church, and the only way to, you know, eternal happiness. So that's my mindset when I'm reading this email. So I'm, like, heartbroken, surprised, confused, and thinking, like, okay, like, is it. Is it my job to tell her, like, she can't leave type of thing? I just didn't know what to do.

Margi Dehlin [00:05:43] You're in that responsibility mindset, too, right? Of being responsible for other people.

Stetson Done [00:05:49] Exactly.

Margi Dehlin [00:05:49] And probably empty chairs. You're like another empty chair.

John Dehlin [00:05:53] Oh, man.

Stetson Done [00:05:53] Yeah, exactly. I don't think, you know, not being on a mission, I would have reacted the same way. I don't know how I would have reacted. But, yeah, I'm in that mindset of this is my responsibility is keeping people, getting people baptized in the 12 church and helping them stay active. Right. And I. In my exit interview with my mission president, I told him this and, like, kind of just said, what do I do? I don't know what to do. I'm about to see her. Like, do I tell her? Like, that's the wrong choice kind of thing? And I think he gave good advice.

John Dehlin [00:06:35] Did she serve a mission?

Stetson Done [00:06:36] No.

John Dehlin [00:06:37] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:06:37] She didn't. She was married in the temple, and.

John Dehlin [00:06:42] Oh.

Stetson Done [00:06:44] And I think when I came home, her husband was still active. He's not now, but. So I'm talking to my mission president of what do I do? And his advice was. Which I think is good, you know, on a mission, you're in the gospel fast lane. And, like, that's what everything is about. And the gospel fast. Yeah, that's what he called it. And, like, when you get home, you're just in the normal lanes. You can. You can be in the gospel slow lane.

John Dehlin [00:07:16] What the.

Stetson Done [00:07:17] And I was like, okay. He's like, so, like, you don't need basically telling me you don't need to make this your whole relationship with your sister all of a sudden.

John Dehlin [00:07:24] That's nice.

Stetson Done [00:07:25] And so I think it was good advice. It kind of, to me, took off some pressure. But, yeah, that was, I think, an important note of right before I came home a few days before.

John Dehlin [00:07:38] So you felt relieved of the burden of having to preach to your sister that she had done well.

Stetson Done [00:07:44] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:07:44] That's nice.

Margi Dehlin [00:07:45] Can we also have a moment for how much we look outside ourselves, to feel okay or not? Like, it could have so been how vulnerable we are in situations like that. Cause if he had said something different.

Stetson Done [00:07:59] Oh, yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:08:00] It could have just really, you know, wrecked you in that moment. It's just an interesting thing, those moments where the authority actually really has an impact.

John Dehlin [00:08:11] He could have gave you bad advice that wrecked your relationship with your sister or damaged it.

Stetson Done [00:08:15] Yeah, definitely.

John Dehlin [00:08:16] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:08:17] And made your mental health worse. Cause you're now like, oh, my gosh, I have to do something, or now I need to.

John Dehlin [00:08:22] Or he tells you to stay away from her because she's dangerous.

Margi Dehlin [00:08:24] Exactly.

Stetson Done [00:08:25] Yeah. I'm so glad.

John Dehlin [00:08:26] Glad.

Stetson Done [00:08:26] I'm so glad that he didn't say anything like that.

Margi Dehlin [00:08:29] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:08:30] But you're right. Like, I had to go ask him what to do.

John Dehlin [00:08:33] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:08:34] And that is. Yeah, well, that's a common theme. Right. Like, I. I don't feel like I had my own voice or like my own authority. Yeah. My own authority ever.

Margi Dehlin [00:08:46] Exactly.

Stetson Done [00:08:47] Ever. And that's a good example of it.

Margi Dehlin [00:08:49] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:08:50] Yeah. So I get home and it was weird to be home. You know, worldly music. And I remember going shopping, like at the mall. The second night I was home and just totally overwhelmed. I felt really guilty. Even though mission rules shouldn't apply anymore, but it was hard for me to come out of that mental space of being. Trying to be perfect in the gospel and, you know, every thought needs to be perfectly pure and all that. It was hard for me to come out of that.

John Dehlin [00:09:30] I. This is just came to my mind. But I'm thinking about, like, historically there have been like, in the Catholic tradition, nuns and priests. There's got to be a big chunk of those who. You're already nodding. Why don't you go? Why don't you go.

Stetson Done [00:09:45] Who are gay and lesbian or.

John Dehlin [00:09:47] Or trans.

Stetson Done [00:09:48] Or trans.

John Dehlin [00:09:48] And they're just like, oh, whatever everyone's saying I need to do, I don't want to do that. Let me go into the ministry. You know what I mean?

Stetson Done [00:09:56] Yeah. I mean, even who want to be

John Dehlin [00:09:59] in the monastery because they don't want to do all the other stuff.

Stetson Done [00:10:02] Yeah, right. Yeah, I. I think so.

John Dehlin [00:10:05] So you're coming out of the monastery, so to speak, is what I'm saying.

Stetson Done [00:10:08] Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probable. Yeah, I would think.

John Dehlin [00:10:13] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:10:15] There's a lot of even just jokes or like memes online of being a super active missionary or youth leader, like in all churches. And then coming out like, oh, yeah, you're trying so hard to just be good and. Right. And I think there's a high percentage.

John Dehlin [00:10:40] Yeah. So the transition's hard.

Margi Dehlin [00:10:45] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:10:45] Getting home, it was just. Just hard to get used to. I went to. I was there for the holidays. The November 2015 policy. I mean, that came out right after I got home from my mission. And I. I was still in a phase of like, everything is about the gospel.

Stetson Done [00:11:13] And it was weird. Like, I heard about it and I didn't understand it and I was like, upset, but I still had that immediate, like, you can't be upset about this. Just that immediate reply to my own thought. Right. Of. I can't have any thoughts against the church. I can't have any thoughts that don't agree with the leaders.

Stetson Done [00:11:38] Again, I was just coming off my mission where that was. My whole cycle was a whirlwind of any thought I had that wasn't perfectly pure or in line with. With church teachings, then I would be guilty about having the thoughts. So the policy comes out. I read it or hear about it.

Stetson Done [00:11:58] I don't like it, but immediately, like, I shut myself down. And so it's kind of odd to me, looking back. I've asked myself, like, why was I not more outraged? But it was just. It's just an immediate. Like, I can't even think. I can't even think ill of it. So I'm not even going to think of it. So that was the 2015 policy for me. I just didn't even want to think about it.

Margi Dehlin [00:12:28] Yeah. Huh.

Stetson Done [00:12:31] Yeah. After that, I went to BYU Provo in January. So I started there. BYU Provo. I did not have as good of an experience as BYU Idaho. The professors are great. I had some really good professors. But the pressure there, I think, is insane.

Stetson Done [00:12:54] Even just academically, church aside, I think BYU Provo is way too intense. That's my own personal opinion. It's like they're acting like an Ivy League. Why? Like, we don't need this pressure. So it was. It was hard, but good.

Stetson Done [00:13:12] And actually, in this same timeline, there's a guy I briefly dated. Right. Who had written me on my mission. He was the one who was like, oh, can we. Are we going to date after? And we had broken up. We didn't leave on our missions, like, together, but he got back in December, and he went back to Bureau, Idaho, and we started talking and then started, like, visiting each other on the weekends between Rexburg and Provo.

Margi Dehlin [00:13:42] And

Stetson Done [00:13:45] I got married really fast. Like, I was engaged by. It was January or February. I got home for my mission in October. So, like, just a few months later, we were engaged.

Margi Dehlin [00:13:58] Wow.

Stetson Done [00:13:59] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:00] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:14:00] And only a month or two after he got home.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:03] Okay. So can I ask, within that time, what happened in your mind with regard to how you viewed getting married?

Stetson Done [00:14:16] Yeah. I just saw it as, like, this is the path.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:22] Right.

Stetson Done [00:14:22] Like, this is my. This is my option.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:25] Got it.

Stetson Done [00:14:29] I. I didn't want to be a mom. And looking back, I can say, like, oh, I wasn't even sexually attracted to him, which is important in a marriage. But I didn't know that.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:41] Right. I so get it.

John Dehlin [00:14:43] You're righteous. Yeah. Right?

Stetson Done [00:14:45] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:14:46] You're obeying the law of chastity.

Stetson Done [00:14:47] Exactly.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:48] And you're right off your mission. So you're still in that exact obedient type of world.

Stetson Done [00:14:55] Mm.

Margi Dehlin [00:14:56] Where. Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:14:57] So it didn't. It didn't even matter to me that that's not, like, what I ultimately wanted. And I couldn't see myself as a good wife and mom, and it didn't matter.

Margi Dehlin [00:15:09] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:15:09] Cause that was the. That was the next choice. Right. There's a plan in your life, and that is the next step after your mission.

John Dehlin [00:15:15] And we're taught even, like, I didn't have. I didn't know the church was true, but I was told, bear your testimonies if you know it's true and the testimony will come. So I'm sure for you it was like, marry a guy and get pregnant and you'll want to be a wife and a mom. Right?

Stetson Done [00:15:32] Exactly.

John Dehlin [00:15:33] Yeah. Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:15:33] And there's also. Well, I'll speak for myself. Like, I think earlier you mentioned appreciating the structure. So for me, when I felt uncertain, I relied on the structure. I would, like, default to the comfort of, like, well, here's the structure. Here's what the structure says. And so. And that would be my initial kind of way to handle the uncertainty. I kind of felt. Did you feel that?

Stetson Done [00:15:58] Yeah, exactly. You know, we're supposed to pray about every decision. Right. And I did all the time. But, for example, it's not like I had some revelation praying about should I get married. I prayed about it. I didn't feel bad. And you're also taught, well, if you don't feel bad and you're doing everything right, like, God's not going to lead you down. Heavenly Father is not going to lead you down a bad path for your life.

John Dehlin [00:16:25] And there's literally no Mormon world in the Mormon mindset where God would say, oh, no, don't be a mom.

Stetson Done [00:16:32] Exactly.

John Dehlin [00:16:32] Don't be a wife. That's not for you. I mean, maybe there are examples of that, but in my mind, God would never do that. In my Mormon mind.

Stetson Done [00:16:41] Never. Never.

John Dehlin [00:16:42] Yeah. It wasn't even a possibility.

Stetson Done [00:16:44] Yeah. I mean, I was told my whole life and I was outspoken about, I don't want to be a mom and my whole life. You'll change your mind.

John Dehlin [00:16:53] Yeah. Just like they tell gay Mormon men, marry a woman and you'll be attracted to her and you'll. Your gayness will go away as you marry her and start having sex with her.

Stetson Done [00:17:02] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:17:03] Right.

Margi Dehlin [00:17:03] It's also, like, treated as a. An act of, like, faith or a good thing that. Rely on my testimony. That idea. If you don't. Yeah. Borrow mine if you don't have one. And so that can play into situations like this where you're like, well, I don't have my own, but I'll rely on. I'll borrow theirs for me.

Stetson Done [00:17:24] Yeah. It makes me really upset now because I just. I wouldn't. You know, I hurt him in the end. Right. And that was not intentional. I never, ever would have done that, with that being my intention, but because I had no other choices in my mind. There were no other. I mean, I didn't even know really that I was attracted to women. I didn't know I was trans. But I also had no representation of alternatives.

Margi Dehlin [00:18:04] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:18:05] In my world. And so.

Margi Dehlin [00:18:06] That's. Right.

Stetson Done [00:18:07] Yeah. So I thought, yeah, he's. He's a good guy. We're. I mean, I also thought I loved him. I hadn't experienced love with a woman before, which. This is who I'm actually attracted to. Right. And so I also had no reference with. This should maybe feel different.

Margi Dehlin [00:18:25] Yes. Right. What it would feel like to have the. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Stetson Done [00:18:30] Exactly. So looking back, I. It's something I'm still upset about because I just wouldn't have done that to someone.

Margi Dehlin [00:18:36] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:18:37] Right. But I. My. My intentions were good. Like.

John Dehlin [00:18:41] Sure. Yeah. You were being faithful.

Margi Dehlin [00:18:43] That's right. And you were at the peak of what Stephen Hassan would say. You're like a conditioned self. Your conditioned self, not necessarily like your. But the one that was formed by the church to serve the church and benefit the church. Coming off a mission is like, at its peak.

John Dehlin [00:19:04] Yeah. He says cult identity.

Margi Dehlin [00:19:05] Oh, does he?

John Dehlin [00:19:06] He's also not pro trans, by the way. I don't know if you know that. But he.

Margi Dehlin [00:19:09] Oh, sorry.

John Dehlin [00:19:10] No, it's not.

Margi Dehlin [00:19:10] I was thinking more for the experience of being in a high control religion and some of the things, so.

Stetson Done [00:19:18] But Sorry, No, I didn't. Anyway, I didn't know that either. But yeah, I was. I'm doing the right things then. That's the right thing. That's the right next step.

John Dehlin [00:19:27] So you heard him, but you didn't mean to. Cause you were just being righteous. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stetson Done [00:19:32] And no one.

John Dehlin [00:19:33] He was into you.

Stetson Done [00:19:34] Oh, yeah. Oh. He loved me and I loved him. Like.

Margi Dehlin [00:19:38] Yeah, right.

John Dehlin [00:19:39] Y' all met again, high school. Y' all met.

Stetson Done [00:19:41] We met at byu, Idaho, before our missions.

John Dehlin [00:19:44] Okay. And you dated a little bit or.

Stetson Done [00:19:45] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:19:46] Okay. Okay.

Stetson Done [00:19:46] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:19:47] Now this other guy that you were talking about.

Stetson Done [00:19:48] No, he's not that one.

John Dehlin [00:19:50] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:19:50] Thank God.

John Dehlin [00:19:52] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:19:52] Yeah, yeah. And like, he was a good guy and likable and fun and. And I don't know. I wish that I have had people react poorly to my story before. Like new. New friends. Oh, you were married and things like that. But didn't, you know, like, why would you get married? You know, just comments like that. And I think that's why I feel the need to really explain. I just never. What. I intend to do that to someone.

John Dehlin [00:20:27] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:20:27] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:20:28] So it's why representation is so important. Because if you don't. Go ahead.

Stetson Done [00:20:32] Yeah. No, just. Yes, it's why representation.

John Dehlin [00:20:35] If you don't have the mental schema of something being possible, even for yourself, the idea can't even occur to you. You don't have the language or the. Or the role models to let you know what's possible. What's possible. Right.

Stetson Done [00:20:53] Yeah, exactly.

John Dehlin [00:20:54] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:20:55] So. Yeah. So we got married and dated how long? Well, we dated, like. Yeah. Byu, Idaho. Probably at most six weeks. Probably less than our missions, which I had broken up with him before. Like, we were not dating during our missions. We wrote. But I. Anytime he brought up dating, I was like, dude, no. Like, do not. Don't even bring it up. Like, I just. If you want to write. We're writing about our missions. And then when he got home, I mean, I don't know. We started dating basically in January, right. When we were both. I was in Provo and he was in Rexburg.

John Dehlin [00:21:41] And you're married by. When?

Stetson Done [00:21:42] By May.

John Dehlin [00:21:43] Whoa.

Stetson Done [00:21:44] Yeah. May.

John Dehlin [00:21:44] So five months off your mission, you're married, huh? Wow.

The 2015 Policy and Its Impact on Her Beliefs

Stetson Done [00:21:48] Yeah, I guess six and a half for me.

John Dehlin [00:21:51] To a guy. Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:21:52] For. Yeah. Five for him. Yeah. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:21:58] Okay. So, like. And this isn't me digging about personal stuff. No, you're like, what was it like to not really be into guys and to not really want to be a wife or a mom? To get married, Was that hard or not hard? Was it just that. Meh.

Stetson Done [00:22:22] It was just. It was just the only option.

John Dehlin [00:22:24] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:22:24] So. So, yeah, I mean, quickly, when. When it became reality. Yeah, it quickly became very hard. Like when I. Once I was married. Yeah, right. But leading up to it, it was my only option, so.

The Temple Ceremony and Getting Married

John Dehlin [00:22:38] So you're a bride.

Stetson Done [00:22:39] Yep. Got married in the Mesa Temple. Two things happen on my honeymoon that were altered the rest. So, number one.

John Dehlin [00:22:51] Wait, before you talk about that, I want to hear that, but what was the temple ceremony like for you as a raised. As a woman, but feeling as you were feeling? Is that a thing or. I don't want to.

Stetson Done [00:23:02] Oh, yeah. I hated it.

John Dehlin [00:23:03] Really.

Stetson Done [00:23:03] I hated it. Really. This should have come up chronologically before, because I went through the temple before my mission, so I loved when it was just baptisms for the dead and I was just a Youth and trying to be super righteous. I mean, I would, like, get groups of people together and go to baptisms. I mean, right. We were doing the thing, doing the right thing. When I went to the temple before my mission, it was awful. And. Just. I know they changed the wording, but you know women. I veiled my face, right. And they're. The temple does a lot that didn't sit right with me, but my face is veiled, and I'm listening to, like, the covenants I'm supposed to be making, and one of them is to obey my husband as he obeys God.

Margi Dehlin [00:24:05] Right.

Stetson Done [00:24:05] I didn't have a husband yet. This was before my mission. But I heard that. Which you're already in deep. I mean, they say you can get up and walk out at the beginning. Right. But, like, there's no way anyone would do that. All my family's there. I'm told this is the peak spiritual experience.

Stetson Done [00:24:25] So I hear that. And I was, like, sickened. You know, my face is veiled, bowing my head. The voice over the loudspeaker is like, now you're covenant. Covenanting to obey your husband as he obeys God. Bow your head and say yes. I said yes, but I was, like, sick.

Stetson Done [00:24:46] And I. And I hated it. And I didn't. I didn't go back to the temple before my mission. You know, I could have. I had a few months. I just. I didn't want to go. I went once the temple on my mission, and I cried the whole time because I was so confused about, why do I hate this? You know, so getting married in the temple, I mean, same thing. Like, you're. You're covenanting or. I. I was covenanting as the woman in the situation to, like, obey my husband.

John Dehlin [00:25:19] Were you veiling your face back then? At that point? They changed the ceremony at some point.

Stetson Done [00:25:25] Yeah, they changed. I think I was still active when they changed it, but I just didn't ever do it.

John Dehlin [00:25:30] Didn't veil your face?

Stetson Done [00:25:31] No, sorry. I didn't ever go back and do, like, these sessions.

John Dehlin [00:25:34] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:25:35] But, yeah, the marriage ceremony. Yeah. I mean, I just. I just really didn't like the temple.

Margi Dehlin [00:25:41] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:25:43] So. Yeah. Got married.

John Dehlin [00:25:47] What was. How was the actual wedding like getting a dress and having bridesmaids and actually getting married and being the bride, like, for you to be a bride.

Stetson Done [00:26:01] I really didn't plan it.

John Dehlin [00:26:03] Like, you weren't all giddy to be a bride?

Stetson Done [00:26:06] No, I. I mean, my sister and my mom helped plan a lot, and I was just kind of like, whatever. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:26:13] And your Sister wasn't active at this point.

Stetson Done [00:26:15] No. Which I actually, I. I did want a separate, like, ceremony where I, like, walked down the aisle.

John Dehlin [00:26:23] A civil ceremony.

Stetson Done [00:26:25] No, because you weren't allowed. I think you're allowed to now. Yeah, but if you. If you got married civilly, you had to wait, like, a year at that time. So. No, it was just kind of an exchanging of rings, and it was after the tem. But I really wanted that because I wanted, like, my sister to be there, my uncles to be there. Right. For example, not all of his family was active either, so that was, like, the one thing I cared about. And I. I wasn't, like. I wasn't giddy planning a wedding. I was like, yeah, if you guys can put this together. Sweet. Like, yeah, the dress, it was, like, one of the first ones I tried on, and I could afford it.

Margi Dehlin [00:27:05] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:27:05] Like, that was my criteria. Like. All right, cool. You know, in your.

John Dehlin [00:27:11] In your gender presentation, would you describe your old self as feminine or as. How. How would you describe your.

Stetson Done [00:27:22] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:27:23] Prior gender presentation?

Stetson Done [00:27:27] I didn't. I didn't feel like I could, like, cut my hair or anything. So I had long hair. Yeah. I was feminine, but it wasn't because, like, I liked feeling that way.

Margi Dehlin [00:27:38] Oh, right.

Stetson Done [00:27:38] It was just. That's what Mormon. That. What? That's what faithful, good Mormon girls at BYU look like. So that's what I looked like.

John Dehlin [00:27:48] Yeah. Okay.

Stetson Done [00:27:49] Yeah. No, I had beautiful, long blonde hair. Like, I was way prettier before, probably.

Margi Dehlin [00:27:56] But I'm curious, like, what you remember the experience being, like, if you felt, like, embodied like. Or dissociative or, like, how you would describe the experience of this. It's like a pinnacle experience of, like, I think how you experienced it, and because I've been in situations where I'm doing the thing that is prescribed to do, but I'm not feeling it. I may not be aware I'm not feeling it, but there's a way you get through something like that. How would you describe how you kind of experienced that period of time?

Stetson Done [00:28:43] That's a great question. I. I had, like, a lot of chronic back pain, and this was true on my mission. Really bad. It was true, like, in high school and on my wedding day. This is why I bring it. I. I felt like that I was in so much pain, and I'm not. I don't know. I'm not a scientist. I don't know if. If that is. It feels to me like it would be possible that that's, like, a physical representation of.

Margi Dehlin [00:29:13] Yeah. Psychosomatic Is that what it's called?

Stetson Done [00:29:16] Yeah. I think just of, like, deep down, I knew, like, this is not what I want and this is not who I am and everything. By the way, I don't have chronic back pain anymore.

Margi Dehlin [00:29:29] Yeah. Right.

Stetson Done [00:29:31] That basically went away when I transitioned. I'm not. I don't know all the signs of it, but, like, my wedding day, I was just. I was in so much pain.

Margi Dehlin [00:29:38] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:29:39] In fact, after the temple ceremony, I was. I was in so much pain, I took a bunch of. I don't know, like, a handful of, like, ibuprofen and Tylenol and naproxen. Right. And I took a nap before the, like, little lunch thing. And when we. My husband and I, when we, like, got to the lunch and went in, like, everyone was joking about us having sex. And I remember being, like, really offended and, like, just. I don't know, like, I was in so much pain. So I don't know if that was my body dissociating, but even if it wasn't.

Margi Dehlin [00:30:21] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:30:21] I wasn't present because I was in a lot of pain.

Margi Dehlin [00:30:24] Yeah. Yep.

Stetson Done [00:30:26] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:30:27] Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, for sure.

John Dehlin [00:30:31] So. And for straight cisgender brains, sometimes trying to really understand the transgender experience is a bridge too far.

Stetson Done [00:30:42] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:30:43] Because you got to figure out the gender thing and the sexual attraction thing, and those are totally different. So, like, let's just say for the straight CIS people, they're trying to get your experience at this point, you're kind of really in their brains. A lesbian woman who didn't know she was lesbian, married to a man who probably thought, I wonder if I'm asexual, or didn't even think that. But, like, certainly not attracted to your husband at the time.

Stetson Done [00:31:12] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:31:13] What do you want to say about how that was, for you at the time, getting married? And, you know, and I'm not asking for details. I'm not.

Stetson Done [00:31:22] Well, I did. I did at least want to say so on my honeymoon, obviously, we had sex, and I hated it.

John Dehlin [00:31:28] You did?

Stetson Done [00:31:29] I hated it. However, I had also, like, heard from friends who. Who are attracted to men. Right. That, like, the first time isn't good, and it can be really painful. A bunch of things like that. Which all are true. So just because I hated it, I didn't think that meant, like, something bigger. Right. Like, I just thought, oh, other. Other women felt this. They told me that, you know, I'm glad I talked to them, because I would have thought something was wrong. Right. And. And I'm a little stubborn sometimes, and so in my mind, I'm like, I just gotta. I just gotta do this till I like it.

Marriage, Intimacy, and Faith Struggles

Margi Dehlin [00:32:11] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:32:11] Like, right. So, like, that lasted a while where I was just. Yeah. I'm just gonna have sex until it's good. And. And it sucked every time. It was awful. Oh, my gosh.

John Dehlin [00:32:28] So sex was always awful. And that might be a straight woman's experience as well. I don't know.

Margi Dehlin [00:32:33] Well, that's what.

Stetson Done [00:32:34] Yeah. And that's why I thought. That's why I didn't think it meant something bigger. Right. That's why I felt like it partly answers your question. Like, where was I at?

John Dehlin [00:32:42] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:32:42] I still didn't think, wow, I hated sex, so I. I must be attracted to women.

John Dehlin [00:32:46] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:32:47] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:32:47] I just was like, oh, yeah. Like, my friends have told me that sex isn't great at first, so, like that. I don't know. I didn't think it was something bigger.

John Dehlin [00:32:57] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:32:59] I do think, like, I wish that. I don't know. In some ways, I wish the law of chastity and everything was different, because if I had had sex before I got married, I wouldn't have gotten married.

John Dehlin [00:33:14] You sure about that?

Stetson Done [00:33:15] I think so.

John Dehlin [00:33:16] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:33:16] That's honestly, like.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:18] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:33:19] For the straight partners as much as for the LGBTQ partners. Right.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:23] They're. Well, at least. At least apart.

John Dehlin [00:33:27] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:28] Like, there is sexual compatibility that.

John Dehlin [00:33:31] Yeah. Even if everyone. Even straight. More cisgender.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:33] 4.

John Dehlin [00:33:33] It's still better.

Stetson Done [00:33:34] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that's unjust.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:41] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:33:41] You know, not. Not allowing young people to explore at all. It just leads to a lot of. I think it leads to a lot of divorces.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:49] Huh.

Stetson Done [00:33:50] By the way.

Margi Dehlin [00:33:50] That's right. It's. It's necessary data in a lot of ways. Let's just say that.

Stetson Done [00:33:55] Yeah. Exactly. But you can be straight cisgender and not compatible sexually. Exactly. It can also mean other things. So.

Margi Dehlin [00:34:04] Yep.

Stetson Done [00:34:05] So, yeah, immediately that was bad. The other thing, on my honeymoon that happened. So let's. Let me back up. I just got off my mission six months before. Super righteous, trying to do all the right things. I'm at BYU pro all this. I'm married in the temple. I'm doing all these things partly because if I do everything right, like, I'm gonna want to be a mom. I'm gonna want this future that's painted before me as, like, my option as a Mormon woman. Right. So, like, this is what's in my head. Right. I'm on my honeymoon, and my. My husband comes to me and he's like, hey, I Need to go buy a cigarette. I'm like, what? Like, 24 hours before we had been married in the temple.

Margi Dehlin [00:35:01] Right.

Stetson Done [00:35:02] This was on my honeymoon. I was like, wait, what? I was just confused. He's like, yeah, I actually, like, don't believe in the word of wisdom. I think it. I don't think it's real. Like, I. And I have been dipping and, you know, so. Chewing tobacco, smoke weed.

John Dehlin [00:35:20] He was from where? What state?

Stetson Done [00:35:21] He was from Denver, Colorado.

John Dehlin [00:35:23] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:35:24] All that weed. Which, if. If I. That's not a big deal now in my current reality, present 2026. Right. But if we look at where I was at, we had just gotten married in the temple. I was trying to do everything right. This is, like, shattering my entire world.

Margi Dehlin [00:35:44] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:35:45] I'm also sitting there listening to him say, like, yeah, I think I believe in the church, but, like, definitely not the word of wisdom. I think. I just don't think it matters. And I couldn't tell you because I knew you wouldn't marry me.

John Dehlin [00:36:00] Talk about informed consent. Like, he had more to apologize for than you did.

Stetson Done [00:36:08] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:36:12] That's terrible. That is.

John Dehlin [00:36:15] I mean, Mormon terrible. Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:36:17] Yes. Yeah. But again, well, it's not a big deal now, but at the time.

Margi Dehlin [00:36:23] Well, everything's at stake in Mormonism.

Stetson Done [00:36:26] Everything.

Margi Dehlin [00:36:26] All like a. A mental.

John Dehlin [00:36:28] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:36:29] Everything. And I had. And. Yeah. And I. I was trying to do everything right. And in my head, even when he's telling me this, I'm also thinking, so is my marriage even, like, valid? Like, was that ordinance in the temple valid? Because he wasn't worthy. And he lied. Right. He had to lie to get to the temple. He lied to me.

Margi Dehlin [00:36:51] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:36:51] Right. And it just sent me into a spiral.

Margi Dehlin [00:36:56] That's right. Control of information, I think, from a person feels manipulative, too.

Stetson Done [00:37:02] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [00:37:03] And so it just leaves you in a place. I think of a lot of vulnerability and uncertainty and kind of panic. Right?

Stetson Done [00:37:15] Yeah. Yeah, I panicked.

Margi Dehlin [00:37:17] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:37:19] So. Yeah, so I panicked. We were supposed to go back to BYU Provo after our. After our honeymoon and stuff. And, you know, the rest of the honeymoon, whatever, was fun. We, like, we're on a cruise. It was. We did fun stuff, but I'm panicking internally.

Stetson Done [00:37:43] And on the way home, like, on the plane, I was like, hey, like, let's. Let's not. Let's. Let's move back to Mesa. I don't know. I was just panicking and. And didn't know what to do. And he hadn't gotten into BYU Provo. I was going back. But, like, he hadn't gotten in yet, so he was just gonna go work anyway.

Stetson Done [00:38:07] And I think, I think I just panicked because my whole world was turned upside down and I didn't know what to do. And I was like, let's live in my parents basement and figure out what we want to do type of thing.

Stetson Done [00:38:20] So that's what we did. Then, like, I ended up going back to BYU Provo for a couple semesters, but. And, and I don't know, like, where we want to go in the timeline, but things started coming up in our marriage where, like, faith wise and also like identity wise for me.

John Dehlin [00:38:45] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:38:45] So.

John Dehlin [00:38:47] Yeah, okay. Yeah, let's go there. So, like, what was it like to be married? What was it like with your faith?

Stetson Done [00:38:55] Yeah. Okay, so.

John Dehlin [00:38:56] And how did you discover maybe you were oriented sexually in a different way?

Stetson Done [00:39:02] Yeah. And gender.

John Dehlin [00:39:03] So.

Stetson Done [00:39:04] Okay, but it was sex before gender, right? Yes, it was. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:39:08] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:39:08] Okay. So sex never got good. Like sex between him and I. I always hated it and cried and, and felt bad that I wasn't a good wife. Right. Like, why can't I do this? Like, why can't I be okay with this? And so a lot of distress, kind of. And guilt mentally from there. I also still didn't want to be a mom. We, by the way, I kind of just ignored his thing about the church or the word of Wisdom. Like, we, we just, we went back, you know, and, and I think I couldn't process it. So we, we were active. I had, we had callings and I was just still trying to do all the right things.

John Dehlin [00:40:00] You were a young woman's leader, right?

Stetson Done [00:40:01] Yeah. Which I loved. I loved it. Yeah. So we lived between.

John Dehlin [00:40:08] We're teaching young women that they were going to be wives and mothers.

Stetson Done [00:40:11] Yeah. In the last that comes up. That comes up because. Yeah. So we were married four years. And between then, like among those years, we lived sometimes in Mesa, some in Provo. I was at BYU Provo for a few different semesters.

Stetson Done [00:40:33] I kind of just felt like I was always like, running from something. We were never really settled. He also didn't know he didn't want to do school. His parents blamed me, which is a whole other thing. But like, he wasn't interested in college and he didn't really know what he wanted to do for work. I didn't know what to do to study because I still was feeling like, okay, I still don't want to be a mom. But as the, as the years go by, like, him and I are fighting about that, like, his parents are my parents. Probably had learned by the sixth kid, like, don't ask your kids when they're going to have kids, because I don't feel like they really brought it up to me. But yeah, his parents are like, you guys need to have kids. Like, what are you doing?

John Dehlin [00:41:24] And he wanted kids.

Stetson Done [00:41:25] And he wanted kids. He really wanted kids. So, like, like, our main fights were just. I didn't want to be a mom. I didn't want to have kids, and sex was just terrible. Anytime we tried to fix anything about it, like.

Margi Dehlin [00:41:42] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:41:42] Anyway, so between Mesa and Provo, I was always a young men's, like, in my adulthood, post mission, whether that was. I was assistant camp director one year, I was girls camp director another year. Then I was just like in Youngman's. I was a leader in Beehives and Miami's and Laurels. They changed the names, I think. But that's like all the different age groups.

Margi Dehlin [00:42:08] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:42:10] And we can probably, I guess, fast forward through this first few years of marriage, because that pretty sums. Pretty much sums it up.

Margi Dehlin [00:42:15] Yeah.

Moving to Texas and Community Service

Stetson Done [00:42:19] But actually in this timeline, then we go to Texas. Can I go there now?

John Dehlin [00:42:30] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:42:31] Okay. So we've been married for a few years and Hurricane Harvey happens. This relates. It's. It relates.

John Dehlin [00:42:39] I've seen the other one.

Stetson Done [00:42:40] Okay, so Hurricane Harvey happens in 2017. And I had had, growing up an EFY leader who talked about going to help after Hurricane Sandy. And I just thought that was so cool of him that he went and volunteered after Hurricane Sandy. So as a teenager in afy, hearing a leader say that, I just told myself, I'm gonna do that. Like, when I'm an adult, if there's a disaster like that, I'm gonna go help. So I had decided, like, long before. So Hurricane Harvey hits, and my mind was like, already made up. I'm gonna go help. I'm gonna go volunteer.

Stetson Done [00:43:14] And I, I told my husband that, and he was like, okay, All right. You're not gonna go alone, though. I'm like, all right, then you're coming with. But I'm just letting you know I'm gonna go. Like, I was fine with going alone too. I'm gonna go. So, yeah, he joined me. We. We had fun times. You know, we were. We were friends stuff.

Margi Dehlin [00:43:42] Nice.

Stetson Done [00:43:42] But yeah, we hightail it to. To Texas. We start driving to Houston and the, the roads. You couldn't get to Houston. Like, I told him this when it happened. When I saw the news was that day, I was like, we're going to help. So we're driving. We had to stay in San Antonio for a few days for, like, to actually be able to get over there because of all the floods.

Stetson Done [00:44:07] And during this time, the church had put out a statement of, like, don't go help, which logistically I understand. Like, they probably don't want a ton, like random thousands of people showing up with no plan. I can, like, see why they would say that. But I got texts from members of my ward, multiple people, like three different people texting me, like, well, you. I know you said you were. I saw on Facebook you were going to Houston, but the brethren just said that we shouldn't go help. Yeah, like, people are texting me saying, like, you're disobeying the leaders by going to volunteer after the hurricane and flood.

Margi Dehlin [00:44:48] So strange. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:44:49] Where people are drowning.

Stetson Done [00:44:50] Yeah, exactly. And their homes are completely destroyed and stuff. So, like, that was weird. And we didn't have, like, much of a plan. Right. And so I did think, maybe we'll team up with Mormon Helping Hands. Maybe not. But after that, we couldn't go join Helping Hands. Right.

Stetson Done [00:45:11] I think we were able to contact, like, we got in touch with one ward member near Houston who said, this is what they sent out, if you want to come. But it was also like, you. There was no organized effort by the church to like, have volunteers there and have somewhere for them to stay and eat and stuff like that. All that. Say we didn't volunteer with Helping Hands. We end up getting to Houston.

Stetson Done [00:45:38] And actually further than that, where we were was Port Arthur, which is like right on the edge of Texas and Louisiana. And it was awesome. We, like, we just found this. I don't even remember how we got linked up with them.

Stetson Done [00:45:58] We were like helping at a shelter. And then some people said, oh, you should check out this organization called Operation Blessing. And they're like non denominational Christian, and maybe if you email them, you can volunteer with them. So we did, and we get out to Port Arthur and there was this megachurch which was like the home base. They were using it as a home base. So like a mega non denominational Christian church, which I was always taught those churches were bad, by the way, in Mormonism.

Stetson Done [00:46:30] And we go and they're like, we're getting so many volunteers. Like, we were there right as everything was happening. Right. So we started setting up cots. They had cots at the church for situations like this. I mean, they had a storage room of cots.

John Dehlin [00:46:46] They're out Christianing the Mormons. They just are.

Stetson Done [00:46:49] Yes. And this is my experience in the hole. We were there for five weeks. And that was my experience the whole time. So like, immediately I'm like, wait, this is awesome. Like, volunteers are coming. This church has somewhere for them to stay. There's people cooking, volunteering and cooking all day, every day. And then it wasn't just volunteers. They had like food trucks and their church kitchen. People could just come and be fed the whole time we were there.

Margi Dehlin [00:47:19] Mm.

Stetson Done [00:47:20] The Mormon church was not doing this.

Margi Dehlin [00:47:22] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:47:23] And so the, the reason Texas stands out as like another pivot point in my story is I'm just seeing hundreds of people be more Christian or exemplifying Christ like values in action more than I had ever seen.

Margi Dehlin [00:47:41] Right, right.

Stetson Done [00:47:43] Point blank.

Margi Dehlin [00:47:44] Yeah, that's right.

Stetson Done [00:47:46] So we ended up staying with a family that was volunteering with us that we met through that and stayed with them for like most of the time we were there. And they were Christian, just non denominational. This like mega, mega church type of church. We went to church with them.

Stetson Done [00:48:08] It was cool. It was different. Right. We're waving hands and stuff. I had never done that. But I was taught, I guess for me, like, I was taught that this is like bad. But they're, they're volunteering all day, every day. This family is, they're so giving on Sundays. You know, I, we didn't. Growing up, I didn't go out to eat on Sundays. Right. That's like breaking the Sabbath day. But they go to church and they go out to eat with the whole family. And it's like, so it was just to see a family that was like so focused on family and exemplifying Christ, like values and all of their friends and all the people were volunteering with none of which were Mormon. It was just really changed my perspective a lot.

Margi Dehlin [00:48:57] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:49:00] Also, even though I was really righteous, I started drinking sweet tea because we were in Texas and my husband was drinking it like he didn't believe in the word of wisdom. He's like, really? This is good. And I kind of struggled with it. I actually went back and I read DNC 88 and I mean, it opens up or. Yeah. And it opens up saying not by way of commandment. And I had never thought about that before. So then I look up a little bit and I'm very cautious. I'm like, I'm not going to look at anti Mormon stuff, but I look up a little bit of. Wait, this wasn't even part of the temple recommend interview to like way later, like the mid-1990s.

Margi Dehlin [00:49:40] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:49:41] Or sorry, mid-1900s.

Margi Dehlin [00:49:42] Yeah, yeah.

Stetson Done [00:49:43] Yes. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:49:44] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:49:45] And yeah, I. I didn't know any of that. I didn't go down a anti Mormon rabbit hole. But I read enough that I was like, okay, like, I think I'll have sweet tea.

Margi Dehlin [00:49:54] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:49:54] So I did anyway. But that was really a pivotal time because then we get back and it was just kind of like everything. I started talks in church, lessons in church, kind of everything, I just started looking at more like, are we focused on Christ? Like, what I just experienced, you know, people were praying with each other and yeah, it was in public, in the streets after a natural disaster. But, you know, Mormons would. Or some scriptures would say, like, don't do that, because that's. I just was. I felt like the impression I got growing up in the church was these other churches are just performative and they just want people to think they're good. But what I was saying was these people are good.

John Dehlin [00:50:47] And I was. I always felt like growing up when there was a service project, you would. If you were an adult, your service project was helping other Mormons. It was like, oh, go.

Stetson Done [00:50:58] You know, right.

John Dehlin [00:51:00] For me, it was like, oh, they are gonna be roofing their house. Elders quorum show up and help them roof the house, or they're laying a bunch of sod, go over to a member's house and help lay the sod, or someone's moving in or moving out of the ward. That was service for me as a Mormon adult, as a Mormon youth. It was like some leader had the assignment of a service project, and it was like, go to one of the widows who were a member and mow their lawn, you know, or like weed their yard because they're weeds. But it was always kind of awkward and only for Mormons.

John Dehlin [00:51:36] And then later the church added this Mormon helping hands thing that again, was like, it's almost like the church had the PR people and all the Mormons were wearing yellow vests. And it was almost like a performative service project to tell the world, hey, we serve people. Which again, is a very Christian cause. Jesus said, do your service in secret. So for me, Mormon service projects were just always a little bit either self serving or kind of weird. Right?

Stetson Done [00:52:05] Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because I might have forgot to mention that was a big part of the difference in Texas. Also, we ended up weeks into it helping someone that one of the other volunteers knew. And there were people with Mormon helping hands there.

Stetson Done [00:52:21] So obviously we talked. You know, we're all members. And. And I found out. I don't. I don't Want to claim that this is all Mormon helping hands, but I, from what I learned in that interaction, they were only helping people who were Mormon. They were only helping people in the wards. Yeah, like they had their list and it was people in the wards. Whereas who I was volunteering with, literally people who were coming up on the street filling out an application saying, this is my address, this is what I need. We would come back in the morning as volunteers, take the paper and go to the address and go help. It didn't matter. They didn't ask, what do you believe? Do you pay tithing? Right. It didn't matter. We were helping everyone.

John Dehlin [00:53:05] My experience was a Mormon youth would never go work in a community soup kitchen or a community homeless shelter because it scary non Mormons, you know what I mean? Anyway, that's my experience. Other people may have different experiences, but

Stetson Done [00:53:20] yeah, I know the ward that like my parents are in now, for example, I know they do that.

John Dehlin [00:53:26] Okay.

Stetson Done [00:53:27] But I didn't grow up doing that.

John Dehlin [00:53:28] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:53:29] Okay. So there are certainly many wards that don't do that. Yeah, I'm sure.

Recognizing Her Gender Identity and Coming Out

John Dehlin [00:53:33] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:53:34] Yeah. So I get back and everything, I'm just kind of like, I just felt like it wasn't centered on Christ

Margi Dehlin [00:53:43] Church.

Stetson Done [00:53:44] And I'm starting to, I guess 20, 19, I'm starting to realize I think I'm attracted to women. And I had never had those concrete thoughts where kind of all of a sudden they were like popping in my head of like, oh, she's like really beautiful. And like, like more than just because I don't know. Some people say, well, all women think women are pretty. I'm like, yeah, it's different.

Stetson Done [00:54:17] So maybe I had had thoughts like that before, but I was like, oh, like I'm like attracted to these women. This is weird. And I pushed them off for a long time, but it just started coming up more and more.

Stetson Done [00:54:32] There was a little bit too of some gender stuff, although not that I would name as like, oh, maybe I'm trans, but my ex husband, his brother is trans. That's actually how I found out trans men existed. Like I said, I didn't know trans men existed. When I met him at byu, Idaho, he was telling me about his brother and I, I was like, oh, I didn't know. I just didn't know they existed. I'm like, oh, I didn't know that happened. I don't know. We didn't really talk in depth, but so a couple things happened through knowing him, my brother in law, that just, I didn't ever think at that time I'm trans.

Stetson Done [00:55:19] But for example, one time I was supposed to be in, in one of my best friend's weddings and she had asked the bridesmaids to wear a certain color and certain color of heels. Right. That's a normal request. All good. I was like kind of stressed and I procrastinated. I was supposed to leave for the wedding and I hadn't bought shoes yet. And we were at his parents, my husband's parents house for Christmas and I was gonna fly from there out to the wedding. So I'm shopping with my mother in law to try to find this, this heel, this certain shoe.

Stetson Done [00:55:54] And I always hated shopping. Like lots of anxiety, I think because of gender dysphoria that I didn't have words for. But we're in dsw, a shoe store in like Fort Collins, Colorado and I'm, I start, I like have a panic attack and I'm crying and like, why? I'm just trying to buy some shoes.

Stetson Done [00:56:16] My mother in law surely just trying to comfort me and like not putting two and two together, I'm sure was like, you know, my brother in law, he used to struggle with this all the time. This was, this was what shopping with him was like. I'm sorry, she was just trying to comfort me. But in the back of my mind I'm like, that's kind of weird. I don't know.

Margi Dehlin [00:56:42] Yeah.

Stetson Done [00:56:43] So all this started happening where a couple times I thought, yeah, like I'm not, I don't feel feminine. I never have, you know, But I was starting to feel it, recognize my feelings of attraction towards women. I also, you said earlier, like, you're a young women's leader teaching about being a mom.

Stetson Done [00:57:09] 20, 19. I started feeling like just too guilty about that because even though I still believed in the church and everything, I still didn't want kids. I didn't think there were gonna. If, if young women said they didn't want to be mom, I didn't automatically think, you're going to change your mind.

Stetson Done [00:57:29] And so I actually talked to the young women president. I was a, I was in the presidency, so I was one of her counselors. And I said, hey, I love being a leader. I can be here every Sunday, I can be here every Wednesday. I can help plan activities, I can do everything you want, but I can't teach anymore.

Stetson Done [00:57:48] And we didn't go into detail. I didn't want to go into detail with that, but I just said, if you want to release me, I understand, but I can't teach. And so for A full year of being a leader. I wasn't teaching. I just felt dishonest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, there's.

John Dehlin [00:58:13] So how did it go from there?

Stetson Done [00:58:14] Ah, so then this actually would have been. I keep saying, 2019. One thing that happened in the end of 2018 that also, I think, kind of spurred all this is as a young men's leader, we took the young women up to Salt Lake. We were in Mesa. We took a big trip to conference, and we had done, like, a big fundraiser. We had been working for, like, years to make this happen. So we come up to conference and Saturday morning session in October 2018. We were not, like, in the conference center for that session, but we were in the tabernacle, like, watching it broadcast. And Elder Oaks, at the time, Dylan H. Oaks, gave a talk called the Truth and the Plan.

John Dehlin [00:59:11] And

Stetson Done [00:59:14] I. I don't really remember. I've gone back and read it now. I don't really remember at the time, like, all the exact words he said, but I just remember, like, totally disassociating and just panicking internally. Now I've gone back and read it. And the whole thing is about the proclamation of the family, how that's, like, that's the truth that we need to focus on and that worldly influences would have you think that there are. That gender roles aren't as important as they are, or that being a mom isn't as important as it is, and not to listen to those voices. Literally, in his talk, he says that Satan, like, that's what he's targeting the most, and that he can imitate feelings of revelation.

Margi Dehlin [01:00:06] Oh, wow.

Stetson Done [01:00:08] And so, you know, I had been married for three years at that point. I still didn't want to be a mom, but I was very active and still praying and. And I felt kind of okay in a lot of ways. But hearing that, it was like, so is it just Satan giving me that revelation of, like, hey, you're okay right now. You know, you're worthy enough right now? And I had. I had a panic attack, and I made something up. I told. I told the leaders, like, the other leaders. I was like, yeah, I think I drank too much caffeine. Like, I drank, like, a bunch of Red Bulls, you know, driving up here, making the drive. I don't know, it must be that. But it was that talk. And so it was like, Texas in 2017, that talk in 2018. And so then all of 2019, it was like my whole world was unraveling.

Margi Dehlin [01:01:01] Got it.

Stetson Done [01:01:03] While I was still just trying to do the Right thing.

Margi Dehlin [01:01:05] Got it.

Stetson Done [01:01:06] And thinking it was like, I dug in harder, thinking, like, if I just do it, I should feel okay about this.

Margi Dehlin [01:01:15] That's right. Do it till it feels good.

Stetson Done [01:01:18] Mm. Exactly.

John Dehlin [01:01:19] Which was working so great for you.

Stetson Done [01:01:21] Yeah, yeah. And I would have, like, these little experiences. Like, I went to the temple. I did baptisms as an adult, by the way, because I hated the endowment session that much. So I. This one time I was in the temple and I. I saw a lady with short hair and it was dyed pink. And I was like, oh, I could cut my hair. Literally. Like, that's what I thought. And so I did. I cut my hair short. I also at this point was feeling so, like, awful wearing dresses on Sunday. I still didn't think I was trans. Like, I don't know. I just. I just felt so awful that I. I said to myself, you know, this is making me not want to go to church, so I'm just going to wear pants. So for a year, I wore pants at church.

Margi Dehlin [01:02:11] Wow.

Stetson Done [01:02:13] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:02:14] Loving it.

John Dehlin [01:02:15] Do you know I just saw a ex Mormon Reddit post where somebody took a picture of sister missionaries wearing pants.

Stetson Done [01:02:22] They.

John Dehlin [01:02:24] I wondered how you would feel about that.

Stetson Done [01:02:26] So in Central America, they changed that right after I got home, and it was because of so much, like, dengue and mosquito related, like, illnesses. I was so mad. They changed it just a few months after I got home for specific regions. It was like, Central America, maybe some parts of Africa.

Margi Dehlin [01:02:42] Okay.

Stetson Done [01:02:44] But, yeah, I was pretty mad and I didn't know it was everywhere now.

Margi Dehlin [01:02:49] Yeah. So you've cut your hair.

Stetson Done [01:02:52] I've cut my hair.

Margi Dehlin [01:02:52] You're wearing pants to church now.

Stetson Done [01:02:55] Yep. And I started. I was hired as a deputy sheriff, which I. I'm not a deputy anymore, but I. I loved it and I really miss it. Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:03:07] How about that?

Stetson Done [01:03:09] Yeah. So, like, I have this career that I had just started. I. I was hired and in the process of starting an Academy in 2019. I started Academy at the beginning of 2020. I was still married. So, like, I'm stoked about my career, which is more masculine, I think it's fair to say. Cisgender straight women are awesome cops too, but I would say it's a more masculine field. So I'm, like, excited about that. I'm trying to make changes to see. Is that it? Like, can I just express myself? Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:03:49] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:03:49] Allowing myself to explore myself a little bit for the first time.

Margi Dehlin [01:03:56] Mm.

Stetson Done [01:03:59] Yeah. But the marriage just wasn't.

Margi Dehlin [01:04:03] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:04:04] I thought by making these small steps, I would feel more comfortable. Like I can be myself but still be part of this part of the church.

Margi Dehlin [01:04:13] Right.

Stetson Done [01:04:16] I was depressed. My. My mental health during most of my marriage was pretty abysmal.

Margi Dehlin [01:04:22] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:04:23] There are a couple times in which I was like, pregnancy scares. Like, I was suicidal.

Margi Dehlin [01:04:36] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:04:38] So my mental health was really bad. So I started making these changes to see can I be a faithful woman in the church. That's just different. I was praying just for someone to talk to and who. I'm my wife now. We were friends before, and we. I was like, this was in the beginning of 2020. I had been praying so earnestly for so long. Like, now that I've accepted the fact that I am attracted to women, I just need to. I just need someone to talk to.

Margi Dehlin [01:05:17] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:05:17] And, like, I can get through this, you know, I can, like, get over it or, like, I don't know. We were hanging out and we had. We were on, like, this trip just a couple hours away from Mesa. She drove me home, and right before she dropped me off, she was like, hey, I gotta tell you something I'm really, really struggling with. Like, okay. She's like, I like women. I was like, what? All I said was, me, too. And then I got out of the

Margi Dehlin [01:05:50] car,

Stetson Done [01:05:53] and so my whole world, I'm like, oh, no. Like, I admitted it to someone. She was also super active. And for a little. For a couple months after that, like. Like, we went to institute together. She was in the Pathways program. And so we went to, like, Mesa. McC. Mesa Community College Institute. Like, we had talked finally. We had finally said it to one another. Not even to each other, like, Right. That. That first conversation or anything, but it was like, someone I can talk to.

Margi Dehlin [01:06:22] Yeah, Right.

Stetson Done [01:06:23] Who's also, like, trying to stay in the church. Pretty quickly, I. I realized I can't stay married.

Margi Dehlin [01:06:36] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:06:37] So just within a couple months, I mean, I was falling in love with her. And so I told my husband. I was like, hey, like, I don't. I don't want to. I want a divorce. I'm attracted to women. I'm not attracted to you. That went over pretty poorly. But I knew. I just knew I couldn't stick around. Like, it wasn't fair to either of us.

Margi Dehlin [01:07:07] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:07:08] At the time, I wasn't even deciding, like, and the whole church isn't true or something. But I had just accepted this about myself and also realized, like. Well, I felt like, I guess that also means I have to stop going to church. I know that's not true for everyone, but that's how I felt at the Time.

Margi Dehlin [01:07:25] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:07:27] That's how I would have felt. Can't be lesbian and an active, faithful Mormon. I would have felt the same way, I imagine. Although there are some that do.

Stetson Done [01:07:34] But yeah, yeah, yeah. So I stopped going to church. I moved out and filed for divorce.

John Dehlin [01:07:40] And how was that, man, with your parents, siblings and your in laws?

Stetson Done [01:07:46] Lots of different reactions.

John Dehlin [01:07:47] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:07:48] So, okay. My siblings, I was really afraid to come out. I think a lot of people experience that. And this first coming out was like me coming out as lesbian, which is who I thought I was at the time. My siblings were great. My in laws didn't talk to me. My. My in laws, who I thought we had a good relationship. My father in law emailed me, and it was a long email about how I was forsaking eternal blessings and basically ruining my future. And my mother in law didn't say anything to me. No one called me, texted me. We literally, we haven't spoke, like, yeah.

John Dehlin [01:08:39] To this day.

Stetson Done [01:08:40] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:08:40] Wild.

Stetson Done [01:08:41] I was pretty hurt by that. Like, I thought we were.

Margi Dehlin [01:08:45] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:08:45] I was married to him for four years. Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:08:50] I'm sorry.

Stetson Done [01:08:53] I also feel still guilty for, like, hurting him. I hurt him. And, like, understandably at the time, he was also depressed. I. I obviously think it was the right decision and the most fair decision to both of us, but I just, I really wish that I didn't have to do that. That I didn't. That I had other options. Earlier, my parents, who I was still nervous to talk to, even though I knew they were loving and, you know, non judgmental. My mom, I told her and she said, I love the church and I know it's true. And they're wrong about this, this being their stance on LGBT issues. And they've, they've been loving and supportive. Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:09:59] You mentioned your dad. Do you want to say what your dad's reaction was or.

Stetson Done [01:10:02] Yeah. So that comes later.

John Dehlin [01:10:03] Okay. Okay.

Stetson Done [01:10:04] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:10:04] Okay. So what, what does come next?

Leaving the Marriage and Finding Herself

Stetson Done [01:10:06] All right, so next I've moved out. I had also, I told my wife, like, well, my now wife, I had told her, like, I'm in love with you, but I'm not. I'm not about to be a homewrecker.

John Dehlin [01:10:23] She was married.

Stetson Done [01:10:24] She was married with kids and active and had kids. And I was like. So I, you know, I told her when. As soon as I told my husband that I'm getting a divorce, you know, I can't. I don't want to be in this situation where then we're like, I don't know, cheating and lying for, like a long Time and I don't know all the things. Right.

Stetson Done [01:10:51] So I didn't want to go there. And so I was like, hey, I'm in love with you, but I also am not. I don't want to be a homewrecker. So, like, we can't be friends. That's why I felt right, like, I can't just keep being your friend.

Stetson Done [01:11:07] She also had feelings for me. And. And yeah, that's why I said that. I was like, we can't do this. And I said, like, I. But I also don't want you to leave for me because I, like, it can't just be for me. Like, if. If you already.

Stetson Done [01:11:21] I knew she was already depressed and, like, had a lot of issues in her marriage, too, but I just didn't want it to be, like, for me that she left or she came out

John Dehlin [01:11:30] to you before you came out to her.

Stetson Done [01:11:31] Yeah, exactly. So, like, there were obviously like, a lot of issues already in her marriage, but I felt like I don't want to be.

John Dehlin [01:11:38] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:11:38] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:11:39] I don't know. What if it doesn't work out? And then what? Like.

John Dehlin [01:11:41] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:11:42] So. Yeah. So for a little bit, I was just like, hey, like, we. I. We can't just be friends anymore because I like you too much, so I'm going to go date other people. Like, I'm going to meet women and live my life type of thing. We both read, but she. She's the one who, like, suggested we read it. A book by Carolyn Pearson. No More Goodbyes.

John Dehlin [01:12:06] You had already read the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy, right?

Stetson Done [01:12:10] Yeah. Should have brought that up earlier.

John Dehlin [01:12:13] No, it's okay. I think this is a good place because it's faith stuff now.

Stetson Done [01:12:17] Yeah. Okay. Okay. After my mission with the experience with DNC 132. It might have been after my. After I got married. It was after my mission, before I started, like, really deconstructing. I had a big issue with polygamy, and I didn't even know all of the actual history. This is me having an issue with it, like, without knowing a lot of things that I guess people know now. I guess they always thought. But I was never taught. So I talked to my dad, who was bishop at the time, and I think he recommended it. I don't know, but it's wild. Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:13:01] Because it's not a normal Mormon book to read for orthodox Mormons.

Stetson Done [01:13:05] Yeah. Even though, I mean, she was, I think, active in everything.

John Dehlin [01:13:08] Yeah. She just passed away and she stayed active, but not orthodox believing.

Stetson Done [01:13:12] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:13:14] So. Or orthoprax yeah.

Stetson Done [01:13:17] Yeah. So I read this book and it was beautiful.

John Dehlin [01:13:21] And we have an episode about it on Mormon Stories. It's basically about how the teaching of polygamy is still doctrinal and still torments Mormon women and men. Even though the church has disallowed the practice of it in this life, it still wreaks havoc amongst Mormons to this day because it's still a doctrinal theological belief for many.

Stetson Done [01:13:45] Yeah. And my dad, again, he was bishop at the time. He was my bishop. This was when we were living in Mesa, and he recommended it. And also it's because I had asked him in a bishop interview. I think it was a temple recommended interview, probably of just like, hey, I have heard people, like, believe polygamy exists after this life, which I didn't know. I don't know. I was just naive. I don't know. I didn't know people believed that. And my parents didn't talk about it.

John Dehlin [01:14:17] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:14:18] And because it's hidden. Yeah. And so I. I just asked him. I'm like, I don't. What. What is that about? Like, I don't believe. How can that be true? Because it was really hurtful to me to think. And my dad said, well, I know Heavenly Father would never do something like, to hurt his children and to make them unhappy. And your mom would be really hurt and she would be really unhappy if we were to be in the celestial kingdom. And, you know, I was a polygamist, and so I think it must just be, like, optional because I know he wouldn't. I know Heavenly Father wouldn't do that. And I think it's beautiful that my dad thinks that. Like, it is. I found out a lot later, like, that's really not what the church teaches.

John Dehlin [01:15:07] No. Joseph Smith taught it was a requirement for exaltation.

Stetson Done [01:15:11] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:15:12] So that empty chairs thing, if you're not polygamous, you're one of the empty chairs.

Stetson Done [01:15:18] Yeah. So at the time, even not knowing all that, I was just upset about polygamy and I was seeking some resolve there. So I read this book, and there's a passage in the book that is. It's beautiful. For better or worse. I think it's what kept me in the church for so much longer. But Carolyn Pearson is saying basically she dismantled all her beliefs. And I am paraphrasing here, but she dismantled all her beliefs and, like puzzle pieces, she picked up each one and asked herself, is this of God? Is this.

Stetson Done [01:15:58] Does this look like a God that loves me? And if it didn't, she Tossed it away. And if it did, she kept it. That's certainly not orthodox, but me at the time reading that, I just thought, okay, okay, then, yeah, I pick up this piece of polygamy and like she wrote in her book, I don't think it is of God. I think it was a mistake of Joseph Smith's. And I was believing. I can't remember the exact year, but this. It was like right after my mission. Maybe I was married, but I was believing in everything, and I let it go. And so I think, too, that's how I kept in the church for several more years.

John Dehlin [01:16:47] And no one can say you didn't try. No one can say you didn't give it your all.

Stetson Done [01:16:50] Oh, I was. Yeah, I tried. I tried because I even thought, maybe I can just be like her, you know? Anyway, so fast forward, I had left. I had asked for. I had filed for divorce. I had moved out. Who the woman's who now? My wife. I had told her, hey, we can't be friends if I still have these feelings for you and you're married, but also don't leave for me, like, type of thing. She had been given this book, no More Goodbyes by Carolyn Pearson, by her mother in law. I don't know why. We still don't. I don't know why, but she had this book. She hadn't read it. It had just been on her shelf and she read it. And I feel like the takeaway from the book is really, like, this is my own opinion, but it's like, if you're gay, you don't have to say in the church, and that's okay.

John Dehlin [01:17:53] Basically, it was written during the Mormon LGBTQ suicide epidemic. Carolyn Pearson's husband had been gay. She nursed him to his death when he died of AIDS. And, you know, fast forward 20 years, there was a suicide epidemic. And she's saying, let's just love our LGBTQ children and youth as Mormons so we don't have to have more goodbyes where they die by suicide. Right. Let's just love them. And if they have to leave the church, let's just love them anyway. You know what I mean?

Stetson Done [01:18:25] Yeah. And it is really a great book.

John Dehlin [01:18:27] It's a great book.

Stetson Done [01:18:28] I recommend it.

John Dehlin [01:18:28] It's a great book.

Stetson Done [01:18:29] So she read it and felt like. And what was holding her back the whole time was like, the church. And so she felt like, oh, I could. I could leave the church and I could live my truth, basically. And so she did end up getting divorced. And, you know, fast forward and we're like, super happy now, but that's what was happening at the time.

John Dehlin [01:19:02] So, I mean, I. I have a question about that.

Stetson Done [01:19:04] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:19:05] Unless there's some else you quickly want to go.

Stetson Done [01:19:07] No questions. Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:19:08] Okay. So you both get divorced and you're dating as lesbian.

Stetson Done [01:19:12] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:19:13] And this reminds me of the Shay and Amanda. Amanda who we've had on twice on Mormon stories because. Yeah. So I guess we need to talk about your gender identity transformation and then also how that affected your eventual wife because she wasn't straight. She was lesbian.

Stetson Done [01:19:36] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:19:37] So if you transition to a man, does that mean she was actually bi and not lesbian? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's. It's something that straight Hess people. Straight CIS people probably struggle to even wrap their brains around.

Stetson Done [01:19:51] Yeah, totally. At Totally fair.

John Dehlin [01:19:53] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:19:54] So we. We date. I mean, we're. We get together and it was just crazy. It was the pandemic. I was in the academy in the beginning of 2020.

John Dehlin [01:20:09] Police Academy.

Stetson Done [01:20:09] The police academy. Yeah. To be a deputy sheriff. And I had, like, so within. When I actually started the academy, by the way, like, I had filed for divorce near the end. Like, she had moved in, she had two kids. It was crazy.

Margi Dehlin [01:20:27] A lot of change.

Stetson Done [01:20:28] Yeah. I also. I had made the decision to get a divorce and leave without before I had made the decision, like, I don't believe the church is true.

Margi Dehlin [01:20:38] Got it. So.

Stetson Done [01:20:38] So that happened. Which we can, I guess, go back to, but her and I were together. I'm like, I felt like I should be feeling totally complete and like, I was super happy, but I just still felt like something was off.

John Dehlin [01:20:58] You were attracted to the person you were with.

Stetson Done [01:21:00] Yeah, totally. Yeah. And it was awesome.

John Dehlin [01:21:03] That's a step up.

Stetson Done [01:21:04] Yeah, totally. And like, I was so. I was super happy and like, like, so many things were so much better.

John Dehlin [01:21:10] And you didn't have to become a mom.

Stetson Done [01:21:12] Yeah, exactly. And. And. And I wasn't wearing makeup or anything, you know, I was wearing whatever, like, dude clothes. And. And I just thought, like, I. I felt like I was just a masculine lesbian. Right. But I just. I still felt like something was off. And I started seeing trans men on social media, talk about their experience.

Stetson Done [01:21:41] I bought a couple books written by trans men about their experience. And it was the first time I had ever read about, read an experience from a trans man ever. And it was like, I didn't think I'd get emotional, but.

Stetson Done [01:22:09] My whole life I felt like something was wrong with me and I didn't understand why. And reading these experiences from Other trans men, I was like, that was me. The way they talked about their childhood, the way they talked about feeling in different situations, everything. I was like, that's.

Stetson Done [01:22:32] That's how I feel. And I had never, ever experienced understanding before. Like, understanding of myself. Connection. I had experienced connection. But it's hard when you don't understand yourself and you still feel like deep down something was wrong. Right.

Margi Dehlin [01:22:58] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:22:59] And so it was through. Through that, like, representation and reading those experiences and connecting with them. I was like, oh, I think I'm man. I think I'm trans. And I was terrified to tell my. We weren't married yet, but I was terrified to tell my. My girlfriend. We were living together. We were essentially married because it would be fair. 100 fair for her to be like, okay, cool. But, like, I'm a lesbian. And so. And I knew that. And that's. That's totally fair.

John Dehlin [01:23:41] And she had left her husband.

Stetson Done [01:23:42] And she had left her husband.

John Dehlin [01:23:43] Yeah. And you didn't know at the time.

Stetson Done [01:23:47] Yeah. So I. I also. I mean, I was afraid of being trans. I loved my job as a. As a deputy sheriff. I still miss it. I really miss it. I loved it. It's like the first and only time I've had a job that I love and feel fulfilled in, and I loved it every day. And this was 2021 at this point now, like, at the time that I was really accepting this about myself and there was a lot of political stuff going on. Right. About trans people.

Margi Dehlin [01:24:29] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:24:30] And. And law enforcement. And I was just. I felt so, like, okay, I'm really not gonna fit anywhere. I felt afraid just to. Even. Even for my job to come out.

Margi Dehlin [01:24:42] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:24:43] So when I first talked to my wife about it, I said, like, hey, I think I'm trans, and it's totally fair if you want to leave. And it was. I was hard for her. Like, at first, I. I don't know. I don't. I don't want to speak for her, but there was probably six months where we weren't sure what our decisions were going to be. Right. And. And at very first, I was like, never mind. I take it back. I take it back. Like, I. I didn't pretend. I didn't say it. Like, I'll. I'm just. I'm just a masculine lesbian. Like, I'm not. I'm not trans.

Stetson Done [01:25:25] I kind of panicked and took it back and. Yeah. And it. And it was hard for her, and I would not have blamed her for wanting to leave through her own journey. She came to the conclusion Like, I am attracted to you, and I don't whether that means I'm attracted to, like, all masculinity or.

Stetson Done [01:25:47] I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I don't have. I don't know if she has all those answers for herself, but she was like, yeah, like, transition. I'm not going anywhere. And. And especially in the early stages, too. Like, I kept reiterating, like, it's okay. Like, if it's okay, it would break my heart, but it's okay if you leave. And I'm not gonna blame you, you know? But we're good. Like, she wants to stay and. And we got married, and, like, we're super happy. And I. I think she would consider herself pansexual, which means. I don't want to define it wrong,

John Dehlin [01:26:33] just that, like, I've heard it described as hearts, not parts.

Stetson Done [01:26:36] That's great. I think that's a great way to put it before. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Like, I was going to say, like, it's the person. Doesn't really matter the gender, but it's the person.

Margi Dehlin [01:26:45] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:26:46] Yeah. So that's my story, and I'm. Of that part. That's that part of my story. And I feel really lucky. It also would have been totally understandable if she wasn't pansexual and decided, hey, I'm lesbian and want to leave. And I recognize that. That. That isn't everyone's experience, but I'm. I don't know. I got lucky. Like.

Margi Dehlin [01:27:08] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:27:09] How's it been for you? Being what you would call your authentic self, both in terms of gender presentation, gender identity, and then also relationships and sexual expression. Yeah. All that.

Stetson Done [01:27:24] Incredible.

John Dehlin [01:27:25] Is it.

Margi Dehlin [01:27:25] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:27:26] Like, I. The way I describe it and is that I. I don't. I don't feel like I'm running from something anymore. Like, I mentioned that a while ago in the timeline of, like, I just kind of felt like I was always running from something and didn't know why. It's like real peace. Like, I feel like I can breathe. And even as a lesbian in a masculine job, dressing masculine, not wearing makeup. Right. Like, I still didn't feel quite. Quite there at. I didn't always know why, but once I transitioned, I was like, oh, I can breathe.

Margi Dehlin [01:28:13] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:28:14] And because I can breathe, like, everything else. Everything else in life is easier. Life's not easy for anyone. Life is still not easy. But everything about my life is, like, so much easier. Like, I just. I can think and I can. I Don't know. I'm so. I'm happy. And I've never known. I had never. I did all the right things, being told, this is what makes you happy. And I had never felt it, and now I feel it. I feel it all the time. Like, everything about my life is better. Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:29:01] So as a Mormon woman, you were told you'd be happy, and as a. As a Mormon woman, as a Mormon mom and as a Mormon wife. And you weren't.

Stetson Done [01:29:10] No, I was. I mean, I said I was suicidal,

John Dehlin [01:29:15] and they say wickedness never was happiness, but orthodox Mormon womanhood was not happiness.

Stetson Done [01:29:25] No. And I even tried unorthodox Mormon womanhood. Right. And, I mean, I tried. Like, I. I hate. I hate the phrase of, like, someone can't leave the church, can leave the church, but not leave it alone, or their whole identity is leaving the church or things like that. Because my whole identity was. My whole identity was the church.

Margi Dehlin [01:29:53] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:29:53] Like, that was. That was everything I gave. I gave my all. Like, I was really trying to

John Dehlin [01:30:02] live

Stetson Done [01:30:02] what they say is the only right way to live. I tried everything, and I was miserable. And now, like, I'm stoked. I'm stoked about life, you know?

John Dehlin [01:30:16] How long has it been?

Stetson Done [01:30:18] How long has it been since I transitioned?

John Dehlin [01:30:19] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:30:21] The end of 2021.

John Dehlin [01:30:23] So four or five years.

Stetson Done [01:30:25] Yeah, five years.

John Dehlin [01:30:27] Five years.

Stetson Done [01:30:28] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's awesome. Like, there's stuff that's hard about being trans, too. Right. But, like, I'm just. My whole life is better. I just feel like I recognize myself even just in the mirror, like.

Margi Dehlin [01:30:46] Oh, yeah. Yep.

Stetson Done [01:30:47] I had a total disconnect from myself always and couldn't figure it out.

Margi Dehlin [01:30:57] Yep. So, yeah.

John Dehlin [01:31:02] And you didn't want to be a mom. How is it to be a dad?

Margi Dehlin [01:31:06] That's right.

John Dehlin [01:31:07] You don't mind being a dad? It wasn't being a parent you didn't want?

Stetson Done [01:31:11] No, no. I love it. It's awesome. I feel so, so lucky. I love it. It's. I love it. I. I wonder. Like, I don't know why I didn't want to be a mom. I think I just knew somewhere deep down, like, I'm not a woman. Like, why would I have a baby? I don't know. Right.

Margi Dehlin [01:31:32] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:31:33] But I love being a dad. It's awesome.

Margi Dehlin [01:31:35] Yeah. Like, what do you love about.

Stetson Done [01:31:47] I think it's easier to, like, paint a picture. I don't know. Like. Like, maybe on a Saturday, I'm sitting there reading or doing a crossword or playing a video game, and my wife's doing the same. And our kids are who, who, like normal kids fight a lot, but like during that moment, they're laughing and playing with each other and our dogs are on the floor, like laying there sleeping. And it's just like I get these feelings of like, just love and happiness, just feeling whole and complete. And I, and, and my daughters are part of that. Like, I love, I love seeing them experience life.

Stetson Done [01:32:42] They're really cool. They're really cool. Right now I have a nine year old and a six year old and they're just. My, my nine year old daughter, she's just so curious about everything and I love seeing that. And parenthood's also hard, right? You're trying to figure out how do I teach my kids, especially after leaving a high demand religion, how do I teach them good without, you know, all this other stuff?

Stetson Done [01:33:12] So it's not like I'm saying it's perfect and so easy, but I love it. Like, I feel so lucky to be part of their life.

Margi Dehlin [01:33:19] Right.

Stetson Done [01:33:19] And I love them. I just feel lucky to be a dad.

Margi Dehlin [01:33:25] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:33:29] It makes me feel whole.

The Church's Transgender Policy and Its Consequences

John Dehlin [01:33:36] So I want to touch on the culture wars that are happening kind of in America, but let's just talk about the church, because such a weird, bizarre thing for me that has LGBT children, but who all left the church when we were excommunicated. And by the way, when we were excommunicated, we didn't know any of them were lgbt. So their LGBT journeys have been out of Mormonism.

John Dehlin [01:34:08] But even then, as someone who's trying to advocate for LGBT people in the church from 2005 until 2015 and even after we saw this progression of like, gays are being more accepted, lesbians are being more accepted. You know, Mormons are starting to march in pride parades and, and Mormons building bridges. And now there's Mormon and gay's website that the church, it was like the church was moving towards LGBTQ acceptance. And that was just all how we were all moving. And then all of a sudden, because of the broader, I think, geopolitical context in America, America turned more anti lgbt, but really anti trans.

John Dehlin [01:34:58] The church did this really weird thing that, you know, it's not like the church became okay with black people and then switched back to being anti black people once it made that change. Black people were good in theory with the church. And once the church moved away from polygamy, it didn't go back.

John Dehlin [01:35:18] This is one of the only times we've seen the church move in a positive direction and then switch back and that's what the trans issue, the church's trans issue in 2020. Trans policies in 2026 are way worse than they were five or ten years ago. Talk about your. Whatever your thoughts and feelings are as you've watched the church get worse on this issue over time.

Stetson Done [01:35:46] Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts and feelings. You know, at some point during my post Mormon life, I guess just a few years ago, I had started, you know, I miss community a lot. And I had, I had gone to a few other churches and I kind of thought in the back of my mind maybe I could just go. Not lie about who I am or anything, but just go and see if I could find community in. In a Mormon ward.

Margi Dehlin [01:36:19] Right.

Stetson Done [01:36:20] I briefly had that thought. It was not too long after that their new policy came out in 2024, which was there's a few things that are, I think, really terrible about it.

John Dehlin [01:36:38] So

Stetson Done [01:36:40] one thing first, Bathrooms. Basically, you have, you have three options now. If you're a trans person at a Mormon church, you can use the. There's like, usually one, like handicap and family unisex restroom. You could use that if you don't want to, or it's occupied, or there isn't one in that building, or a list of reasons, I'm sure you can use the bathroom of your birth sex.

John Dehlin [01:37:15] Which means in your case, you would be going into the women's restroom.

Stetson Done [01:37:19] Yeah. Like, look at me. Can you believe that? I think it's ridiculous.

John Dehlin [01:37:24] I mean, the Mormon women would be uncomfortable with that.

Stetson Done [01:37:27] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:37:27] And you would be.

Stetson Done [01:37:29] Everyone would. I don't want to go in a women's restroom.

John Dehlin [01:37:31] But that's the church's policy today. Right.

Stetson Done [01:37:34] And I think think, oh, I think people are so ignorant that, like, somehow they're only thinking of, I don't know, maybe anyone early in their transition that they think they can tell for some reason you're a. You're really, really a man in air quotes. Or really a woman. It's like that's, that's who they picture as trans people.

Stetson Done [01:38:00] You can't tell trans man or trans woman. You can't always tell. Like, they, I think they don't even think about situations where I would go into a women's restroom. I would never, by the way, I would never do that because that's crazy. Like, when this policy came out, I told my wife, I wasn't, I was half serious. I told her, like, I should go to a church building and hold a sign outside that says, your church wants me in the women's restroom. Like, it's just ridiculous to think about. I. I think.

Stetson Done [01:38:36] So that's your second option. Your third option is you can use the bathroom to which your identity aligns. However, you have to have a friend of that cisgender. Cisgender person of that, like, sex to go in and make sure no one's in there. And, like, keep people out.

John Dehlin [01:38:53] Yeah, like, stand guard.

Stetson Done [01:38:54] Yeah, like, stand guard. So I could go in the family restroom. I could. I could go in the women's restroom, or I can have a cisgender male friend clear out the bathroom for me, stand at the door and say, sorry, my trans friend is in there, and you can't use the bathroom. Like, that's ridiculous.

Margi Dehlin [01:39:15] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:39:16] And humiliating, honestly.

John Dehlin [01:39:17] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:39:19] So that's part of the policy. Another part of the policy is that. Well, it explicitly says, like, if you're. If you need to go to classes that align with your birth sex, your biological birth sex. So, like, I might wear a tie, but I'm gonna be in Relief Society if I go, like, that's. It's just ridiculous.

John Dehlin [01:39:42] Quorum. Gotta go to Relief Society.

Stetson Done [01:39:44] Yeah. Yeah. Which also, it. It expands the definition. I went back and looked at different older versions of the handbook, and when it was referencing transgender individuals, it talked about people who have, like, surgically transitioned, and it used words like that. In this 2024 policy, it's surgically something. It lists a few things. But also socially, like, what does that even. That's up for interpretation.

John Dehlin [01:40:19] So cut your hair.

Stetson Done [01:40:22] Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying.

John Dehlin [01:40:23] A woman cuts her hair to short hair. Has she socially transitioned?

Stetson Done [01:40:26] Right. If you had a very bigoted bishop, maybe he would say, that's socially transitioned. And they. The church might say, well, that's not what we mean. We mean if you change your name and change your pronouns, that's still crazy to me. Like, so they expanded the definition. They have the bathroom thing. Then also.

John Dehlin [01:40:43] Wait, what are the. What happens according to the policy if you socially transition?

Stetson Done [01:40:47] Oh, this applies to you. Just that, like, this applies to. Not just if you.

John Dehlin [01:40:52] The bathroom thing.

Stetson Done [01:40:53] Yeah, any of these things.

John Dehlin [01:40:55] Okay, okay.

Stetson Done [01:40:56] In this policy. That's the new. Their new definition of transgender individuals, which is just problematic when you have, like, members who can interpret things differently. For the example you gave of, well, what about when I was a pre transition, you know, a woman married to a man in the church who cut my hair and wore pants. Like, I feel like this policy opens up a can of worms of interpretation.

Margi Dehlin [01:41:24] Right.

Stetson Done [01:41:24] By listing, like, even if you quote, unquote, Socially transition. Like, what does that mean?

Margi Dehlin [01:41:29] Right. Someone gets to decide what that means. And it's hugely variable.

Stetson Done [01:41:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think the policy would be better if it just said only if you surgically transition. Like, I guess not. Right. It's just. It's just another problem, I think.

Margi Dehlin [01:41:45] Absolutely.

Stetson Done [01:41:46] Then specific classes, then youth. If there's, like, if a youth has socially transitioned or any of those other ways of being trans, if they're at an activity in which both, like, young men and young men are at. They are not allowed to stay the night. So they could go to youth conference, but they cannot stay the night.

John Dehlin [01:42:13] Yeah. Like what?

Margi Dehlin [01:42:14] So arbitrary.

Stetson Done [01:42:15] Yeah. And it's. I think it's just so.

John Dehlin [01:42:18] Because they're going to do what?

Stetson Done [01:42:20] Exactly. And it's. It's humiliating. It's invalidating. Yeah, it's. I. It's awful. Like, when this policy came out, I was. I was far into my transition. I was out of the church, everything. But it still upsets me because there's trans people who might want to be part of the church. And I guarantee you there's trans youth in the church. I have a trans nephew. I asked him if I could say that before this interview. I have a trans nephew. And when this came out, he was a youth in the church. And it made my blood boil. I mean, really, to think about

John Dehlin [01:43:01] just

Stetson Done [01:43:02] people discriminating against him.

John Dehlin [01:43:06] Oh, you gotta go home. We're gonna all out of fun.

Stetson Done [01:43:08] Exactly.

John Dehlin [01:43:08] You gotta go home.

Stetson Done [01:43:09] Right. Like. And logistically, could that even work at every activity? So really, you can't come right to the trek or youth conference or whatever. I mean, it's. It's ridiculous.

John Dehlin [01:43:20] Having to not stay the night. It, in a Mormon mind, implies abuse.

Margi Dehlin [01:43:25] It's an inference.

John Dehlin [01:43:26] I don't think the church is necessarily. They could be thinking that. Absolutely. But most likely they're just. They don't want the confusion of having to decide who sleeps in which group with which youth. So instead, they're just trying to, in their mind, simplify it by just saying, all right, no overnights. And then that simplifies it, but really what it does is just makes it horrific for the kid.

Stetson Done [01:43:50] Yeah, right. Exactly.

John Dehlin [01:43:52] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:43:52] And that brings me to the last point of the policy as far as inferring or implying abuse goes. The last part of the policy I wanted to bring up is that transgender individuals, even if they're just socially transitioned or whatever this list is, they can't serve. They can't have callings with the youth.

Margi Dehlin [01:44:12] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:44:13] And that implies what the Only other group I can think of off the top of my head that shouldn't be serving with youth are people who abuse children.

Margi Dehlin [01:44:22] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:44:22] So automat. I'm. I get really angry. I'm. Yeah, calm down for a second. But by. By putting that policy in place, you're just implying that because someone is trans, they're a threat to children. It really infuriates me because there's actual evil in the world. Like, I've seen it. There's real evil. A real evil. It's like abusing children, but you choose to take issue with people who identify differently and then just throw them in the same category as child abusers.

Margi Dehlin [01:45:02] Yeah, that's right.

Stetson Done [01:45:06] It makes me really upset.

John Dehlin [01:45:08] By the way, who's most likely to abuse a kid?

Stetson Done [01:45:10] Yeah. It seems like bishops.

John Dehlin [01:45:12] I mean, lately in the news, straight men. Straight cisgender men, per capita are the child abusers. Right.

Margi Dehlin [01:45:21] And, I mean, who's most likely to cover for abusers?

John Dehlin [01:45:27] Yeah, same.

Stetson Done [01:45:29] Yes.

Margi Dehlin [01:45:30] You know, and who historically in the Scouting program has covered for abuse? Right. The church has, actually.

Stetson Done [01:45:38] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:45:38] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:45:39] And the only other thing is, I would guess that the church would say, no, we don't really think that transgender individuals are more likely to abuse a kid, but we don't want them proselytizing their trans ideology to kids or slash. Just by representation, influencing kids to think that that's a path they ought to consider explicitly or just by association. Right.

Stetson Done [01:46:08] Yeah, exactly. And I've got news for the church. I didn't know trans men existed. And here you are, and I'm trans.

John Dehlin [01:46:18] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:46:19] And I still transitioned. Yeah, Right. Growing up, I had zero representation. What did that actually do? In practicality, it didn't prevent me from being trans. It made me hurt some people that I wish that I hadn't hurt because I didn't understand my own identity. So I married a guy in the temple, and. And, you know, broke his heart because I realized who I was a few years into that marriage. But it didn't change who I am. It didn't change my reality. And, yeah, I think the church would say, yeah, we just don't want. Well, we don't want, I guess, that representation. But it.

John Dehlin [01:46:59] The idea is that the contagion that can be spread.

Stetson Done [01:47:01] Right.

John Dehlin [01:47:02] Like apostasy, honestly.

Stetson Done [01:47:03] Yeah. Yeah. And it's just. It's crazy to me.

John Dehlin [01:47:08] No exposure to a transgender person would have made me trans.

Margi Dehlin [01:47:12] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:47:13] I'm sorry. It's just. Yeah. It's like gay. No exposure to a gay person would have made me gay.

Stetson Done [01:47:19] Yeah, exactly. It's not, it's not a disease, you know, and if anything, it's not a choice. It's not a choice.

John Dehlin [01:47:28] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:47:28] Yeah. I also tried. I mean, I, I tried. I was lesbian and in a very masculine career, dressing how I wanted, not wearing makeup. I mean, I was doing everything I wanted as far as expressing myself in a masculine way. I still didn't feel like. Right. Because I am trans. So, like, I was making all the choices that maybe. Maybe you get what I'm saying, Like.

Margi Dehlin [01:48:00] Yeah. Yep.

Stetson Done [01:48:02] It's not a choice. So that policy really upsets me.

Margi Dehlin [01:48:07] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:48:08] And wait, there's a little bit more. There's the idea that gender is eternal.

Stetson Done [01:48:12] Oh, yeah.

John Dehlin [01:48:12] That's doctrine. And so that means that you could never, if you were to want to stay Mormon, you couldn't get the priesthood because you were assigned female birth and had chromosomes that were biologically female. But also that. Yeah, I guess a trans female could have the priesthood in the Mormonsher.

Stetson Done [01:48:34] Yeah, I guess. But.

John Dehlin [01:48:35] Except they couldn't because they socially transitioned.

Stetson Done [01:48:38] Yeah, true. And.

John Dehlin [01:48:39] But then if they had the priesthood before they socially transitioned, do they sell the priesthood or is it dormant once they socially transition?

Margi Dehlin [01:48:47] Fraud on many levels.

Stetson Done [01:48:49] Yeah. So the way I went recently, like last week, I looked at just. What does the church website say if you're not trying to get into like the handbook. I just searched lds, transgender. Right. And went to their page on the official church website. And it's, I feel like kind of gaslighty because there's so much written about all God's children are welcome, etc. But then it also says, well, what it actually says is like, if someone has transitioned and detransitioned, they can, they can still enjoy like the, the fullness of the blessings. I don't remember exactly how it's worded, but it's pretty close to like, you can, you can have thought you were trans, you could even have transitioned in some way, but you're not worthy of all the blessings of the church unless you detransition. Then it's, it's just, it makes me upset.

Margi Dehlin [01:49:55] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:49:56] And gender is eternal. So as far as I've like, been able to find and looking at different policies throughout time that the church has had. It wasn't until recently some Talks, maybe in 2020 implied this, but it was like with this policy, and it was Oaks that specifically said, when we talk about gender in the proclamation of the family, we're talking about sex at birth. Biological sex assigned at birth. And I don't think as far as I can tell it had ever been like explicitly defined as that.

Stetson Done [01:50:38] And so I, I did want to say an experience I had with my dad when I came out as trans. And this isn't, this isn't like to disparage my dad or anything. Like, he's freaking awesome. He's one of the very best humans I know.

Stetson Done [01:50:56] When I came out, I was upset about teachings that the church had even before these policies. I was just saying, like, I'm not actually welcome at the church because he had said, well, you could come, you know, if you want to.

Stetson Done [01:51:14] And he has every good intention, you know, saying those things. But I said, dad, like, they invalid their, their own teachings, invalidate what I've, what I've come to know as like my own lived reality. They invalidate my existence.

Stetson Done [01:51:31] And it was before these policies. So what I mentioned was like, gender is eternal. In the proclamation to the family, it says that. And my dad is so sweet and like so loving. And he said, right, like, you're my son, you, you're my son. Before, like things just got, you know, mother nature, biology, things just happen. And I don't know why, but like, gender's eternal. You were my son before and I think that's beautiful.

John Dehlin [01:52:04] You're believing Mormon dad said that to you?

Stetson Done [01:52:06] Yeah. And, and I, I almost didn't even bring this up because I don't want it to seem like I'm criticizing him except just to like emphasize how, how strict the church's beliefs are. Like, I think that's truly beautiful that that's what he believes. And I feel so loved and so validated by him at the time. I also kind of wanted to say, does your stake president know you think that? Like, because that's not what they teach. And now with this, with this policy and in the most recent years, the last couple years, I mean, down a choke's profit and yeah, they're very explicit that no gender is. Whenever we talk about gender, it's biological sex assigned at birth. So there's not even room then to have some compassion for people who are trans.

Margi Dehlin [01:53:15] That's right.

John Dehlin [01:53:15] And again, just the biological reality is that there are intersex people that are either XXY or some other form of chromosomal where it's clear how is that gender eternal Mormons? You know what I mean? How are intersex Mormons gender eternal? What's their gender if they're both male and female chromosomed? Like clearly their Mormon God or secular God has a sense of humor on the Mormon proclamation of the family Right.

Stetson Done [01:53:47] He must. Because it doesn't. Yeah. Like, there are so many questions of, well, these policies don't apply to everyone, so what about intersex people?

John Dehlin [01:53:56] And, and, oh, we'll work it all out in the afterlife.

Stetson Done [01:54:01] That's what they answer. And it's like, okay, then why don't we, can we be like, loving and accepting of gay and trans people in general then, and work it all out after? Right. Like sometimes that's how I feel. Like, I think it's great when people can exist in this, like, unorthodoxy, but at other times I just, I can't wrap my head around it.

Margi Dehlin [01:54:24] Yeah, that's right. And it reminds me almost of where we started, which is you talking about growing up and having this experience within your family. Right. Of what love feels like and how your family viewed gayness. Right. And then you walk out, you go to church or you go, and it's completely different and it's feeling confusing. And I would imagine, like, there's still a part of you in conversations where it can feel really confusing, where it's like, you know, I'm feeling love for you, you're saying this beautiful thing and I'm feeling a lot of love from you and it's confusing.

Stetson Done [01:55:12] Yeah.

Margi Dehlin [01:55:12] Right. Because you also are a part of support, you know, this or this. Yeah. Organization that is really not just not validating but like, perpetuating awful myths and erasing, like attempting to erase the fact that I exist, you know?

Stetson Done [01:55:37] Exactly, exactly. That's, that's like what I struggle with now about the church. My life is awesome, I'm super happy. But that's what I still struggle with is. I also, I don't think the church is like, bad. And so many people I know are genuine and kind and truly some of the very best people who are active members of the church. And I, I think they just don't. Maybe they just don't think about the experience of someone like me.

Reflections on Faith, Family, and Moving Forward

Stetson Done [01:56:22] But it, but then if they do and they are still in it, it's sometimes hard for me to reconcile. At the same time, like, I have to take other people's happiness at face value because I want that same, that same respect.

Stetson Done [01:56:37] And so like I said at the beginning, like, I'm not trying to invalidate or disparage or offend true believing Mormons who are really good people and active in the church. And if they say, like, that's where they're most happy, I kind of just have to. Okay. Like, I have to take that and respect it because I want that same treatment.

Stetson Done [01:56:59] But it is hard personally for. For me to have family members that I don't know. I feel like. I don't know. By being part of the church, aren't you kind of supporting it? But that's one I haven't quite. There's no solution in my mind.

Margi Dehlin [01:57:18] Yeah.

Stetson Done [01:57:18] Because I want them to be happy too. And if that's in the church, great. But it does sometimes hurt.

John Dehlin [01:57:28] Well, I have to make a call because we're bumping up against the two hour mark and honestly, there are a couple more questions I have. So I think we're gonna have to do a quick third part or at least a little bit more of a third part. And so what I'll say is thank you for an amazing part two. Yes, there's a tiny bit more I want to talk to you about. There's a couple church experiences you wanted to share. I want to talk about your own spiritual kind of rebuilding and reconstruction. And then I just. I do want to talk to you about some of the tropes or some of the contemporary issues. Not in any in depth way, but there's detransitioning, there's bathrooms, there's high school sports, there's what to do with kids. It might be not to have exhaustive conversations, but just quick ones.

Stetson Done [01:58:18] Yeah, I'd love to.

John Dehlin [01:58:19] So I'm gonna say thank you for joining us for part two. Thank you, Stetson, for this amazing interview. Margi, thank you for being my co host. I hope y' all have found this useful and if you have, I hope you'll join us for a quick part three where we're going to finish up this episode. Sound good?

Stetson Done [01:58:38] Yeah, sounds good.

John Dehlin [01:58:39] Thanks, Stetson. Thanks, Margi. Thanks for joining us on Mormon Stories. And we'll see you right back for part three. Email us@mormonstoriesmail.com with feedback. We love your comments and questions and we'll see you all for part three soon. Come right back. Thanks.

Stetson Done [01:58:54] Awesome. Thank you.

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