Introduction and Spelling His Name

Part 1 of 2 · Ep. 135

Guest [00:00:12] When I die and they lay me to rest Gonna go to the place that's best when they lay me down to die Going on up to the

John Dehlin [00:00:25] spirit in the sky Ben Washburn, welcome to Mormon Stories podcast.

Bengt Washburn [00:00:31] He.

Bengt Washburn [00:00:32] Thank you for having me on Mormon Stories podcast. Glad to be here.

John Dehlin [00:00:37] It's my pleasure. You know, it may come as a surprise to you, but there might be one or two people in my listening audience who have actually not heard of you before. So let me brag about you for just a second. Okay.

Bengt Washburn [00:00:48] Oh, sweet. I love this. Yes. Cool.

John Dehlin [00:00:51] All right, as I look on your website, which is getbenked.com or bent.com, i guess we should start out by clarifying how you spell your name. Tell us how you spell your name. B, E, N, G, T, G. And the G is.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:07] It's silent.

John Dehlin [00:01:08] It's silent.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:08] Which is how I get my street name. Silent G. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:01:13] You have a lot of cred. Street cred.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Dehlin [00:01:18] So getbent.com with the G, B, E, N, G, T. Yeah. It says that you've appeared on television.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:24] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:01:24] On the Late Show. The Late, Late show with Craig Ferguson. That's pretty swanky.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:28] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:01:30] Live at Gotham at Comedy Central.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:32] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:01:33] Looks like you've been on several radio shows, all of which I've never heard of before, except for Public Radio International and npr.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:40] Yeah, yeah. And cbc. I was just on the Canadian broadcasting.

John Dehlin [00:01:44] Did you throw in a gratuitous. A boat.

Bengt Washburn [00:01:48] A boat. Several.

John Dehlin [00:01:53] It also says. It also says here that you were the winner of the San Francisco International Comedy Competition. You know, the Vancouver International Comedy Festival. You performed at the 2002 Winter Olympics, performed for the US troops in Iraq.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:09] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:02:09] You've performed at a lot of corporate gigs like Marriott and Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Frito Lay, Home Depot.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:17] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:02:18] Yada, yada, yada.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:20] Just a comic. I'm a comic.

John Dehlin [00:02:22] Are you the most famous LDS comic that there's ever been?

Bengt Washburn [00:02:26] No. I think. I wonder, has there been any. Are there. I know a couple others. There's Ryan Hamilton and he was on Live at Gotham, and he was on Last Comic Standing and he went. He advanced a little bit.

John Dehlin [00:02:41] Okay.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:41] So maybe he's more famous than me even.

John Dehlin [00:02:44] Except I've never heard of him. So, you know, he fails the John Dehlin test.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:48] Yeah, there you go. Right there. Yeah. Yeah. He's. He lives in New York and he was actually named two years ago by Rolling stone magazine top 10 comic to watch. Okay, so there's one. And he's better.

John Dehlin [00:03:03] He's your nemesis.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:04] My nemesis. He's my buddy, actually. He's. He's really funny. He's super clean, unlike me. He's squeaky clean. Comedy. And a very active Mormon, unlike me. I gotta unlike you.

John Dehlin [00:03:17] Well, you're scared. You're scaring off our audience before you even begin.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:20] I'm sorry. Or bringing them in. I think that's true. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:03:27] Well, let's. Well, let's get to you without any further ado.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:33] Okay.

John Dehlin [00:03:34] You're a comedian.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:36] Yeah. Stand up comedian.

John Dehlin [00:03:39] Let's go way back. Let's talk about the ways in which your. Your parents messed you up to the point where you would want to become a comedian.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:49] That's a good. That's a very good guess. Accurate. Well done. I don't know if they messed me up. There were seven kids that might have something to do with it. You know what I mean? Four older brothers, two younger sisters. So I was like in the exact wrong place in the line of siblings, if you think about it. I mean, that means four older boys picking on me. And then I got two younger sisters who I can't really pick on, I guess you could say. You know what I mean?

John Dehlin [00:04:21] Sure.

Bengt Washburn [00:04:22] I'm always getting a beating and I can't give one out.

John Dehlin [00:04:25] That's what I kind of sandwiched. Sandwiched by brutality.

Bengt Washburn [00:04:28] Yes.

John Dehlin [00:04:29] Yeah. In Mapleton, Utah.

Bengt Washburn [00:04:30] Mapleton, Utah. Little tiny town there.

John Dehlin [00:04:33] Is that. South of Provo.

Bengt Washburn [00:04:35] South of Provo. Just right off of Springville, up in the mountains. My dad's a psychiatrist. Or he was.

John Dehlin [00:04:41] Where did he train?

Bengt Washburn [00:04:43] University of Utah. It's where he went to medical school. He met my mom at byu, I think they met at byu. Did he go to byu? My dad wasn't. He converted to Mormonism even though he grew up in a little town in Utah. Monroe, Utah. He converted. So when he met my mom, they met at a dance. This is kind of interesting. They both had polio and they met at a dance, so there's probably something there.

John Dehlin [00:05:11] Did they. Were they like fdr? Did they have canes or braces?

Bengt Washburn [00:05:15] You know, a bit of a limp and that kind of stuff and difficulty. All I'm saying is if everybody got up to dance, there's a good chance they'd be the two sitting there and like, oh, hi, how are you? Yeah, I don't dance either.

Bengt Washburn [00:05:26] Why?

Bengt Washburn [00:05:26] Well, well, because I kind of can't very well. You know what I mean? I don't know how it went down. I just know they both are survivors of polio. You were asking me what did my parents do yeah, to mess you up that you would be a comic.

John Dehlin [00:05:42] So aside from being sandwiched between two

Bengt Washburn [00:05:45] genders of brutality, I think the idealism. I read a book story. What's that guy named McClellan or McKean? He's talking about comedians. And he said they're the disillusioned idealists. And I think that's true. You know what I mean? A lot of comedians are these. They were idealists at one point, and then it falls apart. And I think there's a lot of comedy in there.

John Dehlin [00:06:14] I've heard that a skeptic is an idealist who's been burned.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:17] That makes sense. That makes total sense. Well, and I was raised idealist. I don't know if it was the. The personality or the culture or my personality in the culture. But growing up Mormon, I took it all very seriously as a young child.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:33] Should tell you this. I grew up my childhood here. Utah. I grew up in Utah. Anybody else grew up in Utah? Here? All right, which is good. I like. It's not that weird.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:43] People think it's very weird.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:44] It's not grown up Mormon.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:46] Not any weirder than growing up Amish.

John Dehlin [00:06:51] Shit.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:51] That should have been a big joke. Like half of your.

Bengt Washburn [00:06:55] Yeah, that's about right. You learn, you learn.

Bengt Washburn [00:07:02] You really don't know about yourself until you leave home.

Bengt Washburn [00:07:06] You know what I mean?

Bengt Washburn [00:07:07] That's the way life works. Like, I didn't know really who I was until I turned 19.

Growing Up Mormon with Quirky Parents

Bengt Washburn [00:07:12] They gave me a suit and a

Bengt Washburn [00:07:13] 10 speed bike because I grew up in Utah. And they gave me the bike and I went on my Mormon mission. And that's when I found out that

Bengt Washburn [00:07:20] people thought we were weird.

Bengt Washburn [00:07:21] You know what I mean? I had no idea until then because everybody in Mapleton, Utah was like me. They had a basement full of food and you know what I mean? Not fancy food, right? You just had like a few thousand pounds of wheat and some beans, bottled cherries. We had tons of cherries because my parents, we lived in a cherry orchard. So we had all that and then no toilet paper. Which was always kind of strange to me because, you know, you could see the menu. Wheat, fruit, beans, no toilet paper. You worrying about the apocalypse. I got a prophecy for you. Shit happens. Yeah, especially when you, like, eat cherries and chase it with some wheat. The worst thing about food storage to me was my mom didn't want to throw it away.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:23] That was always the problem, you know,

Bengt Washburn [00:08:24] I mean, so that bumper crop of cherries in the 70s, we'd have to eat that before it went bad. That was the thing, my mom. You're always. We were always eating stuff before it go bad. You know what I mean? Eat this before it goes bad. If my mom had a restaurant, it

Bengt Washburn [00:08:39] would be called Eat this before it goes bad.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:44] She'll still do it. You'll show up here. Quick, Ben. Eat this before it goes bad. Quick. That little word. Always with that phrase, quick. How close is it? Too bad, Mom.

Guest [00:08:56] Are we.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:57] We seconds away from critical mass and botulism with the hurry? So, you know this basement full of cherries from the 70s, and then along come the 80s, go down the basement, get some of those chairs. You got to eat them before they go bad. And then, of course, you'd push it too far. You eat a quart of dicey cherries and everybody's bleh. You know, Then Mom. Well, I guess we didn't eat those cherries fast enough. Might be the cherries. Really, Mom? You think it was the cherries from the 70s? Do you think it was the cherries you bottled during Watergate that have transformed our colons into salad shooters? And that's what happened, Mom. Is that what went down?

Bengt Washburn [00:09:46] But growing up Mormon, I took it all very seriously as a young child.

John Dehlin [00:09:50] So pretty devout household. Tell us about the devoutness of the household.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:54] I was very devout, and parents were pretty on and off devout. I always thought they were devout. You know what I mean? You know how when you're a kid, you assume they're devout? And I took all those rules, and, I mean, they kept the rules. We had the basement full of year supply. They were serious about the year supply. I remember every Sunday talking about church. Lots of family home evenings. And I don't know what. What it is. They would talk to me about church. They would talk about. I always remember talking about the second coming a lot. That's all I remember. We had a basement full of food, and I was sure that Jesus was going to be back, like, real soon. And I think those stories probably, they really captured my imagination. I mean, I would think about those a lot.

John Dehlin [00:10:43] Kind of scared.

Bengt Washburn [00:10:44] Yeah, they would scare me. And I had a very active conscience. Had being the operative word. And I was very. Yeah, I was worried. You know, I always felt a little bit guilty, a little bit scared.

Bengt Washburn [00:10:59] And I'm all for prep. I think it's wise to prepare, but it's not wise to, like, not be ready for today. You know what I mean? Like, I. I remember when the turn of the century came around, the year 2000, you know, all the people that, like, dropped Everything is like, oh, this is the big one. He is coming. He's gonna be here. Then they like drop out of college

Bengt Washburn [00:11:19] and you know what I mean?

Bengt Washburn [00:11:20] They max out their credit cards and about January 3rd, 2000. Aww, dang. Yeah, what do you know? He didn't come when you thought he would. Kind of works out that way sometimes. Have you talked with the Jews? How long have they been waiting around? What do you think? I had people I know, people that literally take their kids out of school because they want to keep them pure for when you know they're not going to need a college education. Jesus will be back. What are you talking, idiot. You know, I mean, now you're not preparing for something that'll probably happen. Order to be prepared for something that probably won't happen. You know what I mean? Why don't you just drop out of college and learn how to paint with your mouth in case you break your neck?

Bengt Washburn [00:12:11] Why don't you do that?

Bengt Washburn [00:12:16] Let's go to the beach. I didn't take sunblock. I'm counting on an eclipse, I'm pretty sure.

John Dehlin [00:12:24] But you're a true believer.

Bengt Washburn [00:12:25] I was absolutely. Absolutely a true believer. Yeah. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:12:31] Raised to do that seminary?

Bengt Washburn [00:12:35] Yeah. Well, once I. I was never very good at doing homework, attending things, if I could get out of it. I did graduate seminary, but barely. But yeah. What's seminary?

John Dehlin [00:12:47] A bit of a slacker.

Bengt Washburn [00:12:48] Bit of a slacker. That's what I was. A dreamer. Sit around.

John Dehlin [00:12:53] So you're simultaneously a slacker and a literal believer?

Bengt Washburn [00:12:57] Yes. See? And now you're gonna get in trouble.

Bengt Washburn [00:12:59] But a slacker.

Bengt Washburn [00:13:00] So I guess I was kind of doomed. You know what I mean? I was bound to be disillusioned with his highs. I took things so literally with religion.

Faith, Guilt, and a Mormon Upbringing

John Dehlin [00:13:12] So did you have a lot of guilt?

Bengt Washburn [00:13:14] Oh, lots of guilt. Lots of guilt. Especially when I went through puberty. That's when the guilt hit.

John Dehlin [00:13:22] Why is that?

Bengt Washburn [00:13:22] Suddenly I have this sex drive. I knew nothing about sex. I didn't go to the sex ed talk at school. My mom erroneously figured my dad had told me enough and I had four older brothers. Maybe she figured they had told me enough. For whatever reason, she said, oh, you don't need to go to that sex ed class. They had sixth grade and I didn't go. I was so clueless about sex. I have a bit. I do sometimes, but maybe this might be too adult. I don't know. It's kids. Watch it. Anyway, what happened is I thought that a nocturnal emission was masturbation and that really messed up my head. It's pretty funny on stage, though, when I talk about that, actually, I know that seems like a.

John Dehlin [00:14:12] Go ahead and do your thing.

Bengt Washburn [00:14:13] Well, what happened?

John Dehlin [00:14:15] Keep it as clean as humanly possible, but don't stress about it. Just tell your story.

Bengt Washburn [00:14:19] Okay, so what happens is, how does it go? I thought, well, I tell people that I learned about sex basically in church because I didn't get to talk in school. We didn't talk about at home. So the only place we talked about sex was in church. That my sex ed class was Mormon Sunday School. And that's just. And this is what I learned in my sex ed, Mormon Sunday school. If you masturbate, you will go to hell. And they said other stuff, but I didn't hear it. I just sat there going, dang it, that's a short ride.

Bengt Washburn [00:14:55] But in actuality, I wasn't thinking that. I was thinking, what is masturbation? I didn't know what that was. I literally didn't. It's a big word. I didn't really know what it was, but. So I run home and I'm looking in the dictionary under masturbation, and I find it. Then I have to look up five more words. You know what I mean? Because it's. It's just this chain reaction to ignorance.

Bengt Washburn [00:15:24] And then I finally figure out what it is. Oh, that. And. But I didn't. Still. I didn't know what it was. I ended up with this confused in my head that I thought it was a nocturnal emission. I'll cut out the rest of the bit, but I literally was setting my alarm for two in the morning so I could wake up and prevent, you know, my.

Bengt Washburn [00:15:49] Can I say penis? My penis from marching me to hell. I thought it was like, you know, I literally, stop, don't do this. This is evil.

Guest [00:15:55] And

John Dehlin [00:15:58] so, I mean, you joke about it, but that's. I mean, I've. I'm studying psychology. I've actually talked to people that suffered pretty severe emotional trauma from the guilt they experienced from this exact scenario that you just described.

Bengt Washburn [00:16:13] Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Very traumatic. Very traumatic. And I mean, this is over a period of how many months and months and months of me not understanding that I'm normal, that I'm not weird, that this is part of the normal function that God gives you, this sex drive. And when I. When I do this, or nature, whatever you may believe, but it's there. And when I do it on stage, there's more facts and it's more. It's funnier. It flows Better and all that, but yeah, I guess it would be. It was traumatizing, maybe. I don't know.

John Dehlin [00:16:49] So is it weird to do a bit about something in a. In a comedic way that has such deep, painful roots potentially? Or do you. Do you get over it or you just kind of.

Bengt Washburn [00:17:05] Yeah, maybe I'm doing that stuff. I don't know. Maybe I'm compartmentalizing or it's kind of cathartic in a way I laugh at really, is when it's all put together a very, very funny bit. And I think it's powerful and I think there's enough people have gone through that or something similar that it's very truthful and meaningful and it gives my job meaning. I mean, I feel good about what I'm doing when I do that bit. I feel good about it. Ironically, I also get many Mormons who tell me I'm going to hell for talking about that. That's the often I got. Just this weekend, someone I'd gone to high school, I got word they think I should clean up my act. And I'm like, okay, I gotcha. Don't talk about this stuff, because that's so healthy, you know?

John Dehlin [00:17:56] Yeah. So this, this bit that you do now, now you've got me wanting to hear it. Is there someplace we could access it or do I just need to tell you to do it?

Bengt Washburn [00:18:04] I didn't do it on the that show, did I? I didn't do it. I didn't do that bit. Dang it.

John Dehlin [00:18:10] Do you remember it?

Bengt Washburn [00:18:11] Oh, yeah, yeah, let's do it.

John Dehlin [00:18:14] And then if we have to put it in post production.

Bengt Washburn [00:18:17] Okay, okay. So I grew up very sexually repressed. I mean, Mapleton, Utah, they would not even put out the condoms out at the store. You know how you go to the store and the condoms would be back, like behind the counter?

Bengt Washburn [00:18:34] They said teenagers would steal them, which of course is. Yeah, right. You lose a few condoms. How about unwanted pregnancy? How expensive is that? But they hide them. And I think they hid the condoms because they're afraid teenagers would find the condoms, get all excited and curious about sex, right? Of course. I was already excited and curious about sex because I had a penis. You know, like the sight of a condom is gonna Suddenly remind a 13 year old boy about this condition. Constant boner, you know, like, wow, I hadn't thought about you in seconds. So they hide the condoms. But then every spring, pregnancies, of course, wherever you have people pregnancies, that's the way it's supposed to work, you know, and then the whole town.

Bengt Washburn [00:19:14] What happened? What went wrong? Well, Satan is so powerful, you know, I bet you they seen a condom. You know, just this. Hide. Yeah, they hide the condom. Saying condoms makes teenagers have sex is like saying the headlights on my car make the sun go down. You know, it's that logical.

Bengt Washburn [00:19:34] Say hi. The condoms every spring. Now I don't think teenagers should have condoms. I really, I mean should have sex. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should have sex. I really, I don't even think, I don't think the little poop should drive. You know what I mean? I don't think teenagers should operate vehicles or genitalia. I don't even think they should own genitalia. It's one of those things that make you doubt in God, you know, the world. You see things in the world, you're like, how could there be a God with that? You know, like poverty and war and astroturf. How could there be a God?

Bengt Washburn [00:20:04] And that's teenagers with genitalia is one of these things. Like how could an all knowing God give the teenager the baby making equipment that makes people. How would you put the teenagers. There you go, kids, knock yourself up. I mean out go just insane. So I don't think teenagers should have sex, but why not give them condoms, right? I'll tell this to people. Well, I think the condom should just be out there and available and they'll. Oh, but then you're telling them to have sex, Ben. No, no I'm not. If I give someone a condom, I'm not saying have sex. I'm saying I wish you were sterile.

Bengt Washburn [00:20:35] Right? That's what I'm saying. I wish nothing worked. But you're a teenager and I know you've got all the restraint of a hypochondriac with health insurance. So here's a condom. So I don't think teenagers should have sex, but you should put out the condoms. And the reason I'm passionate about this is because I'm passionate about the idea. Tell your kids, tell your teenagers what is going on. You know, tell them about sex. Put the condoms out there. Be honest about the situation they're in, which is God has given them this equipment. It feels amazingly good to use it, you know what I mean? And that's part of the plan.

Bengt Washburn [00:21:14] He's just trying to fool you in and making people, you know, he is. I mean first he said make people and then no one was making them. And then so he made it feel amazing. Sex is that way. Sex Is like, well, this cake is delicious crap. A person. That's sex. That's what? Sex. That's the whole plan of God, apparently. Or nature.

Bengt Washburn [00:21:34] You know what I mean?

Bengt Washburn [00:21:34] I mean, he was. It has to be. If you think about it. Well, for instance, after a blackout, if you have a blackout in a city, what happens nine months later? You have the little spike in birth. Because we weren't conceived in love, we were conceived in boredom. A lot of us, you know, it's like, what are we gonna do? So anyway, I'm passionate about the telling kids about sex, warning them, because I never got a sex talk.

Bengt Washburn [00:22:01] Not a word about sex in the house. Seven kids in the family. So sex was happening. Seven kids in like 10 years. There were five teenage boys in our house at one time. Five. How do you not talk about sex with five teenage boys? Every morning there are five boners at the breakfast table. Can I say that?

Bengt Washburn [00:22:20] Darn things floating like we're holding a seance, you know, is that too far? And then no one's saying a word about it. As a result of this, I was blindsided by puberty. Nobody even told me that puberty was coming. You know what I mean? How about a little practical prophecy here, you know what I mean? I mean, all this words about Jesus is coming any day.

Bengt Washburn [00:22:42] Guess who?

Bengt Washburn [00:22:43] I won't. That's dirty. But anyway, you see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying?

Bengt Washburn [00:22:50] Guess who else is going to be.

Bengt Washburn [00:22:53] And just not a word. And as a result, I was blindsided by puberty. And for a guy, I don't know about women, but for a guy, puberty is a personal Armageddon. I mean, that really is. Your life changes completely before puberty. It's all fun and la la, and then suddenly you wake up. Can I say asshole? Is that there's an asshole in your head? There really is. And he's just, ooh, look at that. Look at her. Look at it.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:17] It won't shut up.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:18] Look at her.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:18] Look at her.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:19] No, no, look at her. She's our cousin.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:21] Soul.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:23] Second cousin, you know, just. And so that's. I became just. I knew nothing about sex. The only time I heard about sex was at church. That was. It was in church. And that's wrong. I got my sex talk in church.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:39] That's what I learned in Mormon Sunday school sex talk. If you masturbate, you will go to hell. They said other things, but none of the boys heard anything. We just sat there like, you know, that was a short ride. Now actually, I Wasn't saying that. I was saying what is masturbate? Because I didn't know I had had no sex. I knew nothing about it. So I run home, I look up masturbate in the dictionary. Then I have to look up like five more words. A chain reaction of ignorance. I don't know what I'm looking at. Then I figure out what that is. Then I look it up in the Bible.

Bengt Washburn [00:24:11] And I love the. The Bible is beautiful. Book of Mormon. These are beautiful scriptures. They are horrible sex manuals. Horrible. Especially the Old Testament. Do not look up anything on sex in the Old Testament masturbation. If you looked it up in the, in the Bible, in the Old Testament, self abuse, that's just confusing to a third year. Self abuse. It didn't seem to hurt. You know, this is insane. Or spilling your seed. That's the other lingo, spilling. And I actually like that one because then it's an accident, you know, like, oops, did I do that? It was my bad. Was that.

Bengt Washburn [00:24:47] So I look up all these scriptures and I don't know what it is. So now I. I haven't done this bit for a while. But basically what I end up is this place where I am literally, I think I'm going to hell in my sleep.

Sex Education, Shame, and the Church

Bengt Washburn [00:25:06] What I'm saying is I should have known the difference. I would have liked to know the difference. Just what sex was. And they should have told me clearly what masturbation was. Just up. This is what it is. I would have liked to known what it was. If it's a sin, I should know. And I should definitely know the difference between, say, masturbation and a nocturnal admission. Because I didn't know. And that's how it happened.

Bengt Washburn [00:25:28] Now I thought I was masturbating in my sleep. I thought I was just. I thought somehow I was possessed down there and it was just marching me to hell. So I was setting my alarm for two in the morning so I could wake up every like, you know, and then wake up and stop my penis from marching me to hell. Just stop. And I remember literally.

Bengt Washburn [00:25:49] What are you doing?

Bengt Washburn [00:25:50] Yelling at, you know, my crotch. What's just wrong. This is evil. That went on for months. And then I remember finally, it duh, after a bishop interview. I never forget the look on a poor bishop's face. He's a kind man. And then it becomes apparent in the process, this horrible, horrifying event for me, this confession, you know, it becomes apparent that I think this nocturnal thing is masturbation. And the look on his face of Just. And then I'm. Am I reading this right? Have I been going? You know, I don't, but I remember leaving relieved, but like, oh, so that's. So I can go on a mission.

John Dehlin [00:26:40] Okay.

Bengt Washburn [00:26:40] You know, But I mean, I literally think my entire life is, you know, in going. That was really. Yeah, that was quite a traumatic experience.

John Dehlin [00:26:56] Traumatized. So you went on a mission?

Bengt Washburn [00:26:59] Yeah, I went on a mission, though.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:02] And when I left home as a missionary, that's when I found out that some people thought coffee evil.

John Dehlin [00:27:06] Weird.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:07] This is where I really knew that we were different. Mount. Knocking on the doors like you do. I'm pedaling. One day we go pedal into a neighborhood. And in this cul de sac, big neighborhood, there are Jehovah Witnesses coming out. And if you've been more missionary, you know, that happens. You know, we were in Seattle. It would happen. So there they are, the Jehovah Witness, coming out. We're going in, and our eyes meet and we bond instantly. Do you know what I mean? We form this kind of brotherhood of suffering, you know, like, yeah, I know you. You know what I mean? And it was us. Us. There's other people around, but we like you. We're the same. Kind of like when dogs see each other in a crowd of people, we're like, we were doing that. Not that we're dogs, but we're different.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:51] But this one, I really know I was different.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:53] So I see them and I'm doing that thing. Yeah, we're the same.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:56] We are.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:57] Except you're wrong. And then I pedal.

Bengt Washburn [00:28:00] And then.

Bengt Washburn [00:28:04] This is where I still didn't understand what that meant. That that meant we were weird, because then we pedal into the cul de sac, not realizing that they. Surely they have screwed up the fishing hole. How could we not get that, you know? And then you knock on the door. We told you to go away. Yeah, you're all the same shit. They think we're like those freaks.

Bengt Washburn [00:28:27] Yeah, they do. And, you know. Yeah, I went on a mission.

Serving a Mission

John Dehlin [00:28:34] What was that like?

Bengt Washburn [00:28:36] That was really hard. It's hard. But I went to Seattle, Spanish speaking. And that was. So that means I went to Seattle, Spanish speaking, which means I didn't speak very good Spanish, of course, but it was hard. I was a true believer, which makes it, I think, even.

Bengt Washburn [00:28:58] I don't know what's harder. To go on a mission and not believe or to go on a mission and believe. I mean, again, I had a very active, like, take responsibility and the guilt feeling and all that kind of stuff. One of the Things I remember them telling me on the mission that I still to this day, they used to tell us, you are responsible for all the people in your area. You know, they're not going to go to heaven. That was my impression. But they couldn't get to heaven. There were just people's souls dependent on my worthiness and my effort.

Bengt Washburn [00:29:29] That's what you're told. I took that pretty seriously. But then that's when it started to. There's a part of me, especially as I started meeting other missionaries, I was like, surely God isn't going to send all the people in renting to hell just because these two jackasses, you know what I mean? I was trying, but I'd meet other missionaries where I was like, no way would.

Bengt Washburn [00:29:57] No.

Bengt Washburn [00:29:58] Could God, no, He wouldn't do that, surely. But it was. Mission's hard.

John Dehlin [00:30:05] Did you have any success?

Bengt Washburn [00:30:07] Yeah, Spanish speaking. Spanish speaking and, you know, they'll let you in and they're looking for something and they want to be more American. Maybe that's it. I don't know. But we had some success. And the mission is really. When I know the mission, they send you out to convert people. Is it to convert people or to convert yourself?

Bengt Washburn [00:30:33] I don't know. But for me, it was the first time I'd really left home. So there's that whole aspect of, wow, big buildings and, you know, just. Well, it's the first time I'm leaving Utah. I'd gone to Disneyland a few times, so I had seen some minorities, but not this many and not every day, you know, talk to them and interact with them. And then there's the companions you would have from other parts of the country, you know, from the east. And some of the companions who were not true believers, who were very definitely not true believers who were going out for their parents who were just, you know, they were doing, you know, two years to just try to avoid shame is why they were out there. And I understood that.

John Dehlin [00:31:24] Did you have any leadership? Were you in any leadership positions on your mission?

Bengt Washburn [00:31:28] I was a district leader and then I was a zone leader. But by the time I was a zone leader, I think there had been this process of where I was starting to think that some of the details were, for lack of a better word, bullshit. Some of the details, you know, little yellow planners and, well, you got to do 60 hours and all this kind of, you know, knock this many doors, give out this many Book of Mormons, and I started to see that what I felt was a poisoning of religion. And it happens in all religion, not just Mormonism, but where vanity enters into the religion and, you know, the Sadducee and the Pharisee, that kind of. I started to really see that, and that really bothered me.

John Dehlin [00:32:14] All the rules.

Bengt Washburn [00:32:15] Yeah, the rules. And then people enjoyed keeping the rules and enjoyed keeping more of the rules than you. And that. That's what bothered me. That very thing. I mean, in my opinion, that's what Jesus hated when he came back, was that. And I started to see that. And it wasn't everybody. There was wonderful, devout Mormons and then there were those that. Ugh.

John Dehlin [00:32:42] Did you ever have any profound spiritual experiences on your mission?

Bengt Washburn [00:32:48] You know, I don't know. I could never trust those things, you know, Was that something I made? Was that. Because I've had spiritual experiences walking in the woods or looking at a painting or listening to music, and so it was hard for me to separate out those feelings. I definitely had a profound conversion to some of the stories within Mormonism. The ideas, the basic ideas, the myth, the myths. They're very powerful and beautiful to me.

John Dehlin [00:33:31] Did you. Did you, you know, did you help others, you know, get converted or have those types of experiences?

Bengt Washburn [00:33:41] Yeah, yeah, we did. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:33:43] You saw other people convert and lives changed and positive things.

Bengt Washburn [00:33:46] Yes, they did. Saw some people from Peru and this woman, she converted and then her daughter converted, and her daughter was a missionary and was so obviously very, very happy with what she was doing. And then there was a young man that we baptized. That. That was definitely a spiritual experience. I mean, it was for him. I mean, there's no question, a life changing, incredibly spiritual experience. And what a great guy. I can't even remember his name. Jeez.

John Dehlin [00:34:24] But he was changed.

Bengt Washburn [00:34:26] He was changed. Or you know what? I think more so he was really looking to change. I mean, I give more credit, you know, in that process, it wasn't just Mormonism, it was him too. But he was a wonderful guy. And he had met. It's kind of like I remember thinking kind of of my dad because my dad met my mom and then converted to Mormonism. And yeah, this guy met a woman, and you're always wary of that, you know, but not in this case. I wasn't at all wary. And there were two cases of that. There's another one where a guy met the woman and he was converting and she left the church right after he converted, and he was completely converted. He really. I mean, this was something, you know, sincere and real for him. Very nice guy as well.

Life After the Mission and Finding Comedy

John Dehlin [00:35:26] So what'd you do when you got

Bengt Washburn [00:35:29] home I got home from a mission, I went to school and I decided to study art.

John Dehlin [00:35:38] Tell us where, tell us where.

Bengt Washburn [00:35:40] State University. Actually, first I went to Brigham Young University for one semester and I remember I went over to get my student ID and it was right after the first semester into the second semester and there was a guy standing at the door with a short white sleeve shirt and a tie and a haircut and stern looking middle aged guy.

Bengt Washburn [00:36:06] And as I approached the door, he just, literally just stepped in front of me in a horrible way. You think you're going to go in there and look him like that? You can just turn right around like this sense that there was something in this person, me, that needed to be beat down. And he was so wrong. He was so wrong about who I was. And it just disgusted me to the core. Disgusted me, that man did.

Bengt Washburn [00:36:31] And the abuse of power and the sole lack of just so out of touch with what gospel is and what Mormonism is and what Christianity is and what Christ is. I mean, how much fear do you have of the world that you think you have to go around micromanaging humans like this? And I remember turning around that day and going, I am not coming back here. That was just awful. And I had a problem.

John Dehlin [00:36:59] That was what led you to leave after one semester?

Bengt Washburn [00:37:01] Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't. It made me livid, just sick. And I just thought, I can't, I don't want to stay here. Well, plus my parents, I could leave home if I went to Utah State, not live at home. But no, that was very much a large part of it. It's just I knew that if I stayed in this environment that that wasn't going to be a singular event. You know, I knew that, well, this is just going to happen again and again and this will just get ugly and nasty. I'll just leave and then I'll, you know, I'll be a happier person and they'll be happier. I mean, that guy won't be happier. He needs people like me to police, you know, so he can go home and say, well, I clean the world today. Whatever.

John Dehlin [00:37:49] So you transferred to Zion?

Bengt Washburn [00:37:51] Yeah, I transferred to Zion, to Utah State University. I had a brother up there too, and he said, oh, this is fun, you'll love it up here. And I heard Utah State had a good art program and I decided to go into painting, drawing, fine art. Inside deep. Not deep, inside, really. I. I'd always wanted to do comedy. I really had always wanted to be a comedian, but it did not seem compatible with being a Mormon. And I was so naive. I thought that fine art would be. Because I knew nothing about fine art. I didn't know that there were guys. That moment in New York, you know, squirting blue paint into their colons and pooping it out on canvases. I didn't know that was going on in fine art. Was so naive. But I went to Utah State because they had a really good art program. So did byu.

John Dehlin [00:38:47] So as a child you wanted to be a comedian?

Bengt Washburn [00:38:49] I really did. I loved. I used to run around joke books and tell jokes. I did a routine in high school. I wrote my own little routine. I did a stand up routine for an assembly and it crushed. Well, I thought. I don't know if it was crushed or not. It seemed to be a lot.

John Dehlin [00:39:05] Is that good to crush?

Bengt Washburn [00:39:06] To crush is good.

John Dehlin [00:39:07] Okay.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:08] And. And I really, I really.

John Dehlin [00:39:10] Do you remember Joker too, from that original routine?

Bengt Washburn [00:39:13] I remember it was influenced by George Carlin by like a five minute bit of Carlin.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:18] Oh, I.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:19] That's the only Carlin I ever got to hear. My parents did not. I never got to be truly influenced by Carlin. And that's a shame. But yeah, I remember it was something I did a character. I put on a costume and there's something with Rice Krispies and they were my pets. And it was really dumb. It's really dumb. Stupid. But high school kids, you know, they're not dumb. They just laugh at dumb things.

John Dehlin [00:39:43] But you crushed it.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:44] Did it went really well? Yeah, I probably didn't, but to me it was, wow, this great.

John Dehlin [00:39:50] So were you always telling jokes at home and annoying your siblings and your parents?

Bengt Washburn [00:39:55] Yeah, I had a joke book that I would read and carry around and tell the jokes. Horrible.

Bengt Washburn [00:40:01] Were you.

John Dehlin [00:40:01] Were you nerdy or cool?

Bengt Washburn [00:40:03] I don't know what I was. I was always an outsider. Very much so. Even though I had lots of friends, I only had one close friend all through high school. That's it. I didn't like the obligations of friendship. It just felt. I felt like I was always being asked to give up an opinion or who I was, you know what I mean? To be liked. So I would be kind of lightly friendly to everybody. I wasn't unpopular by any means, but I was kind of an outsider, I think. And an odd one. I was an oddball.

John Dehlin [00:40:39] Would you practice your jokes in front of a mirror?

Bengt Washburn [00:40:42] Yes, yes, that is. That does lots. I used to just sit and make faces in front of mirrors for hours and do jokes. I don't know.

John Dehlin [00:40:50] You know, there must be a comedy Gene, because this sounds like Jim Carrey's childhood. This sounds like Steve Martin's childhood. I mean, there must be a comedy gene. This is as genetic as any other human condition.

Bengt Washburn [00:41:04] I think there's genetics in there. Absolutely. No, I do. My son goofs off in front of the mirror. It's heartbreaking to see. I mean, because I'm a comedian, I'm like, oh, you don't know that. This is just horrible. And I tell. Every time people say I want to be a comic, the first thing I tell them. Any advice, young comics? I'll say, my advice is, if you can quit, quit seriously. If you can just quit. But it's like you said, I think the genes, and you get hooked. You become obsessed with the process, and it's horrible.

Early Comedic Influences and College

John Dehlin [00:41:39] So who are your early influences?

Bengt Washburn [00:41:43] Jonathan Winters. When I was a kid, we'd watch Jonathan Winters and Tim Conway and Carol Burnett and Harvey Corman. That's. That's pretty much all I saw. And then listened to Bill Cosby, of course, and Amazing. And then Steve Martin, when he first came on tv, my parents thought he was a clean comic because that's how out of touch we were with the world.

John Dehlin [00:42:09] He kind of was, wasn't he?

Bengt Washburn [00:42:11] Well, he was on tv, but his act at times was kind of dirty, but by Mormon standards, very dirty. I mean, I run into that now. I mean, I was told just this last weekend that I really should clean it up. That's the word I got. And then I had that very night. It's so nice to listen to a comic who can be clean and funny. I mean, the standards are just so. Steve Martin, yeah, he was pretty clean, but my. My dad thought he was squeaky clean, and he bought the Wild and Crazy Guy or Let's Get Small and Steve Martin Wild and Crazy Guy albums, but he didn't listen to them with us.

Bengt Washburn [00:42:48] So we're listening to these albums and I was too young. Again, I don't know what a rubber is. So when Steve Martin sings Grandpa's got a Rubber, you know, I don't even know that's dirty. And I didn't even get. There's another reference to female parts and all this stuff. I didn't even get it. I didn't even know that was dirty. I was just laughing. This is funny, you know. So I bring my dad in. Dad, you gotta hear this. Meanwhile, my brothers had carefully made sure that my dad did not hear the Steve Martin record. But I bring him in and listen, dad. And I'll say, grandpa bought a rubber. My dad, just.

Guest [00:43:22] Just.

Bengt Washburn [00:43:23] Laurie, this isn't clean. He just sing it and then the next joke comes in. Oh, he stands up and never saw the albums again.

Guest [00:43:33] Again.

Bengt Washburn [00:43:33] Never saw him again.

John Dehlin [00:43:34] Oh, big scratch.

Bengt Washburn [00:43:36] Done. They disappeared. They snap. Gone. Done.

John Dehlin [00:43:41] Did you ever find yourself writing jokes about your experience in church as a teenager? Like collecting material? Church material?

Bengt Washburn [00:43:51] I didn't. I really didn't. I mean, this is something you didn't joke about. My goodness. Absolutely not. You know, when Mormons go blue, it's all poopy farty, poopy, poop farty. Because that's all you can do, you know, is poop jokes. I remember when I first hit the road, I had lots of poop jokes, and they were very clever. I was proud of some of them. And then I remember a few years later, one of the comics, somebody said, yeah, he used to tell a lot of poop jokes. It's just. Well, that's because I was blue. Mormon comics.

John Dehlin [00:44:26] So in college, you studied fine arts.

Bengt Washburn [00:44:29] Yeah, painting.

John Dehlin [00:44:30] Which came first? Your struggles with your faith or your development as a comic?

Bengt Washburn [00:44:39] Oh, that's a good question.

John Dehlin [00:44:41] And were they. And were they related at all, or were they parallel?

Bengt Washburn [00:44:44] Oh, I think they were related. Absolutely.

John Dehlin [00:44:48] Talk about the progression between those two as they interacted.

Bengt Washburn [00:44:52] I think, first of all, I studied fine art, and I really wasn't doing. I did comedy once or twice in college for contests or whatever, because I did not feel it was compatible again, with Mormon faith that you couldn't do this. So I'm doing fine art. But then I went to graduate school. Fine art, graduate school. And I really started to take my fine art very seriously. And I think that's really where I'm starting to question and wonder, you know, about literal interpretations in Mormonism. And I think it was staring at that blank canvas, you know, and asking me, what do I want to paint?

Bengt Washburn [00:45:29] Which turns into the question, what do I want? Which was really the question, who am I? I mean, fine art is a really. It forces you to question. And that's really where the face started getting questioned when I was painting in the studio alone for hours and failing miserably.

John Dehlin [00:45:48] So oil paints or watercolor?

Bengt Washburn [00:45:49] Oil paint, oil paint and drawing, that kind of stuff.

John Dehlin [00:45:53] Where were you getting your masters?

Bengt Washburn [00:45:54] Indiana University.

John Dehlin [00:45:57] That must have been a culture shock.

Bengt Washburn [00:45:59] It was, because then I leave Utah, and I go into this small class at Indiana University with all these other graduate students, none of them Mormon, all of them worldly. I mean, very worldly to me. You know, I. Not just drinking, but drugs and sex and this whole world of experience. I'm not even, I don't even swear they would comment that we had a ping pong table. Every grad school does probably. We're playing ping pong. And I remember seeing rats when I'd miss and them. What did you say?

Bengt Washburn [00:46:27] Rats.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:28] I mean, I was so. I was. It was a whole other world. Yeah. But that's when I started to question, I think. Really? And again, it was.

John Dehlin [00:46:36] Did you have.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:37] Go ahead.

John Dehlin [00:46:37] Were there fellow students who were gay?

Bengt Washburn [00:46:40] I'm wondering if, I wonder if we had any gay students in my class.

John Dehlin [00:46:46] What year were you at USU and then in graduate school? Just about.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:49] I was at USU from 1986 to 1990, I believe, and then 91 to 93 at grad school. I knew gay people at Utah State. Yeah. But they, they came out to me like my last year in college where they said, I'm gay, but. But I don't know.

John Dehlin [00:47:13] That's kind of, that's kind of in the, in the late, in the late 80s. That's not a small deal to come out as gay in Utah.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:20] That's a big deal. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:47:21] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:22] That's not an easy thing.

John Dehlin [00:47:24] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:25] And I'm so late 80s.

Guest [00:47:29] So.

John Dehlin [00:47:31] Talk more about your time with your MFA and what that led to.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:35] Yeah, I think when I was studying art, as I said, it just leads to this kind of deep introspection and then I'm away from home and I'm painting every week and I start not going to church. None of my friends are going to church. I mean, my friends were really these artists, you know, that becomes my peer group and the people I share concern and a life and a world with. And then you go to church and you just really feel you're not on the same page with people. Culturally, we really don't value the same things. I mean, one of the big things I really became obsessed with was how to me, as a fine artist, beauty was a mystery.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:18] But the moment culture to Mormon culture, beauty was definitely not a mystery. Beauty was. We knew what was beautiful, and these are the things that are beautiful. And if you can execute a depiction of what is beautiful in a. You know.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:32] You see what I'm saying? It's not a mystery. And so you just, you don't feel like you have as much in common. More and more and more, the more I go into fine art, the less I have in common with these people around me, and the more I have in common with these seven or eight friends in grad school.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:52] And then that was Very hard on the marriage. I was married to temple marriage at that time. And it was very hard on our marriage, too, to go through the poverty and the struggle and the, you know, being a male Mormon who doesn't make money, that's an awful pressure on your gender roles, both for you and your spouse.

Bengt Washburn [00:49:13] And we got married so young anyway, and the divorce, I think, was a. That's. I. When I came home to Utah from my fine arts career, or not my fine arts career, but my fine arts mfa, I came back to Utah and I started trying to pursue a fine art career. Here. I'm painting constantly and taking slides and submitting for teaching positions, but I just couldn't quite get that job, and I just couldn't get the teaching job. And then I started doing comedy on the side as a hobby again. I'd done it for one year open mic before I went to grad school. And then I went to grad school.

Bengt Washburn [00:49:48] I said, I gotta stop this. This comedy isn't compatible. It's wrong. Do your art. Then when I came home, I started doing it again as a hobby. And I had more success with comedy than art. I mean, no one was buying my paintings.

Bengt Washburn [00:50:03] I got in good shows even. I was in one of these shows at the Salt Lake Arts center that they do every year for the visual arts grants, fellowship, whatever it is. And that was a tough show to get into, but it never translated into money.

Bengt Washburn [00:50:16] I started doing comedy at the same time my activity in the church and some of my faith was waning. And I think comedy was therapeutic as that crumbled and as the marriage crumbled. That was just all material and fire for comedy.

John Dehlin [00:50:36] And of course, so was your faith crisis and your feelings about the church. The early substance of your. Of your joke material.

Bengt Washburn [00:50:49] It was in there, definitely a little of it, but not that much. I really kept it more personal. But so early on, I was a very clean comic. Very, very clean, like I said, at Poo Poo Pee Pee. And I mostly told jokes. It was all on the surface. And I was coming from a character. I was coming from a character. And a lot of these religious topics I really wasn't even touching on. I wasn't. Every once in a while, I do a few jokes that would come into play. A few? A few. I remember I had. I specifically did have one about gays. Gay clubs in Utah, I remember, had a joke about how some young woman, she was lesbian and she wanted to try a gay. Start a gay club in Utah. I don't know if you Guys ever remember this?

Bengt Washburn [00:51:41] But I remember this is about 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago now. So when I first started doing stand up, I had a bit about this. But it's true. There was a high school student and she wanted to start a gay club because she was gay. And she printed up some flyers and handed them up at school and holy shit, people went nuts. And there was a news story and they had a woman on the news waving this pamphlet. So we are very concerned about possible recruiting activities. And in my head I remember thinking, recruiting, wow. I thought my Mormon mission was tough work. But pamphlet, I mean, that's. You see what I mean?

Bengt Washburn [00:52:19] Straight guys, where are you?

Bengt Washburn [00:52:21] Okay, could somebody talk you into having sex with another guy? Even if it's a really good pamphlet,

Bengt Washburn [00:52:28] like,

Bengt Washburn [00:52:32] like a full color centerfold pop up diagram thingy. And. Well, I used to be straight, but they. Then I read your pamphlet. And wouldn't you just get a hold of a lesbian pamphlet and go right back?

Bengt Washburn [00:52:45] I would.

Bengt Washburn [00:52:50] Although high school kids, I understand they're very malleable. They can get talked into shit. But if your son is talked into that, his problem isn't he's gay. His problem is he is freaking spineless. That's his problem. He needs to learn how to say no. And they said they'd be my friend and I had sex with them. Holy shit.

Bengt Washburn [00:53:09] You're in for a hard life.

Bengt Washburn [00:53:12] You're gonna change your long distance in religion every week, buddy.

Bengt Washburn [00:53:16] Okay, if it's a really good pamphlet. And then it was. So I had a joke and it worked great. And that was about as racy as I would get, which is actually pretty edgy for Utah because you're questioning thing. But that's about as. It's probably as racist. I got the most time.

Building a Stand-Up Career on the Road

John Dehlin [00:53:41] So how do you build a, a local, you know, university or comedy club career into something that crosses state lines and even goes national?

Bengt Washburn [00:53:56] Well, you've got to. You gotta have absolutely no business sense and you have to have nothing to lose. I mean, I had nothing to lose. I got a divorce. Just. And after that divorce, I had my car, my guitar, some clothes. I mean, I had nothing and nothing to lose at that point.

Bengt Washburn [00:54:16] And I'd been doing comedy as a hobby and I just decided, I'm gonna do this and I'm just gonna do this. Now it's almost like I felt I was at rock bottom and my faith wasn't shattered. And I still feel like I have a lot of faith, but a lot of it was, you know, a bit of A mess. So that was kind of. It's like I didn't feel restrained by my Mormon upbringing at all now. In fact, I felt like I had something to say, you know, and I wasn't worried about it. I said, I'm going to do this. And.

Bengt Washburn [00:54:52] And that's the first thing you have to be able to do is live on next to nothing. Because when you start a stand up comedy career for the first at least two or three years, you're going to be making at the most, say 18,000 a year. the most.

John Dehlin [00:55:06] Wow.

Bengt Washburn [00:55:07] At the most. And you're going to be. That's if you can get the work together and you are working these kind of bad rooms, 45 weeks a year, you're on the road.

John Dehlin [00:55:20] Is that after expenses?

Bengt Washburn [00:55:23] After expenses, yeah. After you pay for your gas, at

John Dehlin [00:55:26] least you make a profit.

Bengt Washburn [00:55:27] Yeah, I make enough money where I can pay my child support and I can either have a car or a house because I also have student loans. I mean, I just lived in my car. And then I had a painting studio in downtown Ogden and I slept up there and then I would shower at the gym.

John Dehlin [00:55:45] Wait, you slept in your car on a regular basis?

Bengt Washburn [00:55:48] Oh, quite often. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:55:50] What?

Bengt Washburn [00:55:51] Yeah, I slept in my car. I had a tent. I'd pitch a tent. Sometimes I get campgrounds. No, I lived. It was about a period of a. About a year where it was family's couches, some friends couches, my car and my tent. If you do that, this is some advice for people who are going to do this. Don't get the pup tent. What you want to do is throw in an extra 30, 40 bucks and get something that when you can stand up in it because you just. It feels like a burrow. If it's a pup tent, you just feel like an animal. You just scoot in there and it's like. And there's clothes by you and it's really dehumanizing to not be able to stand up in your shelter.

John Dehlin [00:56:32] Where would you camp?

Bengt Washburn [00:56:35] Washington. Remember? Camped outside of Maple Valley. I was there for about two weeks. Iowa. Very good place to camp. Cheap. Cheap and decent showers. Horrible koas from time. Those are kind of steep. They're expensive. Can't always. But state parks. Yeah. In Washington, Iowa. Where else? Arkansas. In the snow when it was winter. That was not a good idea. No. Then it was. It was trickier. And I would not. I've slept in the car in the snow. Man, I spent a horrible night in Wyoming. That was cold. And that was for About a year that I did that. But I was young and it was. I was living the dream and I was doing it just felt so freeing. You know, I was out doing this thing that I'd always really wanted to do but felt I couldn't do.

John Dehlin [00:57:35] When. When you're at some random city performing at some random club, do you hang out with the comedians before and after? Do you have. Do the ladies show up and wait for you? Like, is there any social interaction or are you just totally on your own before and after your bit?

Bengt Washburn [00:57:53] It's incredibly lonely. Incredibly lonely. That's the other thing. And I was always kind of a loner anyway, so that fit in. But it's very lonely. What will happen is people come to the show, but they come with their friends and then you kind of generate this experience for them and then they leave. Thanks, that was nice. And they go home. Oh, thanks. And inside, a lot of comics are saying, you want to talk or hang out or something.

Bengt Washburn [00:58:21] But that's the young comics, because when you're young, you will do that. You will solicit the. This kind of contact, but it's very unhealthy and creepy and weird and you soon learn to like, I don't want to talk. No, don't really want to talk to a lot of you people.

Bengt Washburn [00:58:39] So you hang out with other comics and you have this shared experience. You know, there's a camaraderie and you hang out with them. There'll be some. The staff at the clubs you'll hang out with. And then some cities there will be people I actually meet over a period of a couple of shows. They'll come back to see me. Well, you've developed a rapport.

Bengt Washburn [00:59:03] You might even go have coffee with them and talk and actually become a friend. And then it's nice you go back to the city and that's a friend that you will see. And that's what I do usually now when I go to cities, I have quite a few friends that I'm seeing in each of those cities and quite a few familiar audience members, even. So.

John Dehlin [00:59:24] And are you just cold calling clubs saying, or do you get an agent?

Bengt Washburn [00:59:27] When I first started, it was just cold calling. And I would have to.

John Dehlin [00:59:31] You send them demo tapes or something.

Bengt Washburn [00:59:33] Send them demo tapes. And that rarely worked. The way you got work mostly was word of mouth. Like one comedy club owner would say, you should hire this guy, he's funny. And then they would let you in and you would do your thing. And if you're really funny, they'd bring you back. And if you're really funny, maybe they bump you up to headliner. What would they pay you at the beginning? The features a feature act on the road in a one nighter, in a bar where it's just. Where it can be wonderful because they're happy, they're so glad to have you. Or horrible, because they're glad to have you there so they can crap on you. And I'm serious about that. It's just like, cool, let's just give this guy crap.

Guest [01:00:12] And

Bengt Washburn [01:00:15] that bar, if you're the first guy, usually they have two comics in that show and the first guy, the opener was getting 75 bucks a night. That's it. And so when I'm starting, they'd string four of those together. So, okay, I'm getting 300 bucks. I've got to pay my own gas. They will put you up in a hotel, but I've paid my own gas, my own food. And there's quite often 3, 4, 5 hours of driving between each of these gigs each day. So, you know, you wake up, I'm living in Salt Lake, I wake up, I gotta drive to Pocatello today, I do a show the next day I wake up, I drive to Missoula, Montana, I wake up, I do a show the next day, I gotta drive to Miles City, Montana, the next day I gotta drive back over to Butte and then drive home.

John Dehlin [01:01:04] And in the car, are you like driving and writing down a joke or.

Bengt Washburn [01:01:08] Yes. Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:01:09] Practicing your routine?

Bengt Washburn [01:01:10] A lot of it depends. Your entire drive the next day depends on the show the night before. If you have a horrible show, that next drive, there's nothing worse than a long drive after a horrible show. Just horrible. Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:01:25] Can you get to the point where there are no horrible shows?

Bengt Washburn [01:01:28] Yeah, you. Absolutely, you can. A lot of comics are to that point where first of all, they're all, they're only working good rooms. They're dictating the environment. The environment is huge for stand up comedy people. They always tend to blame the comic. They would never say, well, maybe it's Jesus, sound is horrible, or just bad lighting or. Or we suck. They never say that. But you see what I mean. It's always the comic. But if you get to that place in your career, it's, it's easy, you've been doing it long enough, you know what works. And the venues are always nice. You have good shows every time.

John Dehlin [01:02:04] Is that kind of where you are now?

Bengt Washburn [01:02:06] I'm kind of there. Except every once in a while I have to take Shows that aren't that fun, that are hard. Corporate shows can be really hard, but they pay good money. So I take them, I do them.

John Dehlin [01:02:14] What do corporate shows pay?

Bengt Washburn [01:02:17] 1200. 1300 is the low that I'll take. So that's great. Yeah. For one show, twelve hundred bucks. I come in, I do a show. It'll be very clean. It won't be like my comedy club show. It'll be very clean and appropriate and it'll be really funny.

John Dehlin [01:02:32] So how are. How are corporate gigs different than comedy clubs?

Bengt Washburn [01:02:37] Corporate shows, you have to be really clean, and if you screw up, it's. Yeah, it's a big deal. That's why you get the more money, because it is a much more difficult line to walk. And that's why they're giving you those thousand, even two grand. I've gotten two grand before and I've screwed up them before too. I've screwed up on one. I was doing a fundraiser for the blind, and I have a bit where I'm talking about being a missionary and coming to the door and about how we can see you in the house. You know, as a missionary, when you're hiding and you won't even hide and we can see you.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:17] We're not blind. I say that. I said that in my bit. We're not blind. And just the sigh. I was awesome. It was horrible. I didn't acknowledge it. I just didn't know what to do. It was just this hole and it just. They came back after a little while. But, yeah, that was a big, horrible, horrible thing.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:36] We're not blind.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:37] And then I'd never thought of as a. Any other context. I don't think it really was disrespectful. But in that one, it was like, hello.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:46] We're all.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:47] We got the glasses. What are you doing? Room full of canes. Hello. Are you blind? What? Are you sure? It was horrible.

John Dehlin [01:03:57] So the worst is you just won't get invited back. Right? Word of mouth.

Bengt Washburn [01:04:01] That's pretty much the worst. I've never. I would bet there are comics who've had stop payments on checks and those kinds of things. Because comics are a mess. I mean, comics, it'll do it to you. It's. They were a mess to start with, you know.

Guest [01:04:22] When I die and they lay me to rest Gonna go to the place that's best when they lay me down to die Going on up to the spirit in the sky Going on up to the spirit in the sky that's where I'm gonna.

Corporate Gigs, TV Credits, and Marriage

Part 2 of 2 · Ep. 136

Guest [00:00:13] When I die and they lay me to rest Gonna go to the place that's best when they lay me down to die Going on up to the spirit in the sky.

John Dehlin [00:00:28] Did you tell us what the headliner makes at a regular concert?

Bengt Washburn [00:00:31] I didn't.

Bengt Washburn [00:00:32] The one nighters that features making about 75 bucks a show, the headliner on those one nighters will make anywhere from 150 to 250 a night, depending on the booker and how much they're paying in the room.

John Dehlin [00:00:44] So over time you go from being opener, you know what? Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:00:49] Opener to headliner and doing one nighters to clubs. And in the clubs it's varying money. I mean, you might be getting anywhere from. To feature again at a club, you might get anywhere from 3 to 700 for the week and you're working like Wednesday through Sunday, but you don't have to drive anywhere. And the crowds are always better. And to headline that club, you might be getting anywhere from 1200 to two grand for those four, five nights.

John Dehlin [00:01:16] And what is it? How long do you think it takes to go from the low end to the high end if you're really working hard and have talent?

Bengt Washburn [00:01:25] I started headlining way too soon. I started headlining like two years in, but that's way too soon. And I was.

John Dehlin [00:01:30] Why too soon? Why?

Bengt Washburn [00:01:31] Well, because that had to be a horrible show. I feel bad in retrospect. Everybody saw it. Horrible. Those were one nighters. The bad rooms. In a couple to three years, you really should be able to. About three years, you should be able to put together the kind of show that can pass in a bad room. You know, you should be able to do an hour. You should be able to. I would say if you've been doing comedy for five years and you haven't written 45 good minutes, you're never gonna. This is never gonna be no way to be a full on headline. I think probably around seven years to be a decent headliner. Seven years.

John Dehlin [00:02:11] What do you make it? What are you making when you reach that point?

Bengt Washburn [00:02:13] Well, then you're still not working the good rooms. And it depends. I mean, I know guys that were 60, $70,000 a year by that point, but I'm a horrible businessman, so. Not me.

John Dehlin [00:02:26] So the good. So the. What are the good rooms?

Bengt Washburn [00:02:28] What are the good rooms?

John Dehlin [00:02:30] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:31] You mean in the country?

John Dehlin [00:02:33] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:02:33] My favorite room is Acme Comedy Company and it's one of the best in the world. It's in Minneapolis. It's fantastic. It's my favorite room.

John Dehlin [00:02:41] What are some of the other ones? Just Name off the top

Bengt Washburn [00:02:45] Comedy Works, Denver Cap City Comedy Club, Austin. That's one of the top rooms. The improvs are considered the top rooms, but they aren't always the. I don't consider them the top, really. A few of them are fantastic. Fantastic. I guess there's one. Is it. I've never played them, but all I've done is audition in them, like in Melrose Improv. And it's not fun to play that club. But the Irvine Improv is amazing. I've just never gotten to play it. I'm not famous and I'm not hooked into la, so.

John Dehlin [00:03:16] And does Salt Lake have a good room?

Bengt Washburn [00:03:18] Yeah, yeah. The Wise Guys is a good room. It's a good room.

John Dehlin [00:03:21] Well, that's where you were this past weekend.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:23] Yeah, it's fun. It works. I mean, the crowds are good and it's. It's a controlled environment. The sound's good. They take care of that. That's the main thing. And it's an actual comedy club.

John Dehlin [00:03:34] And how do you go from, from that level to being on like one of the late night shows? That's the Holy Grail, right? Or not.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:41] I think the new Holy Grail is the one hour special. That's the thing.

John Dehlin [00:03:45] Like on HBO or Showtime.

Bengt Washburn [00:03:46] Yeah, Showtime. And even that's not gonna make you rich or famous. It just isn't. We live in a different world now. And fame is so easily attainable for the dumbest shit. Sorry, Stub. It's just amazing how worthless fame is now. And you know, we have a culture. We, let's face it, we make stuff for teenagers. We really do. We have a bunch of teenagers with expendable income, you know, or as I say, discretionary income and no discretion. That's what we've got and a lot of our pop culture, you know what I mean? So you, you could be. This is what I mean. You could be on tonight's show 20 times. Have you heard of Jake Johansson?

John Dehlin [00:04:28] I'm a bad guy to ask.

Bengt Washburn [00:04:29] Yeah, no, but, but you're a normal guy. You're just right. I mean, I can go downtown, any big city and say, do you know who Jake Johansson is? Any and 90% of the people won't. He's been on, I think his Tonight Show 20 plus times. And yet he can't fill a big club. He's not famous now. There was a time, 20 appearances on Carson, you would be famous. But we're so fractured and so now what it takes is a lot of FaceTime, Last Comic Standing, something like that.

John Dehlin [00:05:01] Does. How much do you make showing? Being on Letterman or Leno or whatever,

Bengt Washburn [00:05:06] they give you this standard. Like, it's. What is it? What is it? Sag, aftra wage? Seems like after it was all done, I got like 1300 bucks.

John Dehlin [00:05:18] That's pretty good for five minutes, right?

Bengt Washburn [00:05:19] Yeah, that's not bad. In a hotel room. They put me up in the Beverly Wilshire. That was kind of cool. I kept the pen. I didn't get to sleep there. I literally had to go in. I took a nap for, like, three hours. But I had to end up. After my sex. I had a gig. I had to start driving to call to Colorado, to. To Denver.

John Dehlin [00:05:38] You didn't say after your sex, did you?

Bengt Washburn [00:05:39] What was that? No, after my set.

John Dehlin [00:05:43] Oh, okay.

Bengt Washburn [00:05:43] Yeah, after my sex, I had to drive. No, my set. My wife was not there, so it's not.

John Dehlin [00:05:51] Okay. So you don't. You don't get rich on those shows either. No, that's kind of the same. You get paid at a really good room.

Bengt Washburn [00:05:57] Yeah, it's just a. It's a credit that can help you get hired and help you get book. And it booked. And it lends credibility. It's definitely. You need to get some of that.

John Dehlin [00:06:07] How'd you get on Ferguson or. Or, you know, Comedy Central?

Bengt Washburn [00:06:11] It's hard to get on those, especially when you don't live in LA or New York, and I don't. So the way I got it was there was a manager. I had a manager for a while out of the Bay Area, and Ferguson wanted to get comics that weren't from la. And so they called him up and he was no longer my manager, but he really liked what I did. And they said, we're looking for some comics to put on TV that aren't from la. Who do you have? And he gave my name and one other name, and I sent him a tape, and they said, oh, this is great. Come down and do us. It's just like that. It was really weird.

John Dehlin [00:06:43] Was it pretty cool?

Bengt Washburn [00:06:44] Yeah, it was very cool. It was very nice. I hate to say it was kind of a relief because by that time, I'd been doing comedy for 13 years and I hadn't been on TV. And I was starting to think. I've been doing it for 10 years for a living by that point, and still no TV credits. And I'm starting to think I knew. I know guys. Really funny comics, really good comics. Whole career, not one TV credit.

John Dehlin [00:07:08] Wow.

Bengt Washburn [00:07:09] Yeah. And they never can get that kind of money that can come with it. And it's horrible. You start thinking, oh, no, am I that guy? You know, I don't want to be that guy. But I was going to tell you. I thought it would be interesting, too. Is that when I was living on the couch and in the tent? That's when I met my wife, when I was in that state. Isn't that crazy?

John Dehlin [00:07:34] Where was she?

Bengt Washburn [00:07:35] She was in Ogden, Utah.

John Dehlin [00:07:38] Oh, military.

Bengt Washburn [00:07:39] Yeah, we met, and I give her a hard time all the time about going out with me. I mean, technically, she went out with a homeless man. That's pretty funny.

John Dehlin [00:07:50] Now, you joke. I saw a bit you did where you said she had alcohol in one hand and a cigarette in the other. Is that true story?

Bengt Washburn [00:07:59] Not totally. When I first met her. Let's see.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:04] Well, no.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:04] Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that was. Yeah, I met her, but she didn't know I'd met her. I was being set up with her on a blind date, and she. And so I knew who she was, and she came to a club and I saw her and. Yeah, but no, the first date. Well, no, I guess, yeah, she did have a beer, so. Yeah. And. Well, yes, she had a cigarette out. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but it wasn't at the party. She wasn't in front of me. Now I just ruined the bit. Thanks. Now everybody's going to know my wife's not Mormon.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:37] My wife's Irish Catholic. She's practicing Irish Catholic, too. I mean, every weekend, like, drunk. In fact, when I met her, she had a beer in one hand, cigarette in the other. Two Mormon rules at the same time. Ambidextrous sinner.

John Dehlin [00:08:54] Just.

Bengt Washburn [00:08:56] Of course, the Mormon in my head

Bengt Washburn [00:08:58] was looking at that, just thinking, this is hot. So we hit it off.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:04] We hit it off so well. My wife quit smoking for me. She did. Second date. Looked in my eyes. I was just looking for a good reason to quit. Isn't that nice? So then we got married, which was apparently a good reason to start back up again. But then she quit again. And to her credit, she has been quitting ever since. About 10 years.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:24] Quitting. Kind of awkward.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:26] We both do our part to make it work. You know how you do if you're in this situation. Like, her job is sneak around, right? Smoke in secret. Don't get caught. My job, act like I can't smell.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:39] So does my home.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:40] Mormon family.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:41] They just pretend.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:41] Except Mom. She's too old. She won't play along every time. Well, that's an interesting scent, Kelly, that you dabbed on during your walk.

Bengt Washburn [00:09:55] What is that scent?

Bengt Washburn [00:09:57] Yeah, mom, that's Obsession by Philip Morris. The rest of the family pretend like my wife pretends. That's what amazes me, our capacity to bullshit ourselves. How long can you say you're quitting? You know, 10, 20 years, you're quitting. You're showing up for Thanksgiving with an oxygen cart, yellow teeth and nails. Hi, Aunt Kelly.

Bengt Washburn [00:10:19] Hi, Kent.

Guest [00:10:19] How you doing?

Bengt Washburn [00:10:21] What's up? Maybe a hole in her neck even. How are we gonna explain the gaping hole in the non smoker's neck? What kind of story? I stumbled down the stairs and fell on a pencil. Well, let that be a lesson to you kids. Don't leave your pencil at the bottom of the stairs. Big old Disneyland pencil did that. As you can see by the circumference, the souvenir pencil went up to Tinkerbell's waist and took out her tar covered trachea. We're not sure why it was covered with tar. She's not a smoker. We know that.

Writing and Performing a Comedy Set

John Dehlin [00:11:05] How do you prepare a routine to be able to go on for 45 minutes or an hour? How much of that is spontaneous versus totally prepared? Do you have like a teleprompter like on your wise guys kit? Did you have a teleprompter? Talk a little bit about the preparation and the delivery and the refinement a bit.

Bengt Washburn [00:11:26] Sure. How do you prepare? Well, I'm always thinking of these ideas that I think anything. I'll see something and I'll say, oh, that's funny. And I'll start writing it and I'll probably do it on the computer a little in notebooks. And then I'll end up with what I call a wish list of things I want to talk about on stage. Because I want to explore this idea live. I do most of my writing, my finalizing on stage live.

Bengt Washburn [00:11:55] I start out with some basic ideas and what I think the main core of the joke is. I do have that, but I'll just have this wish list of jokes. Then over here I'll have the material that I've gone through this process, this writing process that I know works, you know that I know. This material will introduce the audience to me. It'll let them kind of know where I'm coming from so I can have a character or point of view that's presenting the material that's talking. And so I'll have that set material. And then what I'll usually do is I'll sometimes I'll even where I don't even know where I'm going to start.

Bengt Washburn [00:12:30] The moment I hit Stage. But usually I'll kind of. Well, let's. I'll decide about two or three minutes before I go up after I've had some time to watch the crowd and see what they're like and think about what I really want to do. I'll. I'll dive in and I'll start usually with something I know you know will work.

Bengt Washburn [00:12:50] Unless I'm really comfortable in Utah. Often I will start right off from my wish list. New ideas, thoughts, material that I've just wanted to work on. And then I will let, as those ideas grow, I will let them suggest to me the next topic that I will go to. And it'll either be a topic on my wish list or something I've already prepared that I know works. And so I just try to do that. I try to let the show tumble out organically, but it still is. It's been very often, if you see a bit, there's a good chance if it's one of these older bits, which about.

Bengt Washburn [00:13:30] I would say every time I do a show. Well, lately I've been doing a lot of new. But usually when I do a show, a 45 minute show, about a half hour will be tried and true material that'll be written over and over and over. I mean moving tiny little words and just pauses and really, really rehearsed. And

Bengt Washburn [00:13:54] this one I really knew is different. The first time we went Mary canoeing, that's when I found out it was a different animal. We went married canoeing with my sister in law and her fiance. Do you see the problem? They're in an engaged canoe. There's oxytocin in her head and they're all. They're dumb. And the Love Boat, that's what they're in, the Love Boat. We're in the Titanic. They're in the Love Boat. He's in the back steering like you do, right? She's up in front spotting for rocks. Right, left, honey. All right, my little navigator bunny. They hit a rock. My fault. No, that was my fault. You're no longer just gross. It was sick. It was gross. Every time they hit a rock, they

Bengt Washburn [00:14:42] made out just fish were puking.

Bengt Washburn [00:14:44] That's how gross it was. Meanwhile, in the Mary canoe, like laughed, laughed, laughed, laughed. My God, you're retarded. You did it, moron. Well, try your other left. You damn mouth clown with your. Then we get the canoe in the water. Mary canoeing with just two hours of staring at the back of her nagging skull. And down at my paddle and then

Bengt Washburn [00:15:24] back at her skull.

Bengt Washburn [00:15:28] You should have worn your helmet. When the Mary canoe hits a rock, you're gonna kill us both. Well, you got it half right. It was an accident, officer. The canoe flipped over, she hit her head on a rock 17 times.

Bengt Washburn [00:15:51] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:15:55] So in marriage you understand, don't you? Don't you? You understand the impulse to kill because you both feel it several times a day. If it's a good marriage. But. But you don't kill. You do not kill your spouse.

Bengt Washburn [00:16:12] And this is love.

Bengt Washburn [00:16:15] This is married love. That you don't kill your spouse means you love him. That's all the proof you need. You still love me, baby. You woke up, didn't you? You just took a half hour nap face up next to a pillow.

John Dehlin [00:16:36] How do you. Do you have a prompter, a teleprompter, a little list at the bottom of your feet? Like how do you remember to go from joke to joke to joke to joke to joke?

Bengt Washburn [00:16:44] I don't. No teleprompter, no list. Some comics do kind of joke, joke, joke, you know. But if you watch the way I do things, it's more ideas, you know. So if I just follow the idea through, it kind of pulls me through. It reminds me it's, you know, what I said just then is the perfect reminder for what I'm going to say next. And the bit pulls me through and then at the end of that bit it'll usually pull me into another idea. And then every once in a while I'll hit a dead end. Like what was I talking about? And, and I just. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:17:21] What do you do then? What do you do when you either blank.

Bengt Washburn [00:17:23] I tell the author, I just say, ah, okay. I'm not, I'm not sure where I was going to go now. I mean I'll just be.

John Dehlin [00:17:32] But then how do you come up with something?

Bengt Washburn [00:17:35] I'll just. Sometimes there's just some tried or true or I've written. I would say I've probably written and performed six or seven hours of stand up comedy material. I would say. And so there is something in the room or something. I said if I just relax and give my mind, I will grab onto something really soon.

John Dehlin [00:17:56] So. So do you have most of those seven hours right now on command?

Bengt Washburn [00:18:00] No, I would say I probably only have about two, two and a half hours and even then I would start to. Now did I already say that? You know, the longest show I've done is an hour and a half. Maybe hour 40. I might have done. I did an hour 45 once. That's horrible. I would never.

John Dehlin [00:18:18] That's really long.

Bengt Washburn [00:18:19] Horrible.

John Dehlin [00:18:20] So if I threw out a bit, you could do it? If, like, if it's something you did over the weekend, you could do it.

Bengt Washburn [00:18:24] Yeah, if it's one of those, it's kind of. I could do it now. This weekend I did lots of new material. So now a lot of that stuff this weekend. Luckily it's taped so I can go over it and tell myself what I want to keep and what I don't want to keep. And this weekend some of that will never happen again. It's just stuff that kind of happened in the moment and we went off on a tangent and there it was and it'll never happen again.

John Dehlin [00:18:48] So you write. You write sometimes spontaneously.

Bengt Washburn [00:18:50] Oh yeah, a lot. And a lot of comics don't work that way. That's just the way I work. Some comics, it's word for word, set up, punch. You go see their show once, you go back to see it a year later even, and you're like, well, this is exactly the same. And that's not the way I am at all.

John Dehlin [00:19:07] Right, Right, Yeah. So talk about. I mean, I guess there are a couple things we could talk about. We could dig more into your feelings and thoughts about the church, your loss of faith, how your faith and spirituality have progressed over the years. We could talk about your marriage and what that's been like being married to a non member. And I would say as far as

Evolving Faith and Thoughts on Mormonism

Bengt Washburn [00:19:35] the loss of faith, it's been because I would say it's just reduction of faith. You know what I mean? I still have faith, but it's just, it's not as detailed, you know what I mean? Or big. And it's faith. Now what I do have is just maybe it's just belief.

Bengt Washburn [00:19:55] One thing I do know is I don't have knowledge. You know, I remember when I was young and in Mormonism that fight to know, you know, I know this is true. I know this. It was like you were trying to deny doubt. And I've since decided that that's not healthy. I think faith starts when you embrace doubt. The first thing, the very first thing you have to do is be fearless and honest for true faith to happen. And you have to embrace your doubt and say, okay, I don't know, that's the truth of it. And then you build from there. You say, but I want to.

Bengt Washburn [00:20:28] It's just like in Alma. I think that's a beautiful description of how to have healthy faith. And the first, you must be honest about your doubt. And I Spent so many years just pushing that doubt down. Having doubt was a sign of weakness. And you. Something wrong. You didn't do that. You didn't say doubt. You didn't stand up a testimony to me and say, I, I think this is true, but I'm not sure no one would ever say that. I think more people should.

Bengt Washburn [00:20:57] When you don't do that, I think you end up with this guy. What was that guy? Haggerty, Ted Haggerty. That's a guy who can compartmentalize because from the beginning he's lied to himself. He took the doubt. I don't doubt. No, I know this is true. Well, that's a lie. And that's when you can compartmentalize that. I think that's how you say homosexuals are evil and then drive to Denver that weekend and have a tryst with your gay prostitute. You know, because you can come. It's all a lie.

Bengt Washburn [00:21:26] So I think it's healthy to embrace your doubt, take the belief, live on your belief until it grows into faith. And I wish people would never say, I know, because that confuses things. You don't really know. It's not knowledge, it's faith. It's faith.

John Dehlin [00:21:42] So are there more many things you have faith in?

Bengt Washburn [00:21:45] Yeah, I guess there are some Mormonish, Mormony things.

John Dehlin [00:21:49] Like what?

Bengt Washburn [00:21:51] I kind of think some of the ideas, like Adam Fell, that men might be men are. That they might have joy. That's beautiful. I think that's true. I think that is why God created us, is to have joy. I think God created us. I have no idea how. I don't know how. I don't know. I also believe in evolution completely, so I don't know how.

John Dehlin [00:22:17] But you do believe in a God.

Bengt Washburn [00:22:19] And I don't know why. And I don't know. I really don't know why. The only thing I know is that I believe in a God. That's the only thing I know, is that I believe in God.

John Dehlin [00:22:30] And what about Jesus?

Bengt Washburn [00:22:34] That's a different thing. I mean, I. When you look at what he said and wrote, I believe in that. I see the, you know, in a very general way. But as far as the atonement, you know, I'm not sure anymore is this.

Bengt Washburn [00:22:51] It's just a really powerful myth that helps us, that buoys us up and gets us through life. To me, it's not important to know if these stories are literally true. It's not. I have this belief that religion is God's attempt to communicate with the profoundly retarded. I really Think that's what God's just. He's just. We're really dumb and he's trying to talk to us. And I think too many people take the religion and they start getting very literal with all those things in there when that's really not what they're about.

Bengt Washburn [00:23:21] I'm kind of a fan of Joseph Campbell and his take on religion. Big, big fan. And I still believe in a God. Well, people, I was reading this book, like How We Believe by Michael Shearer, the skeptic guy. And I liked a lot of the information in there. And I guess I came to this belief that people would tell me, well, Ben, if you believe that religion is just this kind of biological thing that pumps up with people, you know, flows up out of the subconscious, well, then God didn't create it. And how could there be a God? And I guess I would say I don't think God created religion.

Bengt Washburn [00:24:06] I think God definitely made man to create religion. We're supposed to create religions. God meant that. He wants us to do that. That's part of who we are and what we do. So God created us to make religion. But do I think God made the religion? No, no, I think that. And I don't think it's necessarily a social construct either. I don't think. Men. Sit down. Ha ha. I'm going to jerk people around with this one. I think it's much more organic than that and much bigger than that. We're born into these myths. They're here before we get here.

John Dehlin [00:24:39] Speaking of that, what are your thoughts on Joseph Smith?

Bengt Washburn [00:24:42] I think he's probably crazy. You know, I mean, I've read what he said. It's insane. But I've also read the Book of Mormon. It's beautiful, man, these myths. These are fantastic. These are great. It's this crazy mixture of the Eastern and Christianity. It's just great.

Bengt Washburn [00:25:00] Second Nephi, that stuff is beautiful to me still to this day. I love that. I love it. And that he came up with this and was that inspired of God? Yeah, I think it was. Absolutely. In spite of all the weird, crazy stuff. And then more importantly, that I have so many family members for whom this is. And friends for whom Mormonism is such a powerful good thing for them. I mean, they build their life and their family on it now, for me, it was isolating. I felt so different and weird, you know what I mean, when I go to church? But for them, it's this beautiful, wonderful.

Bengt Washburn [00:25:36] It's faith, too. It's healthy. It's faith for them. And I would never ask them to dump that because Joseph Smith was a freak. Why would you do that? I've told people many times. Let's say you found out the inventor of the wheel was just a total creep. Would you stop driving cars?

Bengt Washburn [00:25:58] No, you wouldn't. It works for you. Your whole life is built on that. So I don't understand that, especially coming from Christians where I'm like, would you know what Constantine did? He formed your faith. What did he do? If I'm not mistaken, he boiled his mother in law in oil. Is that wrong? Am I wrong about that one? So it's like, okay, let me see. We gotta pare down the Bible and then I gotta boil Mom. You know?

Bengt Washburn [00:26:23] Come on.

Bengt Washburn [00:26:25] There's a. I don't know if that's true, though. I just. That might be a, you know, urban legend I've heard.

John Dehlin [00:26:33] So you're definitely not anti church?

Bengt Washburn [00:26:36] No. No, I am not. And I'm tired of that. It's tough, because I believe Mormonism needs a place like a comedy club. Mormonism desperately needs a place where people can go in and be honest and embrace their doubt and tell the truth. Because right now people lie to themselves way too much and it's not healthy. It's a very unhealthy thing, but it needs a comedy club. But when I go into the comedy club and talk like I do, and I know sometimes it's gratuitous and I may be dirty just to get a laugh, I get that. But I will. Often I'll have Mormons start thinking, well, you're a bad example and you're evil and you're wrong and you hate Mormons.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:16] You're anti Mormon. And try. I'm really not. I'm not. And then on the other hand, anti Mormons will hear me and they'll say, oh, you're one of us, Joseph's man. No, I'm not one of you. I'm really not. I'm not. I don't want to change it. You know, Mormon doesn't fit me, but Mormonism doesn't fit me. I know that, but I'm kind of a freak.

Bengt Washburn [00:27:37] Literally. I mean, there's that personality test thing. What is that, Myers Briggs? Yeah. And it was developed by a guy who wrote a book called Please Understand Me or something. What was that guy's name? I had a friend, one of my best friends from college took me through that book and we did my test. I'm like a 1% of the population. I'm a weird guy. I know that. Why Would I want Mormonism change to fit me? I'm a freak. They would screw it up.

Bengt Washburn [00:28:05] It needs to be what it is, you know? Well, we were doing it that way, but we found we were losing the comics. You can lose the comics anyway.

John Dehlin [00:28:17] So do you still go to church?

Bengt Washburn [00:28:18] No, no, no. I haven't been to church for about. Geez, how old am I? 45, so about 18 years I went.

John Dehlin [00:28:30] Do you miss it? Do you miss it?

Bengt Washburn [00:28:31] Oh, yeah, yeah, but it can't. I don't. I don't know if I miss it. I miss where I was when I used to go to church, you know?

John Dehlin [00:28:39] Do you wish you could go back to the true believing state?

Bengt Washburn [00:28:44] It depends. On what? What I would have to sacrifice. Can I not get up and speak my mind? Because if I can't, I can't do that. I cannot. And as it is now, I certainly know I couldn't, you know. You know, do that. And more importantly, if you're not in that state and you go to church, I don't think you can do that for long. You know what I mean? Something has to. Maybe you can. I worry about it. I've got a son now, so I worry about that. Like, oh, I had this wonderful culture and religion. I did, and now I'm not giving this to him. And I worry very much about that because. Yeah, what are you gonna do?

John Dehlin [00:29:35] Raise him as a heathen?

Bengt Washburn [00:29:36] Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if I. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know.

John Dehlin [00:29:41] How old is he?

Bengt Washburn [00:29:42] He's four and a half. It's almost. It's gotta get done fast. I gotta. Won't have much time to program him. I gotta get this done.

John Dehlin [00:29:50] Does your wife. Does your wife have a religious tradition?

Bengt Washburn [00:29:53] She grew up Catholic, kind of, but she's not a devout Catholic, you know, so we've talked about it, you know, and then we don't know how to handle that. Like, if I go to church and she doesn't want to go to the Mormon Church, she doesn't believe these things, and how will she feel? And she doesn't necessarily believe Catholic Church either, so she doesn't want to go there because she feels like a poser and a fake, so.

John Dehlin [00:30:23] Sounds like Unitarian for you guys.

Bengt Washburn [00:30:25] Sounds like what unit? Unitarian. Oh, no, I used to have a joke about Unitarians. It was. I was talking about the streets. Every time I do shows in Minneapolis for about. Well, not every time, but the first couple times they have horrible streets. I don't know if you've been there, they're mixed up. Minneapolis, they're all over. And I say, I'm from Utah, where the streets are Mormon. Very north, south, east, west, there's a grid, it's numbered, says your streets are all loosey goosey, saved by Grace Lutheran crap all over the place in one way, this and that way. And I say St. Paul, that's downright Unitarian. That crap, anything goes. I don't know. Unitarian, I don't know.

John Dehlin [00:31:09] So are you. What do you miss or do you miss anything about being a believer? And is it sad, like, is it truly sad to consider raising a son without a faith tradition?

Bengt Washburn [00:31:24] I think it is sad. I miss the connection, but I guess I always associated it, you know, with other people. But then when that connection proved to be, I felt false. You know what I mean? It wasn't a true connection I have with these people. I mean, it really got down to it. They're still just people, you know, so some of that felt like lip service to me anyway. But I still do miss the connections that you had with sense of true.

John Dehlin [00:31:59] Do true connections exist? Do true connections exist with people? Yeah. Do you feel like you've been able to achieve authentic connections, unlike maybe some of the more superficial ones that you had with church?

Bengt Washburn [00:32:15] Oh, good point.

Bengt Washburn [00:32:17] Oh, yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:32:18] Yes. But I've also. I also had some very good connections in church, you know, some that were not superficial. There were those real connections and those are what I miss. But there weren't as many of them, frankly, as there are. Do you see what I'm saying? They were rare. They didn't happen for me a lot in the Mormon culture and community.

John Dehlin [00:32:38] It's more common now.

Bengt Washburn [00:32:40] It's more common for the connections to be there.

John Dehlin [00:32:43] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:32:44] So I could go to church and there might be more freaks like me, like artists. And that might be true because that's been a long time since I was there. I do think it's sad to raise a son without it. I think we're meant to have it. It's not natural to walk without that. It is natural to have those things in place. I mean, why would they occur all over the globe consistently if they weren't naturally occurring?

John Dehlin [00:33:22] Yeah. For the history of mankind.

Bengt Washburn [00:33:25] Yeah. Nick, get a bad rap.

John Dehlin [00:33:28] So you talked a bit about swearing. Like, what goes into that? Is it a decision? Is it just you're around people who swear so you end up swearing in your bits? Or do you sort of say this is what you have to do to be funny? Is it just a cheap way to get laughs, is it? No, I want to be real or I want to make a point. What goes into that decision to. To swear to the extent that you do?

Bengt Washburn [00:33:56] I think a lot of it was I started swearing and I wanted to be authentic. I really, I swear a lot now. It's horrible. It's a bad habit, but I swear a lot. And so then it starts leaking into the show. It really does.

Bengt Washburn [00:34:12] Sometimes I want to swear because I want to be very clear about who I am and honest with him. When I do comedy, it really, it's not. I really, I. It's a vulnerable show that I do. I'm vulnerable, I open up and I am who I am and.

Bengt Washburn [00:34:32] And would almost feel like I was holding back somewhat there also. It's. They're just words and comedy. For comedy to happen, there are times when you need to go from point A to point Z. And the only word that can take you there, that can take that trip is that swear word. There's no other word that can. That can do that, do it for you. And then on top of that, there's the emotion that goes into place. I mean, oftentimes that you need to communicate, that needs to go into place, that can only be put there with the swear word. Especially if I want to be true to a specific character I'm talking about.

Bengt Washburn [00:35:11] So I go into a specific character and I'm talking about this redneck. It makes no sense for that redneck character to say, darn, that's not how he gets angry. That's not what comes out of his mouth. And also, I think a lot of the emotions in the bit when the emotion starts to boil, for me, that's the word that expresses it. And I think for most of the audience, that's the right word to say. And so it almost feels wrong for me to like, well, I'm not going to say this word because there's four people over here who don't want to hear that word. I know 96 of you think that's the right word and I do too. But I would hate for them to hear that slang word for sex. That would just be awful.

John Dehlin [00:35:59] Do you think there's something healthy about people getting over offense at dirty words?

Bengt Washburn [00:36:06] Yeah, that's a good question because I. I also think there's a point. I've been to comedy shows where I'm like, my word, this is constant. You know, it's just a barrage. But yeah, I don't think it should shock people the way it does sometimes. I don't Know, it's. Yeah, we're in the real world. We're not a church. This is. And this is a room. It's a comedy club. This is especially not. This is a place where the religion is. Say what you're really thinking and feeling honestly, like.

John Dehlin [00:36:46] And if you heard your son swearing, would that disappoint you?

Bengt Washburn [00:36:50] I already have.

John Dehlin [00:36:53] At 4. At age 4.

Bengt Washburn [00:36:54] At 4. I blame his mom. She's in the Air Force, so.

John Dehlin [00:37:00] So your wife might. Might let one out occasionally, too.

Bengt Washburn [00:37:03] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I already have heard him. He hasn't done some of the. Well, yeah, he's done a couple big ones. But you know what? He shows a lot of restraint with swear words. He doesn't really use him to suppress his anger. He, like, gets really red in the face and screams that kind of stuff.

John Dehlin [00:37:24] So does your extended family, your parents, your siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins come to see your show and when they hear you swear or your bits about Mormonism, is that an issue?

Bengt Washburn [00:37:37] They're really nice about it. Normally when they see me, they've seen me in Utah. And in Utah, the club has rules about language. They cater to the local culture and say that word, specifically the F word. Well, and the C word. Those two words can't be said. You can say any other word at the club in Salt Lake, quite a bit. And they probably aren't me. They're not going to say anything. I'm headlining those shows and they're. They're fine with it. So usually my family doesn't see me. They have seen me out of state and so they've heard me drop the occasional F bomb where I thought it worked with a joke. And I have a couple jokes where it absolutely has to be there. And they haven't said anything. They've been very nice about my family. They understand.

Family Support, Life in Germany, and Daily Routine

John Dehlin [00:38:28] Overall, have you felt well supported by family?

Bengt Washburn [00:38:31] Totally, Completely. Yep. They really support me and they're really nice. And I mean, I'm not saying they're like, yeah, we agree with everything Ben says and does. It's just that they don't. They certainly don't hate me for being who I am. And we. I see them all the time, every time I come home. I spend my time with my family, visiting and seeing the nest. They let me play with the nephews and nieces unaccompanied. We'll sit in the room together and they'll let me talk with them and. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:39:07] So what's it. Do you have a day job?

Bengt Washburn [00:39:09] Oh, day job.

John Dehlin [00:39:12] Or are you. How do you be a comic and a dad and a husband in Germany.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:17] Val. Now, since we went to Germany, I

Bengt Washburn [00:39:20] live in Germany now I do live in Germany. And man, there are things I miss about our country when I'm over there. You know what I miss and I really enjoy when I'm here? I miss. When I'm in Germany. I miss this about America not having to pay attention when you drive.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:36] I love that about our country. You can just. Your mind can wander and shit. Because we have really wide streets with shoulders. They don't have shoulders a lot over there. We have like. It's weird. We, like, ended the road and then people crash. We're like, shit, what happened? They went off the road. Well, let's give them some Angstrom Road. And then. And then people crashed again.

Bengt Washburn [00:39:57] Shit. He went off the road after we gave him the answer. We'll make it wider, give him an emergency lane and then make a shoulder, you know, and we kept going until pretty soon we just got these.

Bengt Washburn [00:40:06] Our roads are ridiculous.

Bengt Washburn [00:40:09] It's crazy. We even have the rumble strips. They don't have this in Europe. You have these rumble strips, you know, where the asphalt is grooved so it wakes you up

Bengt Washburn [00:40:21] in case you take

Bengt Washburn [00:40:21] a nap, because you might. Because it's really relaxing. Isn't that crazy that I rolled? Excuse me. You're driving and then we have another whole lane to get our shit together. That's crazy.

Bengt Washburn [00:40:35] Just.

Bengt Washburn [00:40:38] Oh, shit, I'm driving. Oh, that's right. And Germany's not like that. When you go to. You go to Germany, the road ends. Where the road ends, it'll be asphalt. The Autobahn has a little shoulder emergency area. But most highways, it's like two lanes. You go like 80 miles an hour, like, with just like a. It's. And it's just the road in. It'll be asphalt. Then they'll have a white line. And then. And then they'll have like two or three inches of shoulder, just in case. And then death. And Germans are okay with that. They don't mind if people are dying. They're cool. I mean, they're not killing people intentionally now.

Bengt Washburn [00:41:19] They quit doing that. They used to.

Bengt Washburn [00:41:28] My German neighbors cannot even understand the concept of an emergency lane. They couldn't understand. I told them. I told them. I said, no, it's an extra lane for emergencies.

Guest [00:41:44] Just.

Bengt Washburn [00:41:44] It's road. It's. No, it's an emergency lane, but there is no emergency till you go off the road. Then you have this emergency and there's the rumble strip. They were like, totally I said, yeah, it's notched asphalt. It'll wake you up when you drive. You sleep while you're driving. This is not a good idea.

Bengt Washburn [00:42:05] This is not efficient. I told them, yours are dangerous. People could die. And they just. Well, perhaps it's best for you to pay attention while you're driving. But us, we should worry about it. No, make the road wider. We don't want to lose the dipshits.

Bengt Washburn [00:42:24] That would be horrible. The dipshits died. That'd be horrible. What would we do without dipshits? It's a different country. It's been German. Have you tried speaking German? Difficult. I thought I would learn German. I thought I could. I thought, I will be immersed in people speaking German, but I have not. Since going to Germany, I have not been immersed in people speaking German. I've been immersed in people speaking English with a German accent.

Bengt Washburn [00:43:09] As a result, I've made no progress at speaking German, but I've made great progress at speaking English with a German accent. It's great. A few more months, I will be fluent with my accent, and I come home to America and I'll use my accent. How are you doing today?

Bengt Washburn [00:43:29] And people will say, wow, your English is excellent. And I'll say, this is the first time I'm hearing this. Thank you. I never heard this before. And they'll say, well, that's because English isn't your native language. And I'll say, no, this is because I am from Utah.

John Dehlin [00:43:58] How do you. How do you be a comic and a dad and a husband in Germany now?

Bengt Washburn [00:44:03] Now, since we went to Germany, I'm not. I mean, still doing comedy, but, you know, and that was something. When my wife and I decided to have my son, she's like, well, you're going to have to cut back. Because I was going on the road 40 weeks a year, 45 weeks a year.

John Dehlin [00:44:19] Married.

Bengt Washburn [00:44:20] Well, yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, you can't be married for long doing that. But our first year of marriage, she was in Korea. She was Air Force. She went to Korea. And so I would go over. Be with her in Korea for about three weeks, then I'd come home and live on the road and then go to Korea and then come home and live on the road. Did that for a year, and then we came home, and for about two years, I cut the work back to about 30 weeks a year, and then the rest of the time I was home.

Bengt Washburn [00:44:49] And when you're gone for that, sometimes you're not gone the whole week either. You know what I Mean, I'm gone Wednesday through Saturday, but I'm home on Sunday night and Monday and Tuesday, and they leave again. Lots of people do that, but it just started to get to be too much. And so after the sun was born, then I cut it way back for about nine months. I didn't go anywhere, and then I built it back up, and then we moved to Germany. And 10 weeks a year, that's all the club appearances I do now.

John Dehlin [00:45:21] Is that hard to cut it back? Do you feel like you're.

Bengt Washburn [00:45:24] It does, yeah. It drives me nuts. I'm writing now.

John Dehlin [00:45:27] What are you doing?

Bengt Washburn [00:45:27] I'm writing lots of blog essay things. Essays more than blogs.

John Dehlin [00:45:33] So what do you do in Germany when you're. You know, when you can't be a comic?

Bengt Washburn [00:45:37] I watch my son. I take intensive German courses and I write. I write down all the funny things I'm thinking about. In fact, since I've been there, even though I only had 10 weeks last year, I've got another whole new CD, another 45 minutes of material about what it's like to be an American moving to Germany and what this experience has revealed to me about American culture.

John Dehlin [00:46:02] Bengt. I have one word for you.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:04] What is it?

John Dehlin [00:46:05] Podcast.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:06] Podcast. Oh, that's what I should do.

John Dehlin [00:46:09] Start a podcast.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:10] I don't know how to do this. It's computers, cameras.

John Dehlin [00:46:14] I'll teach you, brother. I'll teach you. Okay, we'll talk about that later.

Bengt Washburn [00:46:16] I should. Yeah. Something to do.

John Dehlin [00:46:19] Have you ever. Have you ever met any famous comedians?

Bengt Washburn [00:46:23] Yeah. Robin Williams. I met him last year. I was headlining a show in Mill Valley. It's a theater just north of San Francisco, and he happens to live right nearby, and he drops into this Throckmorton theater every once in a while and go to the green room. There he is. It was really cool. I was with my daughter. She got to meet him, and he joked around with my daughter, and then we hung out, him and I and all the other comics, and just there was that camaraderie that you have with comics. And he headlined the show instead of me. Yeah, we decided he would headline. He was very funny and very nice guy. Really sweet guy.

John Dehlin [00:47:02] Is he a little crazy?

Bengt Washburn [00:47:03] Oh, yeah, yeah.

John Dehlin [00:47:04] It's a little unstable.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:05] Yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:05] He snaps in and out of these characters while he's playing, and when. Even when he's talking to you, he'll do the character and back. And it's kind of like, you think

John Dehlin [00:47:14] he might be a little bit mentally

Bengt Washburn [00:47:16] ill, maybe, or broken in a great way. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:47:20] Are you like, you Maybe, yeah.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:22] Except I'm not that I'm more nor I'm a little broken, but not as long as I don't things work good until I start getting nervous and then I turn into like a really strange.

Word of Wisdom, Gay Marriage, and Leaving Orthodoxy

John Dehlin [00:47:38] Talk a bit about the word of wisdom and your observance or non observance.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:44] Yeah, I drink lots of coffee. I love coffee.

Bengt Washburn [00:47:50] There's just a lot of rules. We grow up Mormon, you know, there's no drinking, there's no smoking, no premarital sex. No coffee, which seems like a weird rule. No coffee. Logical. You can't drink, you can't smoke, you can't have sex.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:02] Why stay awake?

Bengt Washburn [00:48:11] No coffee does strike me as a weird rule now. When I was little, it didn't seem weird because everybody thought coffee was evil. You know what I mean? Everybody in Mapleton, Utah thought so. It wasn't weird, right? That's the way it is when the whole town's doing something weird.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:27] It's not weird, it's normal.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:28] One person doing something weird, yeah, that's a nut. But a group of people doing something weird, that's a church. It is not in a bad way. It's just true. You just don't know it's weird because it's your weird shit.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:40] Like.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:40] Like the Pope's hat is really weird. It's a weird hat. It looks cool in the Vatican. Wear it on the subway,

Bengt Washburn [00:48:49] Go to

Bengt Washburn [00:48:50] a grizzly game with the pope hat on, see what happens.

Bengt Washburn [00:48:52] It's weird. The first time I really tried coffee, I was with my friend from college. And he was my best friend. He's wonderful guy. And he was drinking some coffee and he was trying to get me to drink it. He was like, come on, have some coffee, drink it. And he was, he was. He grew up Mormon. He's not. He's actually. He's gay. So that was. Talk about a tough road. But so he.

Bengt Washburn [00:49:23] Drink it, drink it. And then I tasted it. Just. I don't care. I don't. And it was good. And then I started drinking more and more of it. I. I don't know. That was. What year was that? That was a long time ago. I haven't stopped since. I loved it right from the get go. It was really good. But I dumped lots of cream and sugar in it, so that probably has something to do with it. And I used it to stay awake on my long drives. Coffee. But yeah, I was talking.

John Dehlin [00:49:54] You're giving us another reason to hate the gays.

Bengt Washburn [00:49:57] They're going to make us drink coffee into gay coffee. I'm into coffee. Not gay coffee. I don't know what gay coffee is. Gay coffee would be all that vanilla flavored crap. That's gay coffee. I guess he taught me into coffee. I guess so. Still a Mormon, this one.

Bengt Washburn [00:50:13] I learned I was kind of Mormonish. Still near death experience. Almost died.

Bengt Washburn [00:50:17] Earthquake.

Bengt Washburn [00:50:18] Now, I've. I've survived many earthquakes in my world travels. Big one in India. 20,000 people died. I survived because I was standing in a doorway in Seattle. And that's the key to survival, is distance from the epicenter or disaster. But this earthquake, I was at the epicenter. Olympia, Washington, in a coffee shop, not making it up, having my coffee. All of a sudden, everything's shaken, bouncing off the shelves. I'm thinking, wow, this coffee works. I need to cut back on this. Now, the rule of the earthquake, stand in the doorway. Do I do that?

Guest [00:51:00] No.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:00] I run through the door, out into the street so I can take a

Bengt Washburn [00:51:03] brick in the head.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:05] Why? Because I grew up Mormon.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:07] Right.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:08] I cannot die in a coffee shop.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:12] Other things. Yeah, I might have a drink now and again, but I think there's good reason. Alcohol is against rules. I mean, I. It.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:23] I do.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:23] I don't know how you can not think it's a bad idea when you're a comic. I mean, rooms full of these people just.

John Dehlin [00:51:32] It ruins people.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:32] Yeah, I'm saying rooms. I'm dealing with rooms full of drunk. I see it, but that nothing makes you want to have drink more than hanging out with drunk people. It's just, oh, anything. This is horrible. When you're sober and everybody else is drunk. It's horrible, but makes you want to

John Dehlin [00:51:49] drink less or more.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:50] More.

Bengt Washburn [00:51:50] Because you just don't. You're like, I either have to leave or I have to be very mentally out of it because this is horrible. Drunk people. Drunk people are horrible.

John Dehlin [00:52:01] Right?

Bengt Washburn [00:52:02] But here's My wife's Irish Catholic, so she definitely. She drank from, you know, a kid she got caught in. I think it was a sophomore in high school with a rum and coke in her high school English class. In class.

John Dehlin [00:52:17] Holy moly.

Bengt Washburn [00:52:18] Holy moly.

Bengt Washburn [00:52:19] Then she lied and told her mom, well, I found it outside. And her mom believed it. It's unbelievable. So funny.

John Dehlin [00:52:25] Does she like your comedy?

Bengt Washburn [00:52:27] Yeah, yeah, she's sick of it sometimes. She saw it again for the first time in Germany. I did a show recently. She likes it. Yeah, she'll laugh. Story. Even the stories about her, she'll laugh. And I got tons of them.

John Dehlin [00:52:39] Are you always on, like when you're home Are you always being funny or do you try and turn that off? Or are you really serious and brooding when you're not?

Bengt Washburn [00:52:47] I get really. I just close down and get all quiet and that kind of stuff. Most comics aren't like extroverts like Robin Williams is. That's it. Most comics I know aren't like that. They're more introverted and. But I am always writing jokes and thinking of funny things, and it. It bugs her. It's like, quit it. So I try to turn it off. I can't. I can't help it.

John Dehlin [00:53:15] Do you. Do you think God has a sense of humor?

Bengt Washburn [00:53:18] Absolutely. Oh, yeah. It's got to. I mean. Yeah. I mean, this thing's hilarious. I think God has an incredibly dark sense of humor. That's what I think. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:53:33] What are your views on homosexuality, on gay marriage and the church?

Bengt Washburn [00:53:37] I don't care if they get married. I just don't get that. I don't. What? I don't understand. I mean, I understand a lot of people's concerns, and there's some valid ones about it occurring and, you know, adoption laws and what about this? And I get all that. What I don't understand is the connection between gays get married and world goes to hell in a hand basket. That's why I don't.

Bengt Washburn [00:53:57] You know, I got on the plane once, this is right after Katrina. Sit by the woman, and I say, boy, this is some weather we're having. Let's cause this goddamn administration and they have all these SUVs and they won't clean up the air. And I'm like, holy shit, I just stepped in the political turd. I was trying to weather talk. An idiot here blamed a hurricane on an suv, which is asinine. You know, I just want to hit her.

Bengt Washburn [00:54:24] Think you're a moron.

Bengt Washburn [00:54:25] But then the far right comes in and tells me, why Katrina? Well, it's because of the homosexuals. Holy. That's even dumber. Isn't that amazing? Really? The homosexual? Yeah, the butt sex. Reap the whirlwind. Are you an idiot? It's amazing. So God hated gay people, so he sent a hurricane right into the Bible Belt. Some shitty aim. It's insane and sad too, because hurricane alley overlaps the Bible Belt. That means where they say that every time there's a hurricane, there's an angry redneck know. Look what the goddamn faggots did to my trailer. That recliner is ruined. Can't fix that with duct tape.

Bengt Washburn [00:55:19] Insane. I don't care.

Bengt Washburn [00:55:22] I don't Care if gays get married.

Bengt Washburn [00:55:23] I'm at.

Bengt Washburn [00:55:24] I know I'm in Utah. This could be a problem, but I just don't give a. I think we have bigger problems. You know what I mean? I don't get it. Seem to me it's all just about words anyway. Well, they can't get married. They live together. I know they can't get married. How about. What if we let them get married, spelled M, E, R, R. Then you could say under your breath, they're married with an E. You can just do that. You could do your little shit. How much you want to bet everything doesn't go to hell in a hand basket because the gay people say they're married?

John Dehlin [00:56:03] So we'll get you out of here on this. Talk a little bit about the importance of humor for life. Like your philosophy on why we need humor, what humor can do, what motivates you, why you do what you do, if you even feel analogous spiritual things when you're really rolling in a comedy routine, and why you would make the case for comedy within the church.

The Role of Comedy and Closing Reflections

Bengt Washburn [00:56:42] Yeah. What does it do? It deflates things. It makes us take things much less seriously. It certainly dissipates fear. I think comedy does. It's a comforter in a lot of ways. It dissipates and releases these fears and anxieties and tension. I think it brings people together. It sure can make you realize that you have this common ground that you didn't know you had. It can. I think it can expose things, too. You know, those. Comedy has done that for, like, satire, right? It's done that for. That's what satire has always been about. Like, there are those who want to keep it quiet and not talk about certain things or whatever. And those elephants, you know, that are in the living rooms, and comedy has traditionally pointed those out. And so satire. I think it does that. Boy, you got me on this one.

John Dehlin [00:57:58] No, you're doing great. This is great.

Bengt Washburn [00:58:01] Yeah. I think humor. Humor reveals the. Those ridiculous truths and sometimes the painful truths and the threatening truths. That's what it does. And if it does it well, it almost becomes irrefutable. It's really powerful in that sense that, well, everybody's laughing. And so he must have a point, because when I think when nobody laughs and you're doing these things, then probably there's a flaw there somewhere. I've usually found when something is really, really fair and true, it is often also funny, at least as a comedian, if it's fair and true. And I don't mean flippancy. That stuff's way overrated, where people just bark off the stuff that everybody agrees with anyway.

Bengt Washburn [00:58:53] You know what I mean? Like, boy, that Bush sure is stupid. Well, yeah, we already know that. And then they'll have a clever way of saying bush is stupid or Clinton's horny or. And that kind of stuff always bored me. But when people really present an idea or take an assumed truth and deconstruct it and expose the ridiculousness of this assumed truth, it's kind of that amazing thing that was sitting under your nose and, like, wow, I never saw that and looked at that. So I think humor can do that too.

John Dehlin [00:59:28] It's.

Bengt Washburn [00:59:28] It can expose the elephant, but it can also expose a mystery in the mundane. It can make you walk through kind of the world with some fresh eyes. I hope it does. That's what I want my shows to do. I want them to. I don't want it to be just an observational comic. I want to be. Make observations that kind of are expanding, maybe change the way you. Because that's what it did for me. That's why I'm bringing it up, is because I was looking at the world and suddenly I saw something. I'm like, wow, I had not thought of it. That. That's unusual. And I'm trying to share that experience, that discovery that made me laugh.

John Dehlin [01:00:10] So you're driven. Do you feel like you're driven by altruistic motives, then your comedy.

Bengt Washburn [01:00:15] No. Probably very selfish. And look at me. I'm cool. That's how it started. It honestly started. A need for attention. I was the fifth boy. You know what I mean? I needed attention desperately. And I mean, I was this fifth boy. My parents were really going for a girl. You know what I mean? They wanted a girl, like so many parents do in Utah, you'll see them, all those one gender. Oh, they're trying for the boy or the girl.

Bengt Washburn [01:00:43] And in fact, I know they did. And then I had a sister, and I really always felt kind of ignored. I don't know why. Probably not even true or what true. That's. A lot of kids probably needed more attention, but it evolved into something else. It really did. I'm obsessed with the process of sharing what I've seen. And maybe it's. I'm obsessed with that process because seeing it alone is lonely, but seeing it and then sharing it. Okay, I'm not crazy. You see that? Okay, we're. We're together now, you know? Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:01:28] That's good. Well, we got to get you out on. On something funny. So why don't you, why don't you, why don't you lay down your favorite bit?

Bengt Washburn [01:01:40] My favorite bit or the bit that

John Dehlin [01:01:42] you think is most appropriate, the most

Bengt Washburn [01:01:44] appropriate bit for this, for Mormon culture. This interview. I did one on the tape on that show. I think that's appropriate for this. But no, that's kind of a. That's not. This is gonna get bad like. No, eh, not that one. No, it couldn't. No. It should be a religion bit, it seems like to me. All right, I should talk about religion, but I don't think I should talk about circumcision. This seems too specific. You know what I mean? We should talk about something in general, religion in general. I don't know if it should be really doubt. I don't know if it should go into doubt or belief. You know what I mean? Usually the doubts.

John Dehlin [01:02:27] Let's end with belief.

Bengt Washburn [01:02:28] Belief. Something uplifting in belief. Well, this happens to me. I'll have people come to me. Well, let's just end this way. Here we go. You asked me if there's something I miss about being a true believer and this is what I really miss.

Bengt Washburn [01:02:48] I miss knowing everything. You know what I mean? You used to know everything. And when you're growing up Mormon, you know everything. You do, you know there's a pre existence, so that would be everything before time. And you know that. And then you know why you're here, you know, you know the here and now, you know and then where you go after you die, you literally know everything. And now I know nothing, you know literally nothing at all. I don't know the pre existence. I don't know where I am. I really don't. That we're somewhere up in the foothills.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:21] I'm gonna have to get directions home. I don't know where I am. I don't know where I'm going after I die. I don't know. I don't even know how this bit is gonna end. I have no idea. I don't know anymore.

Bengt Washburn [01:03:35] That's what I miss. And is there anything else funny there? But some people. This will happen too, that I did a bit on this, but I think it's. This will happen to me a lot where I'll get people up to me, come up to me. I think religion gets a bad rap is what I'm saying. I think religion is a good thing and it gets this bad rap. And I run into lots of comics, have an atheist comic friend even who's. We've talked about it a lot but I've heard this many times. Well, religions caused all the wars on the world, which is just hogwash if you look the last century.

Bengt Washburn [01:04:10] World War II, World War I, you know what I mean? Vietnam, Korea. I mean, Communist Russia killed a ton of people. They're not. And they were atheist. You know, Stalin was an atheist. He did that with no religion. So I'll get people that will blame their life on religion. I've had it many times. And Mormons will come up to me. Well, ex Mormons. Mormonism ruined my life. Many times. I've had that happen.

Bengt Washburn [01:04:38] I don't think religion's bad. I really don't. I'm often misunderstood on this. I mean, I myself am not a good Mormon, but it's good. It's a good thing. You know what I mean? I get tired. I get tired of getting approached by people who are angry. Like, I used to be a Mormon. The Mormon Church ruined my life. Don't do that way. It's okay. Especially if you're a white, straight male. I doubt Mormonism ruined your life.

Bengt Washburn [01:05:03] Have you ever had that?

Bengt Washburn [01:05:07] It's not that tough when you're a white, straight male jackass. You know how one of those guys come. I've had a guy go, mormonism ruined my life. And in my head I'm thinking, really? I would have pegged that on the method. I would have. I would blame methamphetamines for your bad life and your bad skin, too. I mean, seriously, were you still in car stereo so you could afford to pay tithing? No, I think you used the money on drugs, jackass. You know what I mean?

Bengt Washburn [01:05:40] I guess that's something funny.

Bengt Washburn [01:05:42] I don't know.

Bengt Washburn [01:05:43] They need more belief.

John Dehlin [01:05:44] That's good. Don't blame it on the. Don't blame it on the religion.

Bengt Washburn [01:05:47] Yeah, don't. Yeah, no. Don't blame it on religion. Religion doesn't make people crazy. People make religion crazy. You got to remember that.

John Dehlin [01:05:56] So words of wisdom from Ben was an idiot.

Bengt Washburn [01:06:03] All right, the website is www.getbent.com. that's G E T B E N G T. And I have a CD called Hellbent that has a lot of this religious kind of comedy material on it about growing up Mormon.

John Dehlin [01:06:19] How do you. How do you buy it? How do you buy it?

Bengt Washburn [01:06:21] You get on my website through PayPal. You can email me and I'll set something up. I have another CD with swearing on it called Bengt on Destruction that you might like, and a DVD called Mormon Meets World.

John Dehlin [01:06:34] That's a lot of Mormony material.

Bengt Washburn [01:06:35] A lot of Mormony, but then also some other. That's not Mormony. I did it back in 2002, so.

John Dehlin [01:06:42] And you can buy all these on your website.

Bengt Washburn [01:06:44] You can buy hellbent and Mormon meets world bent on destruction. I'm not yet offering, but I should. I'm just lazy.

John Dehlin [01:06:51] And a pod a soon to be released.

Bengt Washburn [01:06:54] You're right. From Germany.

John Dehlin [01:06:56] Okay, I have to ask you one last question. You hear about these missionaries who like go serve in Japan and then they become like celebrities in Japan because they speak. They speak Japanese and the Japanese people think it's so funny to have an American there speaking good Japanese. Why don't you go become this ultra famous American comic in Germany making fun of America.

Bengt Washburn [01:07:22] I am not smart enough to learn German or either. I don't know whether my mind's 45, it's 45 years old and it doesn't remember stuff, or my mind. I cannot convince my mind that it should learn things I think is part. You know how when you get older, I think my mind just says, you're not kidding us anymore. We don't need this. You're 45. You're gonna die soon. We don't need German. I'm having a heck of a time learning German. It's killing me.

John Dehlin [01:07:54] Well, Ben Washburn, thank you so much for coming on Mormon Stories podcast.

Bengt Washburn [01:07:57] Oh, you are welcome, John. My pleasure.

John Dehlin [01:08:00] Good luck in all your duty.

Bengt Washburn [01:08:01] Thank you. Good night.

John Dehlin [01:08:02] Stay funny.

Bengt Washburn [01:08:03] I'll try.

Guest [01:08:07] When I die and they lay me to rest Gonna go to the place that's best when they lay me down to die Going on up to the spirit in the sky Going on up to the spirit in the sky that's where I'm gonna go when I when I die and they let me to rest I'm gonna go to the place that's the.

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