Introduction and Welcome

Part 1 of 2 · Ep. 667

Stephen Bloor [00:00:00] 1, 2, 3.

John Dehlin [00:00:07] Mormon Stories Podcast is a production of the Open Stories Foundation. All donations to Mormon Stories are fully tax deductible and go directly towards keeping the podcast alive and towards building a community of support for Mormons like you. To support the podcast or to join the community, please become a monthly subscriber today@mormonstories.org. hello and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories Podcast. I'm your host, John Dehlin. It's November 4, 2016, and we are having another interview as part of our series on Mormons in the UK in the United Kingdom. And this is a really cool interview for a number of reasons. This one I've wanted to do for quite some time. The interview is with Stephen Bloor. Stephen was a former bishop in the LDS Church. I learned about him. When did you stop being Bishop, Stephen? What year was that?

Stephen Bloor [00:01:09] 2011.

John Dehlin [00:01:10] Okay, so I learned about Stephen around that time because as I understand it, Stephen, I think you had a faith crisis while you were bishop. Is that right?

Stephen Bloor [00:01:19] Yes, that's right.

John Dehlin [00:01:20] So he had a faith crisis while he was bishop. He ended up, you know, losing his testimony while bishop, and we'll talk about what happened after that. So that's just fascinating, sort of what it's like to grow up in the uk, what Stephen's life was like before he became bishop, what it was like to be bishop, and then what it was like to have a faith crisis in the UK while you're bishop. That's all interesting stuff. But what even more fascinating is that he's been living a life since then. And so to understand what it's been like to be a post Mormon in the uk, but then sort of the really additionally fascinating piece of info is that Stephen was excommunicated without his knowledge. He was not given a chance to attend a disciplinary council, and he simply received a letter saying he was no longer a member without explanation. And so all that's been sort of happening recently. And so it's sort of breaking news because Stephen is, you know, in real time dealing with, dealing with the fact that he's been excommunicated in total violation of the church's own policies regarding how to handle church discipline and disciplinary councils. So, Stephen Bloor, welcome to Mormon Stories.

Stephen Bloor [00:02:42] Hi, John. Good to speak with you at last.

Growing Up Mormon in Cornwall, UK

John Dehlin [00:02:45] Okay, so let's just start. Tell us a bit about your history, your upbringing in the church in the uk.

Stephen Bloor [00:02:54] Well, I was born not in the Covenant as such, because my parents hadn't actually got sealed in the temple when I was born. But they got baptized and they were married. I was born about a year later, they went to the temple. I must have been about four years of age. We all got sealed together in the London temple. So that was quite a scary thing for me at the time as a four year old when I was called into the sealing room. But yeah, I was born in the church, but actually sealed to my parents later.

John Dehlin [00:03:29] Okay, and what part of England sort of raised in?

Stephen Bloor [00:03:35] Well, I was raised in the Midlands, so just north of Birmingham, between Birmingham and Manchester, place called Stoke on Trent. It's often called the potteries.

John Dehlin [00:03:46] And what did your parents.

Stephen Bloor [00:03:47] Where Wedgwood came from.

John Dehlin [00:03:48] What is that?

Stephen Bloor [00:03:51] Wedgwood? It's a type of very fine pottery.

John Dehlin [00:03:54] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:03:55] Royal Dalton. It's world famous. The area is world famous for china. For bone china.

John Dehlin [00:04:03] Got it. And what did your parents do for a living?

Stephen Bloor [00:04:07] My father was a policeman when I was growing up and until I was 13, so. And he was a bishop as well. I mean, he was a branch president and then he was a bishop for quite a few years.

John Dehlin [00:04:20] Of which ward?

Stephen Bloor [00:04:23] A couple of wards. One in the Midlands, a place called Biddulph near Stoke on Trent and then Houston, where we moved when I was 13, which is where I was bishop to a few years later.

John Dehlin [00:04:35] And where is that? Is that in the same general area?

Stephen Bloor [00:04:38] It's a long way. Oh, from us, it's a long way away. It's about 360 miles south near a place called Land's End. It's in Cornwall.

John Dehlin [00:04:47] Got it. Okay, good. Okay. So your, your dad was a policeman. What did he do after being a policeman again?

Stephen Bloor [00:04:55] He became a watchmaker, watch repairer and jeweller in the town that we live in now called Helston. And he worked very hard. I mean, he was a bishop and a full time businessman. Five children. But growing up, he was very dedicated. My dad put everything into his calling. Yes, he loved us, but he served the members of the ward to the best of his ability. So we hardly saw him really. But when we did and he did spend time with us, it was quality time.

John Dehlin [00:05:31] Okay. And you said he had five children?

Stephen Bloor [00:05:36] Yes, there's five of us. I'm the oldest of five.

John Dehlin [00:05:38] Okay, oldest of five. So tell us a little bit about, for you, what it was like growing up in the uk. Was your mom a stay at home mom then?

Stephen Bloor [00:05:47] Yes, she was for most of my life anyway. As I left home to go on a mission, my father father opened a shop and then she became a shop with him.

John Dehlin [00:05:58] Okay, cool. Okay. So you would have been. Let's just kind of try to put the chronological setting. You would have been, let's just say a teenager. Kind of in what decade or what kind of time, year span?

Stephen Bloor [00:06:13] Like 70s, late late 70s through the 80s. I was a teenager.

John Dehlin [00:06:19] Okay, so yeah. Okay, so what was it like to grow up in the UK during that time? Number one, in what ways was your family stereotypically Mormon versus not? Did you have the family home evening, the scripture study, all that like talk about the ways that Mormonism was manifested in your family's day to day life?

Stephen Bloor [00:06:45] We lived it to the, to the utmost. We had all those things like Fermi, I'm evening daily prayer, twice a day, scripture study, seminary, we did all those things. Youth groups in those days, in the late 70s, early 80s, you probably remember, youth included roadshows with dancing competitions at state level, music competitions. There was a lot going on and my life revolved around church more than anything else. And I was a very good missionary. I used to bring in my friends from school. In fact, when I got to 16, I invited the missionaries into school. I had a good relationship with the re teacher, the religious education teacher, and I managed to get the missionaries to come into school and talk to the rest of the kids, my peers at school, several times. I was a very keen missionary as a teenager.

John Dehlin [00:07:42] Okay, so it sounds pretty standard Mormon experience. Did you guys have like ward or stake or regional dances?

Stephen Bloor [00:07:52] Oh, yes. I mean, all the time. It was something we got excited about. There wasn't many, I mean, I suppose in our area there was about maybe 20, 15 to 20 youth of all ages, but spread over three, three towns. So the area of our ward, our ward boundary stretched about an hour and a half across. So you're talking about 40 to 50 miles.

John Dehlin [00:08:22] Right.

Stephen Bloor [00:08:22] So people, people had to travel from all those areas.

John Dehlin [00:08:26] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:08:26] But we were willing to do it, you know, and our stake center was an hour and a half away from our ward.

John Dehlin [00:08:34] It's almost like the more challenging it is, the more compelling it is to people. They kind of like that sacrifice, that commitment sometimes actually makes the level of commitment, makes people more engaged. Would you say that's true?

Stephen Bloor [00:08:48] Yeah, absolutely. We were very dedicated members, totally committed members.

John Dehlin [00:08:57] Really quick, name the top five songs that you like to dance to at your steak dances.

Stephen Bloor [00:09:03] I can't remember. Can't remember, honestly.

John Dehlin [00:09:09] And it name some of the groups that were the most popular.

Stephen Bloor [00:09:12] Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was very popular in the early 80s.

John Dehlin [00:09:17] Okay, all right. I had to ask. I always have to ask. Okay, so in terms of Your life, your spiritual life growing up, did you feel like you always had a testimony? Were there? Did you ever make mistakes that really tormented you? Did you. Did you pray and get some answer that the church was true? Did you ever wind up in the bishop's office for mistakes you had made? Talk about your spiritual life prior to your mission, if you served a mission?

Stephen Bloor [00:09:52] Yeah, I did. Being a bishop's son puts a bit of pressure on. On a person, so I always felt like I had to be at my best all the time. My dad was a very good Mormon father in the sense that he set me goals. You know, one day you're going to be a missionary, one day you're going to get a blazer banner and you're going to graduate from seminary. All these, you know, and I always wanted to do to please my father and my mother. I never wanted to upset them. I never wanted to make them worried about my behavior. My best way of rebelling. And I was a little bit odd in that I played classical music to annoy them. So I played Beethoven's Fifth first thing in the morning, and they thought that was hilarious because they hated classical music. But that was my way of rebelling. I was 100% dedicated to the church and I wouldn't want to offend them or upset them. I did end up praying for my own testimony. About the age of 18, I got on my knees and started to pray and ask my Heavenly Father if the church was true. But I stopped. I couldn't carry on the first time I tried to get a testimony because I felt like I'd be doubting my parents. And that's the last thing I wanted to do. It took me about two weeks before I realized, actually, I've got to do this for myself, not just blindly follow my parents. So at about 18, I had a warm, overwhelming feeling, like most people do. This burning in the bosom. And that was it. I was 100% dedicated and prepared to serve a mission because I didn't want to serve a mission without my own testimony.

John Dehlin [00:11:40] And was it just. Is it like praying after you read the Book of Mormon and praying to know if the church was true? Sort of moronized promise?

Stephen Bloor [00:11:49] Yeah, I mean, I pray to actually. Are you there, Heavenly Father? Are you there? Let me know. Is the Book of Mormon true? And if so, I want to know. And I stayed on my knees for 15 minutes before I felt an overwhelming feeling throughout my body that this was true and that was it.

John Dehlin [00:12:11] Nice.

Stephen Bloor [00:12:11] I was prepared.

John Dehlin [00:12:13] So no trouble with the bishop or anything. Growing up or anything like that,

Stephen Bloor [00:12:21] it's difficult, you know, when you're. When you. Nothing serious.

Guest [00:12:25] I.

Stephen Bloor [00:12:26] The hardest thing is going to talk to your dad when he's the bishop.

John Dehlin [00:12:29] Oh, your dad was the bishop when you were a teenager?

Stephen Bloor [00:12:33] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:12:33] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:12:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But nothing serious? No.

John Dehlin [00:12:39] Okay. So where'd you serve your mission?

Serving a Mission in Manchester

Stephen Bloor [00:12:44] I went to England, Manchester, which I was excited about. It was the big city. I'd come from a small town in Cornwall, a rural town. So going to the city was exciting and a big thing for me. Lots of firsts in my life.

John Dehlin [00:13:04] Okay. Any super important experiences on your mission that you want to share?

Stephen Bloor [00:13:13] I had a tough time with companions. I think some of us do. I was 100% dedicated to the rules. I was a book missionary. You know, I had to follow the rules 100%. And some missionaries were less committed to those rules. And that caused me a lot of consternation. We had a lot of those one to one talks, heart to heart. But I learned some big lessons about how to deal with people. And it was a character defining experience. And I wouldn't be the same sort of person I am today.

John Dehlin [00:14:00] Okay. Did you have some important success or baptisms or.

Stephen Bloor [00:14:08] One of the most momentous occasions was. I baptized about 26 people. One of the most momentous occasions was this particular couple in Stockport who I spent six months teaching. And they wouldn't respond to the commitment pattern to get baptized. They wouldn't commit. And since I knew them the most for the longest, I was challenged by my companion to do this commitment pattern. But I was very quiet and shy. But I went to the Lord as I saw it at the time, got on my knees and I felt an overwhelming feeling to commit to fast as long as it took for these people to commit to baptism. And that's a bit. Looking back now, that was a bit silly. But I committed it because I knew if I didn't do that something extraordinary, I wouldn't keep my end of the bargain and actually commit them. So I went down to their house and I backed off out of fear. I was a junior companion. I wasn't that experienced in the mission field. Only been about four months. Oh, no, six months at this time. And we walked out the house without me trying to commit them to baptism. And as I was walking away, I've been fasting for a day and I was tired and exhausted. It was late at night and I felt like I had this voice in my ear saying, turn around and go and commit them. So I went back and I Said, look, I've had this experience. The Holy Ghost has told me, you need to join the church. They said, okay, we'll let you know tomorrow. So I had another few hours without food and I phoned them up and they said, yes, we'll join the church. But actually they only came the once. They got baptized for me because they loved me and they never came back to church ever again, which was sad. But looking back now, I'm actually quite glad. I can't. I don't think there's any. Well, there's two. Two people stayed faithful in the church after I baptized them.

John Dehlin [00:16:26] Two of the 25 or whatever. Okay, so what happened when you came home from your mission?

Stephen Bloor [00:16:38] I went to college, to podiatry school to study as a podiatrist again. I was super dedicated. One of the things that I felt was helpful was having served a mission. I became more disciplined to studying. I have to say that the fact that I served a mission to help me in my school studying, it did help you.

John Dehlin [00:17:04] It did help you.

Stephen Bloor [00:17:05] Absolutely. Just the fact that you had to study for two hours scriptures every day meant that I was a better student, I felt. So I top marked all the way through and managed to succeed without any problems.

John Dehlin [00:17:23] Without what? Sorry, you broke up for a second.

Stephen Bloor [00:17:25] All right, without any problems. If you. I wasn't border. I wasn't pass fail borderline. I managed to get through my. My college exams without any problems. And actually I felt that the Lord was blessing me because of my service as a missionary at the time.

Marriage, Family, and Career as a Podiatrist

John Dehlin [00:17:45] Okay, so you passed through school. Did you get married?

Stephen Bloor [00:17:53] Yeah, married at 28 after you finished podiatry school? Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:18:00] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:18:02] I mean, the problem we got in this country is there's a lack of eligible. Eligible young women.

John Dehlin [00:18:10] Right.

Stephen Bloor [00:18:11] So you've got to travel long distances, which I did looking for that right one.

John Dehlin [00:18:19] So you got married?

Stephen Bloor [00:18:20] Managed to, yeah. Liz, my wife, I'd actually grown up with when I was younger in the Midlands, in Stoke on Trent, and I moved south and we'd lost touch. And so in my mid-20s, I contacted her. She was still single, luckily, and actually went on a blind date, would you believe, because we hadn't seen each other for about 12 years or something like that, so we didn't know what each other looked like, which was interesting.

John Dehlin [00:18:53] So you weren't a blind.

Stephen Bloor [00:18:54] She didn't disappoint.

John Dehlin [00:18:55] She didn't disappoint. And you're still married?

Stephen Bloor [00:18:59] Absolutely.

John Dehlin [00:19:01] How long have you been married?

Stephen Bloor [00:19:03] 25 years.

John Dehlin [00:19:05] 25 years last month. Okay, cool. So congratulations.

Stephen Bloor [00:19:11] Thank you.

John Dehlin [00:19:12] Okay, so how many kids did you guys have?

Stephen Bloor [00:19:15] We have four.

John Dehlin [00:19:16] Four kids. And is there anything. Let's just say for the sake of time, tell us any important stories or developments between getting married and you becoming bishop that you think would be important parts of your story to tell.

Stephen Bloor [00:19:37] Well, I worked in Harrogate in Yorkshire. Liz and I moved up to Harrogate.

John Dehlin [00:19:43] I.

Stephen Bloor [00:19:44] Interesting. I was working in Plymouth, which is in the southwest. That's actually where the stake centre is as well. Devon and Cornwall, two counties in one stake. And I was there, I was on the stake High Council from the age of 21. And I was working with the young men in the State Young men's presidency. I worked in that area in my job as a podiatrist. And I actually was dating a girl in Yorkshire. I went up to Harrogate in North Yorkshire and had a feeling that I needed to be in Harrogate. I don't think. Well, it might have had something to do with this girl. I wasn't dating Liz at the time, my wife. Now this is before that. And I had this overwhelming feeling that I needed to leave my job and move north. So I resigned and went north and I managed to get a job in Nuffield Hospital. It's a big private hospital group in the uk. I was the first ever podiatrist full time in a private hospital in the uk. And I felt that God had a hand in that at the time. Just that I was putting myself forward. Nobody had ever actually asked and I was the first. So I managed to get in and start my career with the private hospital.

John Dehlin [00:21:11] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:21:12] So that was quite momentous. And within a month in Yorkshire went to a New Year's dance for young single adults. And guess who happened to be there? My now to be now, my wife, Liz. And so that was interesting.

John Dehlin [00:21:29] Nice. Okay, tell us any other stories that you think are important to your narrative leading up to your time as bishop that you think. And there doesn't have to be anything, just.

Called as Bishop in a Large UK Ward

Stephen Bloor [00:21:43] No, Harrogate is a big ward. At the time we were there, there were about 330 active. Now for the UK, that's enormous. We had 60 young people, youth, young men and young women from between the age of 12 and 18. The biggest youth group in any ward in the whole of Europe at the time. And I was delighted to be a youth leader. Most of my time in the church was spent with the young people. And I loved it, absolutely loved it. I was called for a while on the bishopric of that ward in Harrogate So I spent about two years as a member of the bishopric.

John Dehlin [00:22:27] Okay, cool.

Stephen Bloor [00:22:29] Which was an interesting. That side of leadership. So that helped prepare me, I think, to be bishop.

John Dehlin [00:22:35] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:22:36] We had a lot of American families there. There was an American base at the time called Menwith Hill, which is a communications base, listening base for the US and British. And so there was. That was one of the reasons that the ward was so large was because of the American contingent. So that was great because it gave us a new perspective on the church. So up until then, we'd only been in British wards with British people. And this was at least 60% American. So you got a new perspective on how the church is run in the States, but in Britain. And that was exciting as a British member.

John Dehlin [00:23:16] Got it. Okay. So you were called as bishop at what age?

Stephen Bloor [00:23:22] So, yeah, we moved now. Interesting. Now, okay, this is an interesting story. I came on holiday to Cornwall. We used to come down twice a year to see my parents and my family to Cornwall. It's a beach resort. There's lots of wonderful fishing coves. Beautiful part of the country. A lot of people come on holiday here. So we were blessed that our family lived there. So we'd go down on holiday. And I always wanted to move back to Cornwall. My roots are there. That's where I felt secure. And not only that, it's beautiful. So we were on holiday, but we didn't think. We never planned to go. Liz and I had thought maybe we would retire there, but I had this overwhelming feeling that I should have moved to Cornwall. Now, at the time, one of the. There was the ward where we were. Helston Ward had a bishop who was ex services for, very strict disciplinarian. Lovely fellow. But his very businesslike approach to church leadership did upset a few people. And I felt sorry for the friends that I'd grown up with that were feeling a little bit pushed around by this disciplinarian. He was only doing his best. And his particular style of leadership grated on a few people's personalities. So I felt sorry for them. Now, I think it's the subconscious mind, but I wanted to move to Cornwall to help these members in whatever capacity. I actually thought that maybe they needed me as their bishop. Now, that's a little bit arrogant. And at the time, I wouldn't admit it, but I think subconsciously that's what I wanted to do. So I made plans to sell my business. Sell it. I mean, I prayed about it. And every time I prayed.

John Dehlin [00:25:13] Hey, Steven, you broke up for just a second. I'm going to turn off my camera because we're getting a little bit of audio interference. So don't be annoyed that my camera disappears. And I'm going to just have you repeat. I heard you up to the point of you saying that you kind of felt an impression that maybe you should be the bishop. So back up and tell that story and I'll turn my camera on when it makes sense. So don't worry if you don't see me.

Stephen Bloor [00:25:39] Okay. So we were on holiday when I had this overwhelming feeling that I needed to move to Helston in Cornwall to move south. And I prayed about it. And again, this overwhelming feeling, I fasted upon it. I mean, it didn't make sense from a professional point of view because I had a business. I'd this time moved out of the private hospital and got my own business as a self employed clinician with secretarial staff. And the business was booming. But I felt God was calling me south to help the members of my home ward. So having prayed about it, having this good feeling in my heart, I sold the business and sold our house and we moved south. So we moved to Cornwall and I made sure that the state president knew I was moving. So just in case the Lord had some plan for me. So we established ourselves in Helston. Within four months, I was called as the bishop.

John Dehlin [00:26:53] And what year would this have been?

Stephen Bloor [00:26:57] So this was 2004.

John Dehlin [00:27:01] Okay, so this was 12 years ago? Basically, yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:27:06] So this was. That's right. So it was March 2004.

John Dehlin [00:27:10] It was a year before I started Mormon stories. Okay, so, okay, so talk about how you started to have a faith crisis. Well, if there's any bishop story you want to tell before your faith crisis started. But then once you do that, let's talk about how your faith crisis started to develop as a bishop.

Serving as Bishop and Questioning Church Culture

Stephen Bloor [00:27:30] Okay. Now as a bishop, I was 100% dedicated to serving the Lord and his children in my ward. I had actually changed my attitude towards rules. I wasn't a yes man anymore. Had some experiences at college which made me think more about rules so that I looked for the meaning behind rules, the spirit of the law instead of the letter of the law. And the first thing I did was write to the state president and question the fact that we were having our sacrament service at the end of the three hour block when you've got children in the ward who are restless, having been in primary and Sunday school and so on for two hours. And now they just wanted to move around. And so sacrament meetings were quite noisy. I felt that sacrament should have been first as the most important meeting of the day. So I wrote to.

John Dehlin [00:28:44] That makes sense.

Stephen Bloor [00:28:47] Yeah. I wrote to the state president about that. I included several things because I wanted to make sure at least one of those things got passed. Another thing was that the youth group was on Friday night, when most kids go out with their friends locally in the community, and not many were coming to the church youth group because they had a choice. Friends from school who were not members or the local church youth group. I didn't think this was right to give them that choice. Let's make it on different nights so they could do both. And at least we'd be getting the youth to come to youth group. So that was another thing. Anyway, I put two or three things together and sent a letter, and they actually came back to me and said, well, yeah, you'll be the only ward in the whole of the stake that has your sacrament meeting first, but we'll see how it goes. So it was a little bit different in my approach. I wanted to think about what we were doing.

John Dehlin [00:29:54] That's a great reaction. Right? I bet you felt good about that.

Stephen Bloor [00:29:58] I was delighted. And I got very well with the state president. We'd been friends when I was on the stake High Council and he was on the stake presidency at that stage when I was 21. And then I moved back up when I moved up to Yorkshire, came back and he was now the state president. And so that friendship helped, I think, me, to get things through in the ward.

John Dehlin [00:30:27] Cool. Okay. So you were sort of a. You thought outside the box. You were willing to, you know, ask for things you needed. You were even willing to shake things up a bit because you wanted to do a good job and you had a stake president who was a friend. That could be a good support to you.

Stephen Bloor [00:30:49] Absolutely. My focus was on the people. I focused on compassion. Most of the time I was bishop, I would emphasize Christlike compassion. A lot of the ward members struggling with depression and various other mental health issues. And I felt that one of the best ways of overcoming those problems was to focus on other people and to have compassion for other people, to empathize with others and to basically take your mind off yourself and serve other people. And that was the best way of helping them, I felt at the time. So now we had another crisis. At one point, one of the smaller branches in the area was joined with us. They basically dissolved the branch and sent the members to our ward unwillingly. So when they arrived, they were not very happy, and they would be very well. They Would dissent. And they actually caused a lot of problems for me as the bishop because they didn't want to work with me. Not because of me, but because of the situation. They'd lost their branch, and they worked very hard for that. But it wasn't my decision. It was state president higher up. So, again, I tried to focus their attention on Christlike compassion because I felt it helped them to overcome their own pain of losing something they cherished, which was their branch. So, yeah, my whole. During my tenure, that was the focus. Christlike compassion.

John Dehlin [00:32:34] You know, as I'm hearing you say that, I'm just going to say, and I don't say this to disparage the church, but just my experience with the church made it so that my reaction was, uh, oh, his focus on Christlike behavior is probably a little bit risky in terms of his being a leader, Because I could see that not ending up so well in this church. And I know, I don't mean to say the church is unchristlike, but I can just see how that could get you into trouble.

Stephen Bloor [00:33:13] Some of the rules are. I mean, for instance, I was continually asked to run addiction recovery clinics and to include all different types of addictions in the same support group. So you've got people with alcohol addiction, with drug addiction, with coffee addiction, sex addiction, pornography addiction, all in the same

Guest [00:33:37] group

Stephen Bloor [00:33:39] trying to support one another. And I put my foot down, I said, no, this isn't going to happen, not on my watch. It's just not a good thing to do to have all those different problems together. And that didn't go down too well.

John Dehlin [00:33:56] You mean the leaders didn't like that? That you didn't like them all being together?

Stephen Bloor [00:34:04] Yeah, I mean, they expected me to follow the rules and have that. The other thing I objected to, we have this helping hands program. I'm sure it's worldwide. And it was presented to us as a way to bring the church out of obscurity. And that was the first emphasis. And this really grated on me. We've got to wear these tabards which advertise who we are. So rather than doing service in secret, anonymously, we would be parading ourselves in the street and make sure that everybody knew. And it was actually managed by the public relations department of the Stake. I wrote a letter to the stake president saying, this is just not on. I mean, it says it in the New Testament. And Jesus Christ said, let not your right hand know what your left hand doeth. And if you do these things in secret, then the Lord will bless you in public. And it didn't seem right to me. So I objected. And I actually put my foot down again and said, sorry, but we're not wearing the tabards. We're going to do anonymous service as a ward. And we did a lot of service projects. That's some fantastic members who dedicated their time to serving others anonymously. And the stake president did back me up on that. I think I was the only one in the whole of the stake.

John Dehlin [00:35:25] I could just kind of see that over time, you may have been perceived as a bit of a troublemaker.

Stephen Bloor [00:35:32] Well, I mean, the first thing I did when I was called as a bishop was ask for training on how to counsel people. And in the bishops, you know, you have the bishops meeting, the welfare meeting and so on. All the other bishops looked at me and said, what? You want training in how to counsel people? You just need to follow the spirit. I said, but I've got problems. People coming to me with marriage problems, addiction problems, all sorts of mental health issues. I don't know how. I don't know the first thing about helping them. What's wrong with having professional guidance on counseling techniques? So the state president did back up on that. He said, yeah, we need some training. So we got an hour. We got an hour's training.

John Dehlin [00:36:14] That's awesome. That's a great story. Okay, so what caused your faith crisis? What happened?

Stephen Bloor [00:36:26] Well, my brother had a faith crisis. Now he started to suffer with mental health issues and he got depressed. It was diagnosed later as some form of bipolar, but it meant that he struggled with panic attacks as he was giving talks. He was on the state high council. He had some very important callings in the church. And the pressures that he were under from his mental health issues meant that he couldn't fulfill those callings. So he became inactive. And the stake president was very compassionate and said, well, you know, let's give him some time. Let's not put any pressure on him. We don't want to make him feel guilty or expect too much of him when he's suffering with these health, Mental health issues. So he had time away from the church during that time.

John Dehlin [00:37:26] Was this the same steak or different stake, same state? Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:37:33] During that time, he. My brother started to do some research in his spare time. He had a lot of spare time about the church. And all of a sudden, he became aware of some of the historical problems of Joseph Smith and the origins of the church, and him and his wife basically stopped coming.

John Dehlin [00:37:59] Do you have a sense for what year this was? Approximately what year this was?

Stephen Bloor [00:38:05] Three or four years before I had my faith crisis.

John Dehlin [00:38:08] Oh, okay, okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:38:11] So initially we thought it was just his mental health issues, but actually it was his faith crisis, basically. So that went by and he was released from his callings eventually. I then became aware that he was now drinking alcohol, in fact, drinking wine in front of my children in their house and swearing in front of our children. And also worse actually was the fact that we had a new member who had just joined the church and had some addiction problems. Alcohol, drug addiction. And for the first time in her life, I thought that she was finding happiness in the Mormon church. And my brother knew this young lady and decided that he wanted to tell her about the problems with the history of the church. So I discovered this was going to happen. So I went around to his house and basically laid down the law. It got into a bit of a shouting match, to be honest. I mean, he's my brother, he's 11 years younger than me, but I was probably a little bit sterner with him than I would be with another member because he was my family. So I laid down the law. I said, how dare you drink alcohol in front of my children? And set a bad example. How dare you swear in front of my children. And for goodness me, you're going to spoil this woman's happiness if you destroy her testimony. He got very angry with me and we didn't talk for weeks after that. So that was the first thing. And then he started to try to reforge our relationship. First of all, they apologized for their behavior in their own house when I shouted at them. And eventually we got to become friends again, would talk, and eventually he started asking me questions about psychology, what he called positive psychology. What are the conditions or criteria for helping people to have the best in well being and to fulfill their potential as human beings? Got me thinking. You know, he was asking me in Afghanistan, if a woman is born into a Taliban culture, is wearing a burqa helping to fulfill her potential as a human being? Does that religion help her to fulfill her potential and the best of to help her to flourish? And I obviously disagreed. Of course it didn't. Why would living inside a sack help her to realize her potential? And he kept asking me things like questions like this, kind of on the outskirts of religion, not pointing his finger at Mormonism, but getting me to think about religion and being rational, get my rational brain thinking. And then the worst thing he could have done was to post a tweet about homosexuals in Utah having the highest suicide rate between the age of 16 and 25 year old and how he felt that he needed to speak out and make people aware that the church's doctrines, ideology, was harming these individuals.

John Dehlin [00:41:52] Now again, I'm just, I like timelines. Do you have a sense for by what time he was having these conversations with you? Kind of. What year?

Stephen Bloor [00:42:01] So that was 2010.

John Dehlin [00:42:05] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:42:06] Yep.

John Dehlin [00:42:06] So you'd been bishop, you'd been bishop for how many years by that point?

Stephen Bloor [00:42:12] Six, seven? Nearly seven.

John Dehlin [00:42:14] Isn't there a five year limit on being bishop?

Stephen Bloor [00:42:18] Not in our stake.

John Dehlin [00:42:21] Not in your state, they reckon.

Stephen Bloor [00:42:23] No, they said between five and seven years.

John Dehlin [00:42:26] Wow.

Stephen Bloor [00:42:27] Six and a half years. About six and a half.

John Dehlin [00:42:30] Okay, so you had been bishop for six and a half years?

Stephen Bloor [00:42:34] Uh huh.

John Dehlin [00:42:34] Okay, cool.

Stephen Bloor [00:42:37] And he treated this what I thought was a criticism, so I sent him a message. Having just reforged our relationship, I didn't want to spoil it again. So I was very careful how I managed this problem as a bishop. I felt I needed to tackle this apostasy, open rebellion against the Church.

John Dehlin [00:43:01] Were you his bishop?

A Congregation Member's Faith Crisis Triggers His Own

Stephen Bloor [00:43:03] I was his bishop.

John Dehlin [00:43:04] Oh, wow. Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:43:06] So at the same time, I wanted to, I didn't want to destroy our friendship, our relationship as brothers. So I'd be very careful. And I chose my words very, very carefully. So I sent her a message privately. Message, why public criticism of the church, David? And he wrote back the most unexpected, compassionate message I've ever seen. So even though he's not homosexual, he could empathize with those who are. And their needs were not being met by the church. And it was causing all sorts of trauma, mental trauma, mental health issues, and ultimately suicide for a lot of people. And he wanted to reach out to them with his compassion. And that touched me so much that I started to question my own testimony. How could somebody who's an apostate, my brother, have such compassion for people because of what the Church is doing, hurting them. So that's when I decided to reinvestigate the church myself.

John Dehlin [00:44:24] Did you get a sense, Was he listening to podcasts? Was he reading Mormon Internet websites or blogs? Did you get a sense for his source of information that was sort of informing and inspiring him to say and do what he was doing?

Stephen Bloor [00:44:47] To be honest, I don't know where I know he got books, a lot of books. He bought quite a few books, Quinn's books and so on. I'm not sure what site. He wasn't on any forums. He wasn't on any of the Facebook forums at the time, but it was Internet that made him aware. But I'm not sure exactly what sources.

John Dehlin [00:45:09] Now, just to go back, I was just curious. That's fine. That's fine.

Stephen Bloor [00:45:11] That's right. Just to go back a bit in time. Two years previously and this kind of sets the background really for what I did next. Two years previously, my wife had discovered that a friend of hers who used to be a branch president in Scotland had left the church and had written a blog, the Church is True, the Church is Not True. Comparing doctrines of the church over the years with scriptures and so on and highlighting some of the problems, polygamy, Joseph Smith and those historical issues. Now she came to me very, very upset and asked for my guidance as the bishop and her husband. Now I didn't look at it. I just said, you're being deceived by Satan. Don't look at it anymore. You just need to pray, read your scriptures and get the spirit back in your life. But I had no idea what she was looking at. Once my brother had done this with a tweet and I heard his, I got his response, this compassionate response and I started doubting my testimony. I went to that site and I discovered, the first thing I discovered was, well, a lot of people discover Joseph Smith had 55 wives and honestly didn't know that he had and that two of them were 14 year old girls. And that just threw me totally. At that point I knew I had to prove that the church was true once again. And I dedicated my all my waking hours, early hours of the morning, late at night. Work was a chore. I try not to do any work if I could. I just wanted to study and prove that the church was true.

John Dehlin [00:47:14] And so this was again, you said

Stephen Bloor [00:47:17] 2011, 2012, this was the end of 2010. So this was November.

John Dehlin [00:47:23] Okay. Okay, yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:47:25] Beginning of December.

John Dehlin [00:47:27] Okay, so what happened? 2000, you start, you start trying to prove the church is true.

Stephen Bloor [00:47:33] You. Yeah, I discovered stay LDS and a Mormon, think. And Liz and I, both my wife and I spent all of our spare time just discussing it, studying it, praying, studying the scriptures, trying to keep our testimony. But the more we studied, the more down the rabbit hole we went.

John Dehlin [00:48:03] Okay, and so what's that like being a bishop? And you're losing, you're, you're losing your faith completely.

Stephen Bloor [00:48:14] It's like being in a living nightmare, to be honest. So you're going to church. It was tithing settlement time. It's December, I'm having to interview people, conduct meetings and I'm doubting my own testimony. I felt like the rug's being pulled up from Underneath me, in fact, it felt like I was dying. I had this empty feeling inside, this hollow, empty, painful experience. It felt like my heart was being ripped out of my chest and I was broken hearted, basically. And it felt like I was dying, basically. It was like a death in the family. And it was me.

John Dehlin [00:49:08] I'm so sorry.

Stephen Bloor [00:49:10] Well, I mean, a lot of people go through it and, you know, it's like. I mean, I look back now and it's the best thing that ever happened, but at the time, you just want to be somewhere else, be someone else. This fantasy that you'd lived 46 years, in my case, I wanted it to carry on. Everything I ever believed, all the decisions I'd ever made in my life had revolved around the church. And then you start to question everything, you know, every decision you ever made. Could I have made differently without this fantasy, which I now discover is fictitious? So it was tough being bishop. I had to conduct. And it was over the Christmas period. We went to Liz's parent, Liz's mum, and it was the hardest thing to not say anything, but we didn't want to spoil her Christmas. So we came back. I had to conduct the fast and testimony meeting. It was my turn. I couldn't delegate it. My counselors would get suspicious and I had to bear my testimony. At the beginning of fast and testimony meeting in January 2011, I couldn't, in all honesty, be a hypocrite and say I have a testimony of the gospel. So all I could say is, I actually, I bore testimony of the compassion of humans, how humans can be compassionate and try to promote that idea. That was hard.

Losing His Testimony While Serving as Bishop

John Dehlin [00:50:56] So what did you do after you had lost your testimony in 2011? How did you. How did you handle that as bishop? Did you talk to somebody? Did you not? What did you do?

Stephen Bloor [00:51:09] Yeah, I actually talked to a friend of mine, Neil Bray. That's Charis.

John Dehlin [00:51:16] Yeah, I love Neil and Charis.

Stephen Bloor [00:51:17] Yeah, Husband. Yeah. Now he's an old friend. And I knew that he'd left the church, him and his wife, about four years earlier. So we had a conversation on the phone and he said, steve, what are you going to do? So I said, well, I can't stay. Well, he said, if you do leave, you're going to lose all your friends. I said, no, that won't happen. My friends are eternal friends. I've known them all my life. They will stay faithful no matter what. I had no idea that, no concept I could lose friends because I didn't have the same beliefs anymore. So he warned me That I may have to make a sacrifice for all my friends and my social circle. But I didn't believe it. But I knew I had to do something. I couldn't be a hypocrite, just the person I am. I felt it difficult to carry on in my calling as a leader. And I actually started to fear what the church would do if they found out. I was anxious about that. I felt the only thing I could do, I felt I just from what other people had said. Actually, one of the things I did was I searched for other bishops who had been through the same thing. So Bob McHugh from Canada, and I read everything I could find about his life and his transition out of the church. Having been a bishop and gone through a face crisis and left Lyndon Lambourne. I mean, we bought loads of books, we bought every book we could find to find out how people have managed it, this transition out of the church.

John Dehlin [00:53:04] Simon Southerton too.

Stephen Bloor [00:53:06] Simon Sotherton. Absolutely. Yeah. So I wrote, emailed quite a few people. But, you know, after a while, I think people move on in their lives and it's not important anymore. So I didn't get very many responses at that time. And I didn't know there was a huge ex Mormon community. I didn't know about Mormon stories. I just thought we were on our own. So I decided I had to resign as bishop. That was the only honest thing to do. And so I was prepared to phone up the state president and say, look, I'm out of here. There's just no chance I can stay. I don't believe it anymore. I'm gone. But at the same time, I wanted to protect my family, my parents and my other extended family in the church. And there's 50 our family, Liz and I. And so I wanted me to be the one that told them, not the state president or the bishop. I wanted it to be me. So I had to time this right, tell the state president, but more or less the same time tell the rest of my family around the world. And that was difficult to plan. At the same time, the closest people to me were my counselors on the bishop. You work together for years, helping, serving in your callings, and you get really close. These were the closest people in my life, apart from my wife. So I didn't want to hurt them either. So I wanted to tell them as well. And I wanted it to come from me. I didn't want the state president to tell the story in his own words, to corrupt it. I wanted it to be my feelings. So I Wrote a letter to my parents. I wrote a letter to my counselors, and I had a meeting with them all just before I. Well, the same day that I arranged to meet with the state president.

John Dehlin [00:55:24] Okay, so. So how'd that go? What was the. What was the result?

Stephen Bloor [00:55:29] Tears now. Yeah, tears on everybody's part. I got my counsellors into an office and my office and explained to them, gave them each a letter explaining exactly why I was going to resign. And actually, before this, just to go back a bit. Sorry. I had given a talk called Compassion for those who Leave. I wanted to prepare the members so that, using the same principles that I used earlier with Christ, like compassion, helping to ease the pain of the members. I wanted to help them understand that the pain of leaving the church, their loved ones, most of them had lost children, spouses who left the church. And I wanted them to understand what it was like to be the one leaving and therefore have empathy, to have compassion and not be judgmental towards them. And I felt that that would ease their own pain. When I was lost, when I left and I resigned because I knew it would hurt everybody.

John Dehlin [00:56:47] Right.

Stephen Bloor [00:56:48] The shock. So I gave that talk. Now, I made sure I gave that talk about a week before I actually resigned. And you've probably seen that.

John Dehlin [00:57:04] Yeah, I remember you posted that, right?

Stephen Bloor [00:57:07] Yeah, yeah. And it went down.

John Dehlin [00:57:13] Wait, say that again. You broke up for a second. Say that again.

Stephen Bloor [00:57:17] Okay. It went down well with the members because for the first time, they began to understand the pain of their loved ones going through a faith crisis. And they had empathy for their own loss, their own relatives. And everybody was quiet. There was lots of hugs around the room after the talk. And we had a feeling of mutual empathy for one another and for their loved ones. And then the week after that is when I resigned as bishop. Yeah. Now, just another point to add. Just before I gave that talk, the evening on the Saturday night before I gave the talk, Compassion for those who Leave, I got a panic attack. I phoned up my brother Dave, I can't do this. People will think I'm doing it so that I want sympathy. And that's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it so that they can. So it can ease their pain. And he said, well, do you care? Do you really care what they think? Well, I suppose, ultimately, no. He said, has anybody ever done this before? Has any bishop ever had that opportunity to try to explain to the active members what it's like to leave? I said, well, not that I know of. He said, well, what have you got to lose? So that's totally persuaded me to do it. But I wanted to phone the state president up that night and say, look, I've had it. I'm out of here. I can't cope anymore with this. The trauma of being a bishop, being a hypocrite. So I gave the talk, then I resigned and I met the state president about three or four days later.

John Dehlin [00:59:13] Okay, I'm just going to repeat. You said you met with the state president a few days later. Occasionally your audio breaks up, so I'm. I repeat it just to make sure people don't lose the story. Okay. So you met with your stake president three days later. I bet that was fun. Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:59:28] Him and his counselor.

John Dehlin [00:59:29] He had been your friend. I mean, it's important to note.

Stephen Bloor [00:59:33] It's also. Yeah. I mean, this was a different state president now.

John Dehlin [00:59:36] Oh, okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:59:37] He'd only been in office. Yeah. So he'd been in office about a year.

John Dehlin [00:59:40] Okay, got it.

Stephen Bloor [00:59:41] So this is a new state president.

John Dehlin [00:59:43] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:59:44] Having said that, I mean, I was, I thought, his friend. And he was my institute teacher, actually, when I returned from a mission. So I held him in high regard and I thought of him as a very compassionate man. But I didn't feel that compassion in the room that night. I felt fear, tremendous fear from that on his part.

John Dehlin [01:00:11] Fear on his part.

Stephen Bloor [01:00:12] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:00:13] Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [01:00:15] There was no attempt in the meeting with the state president, his councillor, to change my mind about my resignation.

John Dehlin [01:00:24] Huh. Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [01:00:33] I mentioned a few of the reasons why. Say that again.

John Dehlin [01:00:35] What was your reaction to that?

Stephen Bloor [01:00:38] Shock.

John Dehlin [01:00:39] Okay. Why?

Stephen Bloor [01:00:41] I felt that they were going to plead, beg, do everything they could to keep me in the church, but there was no effort whatsoever to keep me. In fact, it was. We don't think you should. They said, are you going to come to church in the next few weeks? I said, well, to be honest, I think it's going to be too painful for me and my family and the members. It's going to be uncomfortable if I've just resigned because I don't believe to come to church in these circumstances. They said, yeah, that's probably a good idea. It's probably best if you don't come now. They. Then later when I had a meeting, they said that in that meeting then that I'd said no. They'd said not to come to church, but actually all they'd done is ask me, are you going to come to church? And I said, probably not. And they then actually accused me of breaking their instructions, which was, don't come to church. But that was never the agreement. I said I probably wouldn't.

John Dehlin [01:01:55] Still, that's a weird thing for a leader to say, to say, don't come to church.

Stephen Bloor [01:02:00] That's what he thought he'd said. Actually he'd said, are you coming to church?

John Dehlin [01:02:03] But even if he had said that, that's a weird thing to say.

Stephen Bloor [01:02:08] Yeah, but he thought I'd broken our agreement, right?

John Dehlin [01:02:14] No, I get that, I get that.

Resigning as Bishop and Meeting with the Stake President

Stephen Bloor [01:02:16] I hadn't agreed anything.

John Dehlin [01:02:17] Right.

Stephen Bloor [01:02:20] It's bizarre. I mean, the actions were out of fear. I think basically they didn't want, they

John Dehlin [01:02:28] didn't want the contagion to spread.

Stephen Bloor [01:02:30] That's right, yeah. That's how I felt.

John Dehlin [01:02:34] That's actually a natural, It's a natural reaction. Right. I mean if, if you'd been a person in, in influence and all of a sudden everyone, everyone for years, for six or seven years had been relying on you. And in this case this is the word you grew up in. So we're talking about decades and decades of influence. If you're falling away, that could really affect a lot of people. So it's natural they wanted you to disappear, right?

Stephen Bloor [01:03:04] I suppose, yeah.

John Dehlin [01:03:05] From that perspective, but from a Christ like perspective, what would you have hoped for?

Stephen Bloor [01:03:11] Well, to be honest, I wanted to attend church and just sit at the back. That's what I really wanted. To stay with my friends, sit at the back and relax and take it slowly. I had to resign as a bishop. Unfortunately, there's no other option for me, I don't think at the time. But it's interesting because although I was told I was encouraged not to come by them asking me what I was going to do. And then I did have a meeting. That's right, yeah. I sent a letter the week after I asked it to resign. So I gave my resignation. They said, well, we can't accept your resignation. I said, well, why? Well, because only the first presidency can accept your resignation. And in fact that doesn't happen. They release you when they decide. So they did nothing. They left me in office. So what happened then is that my first counselor actually acted as bishop under my authority because I'm the only one with the authority bishop as a standard, as a judge in Israel.

John Dehlin [01:04:32] Right.

Stephen Bloor [01:04:33] Which is a bit odd because at the time I was becoming an atheist, so an agnostic atheist. I just didn't know there was a God anymore. And my counsellor under my authority as bishop was acting in my stead for six weeks.

John Dehlin [01:04:55] Wow, that's interesting.

Stephen Bloor [01:04:57] So I mean, I did say if I was told by the previous State president, if a bishop committed any serious sin, then they would be released on the spot by the stake president. And that was sort of a threat really to the bishops in bishops training. I said, well, you know, here I am as an atheist bishop and yet you can't release me. What worse sin is there to be an apostate? But I couldn't, so they left me hanging for a while.

John Dehlin [01:05:35] That's interesting. Bureaucracy.

Stephen Bloor [01:05:37] Yeah, I suppose it's just a bureaucratic thing, isn't it?

John Dehlin [01:05:39] Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [01:05:41] But then we had another meeting with the state President. Actually, my wife was with me that time.

Guest [01:05:49] And

Stephen Bloor [01:05:52] at the meeting the state president asked, this is with the bishop, with my first councillor as well, my first councillor and the state presidency more or less were there. So it's like five of them, I think, and me and my wife and the stake president asked me why I don't resign. I said, excuse me, you're not supposed to ask anyone to resign. He said, no, I haven't. I just asked why you won't resign. So. Well, that's a bit of a funny question because why don't you ask all of the other people that don't turn up to church on a Sunday, why don't they resign in actives? And he said, no, no, I'm not asking you to resign, I just want to know why you don't resign. And my wife then had had enough at this stage because she was still half believing and was traumatized by the fact that she may be losing her eternal partner. So she lost her cool with the state president and really laid into him, said, excuse me, but I'm here, I'm his wife. If he resigns, then what's going to happen to our marriage in the eternities? So that's irrelevant. He said, it won't affect you at all. She wasn't very happy about that.

John Dehlin [01:07:15] What does he mean? What did he mean by it wouldn't affect her at all?

Stephen Bloor [01:07:21] He couldn't understand why she would be concerned. And I don't know why, I don't know whether it was a mental block or what, but she was, she was uncontrollable emotionally because of the lack of compassion for her and her eternal marriage.

John Dehlin [01:07:46] Yeah. I'm just going to say that in my experiences with my stake president, there was zero compassion and it was so mechanical. And they also asked me to resign because they would much rather have that happen than have to take any action. But it just felt so unchristlike and void of compassion. And it's just weird how sometimes religion can make good people do really kind of cold and heartless things. It's just kind of a sad side effect of religion sometimes.

Stephen Bloor [01:08:21] And I don't. I don't blame them. I mean, understanding a little bit about psychology and understand that, you know, there's an amygdala hijacking that can occur, so you lose your sense of rationality and flight fight mechanism kicks in and they just go on the defensive. And it's not because they're not even thinking about it. They can't. Their minds are controlled by chemicals, hormones.

John Dehlin [01:08:53] Yeah, yeah, that's definitely what happens. Okay, so then how did it.

Stephen Bloor [01:08:59] Go ahead. This is interesting.

John Dehlin [01:09:01] Yeah, go ahead.

Stephen Bloor [01:09:02] After I sent the letter, actually, I was told not to communicate with members of the ward, of course, at all now, and to discuss the issues that I had. Now, after I resigned as the bishop, I wanted all the members, people I loved and served, not just for the seven years as bishop, but throughout my life, as you say. I wanted them to know why I had resigned and to have there be no ambiguity. I had studied enough to know that I would be labeled as a sinner or been offended, was weak. And I wanted them to know that I was leaving due to historical issues with the church, problems with Joseph Smith's behavior and so on. So I wrote them a letter and I had it posted to each of their homes the day before Sunday. So Sunday night, Sunday morning, and they got it in the morning. And then I arrived for church on the Sunday because I wanted to say goodbye. I wanted to grieve with the members, having just discovered that I'd resigned as their bishop the day before with the letter. So I arrived at church. Now, at this point, my wife could not come to church with me. She was too emotional about it. So she stayed at home. The only person that came with me was my daughter, who was 13 at the time. And as we walked into the chapel, I was ushered into my office by the last state president, who was my friend that I talked about before, I'd known for many years.

John Dehlin [01:11:03] Wow.

Stephen Bloor [01:11:04] Now, the only reason he was there was because the current state president was away on business in Europe, so couldn't be there. So the European area presidency assigned the previous state president to take his place. Now, at that time, he was the young single, adult, adult rep. He had a couple, senior couple, him and his wife, with a young single adult couple for the stake. He had no authority.

John Dehlin [01:11:33] Yeah, that's kind of weird.

Stephen Bloor [01:11:34] He'd just been the previous state president, so he was delegated to be policeman. So he Ushered me into the office, just him and me and my first counsellor, while my daughter went into the sacrament meeting with the First Council on the State Presidency to conduct business. Now, I didn't know what was going on and they didn't want me to know what was going on. So they called me into the office and he started thumping his hands together. How dare you do what you're doing? Excuse me. He said, how dare you come here and try to influence the members of the ward? I said, I'm allowed to come in here. This is a public meeting house. I've come to grieve with my friends and say goodbye. Basically, if this is what's going to happen, I've got to resign and I want to grieve with them. And he said, how dare you? He said, are you resigning as a bishop? He said, that's not as far as it can go. You've got to resign as a member. Do you think you can just resign as a bishop and stay in the church? There's no chance. So either you resign or you excommunicated. So I've never heard anything like it. He said, well, there's a higher law, you know, and the more responsibility you have then, the harder you fall. So I couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe it from my friend now.

John Dehlin [01:13:06] So on the one hand, I'm feeling a lot of empathy for how hard this must have been for you. If I'm trying to be objective a little bit, which, you know, is probably feeling insulting to you, I could see from their point of view that your presence would be very disruptive and that it could lead to other people falling away. So I guess. I guess I could ask. On the one hand, you probably understand why they were upset, right?

Stephen Bloor [01:13:35] Yes.

John Dehlin [01:13:36] And two more questions. Some would say, well, you're just trying to screw with people. You're just actually trying to use your influence to lead people, to lead other people away. What would you say in response to that accusation?

Stephen Bloor [01:13:55] That was not my motive. I wanted. I knew it was going to hurt. I mean, right from the outset, knew that knowing that I was going to resign, I wanted to ease the pain that the members would feel on my resignation. And I said, I want. I didn't want them to be. Didn't want there to be any ambiguity as to the reasons why I was leaving. That's why I wrote the letter. And to be honest, I didn't want to influence them to leave the church. I just wanted them to know why I was leaving the church. And I Wanted to meet with them, to share my love and feelings with them and to say, you know, it's been great, thank you. Actually, I wanted to thank them for the years of service that they'd given in leadership with me serving the members. That was my motive now, and friendship.

John Dehlin [01:14:51] I guess there's just an element of closure where you're just like, you want to say goodbye, you want to. And I think a lot of people would have assumed maybe you had committed adultery or committed some big sin and you wanted to be able to say, this is why I love you, thank you, thank you for everything, goodbye. And, you know, let's stay in touch. It's a reasonable thing.

Stephen Bloor [01:15:15] Yeah, that was my motive. Now, this previous state president, who was acting as the European Area Presidency's policeman, told me I couldn't enter the building because it was a public house of worship and they set the rules. It wasn't up, sorry. Although it was a public house of worship, they set the rules about who can come in and who can't. And I was not allowed in, actually. He said the European Area Presidency had said, as stated, I'm not allowed in at all. But using his discretion as my friend, he would let me in as long as I didn't talk to anyone at all. I was chaperoned by my first counsellor and I left before the end of the meeting, before the closing prayer. Closing him and prayer. So I went into the meeting, sat at the back with my first counsellor. The meeting ended, I was in tears. The ward executive secretary was passing the sacrament that day and he'd been the previous bishop before I'd been called, and we got on very well and we were friends, we looked into each other's eyes and there was tears in both of our eyes. My first counsellor sat next to me and during the closing, well, just before the closing, him. I said, right, I've got to go. My first counsellor is a bit of a rebel. And he said, why? I said, because I've been told to. He said, but you can be a rebel once, can't you, in your life? I said, what do you mean? He said, well, stay. I'm not going to make you leave.

Guest [01:16:55] Wow.

Stephen Bloor [01:16:57] So he made me stay through the closing hymn. I left at the prayer, went outside and me and my daughter, who'd sat through the whole meeting, she'd sat through the whole bit of the business as well, as we were driving away, I was being obedient. I'd been told not to talk to the members and so I was leaving before the meeting ended. And. And my daughter said, oh, dad, apparently during the business, the member of the State presidency said you'd been trying to remember the word. I said, oh, might have to edit this. Not resigned.

John Dehlin [01:17:46] Disfellowshipped.

Stephen Bloor [01:17:48] No. Oh, goodness.

John Dehlin [01:17:52] Not excommunicated. Excommunicated. Resigned

Stephen Bloor [01:17:57] because. With an S, I think

John Dehlin [01:18:01] something you had done or something that they had done.

Guest [01:18:04] No,

Stephen Bloor [01:18:07] they'd put me on one side set apart. No, no. You can edit this. Are you.

John Dehlin [01:18:16] No, probably not, but. So. So they. They had done something. They had done something. Oh, they had done something to you that wasn't an accurate portrayal of what had actually happened, Is that what you're saying?

Stephen Bloor [01:18:31] No, they'd stopped me in acting in my office as bishop.

John Dehlin [01:18:38] Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [01:18:41] But I wasn't released, so they weren't releasing me. I need to find out what this word is. But anyway, it made me angry.

John Dehlin [01:18:52] Do you got a sense they were misrepresenting, that it wasn't truthful what they had communicated?

The Aftermath of Resignation and Public Perception

Stephen Bloor [01:18:58] Yeah. Basically, they were giving the impression that I'd done something wrong.

John Dehlin [01:19:02] Right.

Stephen Bloor [01:19:04] But it made me angry because they hadn't. Normally, when you do any business, you warn the person about the release from the calling or whatever you're going to do ahead of time. But nobody talked to me about what they were doing. So I got annoyed and I left. I parked the car. I got out of the car and I went back into the building. I wanted to see the State met the first council on the State presidency. And I have a heart to heart because I felt that I'd been misrepresented. My first councillor was at the door and he said, I'll go and get the State President. But he took 20 minutes. So during this time, all the members were leaving the meeting. I was at the door and they were leaving, so I got to give them hugs and say my goodbyes. And my first councillor made sure that he took a long time to get this member State presidency to meet with me so that I had good 20 minutes to do what I wanted to do, which was to say goodbye and give them hugs and to thank them for time we spent serving the ward members. That was an interesting experience.

John Dehlin [01:20:36] They had been notified in the meeting that you were no longer going to be bishop. Right. No.

Stephen Bloor [01:20:44] The word. Oh, what is Wasn't released.

John Dehlin [01:20:53] Suspended. Suspended.

Stephen Bloor [01:20:54] That's the word.

John Dehlin [01:20:55] Okay. Suspended.

Stephen Bloor [01:20:56] Sorry.

John Dehlin [01:20:56] That's all right.

Stephen Bloor [01:20:57] Suspended. Suspended. Now it has connotations, doesn't it?

John Dehlin [01:21:01] Yeah, yeah, I've been suspended. Right.

Stephen Bloor [01:21:05] So they've suspended me.

John Dehlin [01:21:06] You had resigned. You had Resigned already?

Stephen Bloor [01:21:08] I'd already resigned.

John Dehlin [01:21:09] But they claimed you had been suspended. That's pretty. That's pretty underhanded.

Stephen Bloor [01:21:13] Yeah. So they. Yeah, they claimed I was suspended, and that's what annoyed me.

John Dehlin [01:21:17] And they told the whole ward.

Stephen Bloor [01:21:19] Yeah. Without me knowing. I wouldn't have known unless my daughter had been in the meeting.

John Dehlin [01:21:24] And so when they were coming out of sacrament meeting, was it sacrament meeting?

Stephen Bloor [01:21:29] Yes.

John Dehlin [01:21:29] When they were coming out of sacrament meeting, they had just been informed you had been suspended. Suspended, yes. Okay. And so you were able to say your goodbyes.

Stephen Bloor [01:21:39] Yep.

John Dehlin [01:21:40] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [01:21:41] Yeah. I had an interesting experience with one of my friends. As I was walking out. He slapped me in the face twice and said, you naughty boy.

John Dehlin [01:21:55] Like, with anger. Slapped you with anger?

Stephen Bloor [01:21:58] Well, yeah, in front of everybody. He'd been a counsellor, actually. He'd been one of my bishopric counselors a few years earlier, and we were friends, so I suppose it was done in a sort of brotherly love type of way. But. Yeah. Slapped me across the face twice saying I was a naughty boy.

John Dehlin [01:22:21] This is a really. This is a really dramatic. This is one of the most dramatic days ever in the history of a Mormon chapel. Right.

Stephen Bloor [01:22:30] It was for that ward. So I got to. Yeah, I got to say my goodbyes, give hugs and express my gratitude. So I got what I wanted out of it. But, boy, was I angry with that councillor on the state presidency when I saw him. Said, how dare you? How dare you suspend me without notice and without explaining to people. But, yeah, they went away with their tails between their legs. It hadn't actually worked out the way they planned it was gonna.

John Dehlin [01:23:06] Why's that?

Stephen Bloor [01:23:08] Well, because I came back in.

John Dehlin [01:23:09] Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [01:23:10] Yeah, I'd done what I was told. I left. But they didn't count on my daughter being there to find out what they'd done.

John Dehlin [01:23:19] Ah, got it. Thank you for joining us today on Mormon Stories. Music today was provided by the Saber Rattlers. Check them out@sabre-rattlers.com the Mormon Stories logo was generously donated by StudioCase.com thanks for listening.

Guest [01:23:37] Come, come, ye saints. No toil nor labor fear but with joy wend your way though hard to you this journey may appear Grace shall be as your day Tis better far for us to strive Our useless cares from us to drive to the San Jo your hearts will swell. Oh, all is well I All is well. Why should we mourn? I think our lot is high Tis not so all is right why should we think too early A great reward if we now

Stephen Bloor [01:24:59] shoot.

Part 2 of 2 · Ep. 668

Stephen Bloor [00:00:00] 1, 2, 3.

Guest [00:00:07] Mormon Stories Podcast is a production of the Open Stories Foundation. All donations to Mormon Stories are fully tax deductible and go directly towards keeping the podcast alive and towards building a community of support for Mormons like you. To support the podcast or to join the community, please become a monthly subscriber today@mormonstories.org

John Dehlin [00:00:31] so what? What? So what was the aftermath? Did people leave the church? Like, how did. Did people reach out to you? What was that like for you once you had that big, dramatic moment?

Stephen Bloor [00:00:46] The. The first thing that happened was that the members had been told I was having a nervous breakdown.

John Dehlin [00:00:55] Nervous breakdown.

Stephen Bloor [00:00:56] Where the rumor started.

John Dehlin [00:00:57] They were told you were having a nervous breakdown.

Stephen Bloor [00:01:00] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:01:01] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:01:02] So I don't know where the rumor started, who started it, but they believed I was having a nervous breakdown. That's what I was told. I was told not to talk to the members. And during that year, first year, actually, they didn't. Nobody talked. Nobody contacted me except for one. One member of the Stake High Council, who was a friend. He contacted me to see how it was, sent me a message saying, how you doing? This was about nine months later, but nobody else. I've been told not to contact them. Actually, there's more to this, but this is where you come in, because I posted my resignation letter to the state president as bishop on my blog. Now, I was total novice to blogging. I didn't realize that it was a public space that could be accessed by anyone. And so I at this time discovered through Neil and Carys that there was a new Mormon Stories UK Facebook page, and it was a secret, closed group, and there was about 17, 18 members of the group at the time, and obviously you were one of them. I posted my blog link, and not knowing about blogging, I didn't realize you had to password protect it. So this is where I think you publicized it to thousands.

Speaking Out and Online Activism in the UK

John Dehlin [00:02:38] Sorry.

Stephen Bloor [00:02:39] That's all right. In the end, it did me a favor, but it was a bit of a shock because all of a sudden I've got thousands of views on my blog. And at the time, I was trying to protect my parents and them knowing I've got a blog and they would be a bit upset, and knowing that people were looking at it, looking at my letter, they would be concerned and get quite angry, I think. So having got several thousand views, I think 14,000 views in three days.

John Dehlin [00:03:15] Wow.

Stephen Bloor [00:03:17] Thanks to you. I phoned up, my brother, said, dave, what do I do? I don't know what to do. Everybody's looking at my blog and all of a sudden, I'm going to get in trouble because I've been told not to talk about why I left with anyone, and all these people are looking. So he said, well, password protect it. So I did. So I did that. And then I was called in by the state president because of what I'd done. So actually, it was my counselor who was a bishop by then. He'd been called as the new bishop, and his first councillor called me into the office and said, steve, there's a problem. People are knowing what has happened to you. And you agreed with the state president that they actually said, if you want to stay a member and not resign or be excommunicated, you need to keep your mouth shut. And there I was, blogging to the world with all these 14,000 views. So I did a deal. I said, look, okay, I'll keep this password protected if you keep me in the church. Let me stay. Don't excommunicate me.

John Dehlin [00:04:41] And why did you want to stay in the church?

Stephen Bloor [00:04:45] It was too painful for my parents. Liz's mother, who was elderly, in her 80s, was frail. In fact, she nearly died a few months earlier. And we felt that the stress, emotional stress of this. If we resigned from the church, she'd lose hope. It was bad enough that I resigned as bishop, but to leave the church completely, it could have killed her. So we didn't want that to happen. We didn't want anyone else to be hurt, so we wanted to stay initially because of that.

John Dehlin [00:05:26] So you cut a deal? I'll keep. I'll keep this post off the Internet. Yeah. If you leave me a member.

Stephen Bloor [00:05:35] Yep. I'll keep it password protected. I'll keep my lips shut as long as you don't excommunicate me.

John Dehlin [00:05:42] Okay, Cool.

Stephen Bloor [00:05:44] It worked. So the threat of public exposure,

Guest [00:05:50] I

John Dehlin [00:05:51] just have to ask. If a church is true, why in the world would it have to force people to stay silent? Isn't that a weird request to tell people you can't talk? You can't tell people. What does that say about a church if they have to silence people who no longer believe it's true?

Stephen Bloor [00:06:13] Yeah, I mean, it says a lot, doesn't it, really? But. Yeah, but I. For the sake of my family, I couldn't. I couldn't disobey that. So for 10 months, anyway, I kept quiet. I think I did make some blog posts, but it was password protected, so it wasn't public. As far as that was concerned, if anybody wanted to read any of my blog posts, they had to ask me for the password. So I got quite a few emails, actually. It was fantastic. That first few months. I got lots of wonderful, supportive emails because I joined all these groups on Facebook that I didn't know. Ex Mormon, post Mormon groups that I didn't know existed. And so all of a sudden I was welcomed with open arms by so many people who are now friends, several thousand. And they wanted to see my blog posts and my resignation letter. So I did share, but only with an exclusive group.

John Dehlin [00:07:26] You gave them the password and stuff?

Stephen Bloor [00:07:29] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:07:30] Well, are you covered, like two questions. Are you comfortable sharing what those groups were if they're publicly available, just so that others can find support? And then just tell us also what kind of what those groups meant to you to have a support system, you know, once you weren't affiliated or active in the church,

Stephen Bloor [00:07:54] well, you feel very lonely. I mean, all of a sudden you've lost your community. So although we live in a pretty secular country and we don't live in Salt Lake, most people around us are not members of the church and never have been. But we weren't friends with them, so we weren't socializing. We didn't have any social circle outside of the church. It was our life. So we lost that. I tried to reconnect and have done successfully with some old school friends, you know, which has been great. So that was good. But then, yeah, we made contact with Mormon VIP group, which is invitation only. Mormon stories, Mormon podcast, Mormon discussions, and there was some other groups now that I've worked with.

John Dehlin [00:08:54] Those meant a lot to you.

Stephen Bloor [00:08:55] Yeah, absolutely. And still do, right?

John Dehlin [00:08:59] Yeah. I can't overemphasize the importance of community after a faith crisis. It's just really an important part of healing and moving on.

Stephen Bloor [00:09:10] Well, it sort of doubled as therapy, really, because, you know, I had to try and reforge my character, find out who I was again. And you gain a great deal of insights from other people and in discussions and so on. So that was fantastic.

John Dehlin [00:09:31] Yeah. So what. What, I guess, I guess the big finale is going to be talking about your getting excommunicated without your knowledge, without a chance to attend a disciplinary council. But. But is there anything you want to share about the years in between you agreeing to stay silent and you finding out about your excommunication?

Excommunicated Without a Disciplinary Council

Stephen Bloor [00:10:00] Well, about 10 months after I promised to stay silent, I began to feel like this wasn't right. My parents and extended family had got used to the idea that we probably wouldn't be coming back to church. And so I felt it was safe to start Talking openly. So I wrote to the state. I'm a very upfront sort of person, really, and if I do anything, I want to be transparent and open about it. So to the state president to let him know that the deal was off. And I gave him some reasons why. And it included a few quotes from Hugh B. Brown about only error, fears, freedom of expression and so forth, and that the church, if it was true, should be able to withstand criticism and questioning. And then I took my password off. And since then, I've had nearly.

John Dehlin [00:11:14] Tell us again when this was approximately December.

Stephen Bloor [00:11:18] So it was 2011. 2011, yeah.

John Dehlin [00:11:22] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:11:22] So it's the end of that year.

John Dehlin [00:11:23] Okay, got it, yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:11:27] And that's when I took the password off. And I've kept blogging since. And there was one I came across. Oh, UK former LDs now, interestingly, a few months ago, after I resigned, me and my wife, well, I resigned as bishop, Liz, and I stopped going to church. I got an email from a friend, an old friend from many years earlier. Somebody had been to our wedding and her and her husband had discovered the things that we discovered. And she sent me an email explaining how they felt. And I read this email and I started bawling, crying uncontrollably, because all of a sudden I could empathize with somebody who's going through or I'd gone through. And they came down and visited us, which was great because we were able to talk about experiences that we shared in transitioning out of the church. And that lady, Deborah Edwards and her husband Martin, she set up UK Former lds, which is a British Facebook group, which is very active and very supportive of British members leaving the church.

John Dehlin [00:12:54] What was it that made you. What was it that made you feel so emotional?

Stephen Bloor [00:12:58] Just realizing somebody else I could connect. I could connect with them and what they're going through. And it reminded me of my own experience. They were going through that initial grieving process, the shock and the feeling of betrayal. And I. I remembered my own pain. And it still hits me from time to time, you know, not as often now, but. But at the time, anything like that, anybody that was going through the same experiences would make me feel the same pain again once again.

John Dehlin [00:13:38] Right.

Stephen Bloor [00:13:39] So, yeah, that was an interesting experience to connect with Deborah and her husband Martin.

John Dehlin [00:13:45] Shout out to Deborah. Shout out to Deborah.

Stephen Bloor [00:13:49] She's fantastic. She's an inspiration to many people. Another interesting experience was, well, I was actually sent several letters inviting me to disciplinary councils. One time, the new bishop, who'd been my first counselor, phoned us up and said, I've got a letter from the state president. Need to deliver it by hand.

John Dehlin [00:14:16] Kang Min, around what year is this?

Stephen Bloor [00:14:20] This is a couple of years later.

John Dehlin [00:14:21] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:14:23] And he came and he came to see us. His wife and my wife are best friends. And at the time, Liz had just had a diagnosis of breast cancer. So we were, you know, we were traumatized by that diagnosis at the time. And he came with this letter. He said, steve, I've got this letter, but I'm not going to give it to you. And I'm going to advise the state president not to pursue this at this time out of compassion. But you know what the letter is? It's basically an invitation to attend disciplinary council. I said, why? Because you have publicly apologized for your previous racial beliefs against blacks. So excuse me. So you're saying to me that the state president wants me to apologize for apologizing to the blacks forever being a racist? He said, yeah, if you put it that way, it does sound a bit odd, doesn't it? But yeah, effectively he wants to call you in for a disciplinary council because of that. And so, yeah, at the time I was involved in a campaign, a petition, a petition to apologize for the blacks. So that was one time I was supposed to be called into a disciplinary council. But they did back off out of compassion for my wife. There was another time I was obviously involved in the Tom Phillips fraud case. Now, Tom Phillips contacted me and Chris Ralph.

John Dehlin [00:16:06] Tell us who Tom Phillips is really quickly, just for those who don't know.

Stephen Bloor [00:16:10] Okay. Tom is a member of the church still. He's a non believer and he was a stake president in Coventry and he was also financial director for the church in Europe. So he's the European area financial director for the church. He was involved in a fraud case

John Dehlin [00:16:32] and he's had his second anointing.

Stephen Bloor [00:16:35] Ah, yes, yes, that's very important. So he's untouchable. So he asked. He's got this case of fraud, alleged fraud against the church. But the judge at the time needed two witnesses. So he asked me and Chris Ralph, who's another member in the local area, well, he's about a couple of hours away from me in Somerset to be witnesses. Now we agreed we were never actually called up to the case, but we agreed to be witnesses. So we were named a witnesses if the case went forward. So Tom was involved in that. Now our names got named in the papers, national papers, international actually, which caused great upset amongst members in this area, including my family, obviously. And at the time, the bishop, the new bishop came to Me and said, steve, this is serious. You're going to be excommunicated. I said, well, that's going to be difficult because that would be called witness intimidation. And so they backed off. So that was another time. Then they tried to excommunicate me for being a witness in the fraud case. And they tried a couple of times since, but they've always backed off for one reason or another. They felt better of it. So then it comes to. Oh, yeah, it comes to this. Oh, there was an open letter. Another thing I got in trouble for writing an open letter to the Helston Ward. And I don't know if you're aware of it, but a couple of years back, they had the. I think it was the 40th anniversary of the chapel celebrations, and I was invited by at the time, the only member of the ward that was speaking to us. She's a lovely lady who's a bit of a rebel, still a believer, but likes to do her own thing, really. So she disagreed with the way that the church leaders were treating us. And she said, Steve, it's the 40th anniversary of the church in this area. You should be invited because you're an integral part of this ward or were the history of the ward. Have you been invited? Said, no, well, I'm inviting you. So I really don't think that's going to go down too well, do you? Well, why not come along? So I said, no, I really don't think that's going to go down too well. It's going to cause a lot of awkwardness and discomfort. So instead, I felt inspired to write an open letter, which may never have got read by anyone, but I wrote a letter to the ward members. Didn't tell any of them that it was there, but I put it on my blog and left it. What I didn't realize was that local news reporter discovered it and the next day phoned me up, said, steve, tell me about this open letter. And so he wrote a story, I think it was entitled, former Mormon Bishop Claims that Ward Members are Held Hostage by their beliefs, or something to that effect. But basically it was trying to reassure the members that life outside of the Mormon bubble was far more wonderful than they could imagine, and that we're here with open arms to welcome them. But that didn't go down too well. So I got a message from several people that, you know, that they were going to get rid of me one way or another. I got a message from the next bishop. There's been two bishops in the last five Years. And the current bishop, who's somebody I don't know, I've only met once, and he was a state president. Actually, he was a state president after Tom Phillips in Coventry. He was Tom Phillips councillor. So they know each other really well. Anyway, this guy sent me a message on Google, which is Google's equivalent of Facebook, and sent a message to me saying, you're days are numbered. I never met the guy. I didn't know who he was at the time. And he's now the bishop. Now, I've since reported this to the police, just in case there are sinister motives.

John Dehlin [00:21:26] Yeah, that's an ominous message.

Stephen Bloor [00:21:29] And what does it mean? You know, your days are numbered. And the previous bishop has said to me, the church will destroy you. I'm only telling you this as a friend. So, yeah, I was threatened a few times, so that probably brings us up to date.

John Dehlin [00:21:52] Okay, so. Okay, so to be fair, you both were kind of intentionally being a burr in the Church's side.

Stephen Bloor [00:22:06] Well, yeah. Accepting to be a witness in a fraud case, I suppose is a big thing.

John Dehlin [00:22:13] And writing a letter that ended up in the national news, I mean, those are. I mean, those are probably fair criteria for being an apostate. Would you say that's true?

Stephen Bloor [00:22:26] Yeah, it depends on your definition. I mean, I've not advocated teachings that are in opposition to the tenets of the Church, which is their definition of apostate. I have only ever questioned their teachings and history and repeated what was in the journal Discourses in other places.

John Dehlin [00:22:50] I think they've added to the definition of apostasy something about openly criticizing the church or its leaders or something like that.

Stephen Bloor [00:22:58] Yeah. And if that's the definition, yeah, I'm an apostate.

John Dehlin [00:23:01] Okay. Okay. So you can see why they would feel threatened by you and someone would say, why did you want to remain a member? If you clearly don't believe and are willing to cause so much trouble, including sue the church, why would you even bother wanting to be a member?

Stephen Bloor [00:23:20] Well, as I say, initially it was because of family. But then as they got used to the idea, it then became the fact that I want to shine a light on some of the dirty sides of the Church. Some of the bits the church don't like.

John Dehlin [00:23:36] The naughty bits.

Stephen Bloor [00:23:38] The naughty bits, yeah. And I felt it was more useful to be exposing those dark secrets whilst still a member, that the newspapers would take more notice of a member the Church who was exposing the naughty bits.

John Dehlin [00:23:59] Right. Okay, so tell us about how you found out that you had been excommunicated. Without your involvement.

Stephen Bloor [00:24:13] So one night I.

John Dehlin [00:24:17] When was this?

Stephen Bloor [00:24:18] So this was a year ago in October. So it was in an evening, dark evening, and Sunday night, about 6 o', clock, and two men arrived, a bishop and the high priesthood leader. And I'd never met the bishop before, so didn't know who he was, but he came with a letter, hand delivered the letter, and I said, well, is that a letter inviting me to a disciplinary council? And he said, no, it's not a disciplinary council, it's a meeting to discuss your membership in the church. Having read the letter, which I can put online, it doesn't mention disciplinary council, doesn't use the wording from the General Handbook of Instruction. It says, yes, you're in open opposition to the church and we're going to discuss your membership, but nothing about disciplinary procedures, nothing about possible disfellowship or excommunication, nothing about attending to defend myself and bring witnesses, which is what I was used to doing as a bishop when inviting people to a disciplinary council. So with the bishop reassuring me that it wasn't a disciplinary council, with the letter not mentioning those words, we went on our wedding anniversary holiday. Having said that, I did send them a letter and reported them to the police for religious harassment. I mean, they arrived unexpected and uninvited to my house in the dark of the night and were I, in my view, harassing me? So I reported them and the police actually recorded it as a religious hate incident in the uk. I said, if this carries on, then I will take this further, but I don't want you to have this meeting. I want it to stop and leave me be. And actually at that time, I wasn't doing anything to irritate them.

John Dehlin [00:26:39] Other than living.

Stephen Bloor [00:26:40] Yeah. Other than the fact that I hadn't. I hadn't resigned and I hadn't been

John Dehlin [00:26:46] excommunicated and you hadn't died and I hadn't died. That was annoying.

Stephen Bloor [00:26:51] Yeah. So I was still around. Oh, interestingly, the bishop, current bishop. I was told by a member, the one of the only members that talks to us, that they'd had a meeting. I think it was Sunday school or priesthood or something, but it was all the adult members together and they were all baying for my blood. This could have been after the open letter, actually, which I didn't send to anybody. The newspaper had written the article, but I wrote the open letter and they wanted. They were baying for blood.

John Dehlin [00:27:21] What does that mean,

Stephen Bloor [00:27:23] baying for blood? They were crying for. Well, for some action to be taken against me. Malicious if possible. So they were quite angry. And this member friend of ours stood up and said, excuse me, but you're talking about our friend and brother Steve Blore, who was the bishop who loved and served you for seven years. You're talking about Steve Blore. How dare you talk about him like this? And she left the room. Anyway, at that meeting, the bishop took her aside and told her off, said, how dare you do that? And he promised the members he would deal with me. So this is the same guy who came around in the night with a letter and the same guy who said he would. My days are numbered.

John Dehlin [00:28:22] Okay, so they brought you the letter, but you declined to attend.

Stephen Bloor [00:28:28] I didn't attend because I was away on a wedding anniversary holiday.

John Dehlin [00:28:33] By this time, it's got to be that the lawyers are involved. Not only you've been involved in the Tom Phillips lawsuit, but they knew that you were threatening legal action, legal action, that you were thinking about that sort of thing. And I'm sure the lawyers were all involved.

Stephen Bloor [00:28:52] Possibly, yeah. I mean, so I can only imagine that the reason that they didn't want to use the word disciplinary council or excommunication was because of your high profile case and Kate Kelly and others which had got in the national and international press. So for somebody like me, who's been involved in his high profile fraud case to be excommunicated by the Mormon Church, could have been a big media item, brought media attention, bad publicity.

John Dehlin [00:29:28] Right.

Stephen Bloor [00:29:28] So that's my theory.

John Dehlin [00:29:32] Sure. That's reasonable. So what happened? So that was October of 2015.

Stephen Bloor [00:29:39] So about two weeks later, my father, after this supposed meeting that wasn't a disciplinary council, my father came out to see me at my place of work, my clinic, and said, Steve, have you heard that you're no longer a member of the church? No. Who's told you that? He said, well, the bishop came around to our house, the one and only time he's been around to their house in about four years, and they'd been sick with heart attacks and so on, to tell them, to tell my parents, the very people I wanted to protect, that I had been well, had my name removed, their son, had their name removed from the records of the church. I was livid.

John Dehlin [00:30:31] That just seems mean.

Stephen Bloor [00:30:34] I didn't know at this stage of

John Dehlin [00:30:36] them to do mean of them to reach out to your parents and just kind of rub that in, you know.

Stephen Bloor [00:30:46] It does seem. Yeah, a bit mean. So I then went online and checked with my membership number to go to the church website and check if my membership Records were still accessible. And a message pops up. You have stated that you are no longer a member of the church. And I had no access privileges anymore, as most members do to the church membership, their own membership records. I'd been a bishop so I could access membership records. Obviously, having resigned, I no longer had the privileges, but just for myself. But I couldn't access, and I couldn't believe that they stated in writing on the church membership site that I had stated I was no longer a member of the Church, which I hadn't. In fact, in the letter asking the State President not to have this meeting on threat of being reported as a religious hate crime, I said, I emphatically wish to remember, remain a member of the Church. Under no circumstances do I want to have my name removed.

John Dehlin [00:32:06] So they send out spies and stuff with me. They had a bunch of files that apologists from Fair Maxwell Institute had gathered on me. Is there a chance that in some thread, some forum somewhere, you had said something to the effect of, I'm no longer a member?

Stephen Bloor [00:32:27] I might've done.

John Dehlin [00:32:29] It's hard to know, you know?

Guest [00:32:30] Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:32:31] I mean, the thing is, they won't let me see the minutes of that meeting.

John Dehlin [00:32:35] Right.

Stephen Bloor [00:32:36] So I don't know.

John Dehlin [00:32:37] That's all right. But that's a weird. That's almost like a special category. Since when. Since when does someone's membership get terminated when they say they're no longer a member? It just makes no. Never heard of that. No, no.

Appealing the Excommunication and Seeking Answers

Stephen Bloor [00:32:52] So they removed my name from the records of the Church without my express permission or request.

John Dehlin [00:33:01] And without a disciplinary council involving you.

Stephen Bloor [00:33:05] Exactly. At least they didn't call it a disciplinary council at the time. So the letter I eventually get after my father had been notified, so he gets to know before me. And I think there's a data protection regulation that states that that shouldn't happen anyway, even if he is my father, you know, sharing personal information in the uk, it's quite a strong thing, data protection. So I get a letter saying that I've had my name removed, but no mention of excommunication at all. So that's again. And to be honest, at the time, I. Well, the problem was I didn't pursue it too much. I did ask for the minutes of the meeting. I sent, well, a First Presidency appeal. I sent a letter to the State President asking to appeal to the First Presidency on the basis that they hadn't followed proper procedures. Bishop knew what those procedures were and they hadn't followed them. So I complained about the only way you can get Access to the first presidency is through the local leaders. So you complain about their behavior and the way they follow protocols or not to the first presidency. You don't know exactly what those local leaders write to the first presidency on your behalf. And then when they finally reply, they do it through the local leaders. You never get to see what the response is from the first presidency. They just report it locally.

John Dehlin [00:34:48] And I'll just say, in my case, when I appealed, I specifically, when I appealed my excommunication, I was concerned about the same thing. I wanted to make sure the brethren were accountable, and I wanted a letter. And so in my appeal, I specifically said, please do not communicate with me through my stake president. Please send me a letter. Please communicate with me directly. And they did not do that.

Stephen Bloor [00:35:14] No. No. It's a sham. It's not an appeals process at all, is it?

John Dehlin [00:35:19] No.

Stephen Bloor [00:35:20] Really?

John Dehlin [00:35:21] I got an email. I got an email from my stake president that. That said, I've been informed by the. By the church that your appeal has been denied. And that's what I got.

Stephen Bloor [00:35:33] Yeah, well, I've eventually got that tonight, actually. But I asked for the meeting, which I didn't attend, and asked basically for. Asked for the names of those people who were there so I could ask them independently what the. What they thought the purpose of the meeting was. They wouldn't give me that. Six months later, having requested the minutes of the meeting, six months later, I received a letter from the European area authorities, European Area Presidency, saying, dear sir, as per your request for information about you, we have no information about you. That was it. They have no information about me. Now, we've been a member born into the Church, having served in various capacities and as bishop for seven years. That sounds a bit preposterous. Why would they not have any information about me? But that's what they stated. We have no information about you. Now, they're probably being truthful in the sense that it may not be in Europe anymore. It's probably in the States.

John Dehlin [00:36:40] Or they destroyed it. Right?

Stephen Bloor [00:36:42] Or they destroyed it. Yeah, but it's six months now. In the UK, Data protection regulations require organizations, every organization, whether they're religions or charities or whatever, to. To give the information that's requested within 40 days. Now, it took them six months to say they don't have anything.

John Dehlin [00:37:07] Okay, wait, wait. You broke up for a second.

Stephen Bloor [00:37:09] We'd like to meet with you.

John Dehlin [00:37:10] Wait, you broke up for a second? So it said it took him six months to tell you you didn't have anything then what?

Stephen Bloor [00:37:16] So it took him Six months to say they didn't have any information about me. And then within two weeks, I get a text from the local bishop saying, we'd like to meet you to report on the results of your First Presidency appeal. So, okay, I said, okay, that'll be fine. Let's meet. And then I had a thought. Well, wait a minute. I'd like this in writing because I don't know, I don't trust them anymore. Basically, the bishop lied to me about the purpose of the meeting. I don't know if I can trust their word. I want this in writing from the First Presidency. So I wrote a message back. Am I getting this in writing? If not, I will be making an audio of the conversation for legal clarity and publicity purposes, at which I get a very quick message back saying, we're going to postpone the meeting, get back to you in two or three days. And that was it. So that was five months ago. That was 9th of June. I heard nothing until last week when I decided it's about time I found out what's going on with this First Presidency appeal. Now, one of the reasons I haven't done anything, to be honest, earlier was because of the trauma that I felt having had my name removed from the record of the church. Now, it may sound a bit odd. As a non believer, I don't hold my membership as that important. At least I didn't think I did. But once that happened and the way that it was done, it caused me some emotional trauma to the point where I couldn't think or talk about the church for several months. I came off Facebook for six months. I didn't want anything to do with any of my friends in the church in the groups that we talked about earlier, because it was too painful for me to consider. So I totally dissociated myself from the church. And it was only recently that I felt strong enough to tackle it again.

John Dehlin [00:39:24] And there's going to be people that are like, oh, come on, you hate the church, you're an enemy of the church, it means nothing to you. And you're just making that up for a lawsuit or something.

Stephen Bloor [00:39:38] I used to talk to my family, my wife. You know, I haven't blogged for a year. You know, the last blog was just after this meeting that wasn't a disciplinary council. That was it, nothing since. And there's nothing to do with Facebook. I actually came off Facebook for six months. It's interesting. I didn't expect to react this way. And I was supposed to be writing a book actually this year. Chris Ralph and myself are co writing a book about our experiences leaving the church. And it's going to be called A Tale of Two Authenticities and how we both tackled the transition in different ways. And it was supposed to be published this year. I haven't been able to do anything. I haven't been able to approach it at all. Much to Chris Ralph's disappointment, I think, because he was keen and I unfortunately couldn't do anything. So that book is happening now that I'm re energized and I feel like I'm healing once more.

John Dehlin [00:40:53] But it's worth noting that the hooks run deep and the church can even. And this happened with me, it happened with Kate Kelly. Even if you don't believe it anymore, even if you have moved past it, when the church acts violently against you or dishonestly or inappropriately, it can be deeply wounded.

Stephen Bloor [00:41:14] Unjustly. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:41:16] What'd you just say? What word?

Stephen Bloor [00:41:18] Unjustly?

John Dehlin [00:41:19] Unjustly, yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:41:22] I'm mildly aspergic, apparently. And we take things very literally. We don't like injustice. I can't tolerate dishonesty in any form. So for the church to treat me this way, I imagined it would.

John Dehlin [00:41:45] You said it hurts more than you imagined it would. Is that what you said?

Stephen Bloor [00:41:49] Yes.

John Dehlin [00:41:50] Okay, Just make it clear.

Stephen Bloor [00:41:51] I think there are triggers. I mean, basically, who I am as a person was determined by my upbringing in the church. For people to say you can leave the church, but you can't leave the church alone. Well, no, for real reasons. Your personality was developed in the church by the church belief system. And you'd have to just totally Dissociate yourself from 46 years of your past or whatever, however long it was. And I can't stop being me. And it's taking a long time. So it's slow. Slow process. Deprogramming. Deprogramming. We're moving forward.

John Dehlin [00:42:38] No. So, okay, so what's the status?

Stephen Bloor [00:42:43] Well, I was supposed to meet with the state president on Sunday and to hear the results of the first presidency appeal. I have sent several, couple, two or three emails to the bishop and the state president stating that I only want this meeting to happen if I can have the assurance that I will receive the minutes, written minutes of the meeting that wasn't a disciplinary council and the written results from the First Presidency appeal. And they would not acknowledge that that was the case. They wouldn't assure me, reassure me. They just said, meet with us. That was it. Just meet with us. And so I said, well, there's no point unless you can assure me that I'm going to get this written note, which is a legal requirement, as far as I'm aware. I've talked to the UK Information Commissioner's office and they're in disbelief that the church can not. Will not give me this information.

John Dehlin [00:43:55] Yeah. So basically, the church knows you're preparing a lawsuit and they don't want to give you any evidence to use against them.

Stephen Bloor [00:44:03] Maybe. But the Information Commissioner's office, when I complained that they won't give me my information, they said, well, the first thing you've got to do is complain to that organization that you have a problem with that. So. Well, there's no point. What do you mean, there's no point? I said, well, they think they're above the law. What do you mean they're above the law? I said, well, they consider themselves to be God's kingdom on earth. You know, they're above the law. God's above the law. Oh, I get your point. So they want evidence that the Church has sent my information abroad without my consent. There are laws in the UK and Europe about sharing information abroad, and we may be able to pursue that. So that's. I'm going to take it further. But I did receive an email today, from tonight, just a couple of hours ago, from the state President, explaining that I have been excommunicated. So for the first time in a year, they finally admitted that it was a disciplinary council.

John Dehlin [00:45:12] So they lied to you?

Stephen Bloor [00:45:14] They've lied to me for a year, yeah.

John Dehlin [00:45:19] How does that make you feel?

Stephen Bloor [00:45:23] I'm pleased to find out eventually what it was when I suspected it was a secret disciplinary council. Now I know it was. It makes me angry. Makes me feel angry that they could do that.

John Dehlin [00:45:38] So they. They lied to you, said that they weren't going to hold a disciplinary council. They held one. They excommunicated you and then they refused to tell you and strung it along for a year.

Stephen Bloor [00:45:50] Mm. But they finally sent me an email confirming it.

John Dehlin [00:45:54] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:45:55] So. Yeah. So we can move forward now. They've also cancelled the meeting on Sunday, so there will be no meeting.

John Dehlin [00:46:05] Do they say why?

Stephen Bloor [00:46:07] Well, because of my. The conditions for the meeting were that they would. Would give me written information, and they said because we can't give you that information, then there's no point in the meeting, so it's not going to happen.

John Dehlin [00:46:25] So where do you go from here?

Stephen Bloor [00:46:29] I'm. Well, there's a newspaper article that's coming out, been published online. To be honest, the newspaper reporter didn't pursue the angle that I wanted. But he does mention some of the issues that we've talked about with this Dinser and Pilinary Council. He did cotton on to the controlling nature of the church and the fact that nearly every aspect of our lives the church gets involved with, including our underwear. So he thought that was odd. So they've written a newspaper article tonight about Mormon underwear.

John Dehlin [00:47:06] What's the publication?

Stephen Bloor [00:47:09] It's a West Britain. I'll put it online. It's in the uk. Former lds. I'll publicize it around the other sites.

John Dehlin [00:47:15] Send us a link.

Stephen Bloor [00:47:17] Yeah. It's not what I intended, but it's a non member, so they pick up on things that we don't expect.

John Dehlin [00:47:27] Sure.

Stephen Bloor [00:47:28] You know, I tried to emphasize that I felt that the church was hiding from this excommunication, disciplinary procedure thing because of my association with the Tom Phillips fraud case. But he didn't pick up on that.

John Dehlin [00:47:43] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [00:47:44] I did emphasize the pain of transition, the feelings of betrayal when people leave the church and discover all these untruths and so on, which he did pick up on. And he handled that quite well. But I didn't write the article. He wrote it as he saw fit.

John Dehlin [00:48:02] Got it.

Stephen Bloor [00:48:02] So that's coming out next week in the paper, but it's online tonight.

John Dehlin [00:48:07] Okay, so share that link with us.

Stephen Bloor [00:48:12] Okay.

Life After the Church and the State of UK Mormonism

John Dehlin [00:48:12] Where do you go now?

Stephen Bloor [00:48:15] Well, I'm involved with a group which is international, called Truth Will Prevail. There's a team of us including Chris Ralph and Sophia Ralph and some Swedish people. There's Tom Phillips, of course. And basically we are leading a campaign for openness, honesty and transparency in the church. The fraud case is continuing. We're pursuing various different avenues. It's ongoing. So with Truth Will Prevail, this organization that we formed, we will continue to push for openness and honesty.

John Dehlin [00:49:07] Will you share with. Is there a website for Truth will prevail?

Stephen Bloor [00:49:12] Yeah, truthwillprevail.com.

John Dehlin [00:49:14] okay. Will you share? Okay. Make sure that we share that in the description as well.

Stephen Bloor [00:49:19] A lot of stuff's being done behind the scenes. We're not very public about it. Things are being done throughout Europe as a group. We're pushing things in, like Sweden, for instance. There's national articles being published and. Sweet. So things are happening in various areas.

John Dehlin [00:49:40] Why not just leave the church alone? Why go after it? And I'm not giving you the trope. I'm just saying why not just let believers have their belief and let the church do its thing?

Stephen Bloor [00:49:54] Maybe there will come a time when I will. I thought it would be this year. But I don't like injustice. I can't tolerate dishonesty. I have a tremendous feeling of compassion and empathy for people who are caught up in it. I want to try and prevent any form of misery that you can suffer in your association with the church. So I want to make it transparent. I think the church can change. It has changed in the past. And it's only through the efforts of me and many others, including yourself, that the church will stand up and actually start to change and become more open and more compassionate. It may take decades, it may generations.

John Dehlin [00:50:50] Okay, you broke up for a second. You said more compassionate. Repeat what you said at the end.

Stephen Bloor [00:50:53] Okay, you said, okay, okay. It may take generations, may take decades, but it's only when people start standing up for truth and honesty, openness, compassion, that things change. Blacks in the priesthood was a massive issue at the moment. It's currently the way the Church treats people, lesbian and homosexual. At the LBGTG problem, you know, people are suffering, real people are suffering, and that's got to stop. And it will, but only through the efforts of the people speaking up, you know, And I don't know for how long I'm going to do it, but I'll do what I can when my book comes out. Hopefully that will help someone, even if it helps one person, you know.

John Dehlin [00:51:49] Do you get a sense. Do you get a sense that the Church is in trouble in the UK big time? What's your, what's your evidence of that?

Stephen Bloor [00:52:01] Well, wards are closing. I mean, I was told when I was bishop about maybe two years before I was, before I resigned as bishop by the state president. At the time, we were at a special meeting, so there was bishops and relief side presidents, actually. And the stake president came and he

Guest [00:52:21] said,

Stephen Bloor [00:52:24] I'm going to tell you now something which is secret only for your ears. Do not tell the members. But the times are coming when there will be a massive exodus from the Church and even the very elect will be deceived and leave the Church. And we went away from that meeting quite worried. But, you know, we were the select few who knew this, but we were not allowed strict instructions. Do not tell the members for fear of panicking them. Now, I didn't realize, but actually they weren't telling us what would happen. There wasn't a prophecy. I didn't realize it was already happening and I wasn't aware of it. And they were just telling me what was already occurring around the world, that thousands of people are leaving.

John Dehlin [00:53:14] Right. And what's your evidence that people are in fact leaving now.

Stephen Bloor [00:53:20] Well, you just got to see how many wards are closing in the UK. The number of people joining UK, former LDs, this support group. Yeah, you know, we're growing constantly. Wards are struggling. I've got other family members around the world who are discovering the truths about the naughty bits of the church, so to speak, and even the very elect. I know a lot of people who can't speak out for fear of reprisals and upset losing their spouses. I know state presidents. When I was just a couple of years back, I was approached by the Moscow State president of Moscow, lovely fellow, who emailed me out of desperation because he no longer had a testimony of the gospel. He was a stake president of Moscow. He was the first stake president in Russia. And he emailed me for advice on what to do next while he was

John Dehlin [00:54:25] stake president, while he was state president. Wow, that's crazy.

Stephen Bloor [00:54:29] Yeah, so, I mean, I was receiving emails all the time. Now I've not received so many lately because I've kind of distanced myself over the last year. But I used to get quite a few when I was more active.

John Dehlin [00:54:47] I've heard Scotland's in a world of trouble. Sweden's obviously going down the drain. Yeah.

Stephen Bloor [00:54:58] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:54:59] So. Oh, go ahead. What were you gonna say?

Stephen Bloor [00:55:01] Oh, good. No, it's fine.

John Dehlin [00:55:04] So let's just close. Somebody might say, well, you know, Stephen's just a bitter, angry Mormon, ex Mormon who doesn't stand for anything now. And. And I don't like people that have that stereotype. So why don't we end? First of all, let me thank you for your story. Thank you for being willing to speak out and share. It's rare that a bishop loses his testimony while bishop, and so I think that's an important story. But why don't we end, if you're okay by just telling us what you do believe and what you do stand for now and what's important to you now and what you think life is about now?

New Identity, Humanism, and Moving Forward

Stephen Bloor [00:55:49] Well, I class myself as a humanist, basically believing in the empathic compassion of most of humanity and that I want to push forward that side of our nature. Empathetic compassion. I. I like to think that as a society we can move forward without religion. So anything I can do there to help in the community, I do more with friends and family. We realize we have more time on our hands now that we weren't so involved in the church. And I organize a local community walking group which benefits people who are stuck at home on their own, maybe widows or widowers and I help to get them out and we go out into the local countryside. I'm more involved in the community than I was before and it's real. What I find about the church is it's kind of replica of. It's an artificial society outside of the normal community, at least in Britain it is, anyway. They try to replicate what's in society, but in a very small way. And I'm more involved in the local community, which is good. So as a family, we're trying to do that.

John Dehlin [00:57:29] How many of your siblings are still members or actively?

Stephen Bloor [00:57:35] My brother's not a non believer. The others are still active. Three girls. There's two boys and three girls. So the girls are still in the church.

John Dehlin [00:57:49] Has that affected your relationship with them?

Stephen Bloor [00:57:53] Yeah, it does kind of create some distance. Having said that, we are quite close family and we try not to talk about the issues that come between us, but focus on what unites us despite our change of beliefs.

John Dehlin [00:58:16] That's great. What about your children?

Stephen Bloor [00:58:19] They were delighted when we left.

John Dehlin [00:58:22] All of them?

Stephen Bloor [00:58:23] Yeah. The oldest was 18, I think. Yeah, it was 18. We had problems with him just prior, about a couple of years before, when he was 16, he ran away from home because of the pressures of our expectations, basically, with church. Once I admitted to him that I no longer believed, he should have seen a sigh of relief. Whoa, dad. Now we can talk to each other like normal adults, normal human beings. So that was good. So our relationship with our kids has improved. The youngest was. Well, he's now 16, so he would have been about 11 at the time, so it didn't affect him too badly. But they all hated church anyway, so it was boring, so they're very grateful.

John Dehlin [00:59:18] So can. Can you find happiness outside of Mormonism?

Stephen Bloor [00:59:22] You know what? I don't know if you know this about me, but, you know I'm barefoot most of the time. As a podiatrist, I started going barefoot about six years ago as an experiment. It's a long story, but basically I don't wear shoes most of the time, so I got involved with barefooters organizations. I'm involved with the National Trust, which is a big organization in the uk, conserving nature and historical buildings and so on. And we have a barefoot festival, which may sound a bit odd, but basically we celebrate the potential of the bare human foot, so with judo and yoga and various other things. Ironically, just after I resigned as a bishop and lost my congregation and community, the local National Trust invited me to be involved with their barefoot activities. So we had meetings where I would Lecture to them on the benefits of barefoot for health. So yeah, I got involved in that. So that's interesting.

John Dehlin [01:00:32] So what if it's, what if it's raining and it's cold?

Stephen Bloor [01:00:36] Ah, it's even better. No, I mean if it's really cold, then I wear five fingers. Those are glove like shoes, which are great. So yeah, we've made a lot of friends actually community through taking off our shoes. So it's been quite fun really.

John Dehlin [01:00:57] And so you're saying that there is joy after Mormonism for you?

Stephen Bloor [01:01:02] Yeah, you find new things. You don't have to be given a purpose. You find your own, you know, find your own purpose, find your own mission and start contributing to society in ways that you never could imagine before, you know, so it's great.

John Dehlin [01:01:21] Tell us the five benefits of the top five benefits of not wearing shoes.

Stephen Bloor [01:01:28] Well, you don't get bunions, but you very rarely. You don't get athlete's foot.

John Dehlin [01:01:34] I don't have any

Stephen Bloor [01:01:37] stronger arches.

John Dehlin [01:01:38] Okay.

Stephen Bloor [01:01:39] Basically you don't need to see a podiatrist. To be honest, I was my father and my father was really worried about me when I went barefoot. So you're going to lose all your patience. But funnily enough, I've gained more patience because I'm barefoot. Because actually people think that actually I believe why I live what I believe. So people come to me for rehabilitation. Most podiatry is just fit orthotics, but I teach people how to fix their feet with exercises.

John Dehlin [01:02:08] What if you step on glass or a nail or something?

Stephen Bloor [01:02:12] Now it's a myth there's less glass out there than you imagine. And if you can see it, you can avoid it. If it's too small to see, then if you've got tough feet like I have, then it won't harm you.

John Dehlin [01:02:28] So I'm not gonna ask you to show us your feet.

Stephen Bloor [01:02:32] My feet? The soles of my feet are like a expensive Italian ladies leather handbag.

John Dehlin [01:02:41] Nice. Someday, someday I want to see your feet.

Final Reflections and Closing

Stephen Bloor [01:02:46] All right, all right.

John Dehlin [01:02:47] Stephen Bloor, thank you so much for joining us on Mormon Stories. Thanks for your courage. Thanks for your candor, your integrity, and for your story. I've wanted to interview you for many, many years. So I'm glad I got to do it.

Stephen Bloor [01:03:02] Yeah. And to be honest, when you asked me years ago, I wasn't ready.

John Dehlin [01:03:06] Yeah, well, that's okay.

Stephen Bloor [01:03:07] You know, it's taken me a while to get to this point.

John Dehlin [01:03:11] I'm not going anywhere.

Stephen Bloor [01:03:13] It takes time, doesn't it? You know, you go through the transition and get past the pain and move on and find the joy. So I'm happier than ever now and grateful, Ever grateful for my brother who started the whole process and got me thinking. So grateful for that. And thank you for you, for your support over the years, even if you didn't know it, but you just being there in the background. Thank you, John.

John Dehlin [01:03:46] My pleasure. Next time I come to uk, I want to meet you.

Stephen Bloor [01:03:50] Excellent. That would be superb. I can take you on a barefoot walk.

John Dehlin [01:03:53] All right, I'll do it. I'll do it.

Stephen Bloor [01:03:55] Okay.

John Dehlin [01:03:55] All right. Stephen, bless you. Thank you so much.

Stephen Bloor [01:03:58] Thank you. No, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk with you. I really appreciate it, John. Thank you.

John Dehlin [01:04:04] My pleasure.

Stephen Bloor [01:04:05] I know you're a busy man. You've got loads of. You're being pulled in many directions. I know. So thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate that.

John Dehlin [01:04:12] It's my pleasure. It's an honor. Thank you, Stephen.

Stephen Bloor [01:04:15] Okay, Take care.

John Dehlin [01:04:16] Take care.

Guest [01:04:19] Thank you for joining us today on Mormon Stories. Music today was provided by the Saber Rattlers. Check them out@sabre-rattlers.com the Mormon Stories logo was generously donated by StudioCase.com thanks for listening.

Guest [01:04:34] Come, come, you saints no toil nor labor fear but with joy wend your way though hard to you this journey may appear Grace shall be as your day Tis better far for us to strive Our useless cares from us to drive to the San Jo your hearts will swell. Oh, all is well, all is well. Why should we mourn? I think our lot is high Tis not so all is right why should we think to earn a great reward if we now shun the fight? Get up your.

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