Introducing the Documentary and Its Creators

John Dehlin [00:00:02] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories Podcast. I'm your host, John De Lynn. It is August 28, 2025, and I am super excited today to be announcing a new documentary that is coming out September 1st and September 2nd.

John Dehlin [00:00:20] We're going to give you all the details. The document is entitled Ruby and a Cult of Sin and Influence. And of course, those of you who follow Mormon Stories Podcast will know when we talk about Ruby and Jody. We are talking about Ruby, Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt. Ruby, of course, being the Mormon mom blogger who had the YouTube channel 8 passengers. We've covered these stories at length, and what I'm also super excited to announce, in addition to the release of this new documentary that includes many names and faces you'll be familiar with, including Jesse Hildebrand, Adam Paul Steed, Lauren and John matthias, Natasha Helfer, Dr.

John Dehlin [00:01:04] Julie Hanks. It's an all star cast as far as I'm concerned. The other thing that I'm excited to announce is that today we have on Mormon Stories podcast three of three of the many people involved in helping to make this documentary fantastic. So I am welcoming to the show Olivia Crist Grant. Rachel Bozich. Is that how I pronounce it?

Rachel Bozich [00:01:27] Rachel Bozich. But it works.

John Dehlin [00:01:29] Rachel Bozich. I should have asked beforehand. And Lauren. Oh, my gosh.

Lauren Andrade [00:01:34] Lauren Andrade.

John Dehlin [00:01:36] Andrade. Okay, I'm a bad host, but let's begin by having each of you introduce yourselves and tell us kind of your roles with the film. And, Olivia, maybe we'll start with you.

Olivia Crist [00:01:50] Sounds good. Yeah, no, happy to be here. I'm Olivia Crist Grant and I'm the director and executive producer on the project. One of them.

John Dehlin [00:02:00] Okay. All right, thanks for joining us, Olivia and Lauren, let's have you go next.

Lauren Andrade [00:02:06] Hi. Thank you so much for having us, John. My name is Lauren Andrade and I am an executive producer on the project.

John Dehlin [00:02:13] Executive producer. Okay. Y' all need to educate us about what these different roles do.

Rachel Bozich [00:02:19] I know. I was gonna say. I was like, I can. Yeah. If you throw it at me, I'll explain what they did.

John Dehlin [00:02:24] Okay. And then. And then Rachel, Rachel Bazich.

Rachel Bozich [00:02:27] Hello, Rachel. Executive producer and showrunner. And so essentially, Lauren and Olivia, they chased this story, they developed this story, they brought to the network. And then Olivia with the director, she's like, overseeing, like, the creative, the vision. And Lauren was helping so much with access, securing the people that we're talking to, like, that is her in an all star way. And then myself as the showrunner is coming in to help run the show. So making sure everything from production to post production runs smoothly and helping them with all the creative vision.

John Dehlin [00:03:04] So beautiful. Let's start at the top by. By saying where and when this is all being released, and then we'll end with that as well. Who wants to let our people know how. You know, how and when it's being released and where.

From Shiny Happy People to Ruby and Jodi

Olivia Crist [00:03:22] So it's in. It's in a number of different places, which is great. So it'll. There's two episodes that drop on September 1st. It'll be on Max and ID and then the other two episodes drop on September 2nd. So it's kind of doled out that way.

John Dehlin [00:03:39] Okay. And you'll have to forgive those of us in Utah, Some of us don't know what Max is. I do because I watch it all the time. That's hbo, Max. Right. And then a lot of people won't know what ID is. My wife was like, what's id? And I know that's blasphemy. Blasphemy in your deck of the world, but a lot of people don't know here. So what's ID,

Olivia Crist [00:04:00] ID is Investigation Discovery. So you can also watch the show on Discovery. Plus lots of. Lots of streaming platforms that this will be on. So we're excited.

Rachel Bozich [00:04:10] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:04:10] And Investigative Discovery, is that kind of a true crime channel?

Rachel Bozich [00:04:15] Yeah, they. They're like the home of true crime investigation, investigative documentaries, and you can access that also on, like, your tv, not just streaming wise, so it'll actually premiere and be able to be watched on regular television.

John Dehlin [00:04:31] Perfect. Okay. All right, now that we've gotten that out of the way, I do want to welcome our live viewing audience. If any of y' all are super fans or are really into following this story of Ruby and Jody, we would love to feature at least a few of your questions for our panel. But let's begin by just talking about. Well, first of all, are there productions, you know, docs or other things that y' all have been involved with in the past that you would want to talk about, just as sort of your. Your background? Maybe there's even stuff you've been involved with that people will have seen or know about. So any. Anyone jumping. Olivia, you go first.

Olivia Crist [00:05:13] Yeah, so Lauren and I, we worked on Shiny Happy People, so that was kind of like our last documentary project, which kind of laid the foundation in. In our interest in sort of like the family blogging universe, because it. It very much is kind of the. The next step sort of after reality tv, which reality TV was A, you know, a topic in. In our last documentary project.

John Dehlin [00:05:40] Okay, Shiny Happy People, we did cover that on Mormon Stories, and it was a. It was a phenomenal documentary. I. I hope everyone goes and watches it. So that's. So Olivia and Lauren were involved with that. Anything else we're worth mentioning in terms of Rachel?

Rachel Bozich [00:05:56] Yeah, I did, most recently did the Idaho One Night in Idaho series on Amazon, and before that did the Murdoch murder series on Netflix, which is. Was a similar company, which is how I had the privilege of meeting these two wonderful women. Yeah, I think those are kind of two.

John Dehlin [00:06:15] Okay, awesome. All right, well, let's. Let's have any or all of you jump in and just share what you want. I'm dying to know. You know, we. We Mormons tend to think that at least prior to the Ruby and Jody story, we kind of felt like it's all insider baseball here. It's all Utah, Idaho and Arizona. Nobody else really cares or pays attention to us. And that turns out to not be so true. But what got you all interested in this story?

Lauren Andrade [00:06:44] Yeah, I mean, I think. Yeah, I think like Olivia said, coming off of our last show, Shiny Happy People, that really exposed how the media can mask child exploitation under the guise of family and faith and dealing with, you know, the patriarchy and coercive control. And as we were following this case, we really saw this as a modern version of the same story, just amplified through new media channels like YouTube and social media. So we thought that it was something that was very important and that we really needed to investigate further so that hopefully this doesn't happen again in the future.

John Dehlin [00:07:25] Love it. Olivia, anything you want to add to that?

Lauren Andrade [00:07:28] No.

Olivia Crist [00:07:28] Yeah. Echo, Echo. Lauren. Yeah, I think that, you know, we came into it sort of interested in this family vlogging world, and we're, you know, starting to investigate different stories around that. And then it hit the news that Ruby, Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt had been arrested. And then we really started to zero in on that story because obviously a huge facet of what Ruby did was, you know, she was this massive mommy vlogger. But, you know, as kind of. We continued investigating, we really realized that Jody Hildebrandt really hadn't been explored as much. You know, there's been pieces on Ruby and that family that have been done. So we kind of shifted gears to really focus on Jody. And what we found out was, you know, and, you know, John, I know you've explored on your platform too, just the number of families that she's affected over the years in really devastating ways.

John Dehlin [00:08:26] Yeah. Some comments are already coming in. Renee writes, please tell me you're going to cover how many people she had divorced and get remarried. My brother went to them for five years and had this happen and completely abandoned his kids. I guess y' all can give Renee some darkly good news, right?

Rachel Bozich [00:08:46] Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. Unfortunately, yeah, that is something that we had to cover. And I think, you know, we still don't know how much, like, what the actual number is of people that she completely devastated because it seems like there's so many people that are still dealing with the aftermath and fallout of what happened. And we're hoping that that comes more to light and like Renee flagged, people will be feeling more comfortable to come forward and share what happened to them, because that's what we found is there's just a lot of shame. And it's so horrible what she was able to. To do, you know?

John Dehlin [00:09:22] Absolutely. Renee, viewers under the impression that this is strictly Ruby and not Jody. No, that's wrong, Renee. It's definitely Ruby and Jody. And then fun doctor Julie Hanks has joined us in the chat. And Julie is a star. She's one of the stars in. In the broadcast. So, Julie, you did a great job. I've seen all four episodes. Julie, you are fantastic. Jordan McKay from the Jordan McKay YouTube channel. They're fantastic. Natasha's fantastic. Lauren and John are. It just. You have, like. And Jesse and Adam, you have just, like, an amazing group of people you interviewed. And on the one hand, I was like, wait, there's no.

John Dehlin [00:10:03] There's none of the. The Frankie family. But the. The truth is, number one, there was the documentary that has already come out that really featured them. And I don't think I was sad to not have them on, because it almost was like this documentary was a phenomenal complement to the other documentary. Do you want to talk about that at all?

Rachel Bozich [00:10:26] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:10:26] Yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, Lauren.

Rachel Bozich [00:10:28] Olivia.

Lauren Andrade [00:10:29] Yeah, no, I think we were actually super grateful that the other documentary came out before ours. They really laid a lot of the necessary groundwork and framework and just general understanding for us to kind of just like, dig deeper, peel back the layers, and answer more of these burning questions, like, how did we get here? Why did this happen? And trying to really uncover who was the mastermind behind this all. You know, in ours, I think you'll see that we go really, really deep into the Jody and her playbook of it all.

John Dehlin [00:11:03] Anything that. Olivia?

Olivia Crist [00:11:06] Yeah, no, I think that. And that was, you know, I know we're talking about our documentary. I think that documentary was fantastic. And to echo Lauren, I think, really, you know, it gave you an understanding of Ruby and that family and Kevin and what was happening really, in that house. And really, I think it's fantastic that Sherry and Chad spoke out. You know, Sherry has a book now, and, you know, I think it's great that they had a platform to do that. But, yeah, I think with us, we really wanted to kind of go, you know, obviously we need to talk about Ruby and Jody's relationship and talk about the Frankies as well.

Families Affected and the Role of Mormon Culture

Olivia Crist [00:11:43] But kind of moving beyond that, you know, post episode one, we really dig into other families that were affected. And I think what people really don't realize is just. And I might be repeating myself from earlier, but how many families over this woman's career have been affected across Utah and beyond? I mean, she's been a therapist and a licensed one at that, for a very long time in Utah. So I think that there are lots and lots of people even beyond our documentary that hopefully will feel comfortable coming forward having experienced similar things.

John Dehlin [00:12:20] Love it. Rachel, I want to give you a chance to get in there as well as the showrunners. It stressful when you find out there are other documentaries being released while you're in the middle of making one. Or is it.

Rachel Bozich [00:12:32] I probably have a strange answer that I would say, exciting. This happened when I was on Murdoch Murders two and also on the Idaho series. I think, you know, we. And, like, I speak for myself, but hopefully echoing, like, Olivia and Lauren with this. Like, I just feel so privileged to be able to do what we do. And when you hear that another documentary is coming out, it's always a question of, okay, who do they have and what is their angle, and then what is ours? And I think you said it really well and Lauren echoed it, that it's like we were able to dig deeper in a way here and answer kind of the burning question that we felt, which is, you know, why would Kevin leave his kids?

Rachel Bozich [00:13:10] You know, and that's. I think we got a lot of clarity when all these other families started coming forward and being like, well, this happened to me too, and this is why I did it. So, yeah, it felt very validating, and we hope that everyone sees that, and hopefully there's more stories to come that people feel comfortable sharing.

John Dehlin [00:13:29] Yeah. And I'll just want to say it would be a big mistake to say, I saw the first documentary or series. I don't need to see this one. It's definitely there's almost minimal, minimal overlap. And instead it's actually able to focus a lot more on not just the core players like Jody, but also you really do a lot of work to talk about the. The social and cultural and even religious context that I think, to be honest, I think the Frankie family was hesitant to even want to start to address. And to. To me, that was obviously really important. I think that's maybe why y' all had maybe me involved a little bit in this. But also, I'm just so grateful you were willing to spend almost four hours, you know, in. In an actual released, you know, documentary footage, because that's a lot of detail, a lot of introspection and. And insight to share.

Olivia Crist [00:14:34] Yeah, yeah.

Lauren Andrade [00:14:37] And I.

Olivia Crist [00:14:38] And to kind of piggyback off that, John, I think that, you know, you can't really tell this story without talking about the Mormon Church and really digging into, you know, majority of Jody's clientele were, you know, members of the LDS Church. She did have folks that were not members. Like, that did happen, but I would say majority of who she therapized, you know, were members of the church. And I think understanding the structure of the church, you know, how institutions like the church and this happens in every religion as well, really weaponizes shame and how Jody was somebody who was able to come in and really capitalized in a really sinister way off of this already existing sort of bedrock of shame.

John Dehlin [00:15:30] Did y'. All. Did y' all know a lot about the LDS Church before getting into this, or was this kind of your. Your main introduction to. To Mormons and the Mormon people?

Rachel Bozich [00:15:43] I actually grew up in Idaho and spent a lot of time around. I have a lot of friends and family, adjacent family that are Mormon. And so, yeah, it's always been around me. And I found it, you know, it's really interesting to dive into a story that makes you go back to people that you know and ask questions like, hey, do you know this person? Or, hey, did this happen to you? Or what was your experience here? And helps you dig a little bit deeper. This was definitely my first exposure to, like, the. How deep shame goes around the sexual experience of individuals. So that definitely spawned some interesting conversations,

Olivia Crist [00:16:25] I would say, for sure.

John Dehlin [00:16:27] How about you, Lauren?

Lauren Andrade [00:16:29] Yeah, I would say, honestly, you know, beyond what I had seen in mainstream media, this was really like my crash course into the LDS Church. I thought it was enlightening, speaking to a lot of our subjects who actually taught me a lot on the first call. I'll never forget with Jesse Hildebrandt. They said to me, they're like, so what do you know about the Mormon Church? And I gave very, very top level answer and they were so kind and they honestly sat with me for like over an hour and just broke it all down. The systems, the quorums. You know, this church goes back so far and there is so much power. So I was super grateful to, to learn more really through our subjects and you know, through just reading and trying to, to get to the bottom of all this.

John Dehlin [00:17:21] Love it. All right, Olivia, I want to give you a chance to, to, to weigh in on this

Olivia Crist [00:17:27] similar to Lauren. Like, not, I didn't have, certainly did not have like an in depth knowledge of, of the LDS Church or anything like that, but definitely got a crash course while doing this show.

John Dehlin [00:17:38] There's probably a lot of believing your faithful orthodox Mormons that are like O judge us by Ruby and Jody. We're nice people, we're good people. We're not all, you know, child abusers. And that's true. So I'm imagining you didn't just learn bad or negative things about the LDS faith or the Mormon Church. Do you guys want to share anything positive or constructive or surprising just. Just to put people at ease? Believing Mormons at ease that, that.

Rachel Bozich [00:18:07] Yeah, you should watch this. It's incredible. Yeah, well, I think one thing, and like Lauren and Olivia, please add to this because I think one thing that we, that really stuck out to us so much so is how they create such a community. And you don't really. You can see this in other religions too. But it really blew my mind that every day of the week there was something that was integrating people into the community and creating that sense of not just within your family, but like really within a larger sense of community, which I feel like a lot of people crave and need in order to function in society. So I thought that was quite incredible. You know, something I. Yeah, yeah.

John Dehlin [00:18:49] Anything else? Surprise you guys, y'. All.

Lauren Andrade [00:18:52] Honestly, I think what was super surprising and really cool was just how articulate everyone was. It kind of felt like everyone was like media trained to a degree, some level of preparedness. I don't know if it's self reliance or what, but everyone was just so incredibly articulate and definitely seemed like they did their research like very good students.

John Dehlin [00:19:22] I love it. Somebody's asking what, what the name of the documentary is again. The documentary is called Ruby and Jody A Cult of Sin and Influence. It's going to be released September 1st and 2nd on multiple platforms including ID and also on HBO. Max Right. I'll repeat that here and there. Okay, so really quickly, was this a hard. I don't know if you could even talk about this, but was this a hard doc to sell? Because, as I understand it, you get the idea, then you put together research in a sizzle reel, and then you've got to sell it. Are you guys even wanting or able to talk about the selling process, whether it was hard or not, or is that something you want to avoid talking about?

Rachel Bozich [00:20:11] Lauren and Olivia, you guys take this one.

Olivia Crist [00:20:13] No, I mean, I think we can talk about it. I think it's. We're in an interesting time, I think, too, in, like, documentary filmmaking. I mean, you look back like, I don't know, 10 years ago, and, you know, streaming wasn't, I think, what it. What it is today, which is just such a behemoth and like, you know, no one has really cable anymore. And so I think that there is so much more of an industry for. For documentaries. You know, I feel like on Netflix, you see a new one every week. Right.

Olivia Crist [00:20:43] But with that, you know, there's high competition, I think, to get. Get these stories, which means, you know, getting access to. To the right people, and, you know, it's super competitive. And I think we felt that with, you know, getting this off the ground as well, because, you know, obviously, you know, Ruby and her family, they had their. Their doc. Sorry, not Ruby. Kevin and Sherry and Chad had their documentary.

Olivia Crist [00:21:13] So, yeah, it's definitely. It was definitely, you know, it's always a challenge. But I think that what we liked about partnering with ID is they really respected the fact that we wanted to go deeper and really wanted to shift gears and. And look at the Jody of it all. So, yeah, we were really lucky to partner with them.

John Dehlin [00:21:35] Love it. Anything you want to add to that, Lauren?

Lauren Andrade [00:21:37] Yeah, no, I think I just. Echoing Olivia. I think the competitive nature of it all, you know, when a story like this breaks and sweeps the headlines, it's kind of like a mad dash. I feel like a lot of companies are calling the people and the subjects to try to get them to work with them. And I think what Olivia and I were up against most was talking to these people, introducing ourselves for the first time. We are fairly young filmmakers and trying to really gain that trust and bond so that people did feel comfortable coming to us and allowing us to share their story versus, you know, 25 other production companies out there calling these people, trying to. To get them to. To work with them.

John Dehlin [00:22:25] Love it. All right, is it too much of a spoiler to Tell people just at a high level what the four kind of how you break down the organization of the four episodes. Is that. Is that something we could talk about, just to give people maybe an overview slash a bit, a few teasers?

Rachel Bozich [00:22:44] Olivia, you think so?

Olivia Crist [00:22:45] I think that's it. I'm sending it to Rachel.

Rachel Bozich [00:22:49] Okay, sure. So the first episode is called Meet the Frankies. And we really. We decided when we were putting this together that it was important for you to understand kind of the event that allows us to go back and ask, who is Jody and how. The world asked, who is Jody and how did this happen? Which in order to do that, you need to understand the Frankies. You need to understand what happened there. So we get through the first episode, and by the second episode, you're living in the crime and the arrest of Ruby and Jody. And then we start to get introduced to other characters like you flagged.

Rachel Bozich [00:23:31] Adam Falstead is one of those. And we have them coming forward, as they naturally did when Jodi was arrested, being like, I know more about this woman. You guys should, too. And by the end of the second episode, you really start to understand her playbook much more, how she. We operated and did this to many, many families. And then you will get a tease of what's to come in episodes three and four, which is the second night, which is truly Jesse's experience. And Jesse, they are so incredible, and they take us really into the motive and kind of the deeper, darker look at their aunt and what they experienced.

Rachel Bozich [00:24:14] And by episode four, we're kind of thrown back into why Ruby did what she did and why Jody did what she did. And we think between all the four episodes, we kind of explain and answer all of that, which is, why did this happen?

Rachel Bozich [00:24:31] How did Jodi do what she did for so long? Why did she do it? And then also, you know, give some solutions and do say that more needs to be done, because this really should never happen again. So let me know if I forgot anything.

John Dehlin [00:24:48] Love it. Love it. Olivia and Lauren, anything else you want to add as teasers?

Olivia Crist [00:24:52] I think Rachel did a good job of summing it up. No, I think that, you know, you kind of start in the world of

Rachel Bozich [00:25:00] family blogging, and then you.

Olivia Crist [00:25:02] You. You end up and you, you know, by the end of the series with really a much larger story and commentary.

John Dehlin [00:25:10] So.

Olivia Crist [00:25:10] Yeah, but I think that a theme that we. We've seen throughout this. This series is this sort of idea of dehumanization. And I think that you can really track that with how, you know, The. The kids, you know, were sort of used as props on social media vis a vis, like Ruby's channel. And then if you follow that line all the way down, you know, you see dehumanization in all of these different stories as well.

John Dehlin [00:25:40] We have a. We have several international listeners, and a few are asking, is this going to be made available internationally? Lisa is asking from the UK That's Lisa Boris. And then Lisa A. Is saying, what about New Zealand? Is that even. Is it too early to talk about international release?

Rachel Bozich [00:25:59] No, it's. It should be available overseas. They will be able to watch it, like, on.

John Dehlin [00:26:03] On September 1st and 2nd or at some point afterward, or do we know?

Rachel Bozich [00:26:09] I think on September 1st and 2nd. But we can follow up with you, John. Clarity for Lisa and Lisa, but they will be able to watch it.

Adam Paul Steed and Jesse Hildebrandt's Stories

John Dehlin [00:26:20] So really quickly, is it okay if we talk about Jesse and Adam really quick? Like, Adam. Adam was so. Adam Paul Steed was so, so traumatized that when I interviewed him in the first part of the interview, he literally just disassociated, and I had to stop the interview, send him home, and then bring him back the next week to complete the interview. And he was almost. I don't want to say catatonic. I don't know quite the right words, but he comes across as so calm and collected. So y'. All. I don't. I don't know if y' all gave him a benzo or if you're just really good at helping people feel relaxed, but I just have to say I was super impressed with how calm and effective Adam was at telling his story, given how much I know he was traumatized.

John Dehlin [00:27:16] So, you know, the. Adam Paul Steed is one of the top viewed Mormon stories episodes of all time. So I just. I just wanted to throw that to give you all a chance to talk about working with Adam or things Adam shared to any extent you feel comfortable, because he's obviously known broadly in the Mormon stories community.

Rachel Bozich [00:27:34] Yeah.

Lauren Andrade [00:27:35] Well, go ahead, Lauren.

Rachel Bozich [00:27:40] No, I was just gonna. I was gonna actually say I was like, the person to really speak to this is Lauren. She just, you know, I think with all of our characters, and this is on this project and on others, it's all about building relationships with these people. And for a long time, like, it starts from the moment you get someone to take that first call and say, hey, are you interested in telling your story? Because really, like, we are so thrilled to be able to do what we do, but we're just giving them a platform to share their story. And so Lauren, you can definitely speak to, like, forming that relationship.

Olivia Crist [00:28:13] Yeah.

Lauren Andrade [00:28:14] Yeah. Well, first of all, John, thank you for also featuring Adam. We watched that, and that also informed our series as well. Yeah. I mean, with Adam, you know, I think he was. He's still really just processing everything in real time. He's so courageous and brave to have come out and share as much as he has. I will say we definitely spoke a lot. We probably chatted weekly, almost daily for about over a year. So we definitely formed a very, like, trustworthy relationship where I'm glad that it did read that he was comfortable with us because we, at the end of the day, that's what we hope for. We don't want them to, you know, go into this situation and feel completely re. Traumatized and freaked out that there's now a camera in their face. We really did build, like, a very positive relationship throughout over the course of a year.

John Dehlin [00:29:17] And it's so crucial because it's arguable that there's no connections without Adam Paul Steed. And I'll tell you why I say that. Because obviously, Jody Hildebrandt eventually loses her license because of the way she violated Adam Paul Steed's privacy, especially as it relates to BYU and the honor code violations and then him getting expelled. And I kind of conceptualize Jody Hildebrand's pivot to connections as being a result of her losing her license. And. And of course, it becomes an extension of the techniques that she practiced on with people like Adam and others. Olivia, I want to give you, I guess you a chance to respond to that as well. Not to put you on the spot.

Olivia Crist [00:30:10] No, you're fine. Yeah, I think that's, you know, Adam speaking on that and his role and, you know, the. The doppel of it all. I'm not sure how much all your viewers are familiar with this, but, you know, because of those violations, you know, both a. A dual relationship and, you know, a lot of ethical violations that Jody was doing, you know, her license ended up being put on probation for, I believe, 18 months. It was reinstated eventually.

Olivia Crist [00:30:43] But to your point, John, and this is something we talk about in the series, I think that that almost emboldened her to, you know, my license is on probation. I'm going to go now, become a life coach, and I'm really going to dig in with this connections idea.

Olivia Crist [00:31:02] And, of course, you know, the life coaching industry is fraught with, you know, I believe, like, really no regulation. So I think that, you know, no regulation. Plus Jody Hildebrandt is, of course, a Recipe for disaster.

John Dehlin [00:31:18] Yeah, absolutely. Okay. There's somebody saying, please include links to past Mormon stories episodes. Julia and Brooklyn will absolutely, in the show notes include our interviews with Adam, Paul Steed and Joe and Jesse Hildebrandt. But, but maybe, maybe watch those after you watch Ruby and Jody, a cultist in an influence, because I think that will be a really great introduction. And then you can dig in more to Adam, Paul Steed and Jesse Hildebrand and get even more of the details. I would, I would say start with Ruby and Jody, a cult of sin and influence, and then go from there. That's just my opinion. I thought.

John Dehlin [00:32:00] I really do want to say that I sensed y' all took kind of trauma informed care and trauma informed interviewing very seriously. And I, and not all professionals that I've worked with take that seriously. So I just want to give y' all props for my, my perception that y' all were very professional in that regard.

Lauren Andrade [00:32:22] Thank you.

Rachel Bozich [00:32:23] Thanks a lot.

John Dehlin [00:32:25] And then obviously, Jesse, if there was one, one person that every single media outlet on the planet wanted to have access to, it's Jesse Hildebrandt. And as I understand it, this was the kind of the exclusive that Jesse agreed to do. So if anybody wants to really, and I'm not sure about that from a legal perspective, but I mean, if anybody really wants to hear Jesse's, you know, processing not just of her experiences with Jody as her aunt, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, but also how she processed hearing the news and then following the story and even to the point of the verdicts, this is the place to get the full Jesse Hildebrandt reaction.

John Dehlin [00:33:14] And I'll just say also, you were able to pull out emotion from Jesse that I didn't see even in my four plus hours with them. And so I just wanted to give you. And also the cinematics, the cinematography, the colors, the lighting, they're just chef's kiss.

John Dehlin [00:33:34] Jesse and Adam, both, they just. It's spectacular. Julie looks great. Natasha looks great. I, I don't love how I look, but I think that's more my, my problem. But do you want to talk about working with Jesse and, and having that kind of semi exclusive with Jesse? Because that is a, in and of itself, that's a reason to watch all four episodes. Go ahead. I've talked too much.

Olivia Crist [00:33:57] You're great.

Rachel Bozich [00:33:58] Well, first I just want to say, like, the, all the looks and everything. Like, that's DP Brandon Riley. He's incredible. And we had an incredible, like, crew just on set who you met John and Like who set that all up and our set designer. It's just like this can't be made without them too. But yeah, I think with Jesse, like Lauren, Olivia, you guys should speak to that.

John Dehlin [00:34:22] Yeah, I mean, y' all went to Seattle, right? Didn't you actually go to Seattle?

Lauren Andrade [00:34:26] No, I just, it was a, it was a cold call. Really grateful that they did answer. I know that like I had said earlier, you know, when a case like this comes out, there's a swarm of media and when we first connected with Jesse, they, they were real with us. They said, you know, over 30 companies are reaching out, all these networks are working, watching out. So we were just really glad that one. They agreed to even just have the conversation with us and true. Really trust us with their story. You know, it is like a very vulnerable place for them. So the fact that I think we connected with them so well is what informed them to eventually sign with us. And yeah, they're just, they're so incredible. They're such a force. I'm so excited for everyone out there to see the press that they're going to be doing and.

Rachel Bozich [00:35:21] Yeah.

Lauren Andrade [00:35:22] And hearing more about their story through our show.

John Dehlin [00:35:26] Did you say Jesse will be doing some press around this?

Rachel Bozich [00:35:29] Yeah.

Olivia Crist [00:35:29] Yes.

Lauren Andrade [00:35:30] I don't know if I should. Was allowed to say that.

John Dehlin [00:35:32] No, that's fine. We don't have to get into details, but that makes me really excited. No, I just, I mean, I don't want to get too gleeful because I know that for Jesse this is a very emotional thing.

Lauren Andrade [00:35:44] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:35:44] And Jesse's a very private person to the point that Jesse, I think, moved to another country to kind of shield themselves from some of this spotlight. But for the sake of the story and for maybe making things better for other people, I'm very, very happy to hear Jesse will be doing some press. Olivia, did you want to add anything about working with Jesse and what just she shared?

Olivia Crist [00:36:13] Yeah, I mean, I mean, just to echo Lauren, Jesse is like amazing and brave and courageous and I can't, I mean, this is awkward for me. I'm a behind the camera person. But one of the reasons we're grateful that Jesse, you know, is, is doing some press is they're just so articulate and have just done. Have been through Helen back and you know, has done a lot of work. And so I think that really, that there's nobody better to really speak on this project, be in this project, obviously, than Jesse. So we're really thankful as I know

John Dehlin [00:36:52] you all have a hard stop. So let me, let me Ask maybe the biggest question that I think about and get all of your perspectives on this. And of course, any, any answer is fantastic. What I'm always on Mormon stories, what I'm always stuck with on a true crime story, is kind of, you know, two ends of the spectrum. One end of the spectrum is it doesn't matter. The group of people, there's going to be bad eggs. Atheists, Catholics, Jews, Mormons, it doesn't matter.

Understanding the Case in Its Religious Context

John Dehlin [00:37:20] There's always bad eggs. And so you can't really tie the culture or even the religion or the faith to the crime, because there's plenty of people in the faith or in the culture that don't kill or don't murder or don't torture or don't abuse. So that's like one end of the spectrum. And then there's the other end of the spectrum that I think is where my bias is, which is always, almost always seeing Mormon doctrine, Mormon theology, Mormon history, Mormon culture, Mormon practice as being central to any bad that kind of emerges. And I know the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. And so I would love to get each of your takes on what you feel comfortable sharing about the extent to which this story belongs on one side of the spectrum, on the other, or somewhere in the middle. How's that? And Rachel, I'll have you start. And that will give Lauren and Olivia a chance to also compare their response.

Rachel Bozich [00:38:18] Yeah, well, I mean, I think the thing with this story is that when you do take away the Mormon element just for a second, it's just a deeply human story about someone who actively sought to destroy families. And I think that at its core is what this is.

Rachel Bozich [00:38:41] And now whether she believed she was doing it for good, whether her thoughts were deeply ingrained. You kind of spoke to this a little bit too, John, of like the Mormon doctrine being so ingrained that she did think she was doing something. You know, I think that's where it kind of falls in the middle for me.

Rachel Bozich [00:38:59] But I do think, like you said too, like, this could have happened in a lot of different religions. And I think high demand religions and religious institutions that do, you know, that do speak and encourage you to think a certain way or have a lot of rules inherently, there's rules that get broken. And so I think, you know, there's. This was just kind of a place for Jody to come about. But it's not to say that if she was in a different religion, this couldn't have happened, you know, So I think that's kind of how we found in the middle There.

John Dehlin [00:39:37] But, yeah, I love it. I know you got to be diplomatic also answering this question. Olivia. I'll give you a chance to answer and then. And then learn. Okay.

Olivia Crist [00:39:46] Yeah. No, I mean, like I said earlier, I think you really can't tell this story without understanding the Mormon Church. I think that, you know, the two go, you know, sort of hand in hand. But at the same time, you know, I think it was important to us as filmmakers for people in the LDS Church to watch this and, you know, people who are not to watch this.

Olivia Crist [00:40:10] So that's why in our series, we interviewed people, you know, sort of like across the faith spectrum. You know, some are still in the church, some are not, and really just giving everyone a chance to share their perspective and, you know, leaving it sort of up to the audience what. What they think. And I think it's a really. I mean, this story has so, so, so many layers.

Olivia Crist [00:40:33] I do think the shame element in. And like I said earlier, this happens and in all sorts of religions, but I think the shame element is particular to this story because that's what Jody was able to weaponize. But then at the same tune, you know, the LDS Church is all about families, and Jody was actively destroying them. So, you know, there's a lot of sort of, like, confluences in this story that I think is just interesting to unpack.

John Dehlin [00:41:03] Paradox. All right, Lauren.

Lauren Andrade [00:41:05] Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, you need to kind of understand the Mormonism of it all so that you can understand that the family hierarchy, this is kind of a patriarchal society. There's an emphasis on obedience and moral purity. And you need to understand that, because that is. Those are things that Jody wielded and used to manipulate her victims. At the same time. You know, this story is really not about the Mormon Church. It's, you know, it's asking these meaningful questions about cultural pressures, obedience, shame. It's not necessarily just an indictment of religion. It's kind of a larger case study and how authority, trust, and manipulation can be abused under any system.

John Dehlin [00:41:56] Yeah. And for our believing, you know, faithful Mormon listeners out there, this. This is not. This movie is not going at the Mormon Church. Think it deals with the. More. With the LDS Church very respectfully and is. Is not in any way seeking to defame or attack the church. That's just. That's my impression, so I'm sharing it. I'm also going to share. There's the. There's the photo of. Of three of the four of us at the screening. This happened, what, Tuesday. Tuesday night. Is that right?

Olivia Crist [00:42:26] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:42:27] And it was super fun and such an honor to be able to come out there with you again. You know, Jordan McKay, ex Mormon YouTubers are there are in it. Lauren and John Matthias have hidden True Crime, Natasha Helfer Parker, Dr. Julie Hanks again, Jesse Hildebrandt and Adam Paul Steed. Any other Friends of Mormon Stories podcast that I should mention? I should say maybe even Visions of Glory has an appearance. Maybe it's possible. I mean, you'll just have to tune in. Tune in to see. All right, well, before we wrap up, any final things y' all want to say about the making of this or about your impressions of it? And then of course, we'll. We'll plug finally how people watch it again. Rachel, any final thoughts you want to add before we tune out?

Rachel Bozich [00:43:19] Yeah, I'm just, I'm excited for people to watch it. I'm excited for the conversations that we hope it's sparks. And I think one of my goals is always to help educate and I learned so much working on this. And I just hope people leave more curious and intrigued than before. And I do hope you watch watch it and then like John said, go and watch his personal interviews with Adam and Jesse because they just, they dive in a way because Adam's story has so many twists and turns, we couldn't fit in.

John Dehlin [00:43:49] And so, yeah, just as a, as a buffer between you, Rachel and Lauren and Olivia, I'll just say I really believe that this show, and I said this in the screening, this show is going to help the LDS Church be more healthy. It is a constructive look at two people that weren't. That were acting badly. But most importantly, I believe it's going to help the Mormon Church and the Mormon people make constructive changes to help keep things like this from happening again. The only real thing that changes the church in the culture, in our opinion, is constructive exposure. And that's what y'.

Rachel Bozich [00:44:34] All.

John Dehlin [00:44:34] That's the gift that y' all have given my people. And I said that at the screening and I'm going to say that now. Thank you all. It's meant so much to me to see such a thoughtful and in depth coverage of our people. And with that, Lauren, I'll have you go next.

Lauren Andrade [00:44:48] Yeah. Well, thank you so much, John, and can't thank you enough again for coming to the screening and participating in this. Also just so grateful that we are able to spotlight these survivors and give them a platform, because I think, you know, for all of us, at the end of the day, our goal, like Rachel said, is to create Conversations around this and like you said, constructive feedback just really to spread awareness and accountability so that hopefully we don't hear about stories like this in the future.

John Dehlin [00:45:18] I love it. Okay, Olivia, any final impressions about the film?

Olivia Crist [00:45:23] Pressure's on. No, honestly. Thank you so much, John. That feedback, like, means the world because that's really. That was really our goal in all of this for people to watch and examine and, you know, just to Lauren's point, create conversation. I will say that, you know, we were excited for everybody to watch this series, but if you're someone who's been through, you know, trauma in your life or have. Have been touched in your life by the themes of this story, I'll just offer a. A trigger warning, of course, but before diving in and watching. But yeah, we're super, super grateful for your voice, John, and everyone in it and excited to see what people think.

John Dehlin [00:46:06] So everybody needs to go watch this and invite their friends and family to watch it on their own TVs so that you get individual views. Watch it alone, but get as many people to watch it with you simultaneously. No, I'm just kidding. Remind everybody that the channels and the times again, Rachel.

Rachel Bozich [00:46:28] September 1st and 2nd on HBO Max and ID display. Discovery Channel Investigation. Discovery Channel.

John Dehlin [00:46:37] Okay. And I don't know if y'.

Rachel Bozich [00:46:39] All.

John Dehlin [00:46:39] Oh, what's that, Rachel?

Rachel Bozich [00:46:41] I forgot the times.

John Dehlin [00:46:43] Oh, what are the times? 7pm on all time zones or I

Lauren Andrade [00:46:49] don't know, nine, eight central.

Rachel Bozich [00:46:51] There we go. Nine central.

John Dehlin [00:46:54] Okay, really quick. Olivia, Lauren or Rachel, are y' all able to talk about anything you're doing next? Or is that top secret or you don't want to share just for fun and it's okay if you don't want to talk about it or.

Rachel Bozich [00:47:07] Yeah, I am on. I can't say what it's about, but I am on a Netflix series next, so stay tuned.

John Dehlin [00:47:17] All right. All right, we'll keep in touch on that. Rachel, Olivia and Lauren, are y' all going to continue working together? And if so, do you want to share anything about that or not yet?

What's Next and Where to Watch

Olivia Crist [00:47:29] Yeah, no, we. We actually have a company together called Chick Entertainment and you know, kind of coming up for air after this project and, you know, in development on the next thing. So can't. Can't say anything yet. But yeah, still out here trying to do the next thing.

John Dehlin [00:47:47] Is it grueling to make a documentary? Like, is it grueling?

Lauren Andrade [00:47:52] Yeah.

Rachel Bozich [00:47:54] So Olivia, I don't know if we can get. Olivia got married this year. I'm also getting married this year. And so it's like making a documentary and planning a wedding is that is a feat?

Olivia Crist [00:48:06] I wouldn't recommend it.

Rachel Bozich [00:48:10] No, we're very proud. But, yeah, it's. It's a lot. But we're, again, just, like, so grateful to be able to do what we do and give people a platform to share their story.

John Dehlin [00:48:20] So do. Okay, do y' all have any plans to relax and kick back and decompress from all this? Maybe that's the question I should have asked.

Rachel Bozich [00:48:28] The question that should have been.

John Dehlin [00:48:29] Or is it just on to the next thing?

Rachel Bozich [00:48:32] Mine's on to the next thing, and my wedding's still coming up, so I know my fiance is not happy about

Olivia Crist [00:48:36] that, but, yeah, I pushed my honeymoon for, you know, the show and stuff like that, so.

John Dehlin [00:48:42] So that's coming.

Olivia Crist [00:48:44] That's coming. Doing that next. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:48:45] Oh, good. Lauren. Doing anything to relax or heal.

Lauren Andrade [00:48:50] Gotta figure that out.

John Dehlin [00:48:52] Okay, I. I hear you. I hear you. Okay, everyone, well, it's time to wrap up again. The show is. The show is Ruby and Jody, a cult of sin and influence. You can see it on id. You can also see it on HBO Max, both domestically and, as we understand it, internationally as well. Please watch it, please share it. Please spread the word. Please do your own shows about it.

John Dehlin [00:49:23] TikTok, Instagram, please like this episode. Please subscribe. Please share this episode. Get everyone excited about it. You know people, you know, Mormons and ex Mormons. I think we all love it when people help shine a spotlight on our culture. And I think we all agree that sunlight is the best disinfectant. So let's all start a massive grassroots social media campaign to make it so all our friends, all our family, all our neighbors, and all the people that we went to school with all watch this show. And let's make it the most streamed thing on the different streaming services, at least for the next few weeks. Is that. Is that an okay goal? Can we all agree to that as a goal?

Olivia Crist [00:50:10] I feel like you're our hype man.

Rachel Bozich [00:50:11] I know.

Lauren Andrade [00:50:12] I love it.

John Dehlin [00:50:14] I love it.

Rachel Bozich [00:50:14] I love it so much.

John Dehlin [00:50:16] Okay, well, let's see if I can get the pronunciations right. Elizabeth, Chris Grant, thank you for coming on Mormon Stories. I hope you'll come again.

Olivia Crist [00:50:24] Thank you.

John Dehlin [00:50:25] And Lauren Andrade, is that right, Lauren?

Lauren Andrade [00:50:29] Correct?

Olivia Crist [00:50:29] Yes.

John Dehlin [00:50:30] And Rachel Bozich, right?

Lauren Andrade [00:50:32] Yes.

Rachel Bozich [00:50:32] Oh, you crushed it. Great job.

John Dehlin [00:50:34] Next time, I'll ask beforehand. Anyway, Olivia, Lauren, and Rachel, thank you so much. Thanks for this gift to our people. Y' all keep doing great work. And please let us know if we can ever feature or showcase anything else you do because we're here for it. All right, Perfect.

Lauren Andrade [00:50:50] Thank you so much.

John Dehlin [00:50:52] All right. Thanks so much for coming on Mormon Stories. Y' all. Take care. And again, the show is Ruby and Jody, a cult of sin and influence. HBO Max, ID discovery, y'.

Rachel Bozich [00:51:05] All.

John Dehlin [00:51:06] Check it out. Thanks so much for joining us today. Also please check out our Jesse Hildebrandt and Adam Paul Steed interviews and all the amazing episodes we did with Lauren, Lauren Matthias from Hidden True Crime and Mindy and Megan. We did so many episodes on Visions of Glory and on Sherry Frankie. We've got a lot of back catalog if y' all want to hear analysis and in depth analysis from Mormons so check out that all as well. But after you watch the documentary. Thanks again for joining us today. Everyone be good to each other, be kind to each other, watch the show and we'll see you all again soon on another episode of Mormon Stories podcast. Take care.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.