Introduction to This Tribute Episode

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:00:01] Hello, and welcome to Mormon Stories. I'm Jay Nelson Seawright, and it's my privilege to introduce this special episode. One of the main lessons that John Dehlin teaches the people who work with him on Mormon Stories is that we are not the story. Our guests, our history, our faith, our community, those are the story. Our job is to get out of the way.

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:00:24] But John's work with Mormon Stories is. Is one of the major stories in our generation of Mormonism. As I record these words, the podcast has existed for a decade. It has covered dozens of topics, featured hundreds of guests, reached thousands upon thousands of listeners. The voices that John amplifies have changed minds, saved lives, and transformed hearts. Yet those voices, together with John's activism on behalf of LGBT and feminist Mormons, have become the grounds for a disciplinary council.

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:00:56] In a few weeks, John may be excommunicated. This will not mark the end of John's work or of Mormon Stories. John isn't a prophet, and Mormon Stories is a vocation, but not a priesthood calling. So we're lucky John doesn't need anybody's permission to share his work with us.

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:01:14] Even so, this is undeniably a moment of transition, pain and sorrow for all of us in the large, diverse community that loves Mormon Stories. And so it is the right moment to reflect on John's work. In this episode, a wide range of Mormon voices offer their reflections on what Mormon Stories has meant to them and to our people.

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:01:35] For my part, Mormon Stories has shaped my life in ways large and small. For so long, it has been a forum for me to share my faith, learn about the wisdom and knowledge of a truly diverse and amazing collection of other Mormons, ultimately practiced the perilous vocabulary of an openly secular Mormon. After I lost my faith, I lost my community, and I lost a deep and important part of myself.

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:02:00] John did more than anybody else to help me find a way forward. He helped me find my people again. And he gave me space to speak and learn a new, yet still authentic way of being Mormon. If John is an apostate, so be it. It's not my place to judge, but it is my place to say what I know.

Jay Nelson Seawright [00:02:20] I know him to be a loving friend, a talented caregiver, and the greatest interviewer in Mormon history. For the rest of this episode, we have the opportunity to hear what many other Mormons think, feel, and know about Mormon stories. Special thanks to Heather Olson Beale for her collaboration in making this episode possible.

Early Guests Reflect on Mormon Stories' Legacy

Margaret Blair Young [00:02:41] This is Margaret Blair Young, Darius Gray and I were among the first interview subjects that John Dehlin did for his podcast over a decade ago. We're proud of the program we did with John. It's one that got a lot of traction, was eventually used in a video compilation called Blacks in the Scriptures.

Margaret Blair Young [00:03:05] Over the years, I've particularly enjoyed interviews with Mormons who are like me, who are orthodox faithful, who also understand some of the difficult questions. It's important for us to be able to talk compassionately with those who are facing the questions for the first time. I've particularly enjoyed John's interviews with Terrell and Fiona Givens. I've recommended Richard Bushman's interview in which he talks about being a patriarch. In fact, when I've had students decide to read Rest on Rolling as part of their LDS literature class, I've said, I want you to also listen to Richard talking about about being a patriarch and have given them the link.

Margaret Blair Young [00:03:51] I know that there will be many podcasts that continue. I'm grateful that we were able to record what we did and that good things have happened because of that recording.

Bent Washburn [00:04:03] Hello, this is Bent Washburn. And just so you know who I am, it's Bent Washburn. I think that the part of going through, I guess they call it a faith crisis. I hadn't even heard the term until I met John Dalen and was on his podcast Mormon Stories.

Bent Washburn [00:04:23] I didn't even understand what any of that was, even though I had gone through that. I think most people go through that today. Actually, it's normal to go through a faith crisis in our day and age. And I think the main symptom or the main, the main cause of suffering in a faith crisis is isolation. You just feel you're alone. And if you can eliminate the isolation, it's no longer a faith crisis. It's just a change. I mean, all change is crisis.

Bent Washburn [00:04:54] And I guess, anyway, I guess what I'm saying is Mormon Stories, I think John Dalen will always be remembered as a person who not only saw, well, this is a problem that people have and the solution is not feeling isolated. And social media is the solution for that. That's the medicine the problem needs.

Bent Washburn [00:05:15] And I know when I was first on Mormon Stories podcast, that's when I remember being on there talking to him and starting to realize what he was doing and thinking, wow, man, I could have used this 10 years ago.

Bent Washburn [00:05:29] I had to work through that crisis. I had to reach out and connect with people on comedy stages, telling jokes in, like bars all over. And not as healthy as the option that Mormon Stories podcast has put together for people. And I think people always remember. John Dalen will be remembered for that. That's the thing that he will always be remembered for.

Buckley Jepson [00:05:58] My name is Buckley Jepson. My husband and I live in Portland, Oregon. We, we've been married for 10 years. We have a married daughter and three grandchildren whom we adore and who are proud to have an extra grandpa.

Buckley Jepson [00:06:11] I knew nothing about Mormon stories when John approached me back in 2006 to tell my own story on his podcast. At the time, I couldn't imagine why anybody would want to sit through three hours of my Mormon story.

Buckley Jepson [00:06:25] But the email afterwards started pouring in. A bishop of New York who said listening to the podcast helped him feel less alone and so he abandoned his plan to kill himself that night. A lesbian couple in the Netherlands who returned to the church after being away for 24 years. And on and on.

Buckley Jepson [00:06:45] I changed my life. Nearly nine years later, I still get email and comments about those podcasts. How could I not be changed? Since then, I've been an avid listener. I don't always agree with the views of some of the guests, but I've grown to really love the diversity of Mormon thought.

Buckley Jepson [00:07:03] I think I'm probably typical of most listeners. We care about our heritage. We want to know more. I'm a high priest with over five decades of church study and participation. But as a gay man, I've been marginalized, to say the least.

Buckley Jepson [00:07:19] John's work on behalf of LGBT people has made a huge difference in my life and in the lives of so many others. Mormon Stories reminds me that there is something virtuous, lovely, and of good report and praiseworthy. I should seek after these things. And the Mormon Stories podcast falls into this category in my opinion.

Buckley Jepson [00:07:40] I'll forever be grateful for his hard work, for his compassion and his devotion to Mormons and all their beautiful and messy diversity. I pray that he'll continue to bring the stories of Mormons into my life and into the lives of many other people for years and years to come.

Guest [00:08:00] Hi, I'm Jessica Finnegan. During my ongoing academic research into the social impact various technological innovations have created in the church, repeated patterns have emerged. One of the most surprising and profound patterns has been the importance of grassroots efforts by members who are technically minded, who have helped the Church understand how best to utilize new technologies while simultaneously helping to assuage the underlying fears these new technologies have brought.

Guest [00:08:28] While the church, under the direction of very talented forward thinking members, has been able to internally integrate the printing press, the telegraph, the computer, and even the Internet, but these integrations were largely limited to increased internal effectiveness and efficiency.

Guest [00:08:46] However, the Internet has presented a huge challenge to the organization's ability to control its own message. The use of online Mormon forums goes back to the earliest days of the Internet with message boards and BBS's. The discussion surrounding difficult questions and the history was not invented by John or Mormon Stories since members have been wrestling with these concepts for almost 190 years.

Guest [00:09:10] However, the creation of Mormon Stories has undoubtedly shaped Mormonism and altered the conversation not only online but in the mainstream media and official church levels. I think that one of the most important and significant impact of Mormon Stories has extended past the conversation into podcasts to the creation of vibrant online communities. These communities have given a place to thousands of less orthodox Mormons to share and connect. For some to continue to be active members of the Church, for others to progress through the pain and hurt of leaving without bitterness.

Guest [00:09:48] From Mormon's Stories and its global community support groups have sprung a multitude of online and real life friendships. These communities have given a home to those who have felt that they did not quite fit within the constraints of many parts of Mormon culture.

Guest [00:10:06] I do think the legacy of Mormon Stories will be John's foresight and public acknowledgment that unlike previous technologies, the Internet must be handled intelligently and proactively while the Church will try to engage with its pre Internet tactics which if they were honest they would realize had mixed results anyway. But Mormon Stories has demonstrated that the Internet cannot be smashed and perfectly illustrates one of my favorite sayings, the Internet views, censorship is damaged and routes around it. I think the legacy of Mormon Stories will be profound and long lasting, providing rich data for digital and religious sociologists. For decades, John's work has transformed conversations and created online communities where individuals have felt empowered and safe.

Guest [00:10:52] Despite the current backlash against John's work, I feel that history will look very favorably upon his efforts to prepare a community he loved for the impact and impending disruption the Internet would create to standard operating procedure.

Guest 2 [00:11:07] Hello John, this is Claudia Bushman calling. I'm sorry that you're having this difficulty right now. I really feel bad about it. I think that you have done a very good job in bringing people together in many ways caring about them. And I think that the most important thing that we can do is to work together, to care about each other and to learn how to get along. That's what I think we need to do.

Guest 2 [00:11:33] So the Church is certainly strong enough to withstand criticism of some kind. Personally, I think that the Church provides its blessings and opportunities that we should all value it and care about it. But I also think that it's strong enough that we can talk freely and openly and we should about it, and that that is a good thing to do.

Guest 2 [00:11:59] I don't like to see divisions among our people. I want mutual love, concern, help, things like that. And many people have benefited from your organization and your innovations and I just want to thank you for the things that you've done. Wish you well in these difficult days. Bye.

Guest 3 [00:12:25] Hello John and Mormon Stories listeners. This is Andrew Ainsworth. I'm a longtime fan of Mormon Stories, and John was kind enough to let me interview a couple guests for Mormon Stories, Damon Smith and Phil McLemore. I found Mormon stories in 2007 when my home teacher recommended it to me. I had confided my home teacher that I was struggling with my testimony, and he told me I wasn't alone, that there was a podcast where Mormons of all stripes were addressing the challenging issues and searching for ways to reconcile their new learnings with their old convictions. So I listened to a few Mormon Stories episodes and I was immediately hooked.

Guest 3 [00:13:02] From the outset, I was struck by the humility and courageous that so many of John's guests exhibited as they opened up about difficult and sometimes painful personal struggles. And I was equally struck by John's open mindedness, his earnest desire to understand people no matter where they fell on the spectrum of orthodoxy.

Guest 3 [00:13:22] Thomas Merton defined true Christian love in a way that deeply resonates with me. He said the beginning of love is the will to let those we love be perfectly themselves, the resolve not to twist them to fit our own image. If in loving them we do not love what they are, but only their potential likeness to ourselves, then we do not truly love them. We love only the reflection of ourselves we find in them.

Guest 3 [00:13:52] In my estimation, John Dehlin has repeatedly displayed that true Christian love in his interviews for Mormon Stories. The first time I observed that was when I listened to his interview of a polygamist Mormon fundamentalist. How many of us who were born and raised in the LDS Church have ever made a sincere effort to understand Mormon fundamentalists, to look at things from their perspective, and to appreciate the sincerity of their hearts, regardless of how much their doctrinal views may differ from our own.

Guest 3 [00:14:23] John has repeatedly demonstrated that true Christian love over and over again in his interviews. He has given his guests the opportunity to speak for themselves, to tell their own stories, and to share their own perspectives, regardless of where they've fallen on the spectrum of orthodoxy. And my hunch is that he'd tell you he's learned something new and has taken away something good from every interview he's ever done, whether his guests were apologists or apostates, fundamentalists or progressives, heterosexuals or homosexuals, and so on.

Guest 3 [00:14:58] To me, that is a demonstration of true Christian love, and it's the type of love that the world so desperately needs more of, the type of love that loves people for who they are rather than looking down on them for who they aren't. Not a conditional love, not an exclusivist love, not a divisive love, but an unconditional, inclusive, and unifying love that dares to disregard the established boundaries of tradition, orthodoxy, and cultural prejudice. That's the type of love I see Jesus demonstrating when he touches lepers or tells the parable of the Good Samaritan, or eats with sinners and publicans, or speaks to the woman at the well, or refuses to condemn the woman taken in adultery.

Guest 3 [00:15:44] In closing, I'd like to share a prayer that Thomas Merton wrote because I think it applies so well to each of us Mormon Stories fans individually and to the Mormon community collectively. My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end, nor do I really know myself.

Guest 3 [00:16:09] And the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this, you will lead me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it. Therefore, will I trust you always, Though I may seem to be lost in and in the shadow of death, I will not fear for you are ever with me and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

Guest 3 [00:16:49] John, you are not alone at this difficult time, and on behalf of thousands of Mormon Stories listeners, I thank you for creating a community where we have discovered that we too are not alone.

Mormon Stories and the Progressive Community

Guest 4 [00:17:03] Hi, my name is Nancy Ross. I am in the leadership group of Ordain Women and I wanted to talk for a few minutes about what Mormon Stories has done for me. A few years ago I started struggling with some issues of my faith and had some questions and I was turning to the scriptures a lot and couldn't find the answers that were meaningful to me. And I looked online through church resources and kept finding the same kinds of answers, but they weren't really meaningful to Me either.

Guest 4 [00:17:38] And so I had these questions, and I wanted to stay Mormon, but it seemed a little bit impossible, or it seemed like that was going to be too difficult. And in the church, we use so much black and white language, like you're in or you're out. You're with us or you're against us. And I thought that if I started to have questions, even though they were very sincere questions and not coming from a place of rebellion, that I must have to be on the outside.

Guest 4 [00:18:07] And that was very upsetting. And at the same time, I didn't feel like I had any choice to stop attending church or to. To actually. To actually leave. And then when I started looking online for resources, I found the progressive Mormon community. And I've been very involved with Mormon feminism. But I also found Mormon stories and listened to some of the podcasts.

Guest 4 [00:18:33] And what I heard on the podcast was really a relief to me that other people had questions and that other people had dealt with their questions in a variety of different ways. And that led me to believe that I had real choices where I had been starting to feel trapped previously, because I had not felt that I had real choices.

Guest 4 [00:18:56] And when I realized that I had real choices, that gave me some breathing space to have a little less stress about my questions and to realize that working through my questions was just going to take time, and that that didn't mean that I had to leave the church, and it didn't mean that I had to stay, but that the ball was really in my court. And I think that's one thing that Mormon stories really helped me to understand, was that I had choices and that other people saw their Mormonism and their practice of Mormonism in a variety of ways, and that I didn't have to let somebody else define my faith or define the practice of my faith for me, that that was firmly within my power.

Guest 4 [00:19:46] And Mormon stories and listening to other people telling their stories on the podcasts really made that clear to me, and that was a tremendous comfort. As a result of feeling like I had space to make my own choices, I've not ended up leaving the church at all. I have stayed. And today I teach Relief Society, and, you know, I have a current temple recommend. And in many ways, I'm a pretty orthodox Mormon in many ways, but I have a few heterodox beliefs, and that's something that I'm comfortable with, even though maybe other people aren't comfortable with that. But I really felt. I really feel that Mormon stories helped me to find that place.

Guest 4 [00:20:32] It's not the only thing that helped me to find that place, but it was certainly, certainly contributed to that. And hearing how other people work through their issues, how other people dealt with questions and with historical issues and problems in the church was ultimately a real comfort to me.

Guest 5 [00:20:56] John, this is Bill Prince. We've been asked to share a few thoughts on how we feel about Mormon Stories and its contribution that it has made to the Mormon community. I can't say enough good things about Mormon Stories. I've enjoyed listening to the podcast for hours and hours and the various interesting topics to get to know the individuals that you've interviewed. When you interview them, you did such a great job at finding out about their personal lives and how they got to where they were and their testimonies and what has impacted their testimonies, their lives in the church. It's just been very, very interesting. My wife and I have had a lot of opportunities to discuss a lot of these podcasts and it made for some great conversation.

Guest 5 [00:21:50] I think, about when we left the church many years ago, about 30, 25, 30 years ago, there was no one that we could really discuss things with, and so we just had to keep it bottled up amongst ourselves. And then when you invited us to share our feelings in the podcast few years back was good. It made it feel like that we could kind of let things go.

Guest 5 [00:22:15] We never felt like that people really understood and you didn't really want to spend the time to explain to them. So that was a very good opportunity. I just feel like that those that are struggling with doubts in the church, this has provided such a great opportunity for them to hear other people's feelings and to go over the various topics. And since the church has released their essays on the various aspects of Mormon history, I think there's going to be a lot more people that will want to listen to the Mormon Stories and gain from what it has to offer. So you've done a great job.

Guest 5 [00:22:55] A tremendous contribution to the church, in my view, and to Mormons and to the Mormon community. Hope you're able to continue this for many years to come. Keep up the good work. Bye bye for now.

Personal Stories of Faith Transition and Growth

Guest 6 [00:23:13] Hi, I'm Taryn Nelson Seawright and I have had the privilege of being on Mormon stories three times, I think, in the past 10 years. Now, when I was on Mormon Stories the first time, the experience was really wonderful. I was able to talk about my faith in my own experience, and it made me feel understood in a way that I rarely did among Mormons. And also it made me feel valued. And later on after I'd left the church, I was on Mormon Stories again to talk about what had changed and what that felt like. And once again, it made me feel validated and cared about and as though I could still in some way be part of the community.

Guest 6 [00:24:05] And quite aside from that, I found that listening to Mormon Stories, especially the interviews with Mormons who remained believers and remained active in the LDS Church, helped me to keep perspective on my own departure. It's so easy when we leave a community and our own identity starts to shift. It's so easy to demonize the people who stayed. But you can't do that if every week or two, you're listening to some of those people talk and hearing them be real people who have experiences like yours.

Guest 6 [00:24:45] And it also helped me remember that I need to respect people who stay. And I can't assume that for some reason they are less intelligent than I am or something like that, that they really are people who have reasons of faith and belief and love for staying. There's one last thing that I would like to talk about, which is the second time I was on Mormon Stories, it was a discussion on women's place in the church and feminism and the difficulties of integrating Mormonism and feminism. And I had had a lot of conversations with Mormon men about this, and it was always very frustrating because even when they were trying to be sympathetic, they had great difficulty listening to what women were saying.

Guest 6 [00:25:37] And they were very resistant to actually reading any literature written by feminists, you know, about feminist theory or the history of. Of feminism or women's rights work. And so I walked into this panel discussion with John, and I and several other women began talking, and John began to interrupt us and try to correct us a little and so on and so forth and everything I was used to.

Guest 6 [00:26:07] But when we pointed out what he was doing, he said, oh, my. Or something like that. And then he actually agreed to do some reading, and he did some reading, and he came back and he said, I can see what you guys were saying.

Guest 6 [00:26:23] And it seemed to actually affect the way he dealt with us and probably with other women in the church. And it was an experience that I'd rarely had inside or outside of Mormonism. And that showed me that John is the kind of person who genuinely cares and listens. So.

Guest 7 [00:26:49] This is Jake Abhow. My wife and I did a Mormon Stories podcast in November, I believe, of 2014, and just wanted to thank John for that opportunity to tell our story and have it heard. And I cannot express what that's done to us as Far as we've had so many people reach out to us individually and thank us for just sharing our story, which that would not have been possible without the platform that John has created over the last so many years. I gotta tell a quick, quick story, though, about when I first first learned of Mormon stories and John Dehlin.

Guest 7 [00:27:29] He didn't have the greatest reputation, to me, anyway. I'd heard that he was angry towards the church, bitter. He was trying to kind of pull people away from the church and walk them out of the church. And that was just a perception I had because I didn't know really anything about it.

Guest 7 [00:27:46] But after getting to know him and really listening to a lot of the podcasts and also some of his commentary on his own podcast, boy, I could not have been more wrong. I had so, so much respect for what he's done and the motives that he has behind them. I know a lot of people have said that he has his own agenda, and he does. Boy, he does. And I know firsthand that his agenda is obviously to make a difference and make a change and to save lives. And specifically, I'm so appreciative of what he's done for the LGBT community. He's definitely paved the way for my son and others like him to be able to live their lives openly and comfortably inside the church or outside the church.

Guest 2 [00:28:31] So.

Guest 7 [00:28:32] But I do have to also comment that what this excommunication might do towards our LGBT youth. I'm definitely extremely concerned about the implications that if you muzzle somebody like John Dehlin, who has kind of been the face of LGBT rights within the LDS community. I'm definitely concerned that parents, kids, and other people that might normally speak out pro LGBT may now be a little bit more fearful to do so. And when people are scared to speak out, all that does is that keeps more people in the closet. And when you keep more of these youth in the closet, that's going to contribute to shame, self loathing, and ultimately suicide, or at least suicide thoughts.

Guest 7 [00:29:25] And that is a great concern of mine. And so I'm very disheartened to hear this news. But what I hope will happen is that his voice will become louder, not quieter, because of the result of this. And I certainly support him and want to make that, make that very, very known. So thanks, John, for everything that you've done. You're a good friend and I really appreciate getting to know you over this last year. Thanks you.

Guest 8 [00:29:53] I'm your host, Brent Metcalf. Let's talk Mormon studies. As a species. We instinctively tell stories. Stories help us cope with reality. They can even help preserve our sanity at a time when the world may seem somewhat insane. They are a common vehicle among humans by which we can share our experiences. Mormon Stories Podcast has provided people with an outlet for expressing their stories and sharing them with others. But far more than this, it is also a repository of a vast developing oral history of the Mormon faith journey. Thank you, John, and thanks for your friendship.

Guest 9 [00:31:25] If you don't know it now, then you will do. If you don't fit now, then you will.

Guest 2 [00:31:46] Hi, this is Carolyn Pearson. During the last few years I've had in my ward, maybe four or five wonderful young women approach me individually and surreptitiously and say something like, oh, Sister Pearson, I listened to or I watched your interview with John Dehlin on Mormon Stories, and I feel strongly about some of those issues and I wonder if you and I could talk sometime.

Guest 2 [00:32:23] So that opened a wonderful door for me and these yet various young women. And I have had good conversations and taken walks up in my hills and talked about everything in this whole large question of church stuff, I find that I consistently encourage people who talk to me that if there is enough in the church that attracts them to stay there and be part of the community and feel free to use their voices to try to make our community more just in whatever way they are feeling.

Guest 2 [00:33:08] So in that way, and in a lot of ways, I'm appreciative of the very large body of work, of interviews, of stories that Mormon Stories and John have provided. And I believe that it will come to be seen as a really significant repository of this time in our church history.

Guest 2 [00:33:33] And I really hope that all of us can feel free to tell our stories and continue to listen to one another's stories in whatever format there might possibly come.

Fellow Podcasters and Authors Offer Gratitude

Guest 10 [00:33:52] Hello, this is Dan Weatherspoon, the host of the Mormon Matters podcast, doing a little audio clip to thank John Dehlin for all the wonderful things that he's done for me in my life. I won't be able to enumerate all of those, but also to for sure celebrate him and Mormon Stories Podcast and how important I think it is, I need to tell some stories a little bit about John and me. John first started me in podcasting a long time before he even started Mormon Stories. That was when he was on the board of directors of Sunstone at the time that I was the head of Sunstone, and he just said, you know, there's this new format called podcast coming out and Sunstone ought to interview its key authors in each issue and do a podcast.

Guest 10 [00:34:34] And so I ended up doing three or four podcasts under the name Sunstone Podcast. We also ended up with one called Sunstone Classic, where we played a few past symposium things and Sunstone lit that Steven Carter became the host of. And we did a few episodes of that, but it was a little early. We were a little bit overwhelmed with all the other things we had to do at Sunstone, and that was short lived. But that was my first introduction to podcasting. My first actual Mormon stories thing was John coming to the offices of Sunstone after a board meeting and grabbing Tom Kimball and him and I on episodes 15 through 17.

Guest 10 [00:35:13] Way back in 2006, we did an introduction to James Fowler's Stages of Faith and that kind of got me a feel for what he was doing. And that was followed up a few years later by John inviting me to do some interviewing for Mormon Stories to kind of grab friends of mine and people that I could get as interviewees. And so I grabbed Daniel Peterson and Richard Dutcher. John specifically asked me to do Tyson Jacobson and Randall Snyder as they kind of talked about their journey from Mormonism to atheism and just began to. I began to really enjoy this format. One of my things at Sunstone was this kind of this prejudice for the long form.

Guest 10 [00:35:55] You know, oh, blogs are out there and everything's really short and there's these quick hits and nobody's taking the time to do the long form. And so even as John was kind of suggesting different changes for Sunstone, I was rejecting, rejecting, rejecting. But I basically have come over to the light that podcasts in many ways are the long form for this generation. I still value the printed word. I still want great writing with super good editing. But I think in this format of podcasting, some of them I know everyone thinks are way too long. Both John's interviews as well as mine at Mormon Matters. But that in some ways is the way that we get past just the short quick takes of most blog posts and hopefully can encourage substantive responses and good discussions.

Guest 10 [00:36:45] I appreciate John's vision. Way ahead of the game here in Mormonism. I think there was just one or two podcasts going at the time that John started that that were Mormon related podcasts. What a visionary the guy is. The next step for me was John inviting me to take over the podcast that he had started a while back but had kind of gone dormant, which is Mormon Matters. And this is back in March 2011. So it's been almost four years now since I've become the host of the podcast. And at the time, that was really a podcast that was mostly about what's happening in the news this week, this past 10 days, and just to get a panel together for an hour and just discuss quickly and do some framing on anything that was in the news.

Guest 10 [00:37:33] So I did that. And if you'll notice back the first few podcasts that I took over, that was pretty much that was the format. We were responding to various articles that would come out, the Brandon Davies controversy over it at BYU and things like that.

Guest 10 [00:37:48] But it just began to evolve to me that there wasn't either so much news going on as there were just topics that I wanted to go into depth. And slowly but surely Mormon Matters became more about just deep dives with a panel into different topics.

Guest 10 [00:38:03] I think John was a little bit bummed about that and he made a couple of attempts, and I know he did recently kind of a new thing called Mormon News Review that I think had an episode or two. I'm sure John would still love somebody out there who's listening to kind of say, I want to host that weekly review type show. But John never really complained too badly about Mormon Matter. Sort of becoming a little bit more along the lines of the things that I'm interested in, just kind of my personality and stuff.

Guest 10 [00:38:33] I'll just wrap up with just saying that. I just want to celebrate you, John. I want to celebrate Mormon stories. I think what you've done here is, has come out of your beautiful heart, which is full of empathy for people, especially people in pain and struggle, as well as just empathy that these people who are in pain and struggle, who are looking for guides or whatever, they get to hear as many voices as possible and try to sort out for themselves what's the directions that they want to go. We had this great mix of super faithful voices, Bushmans and Givens and Joanna Brooks and Jana Reese and all these wonderful folks with.

Guest 10 [00:39:16] With that, you know, Mormonism seems to be working for them, as well as other voices that are more on the margins or wanting to talk about particularly different troublesome issues. And you just brought everybody together and you just simply said, let's let the listeners sort things out for themselves. And so I just think that's a wonderful, powerful thing. I know that lots of people will listen to the kinds of stuff that I do and say, oh, that's not for me. That's not a path for me where others will respond really positively. And the same thing happens, I think, when the guests who are a little bit less certain that they can make Mormonism work or they've already left Mormonism or something.

Guest 10 [00:39:54] Sometimes we'll listen to that and say that, yeah, that seems like the right path for me. While other people at the same time will say, you know, having that articulated out to that degree, no, that's not for me. I think I am going to see about sticking around longer and making a slower decision or something. So I just think you've done such an important, important service by just trusting people, trusting the listeners, trusting those that you have on that they have important things to say. John, I couldn't celebrate Mormon Stories more as a great good in this world. I couldn't love you and your good heart more.

Guest 10 [00:40:29] You and I are brothers, but we're the brothers who fight with each other. We scream at each other. But on the other hand, who do you love more than your brother? You just simply say, I trust even in our conflict, that there's pureness and goodness and baseline love and respect. You've always shown that to me. I will always do my best to say to you, I love you, I sustain you, I support you, even as our paths sometimes go differently and even as we disagree about certain things. Thank you Mormon Stories. Thank you, John Dehlink. Take care.

Julie Prince [00:41:20] Hi John, this is your stage mom from many years ago, Julie Prince. When Bill and I left the church about 25 years ago, there was no one around like you. It was hard for our family. It seemed especially hard for Bill and Christina.

Julie Prince [00:41:38] I decided that Even though a 20 plus year membership was a long time, it wasn't the same as being raised in the church from birth. When you asked Christina, Bill and me to share our thoughts about leaving the church and how it affected our family and friends in a podcast, I couldn't imagine what I might say or how it might help someone.

Julie Prince [00:42:02] Leaving the church seems so long past. Little did I know that that podcast helped bring closure that we didn't even appreciate we needed, as well as gaining the love and respect from family members and friends who had not realized the arduous path we had taken.

Julie Prince [00:42:23] Since then, we continue to be edified and amazed at so many of the other Mormon Stories podcasts we hear. Thank you so much John. You have really helped us and I'm sending my love, respect and comfort to you and your sweet family.

Laurie Winder Stromberg [00:42:49] Hi, I'm Laurie Winder Stromberg. There are no perfect martyrs, save perhaps one. But I believe in the sanctity of dissent. It keeps us honest and seeking. And so I add my voice to others who oppose excommunication for apostasy and public advocacy in the 21st century. It just seems anachronistic and coercive. Our religious communities, our beliefs, our practices, our social policies must be able to withstand scrutiny. Speaking to a devotional audience at the then Church College of Hawaii, Elder Hugh B. Brown, second Counselor in the First Presidency,

Guest 2 [00:43:32] said,

Laurie Winder Stromberg [00:43:34] one of the most important things in the world is freedom of the mind. From this, all other freedoms spring. Such freedom is necessarily dangerous, for one cannot think right without running the risk of thinking wrong. But generally, more thinking is the antidote for the evils that spring from wrong thinking. We call upon you to exercise your God given right to think through every proposition that is submitted to you and to be unafraid to express your opinions with proper respect for those to whom you talk and proper acknowledgment of your own shortcomings. We live in an age when freedom of the mind is suppressed over much of the world. We must preserve this freedom in the Church and resist all efforts of earnest men to suppress it. Be unafraid to express your thoughts. We are not so much concerned with whether your thoughts are orthodox or heterodox as we are that you have thoughts.

Guest 11 [00:44:50] Hello, My name is John McClay. My first exposure to Mormon stories came in early 2011. Brooke, my spouse at the time, had begun to listen to John's podcasts. She was the one who introduced me to two Mormon Stories, and by December of that year, Brooke and I were sitting in the home of John de Lind's mother in Draper, Utah, along with the talented Richard Holdman, to record our podcast.

Guest 11 [00:45:20] I recall eating lunch with John at Cafe Rio during a break. While recording our brief podcast, I felt an almost immediate personal connection to John. I sense tremendous compassion and empathy, particularly as he shared his feelings regarding the importance of community and culture.

Guest 11 [00:45:41] As Brooke and I drove home to Colorado that weekend after recording our podcast, I remember thinking and even saying aloud that very few people would likely listen to the podcast. But at least we put our story out there and we made a couple of great friends in John and Richard in the process.

Guest 11 [00:46:02] It turns out I was wrong about the number of people that would listen to the podcast. I continue to receive messages, and most of them are positive from folks who come across the podcast, and the reason I share this is because it's at the heart of what Mormon Stories has meant to me and I believe to many others.

Guest 11 [00:46:23] Mormon Stories has brought countless beautiful people into my life. Professor and writer Robert McKee has said that stories are the currency of human contact These stories that John has been instrumental in bringing to light have enriched my life with human contact.

Guest 11 [00:46:44] Whether through listening to the podcast and connecting with John and his guests, or through the people that I've actually met by way of Mormon Stories, I have been blessed with phenomenal friendships and connections because of Mormon Stories. Without question, the most valuable contribution John Dehlin in Mormon Stories has given to me is human contact in ways that are really too personal and probably too self serving to mention. I can truthfully say that because of the human connections it has spawned in my life, Mormon Stories has saved my life.

Guest 11 [00:47:24] John Dehlin is my friend. He is an inspiration to me. He is one of the reasons that I am writing a book. I love him not only for the work he has done with Mormon Stories, but for his goodness.

Guest 11 [00:47:39] His podcasts and his presence in my life have inspired me to explore, celebrate and challenge my own story. Thank you John. I love you Brother

Julie Prince [00:47:51] John.

Voices from the Margins Find a Home

Guest 12 [00:47:52] This is Christina McClendon and Tina Prince. As you once knew me, I am from podcast number 331. I wanted to take a moment to reflect on what the Mormon Stories Podcast has meant to me. When I left over 25 years ago, there was no Mormon Stories Podcast. Little did I know when I wrote my letter to you looking for help so many years ago that I would speak on your podcast and get that help so many years later, I didn't think that I had unresolved feelings about leaving the church, but being able to speak about it was quite cathartic. Having others acknowledge my choices and stand and clap for me and my parents was an honor I never knew I needed.

Guest 12 [00:48:33] This is the magic of Mormon Stories Podcast. Speaking your truth. Allowing a forum for others to gather and speak their truth, to no longer suffer in silence is such a gift. You offer this gift to everyone, both member and former member alike. I've enjoyed so many hours of podcasts as you genuinely and lovingly interview people from all walks of life, allowing them to speak their truths, allowing your listeners to know that they are not alone. Your podcasts have prompted others to stop suffering in silence.

Guest 12 [00:49:07] Your podcasts prompt others to reach out and connect so that they will not be alone. I know this to be true because I have been contacted so many times after my own podcast. Since that time, my spiritual journey has been so full. In two years I have learned so much about myself and made so many good changes in my life. I'm so proud of the woman that I am and the podcast for me was the impetus for for this awakening. Thank you so much for the work you're doing and helping others find their way. This is so important.

Guest 12 [00:49:40] I'm so glad I wrote you the letter and I'm so glad you have created a community where I was helped and with my voice, help others who are still suffering in silence.

Guest 13 [00:49:51] My name is Tom Kimball. I'm the marketing director for Signature Books. I've had the good fortune of getting to know John about the same time that Mormon Stories was introduced, Dan Witherspoon and I were presenting papers at Sunstone on James Fowler's stage theory.

Guest 13 [00:50:06] I suppose this is how we got on John's radar when he interviewed us for the podcast. It was fairly early in the series. We were episodes 15 through 17. That was eight years ago. My own life has changed somewhat since, and I've had a significant number of people who have written to me saying that the podcast either helped them either find a way to better navigate within the church or soften their transition away from the faith.

Guest 13 [00:50:34] This pastoral nature of the podcast is being overlooked by the church leaders and I suppose may lie at the root of these troubles. I've enjoyed John's friendship and generosity. John once chaired a session at Sunstone for a discussion on testimony and temple interviews. Between myself and James McLaughlin, I have to say that that was probably the most fun interactive session I've been a part of, and John has that way of pushing discussions one level deeper.

Guest 13 [00:51:04] Everyone walked away from that session a little more energized and a little bit more seasoned. John, these folks who sit in judgment over you are on their own path. We were once a lot like them. It isn't really fair, nor is it their fault that they are where they are. And I hope that you know that this is about them, not about you. I suppose you know that. Godspeed, brother.

Guest 14 [00:51:45] Hi, this is Lindsey park from the Feminist Mormon Housewives podcast. I remember the first time I had ever heard of Mormon stories. I was driving on a long stretch past the Great Salt Lake. There's no road lights, it's really dark. And the road sort of represented how I was feeling about Mormonism. I was serving in the young women's and I had some major, major doubts about the history of polygamy. Anytime I tried to talk to anybody about them, I was told to ignore it, that my feelings weren't valid, that if anything, something was wrong with me. I was in a lot of pain. And I looked over at my husband and I said, I think we need to get divorced because something is happening to me.

Guest 14 [00:52:29] I am starting to question belief and I can't stop myself. I have tried to stop and I can't. And I know where this is going, and it's not good. You need to divorce me and find someone who is more righteous than me.

Guest 14 [00:52:43] That night, I went home, trying to hold back tears, and I decided for the first time to get on the Internet and search about Mormon polygamy. And so I did, and I found Mormon Stories Podcast. It was like a light in the darkness. It broke up this darkness. It burst through this grief I was feeling.

Guest 14 [00:53:05] Somebody. Somebody out there was talking about this. Somebody out there was talking about the doubts I had. And there was no condemnation or judgment. It was just a conversation. That was the beginning of Mormon Stories for me. And this is the beauty of Mormon Stories. It is people, ordinary people, and they are flawed and they are also beautiful and have many wonderful, incredible stories to tell. This is the story of Mormon Stories, and that is a story of Mormonism to me. It's a story of people who are foolish, flawed, and broken and beautiful and redeemed and trying. And these are the stories that we hear in Mormon Stories.

Guest 14 [00:53:44] I don't think that there's a healthy spiritual community that doesn't allow members to explore and participate authentically in an authentic faith. Mormon Stories is an attempt at this. When I started questioning my faith, I felt like my marriage had to end and my life had to end. Mormon Stories show me that I was wrong, that it didn't have to end, that I wasn't alone, and that life is a lot bigger and more beautiful than I ever thought before.

Guest 14 [00:54:12] I support the work that Mormon Stories is doing and will continue to do of sharing authentic stories, of being that light in the darkness to people, a hope in the wilderness, a light on a hill, to people who need to talk about these things and experience and understand the harder parts of our Mormon story. And that's the work that Mormon Stories is doing. So thank you, Mormon Stories, and thank you, John De Lynn, for being brave enough to put yourself out there to explore these hard topics, to make mistakes, to try again, and to continue giving voice to these incredible narrations of the Mormon experience.

Guest 2 [00:54:55] This is Todd Compton, and I wrote something, and then they asked me to read it. So here's what I wrote. I don't know John Dehlin very well, but I followed his career at Mormon Stories with interest. I was one of the early interviewees for Mormon Stories. Before I knew who John was or what a podcast was, I remember being impressed with how balanced his questions were.

Guest 7 [00:55:21] They were definitely not antagonistic, and they

Guest 2 [00:55:24] elicited answers from me that recognized some of the positive aspects of polygamy. Later, I met John at a party, and it was fun talking to him and hearing some of his experiences. He definitely was trying to deal with problems in church practice and history in a faithful way. Many church members just want to ignore problems in church and scriptural history. I think it shows John's honesty that he wanted to research and deal with these problems.

Guest 15 [00:55:54] Hey, John, this is Darren Smith. I just wanted to tell you that you've been a pioneer and a visionary in the cause of bringing attention to Mormons who've been sort of disenfranchised and dispossessed by the church. When I first did the Mormon Podcast with you regarding my experiences being African American and Mormon, I was very impressed with your ability to really bring out the essence of the story, at least to make me feel comfortable telling it in a way that would be helpful to those listeners and those who are sort of struggling with their faith.

Guest 15 [00:56:33] I've always appreciated that about you and the work that you continue to do on behalf of those who've been left out and left behind in this difficult time for you. Brother, I just wanted to tell you I'm mindful of you. I pray for your success, and I know that in the end, all things shall be made right. So take care. Thank you.

Kate Kelly, Maxine Hanks, and Closing Tributes

Guest 16 [00:57:00] Hi, this is Kate Kelly, founder of Ordain Women, and I wanted to talk a little bit about Mormon Stories Podcast. Now, the Mormon Stories Podcast and John Dehlin and the community that's been created around Mormon Stories has been such a positive influence in my life and the lives of other people that I know and love.

Guest 16 [00:57:18] I got connected with Mormon Stories way back in, you know, eons of time ago, in Internet time, in 2006, when I was still a student at BYU and John did a series of podcasts interviewing young people and BYU students called the Spirituality of the Rising LDS Generation. And it was such a wonderful format. It was right when podcasting was new. And it was so great to hear, you know, really in depth interviews of people taking control of their own narrative, thinking about some really deep and wonderful things, being extremely thoughtful about their faith, and telling their narratives in their own words. I think, particularly for Mormon women, this is important because our stories are often told by men or, you know, really interpreted by men or by outsiders.

Guest 16 [00:58:09] And so it's important for us to be able to tell our stories in our own words and for people to hear them directly from us. And I think the Mormon Stories podcast has been a Great platform for that and has great potential to continue to tell these really important stories. And I think another podcast that I did with John was when a group of us created something called Mormon May Day, where we were trying to really create room for Mormon progressives and liberals. And he's always extremely supportive of new upcoming groups and ideas. And even when I first created Ordained Women, before Ordained Women was anything official or a group or any type of formal entity, I called John and I said, you know, this is what I want to do.

Guest 16 [00:58:53] I need support. I need to be connected to other people in the community. And he immediately connected me to other people because he had, over the years, really connected all types of progressive Mormons, people who want change within the church, people who have transitioned out of the church.

Guest 16 [00:59:12] And so it was from day one of Ordained Women, John and the Mormon Stories podcast has been extremely successful, supportive, and helped. Helped us sort of think through these ideas and do a bunch of different narratives of people involved in ordained women. And I think that's the value is the community that's created, the types of stories that are being told, and really the connections that we can make with each other. Sometimes if you're transitioning through a faith crisis, or if you feel like you're alone in your marriage, or if you're an LGBT person in the church, it can be very isolating. And these podcasts, if you just listen to one for the first time, it helps you know that you're not alone.

Guest 16 [00:59:57] It helps you see the ways in which other people navigate these difficult transitions and difficult periods. Some people stay within the church. It helps people stay who want to stay. It helps people transition out if that's the emotionally healthy thing for them to do. And so it just really connects people in a way that no other community I've seen does and helps. You know, the podcasts are always extremely compelling and interesting and thorough. So I think that there's such a huge value in what John has done and the way he's created Mormon Stories, and I think there's a great potential for the future, for this community to continue to grow, to continue to strengthen people, to.

Guest 16 [01:00:41] To continue to help them through emotionally difficult transitions, and to continue to promote interesting ideas and groups and all kinds of different people rising through the ranks of progressive Mormonism. So I'm really grateful for. I know this is sounding like a testimony. I know that Mormon Stories is true.

Guest [01:01:06] Amen.

Guest 17 [01:01:10] My name is Seth Anderson, and I first discovered Mormon stories in 2006 when I recently had discovered what exactly a podcast was. My Two interests at the time were gay culture and Mormon studies. I had come out a year before, but I didn't. But it didn't initiate a faith crisis for me, rather what I call a knowledge crisis. I had always been uneasy with absolute truth claims about Mormonism, even as a Mormon missionary in writing Russia. But when I returned home, I had too many questions that no one seemed to answer to my satisfaction. During these years of seeking knowledge is when I discovered Mormon stories.

Guest 17 [01:01:42] It was there that I learned I wasn't the only gay Mormon. And Mormon stories tuned me into a discourse that I didn't know existed. John's interview skills got at precise questions and insightful answers from a variety of people from various walks of life and experiences. And I don't think there was an episode that I missed between 2006 and 2010. And this education has been invaluable to me in my relationships with my family and friends, as a graduate student and as an LGBT activist, and even as a person who still claims a Mormon heritage and identity, but on my own terms.

Guest 17 [01:02:15] To me, asking questions and seeking answers is the most Mormon thing a person can do. Leaving the garden and going into the wilderness in search of your own promised land and is a Mormon metaphor that still resonates deeply with me. It was Mormon stories, along with John's compassion and his patience and insight, that helped guide me along this journey.

Jay Nelson Seawright [01:02:38] The next statement is from Jennifer Finlayson Fife.

Guest 18 [01:02:42] I would like to say how much I appreciate what John has created for the LDS community. When I wrote my my dissertation about 12 years ago now on Mormon women and sexuality, I really assumed there was not going to ever be a real forum in which that information could be shared.

Guest 18 [01:03:07] And when Mormon stories came along and I was invited to be interviewed, I was so happy to have a place to talk about important ideas. And then when I saw how much reception there was and how much it made a difference for people, it made me really appreciate what John Dehlin had created.

Guest 18 [01:03:31] A space in which people could wrestle honestly with important theological concepts and cultural realities. I know as a therapist that there have been many people that have been affected by the interviews and ideas that have been discussed. And for many, feeling like that there's actually a space in which to belong in the church because there is more acceptance of a more room to discuss important historical and cultural challenges.

Guest 18 [01:04:14] In particular, I have a brother who was inactive for 25 years from the church. He left as a in his mid-20s, largely because of historical realities that he encountered that he really couldn't reconcile with the ideas that had been taught to him at church up to that point. And so he ended up leaving the church. But I think in many ways his life did not go as well for having left the church. And I think he missed the church quite a bit.

Guest 18 [01:04:46] And about, I'm trying to think maybe about three or four years ago he came back to church and things had changed in his life and he was seeking again and wasn't sure how he could reconcile the complexities of the Book of Mormon and the history of the church with his desire to belong to it. And encountering Mormon Stories and listening to the interviews, it really allowed him to believe that he could come back and find a place again within the community which has been very meaningful and very important to him. So I know he is also very thankful for John Dehlin and his work.

Guest 18 [01:05:32] So I just want to say thank you John, for the space you've created for so many members and the ways that it's positively impacted all of our lives. All my best.

Guest 19 [01:05:44] I'm Maxine Hanks and I've known John de Lune for 10 years, since 2005. I don't think it's possible to find a better human being than John Dehlin. He's one of the most sincere, honest, reliable, hard working, caring, unselfish, self sacrificing people I think I've ever known.

Guest 19 [01:06:06] His devotion to Christian ethics and to the church and its members is so obvious in his true caring about others. Each individual member, their own experiences, their reality struggles, their own needs. John ministers to the 1. He creates a sacred space for the private inner journey to be expressed, the hidden self that we never see in each other. He's brought the inner journey of faith into the open, which is something not really done before.

Guest 19 [01:06:44] He's given voice to the inner stories of our fellow church members, both faithful and doubting, and that allows us to hear the inner truth of people's lives. I've wept openly while listening to some of the stories of fellow members and ex members that John has interviewed. And I have felt so grateful to John for giving me that opportunity to know that soul on such a deep level.

Guest 19 [01:07:14] Mormon Stories has given those who question, doubt or struggle a place to process their inner spiritual journey and to find help and support, mentoring, answers, solutions and reasons to remain and care about the church and Mormonism. I think Mormon Stories has done far more good than harm by providing mentoring and support that's not found anywhere else in Mormon culture.

Guest 19 [01:07:42] Such a deep level of understanding seems unprecedented in Mormon culture. John allows others their own truth and choices. He doesn't try to sway others to any view or position, including his own. And yet he's there for them totally, no matter what their perspective.

Guest 19 [01:08:01] John didn't create the crises of faith within those members and their experiences. He's facilitating them in dealing with it and facing it and surviving it. He's interviewed hundreds of Mormons and organized countless conferences, meetings, dinners, gatherings, and he's even sought dialogue with apostles, all on behalf of greater understanding and healing for those who suffer alone.

Guest 19 [01:08:35] You know, I can't comment on John's discipline, but I can comment on John himself. And John and I, of course, don't agree on all issues or points of view about the church. What two Mormons do agree on all aspects of our faith.

Guest 19 [01:08:51] But I respect John, and I don't think that John deserves to be excommunicated. I think that disciplining doubters and critics won't stop their loss of faith. And I don't think it solves our problems as a church and a community. Personally, I think only greater understanding is what solves problems. And I really think John is committed to that principle.

Guest 20 [01:09:20] Hi, John and Mormon Stories listeners. This is Heather Olson Beale from backwoods East Texas. I know this wasn't supposed to necessarily be about John as an individual, but about the larger Mormon Stories endeavor. But I can't help but note that I've known John and his extended family for years. His mother, his stepfather, uncles, aunts, cousins, his grandparents.

Guest 20 [01:09:43] One of John's uncles was my seminary teacher in high school. His stepfather was my childhood bishop growing up. And I've heard my dad say more than once that one of the reasons that our family was able to so comfortably navigate being liberal Mormons in East Texas was because of the kind of bishop and the kind of person that John's stepfather was. So my relationship with John and his family really has lasted as long as I can remember.

Guest 20 [01:10:09] I wanted to note two things about the significance of Mormon stories to me personally. One, I'm not particularly interested in church doctrine and in church history. So I haven't, sorry, listened to a lot of those episodes. For me, the episodes that were the most meaningful are the ones where we just get to hear people's stories, where we get to where I've been able to listen to others who are both like me in some ways and who are not like me.

Guest 20 [01:10:37] I have wept while listening to people's stories. I have learned a lot. I have gained empathy. Some of people's stories have softened some of my rough edges in some of my positions, unfortunately, I have many rough edges, so I have a lot of work left to do. But for me, it is that notion that if we take the time to listen, it will help us love people more, that we all want to know that our lives mattered and that people are listening to us. So I've appreciated learning about others via Mormon Stories.

Guest 20 [01:11:13] Perhaps even more importantly for me, and I think for many others, Mormon Stories has facilitated personal human connections for me during a time when I definitely was not finding that in my local congregations. I've heard many people say, and I would include myself among them, that they felt alone as they began to worry about whatever issues were concerning them, and that maybe they found a Mormon Stories podcast or a blog or they found a Facebook group or found a regional meetup group and that that helped them feel not alone.

Guest 20 [01:11:49] I have made some of my most wonderful and treasured friendships that I owe largely to John and his outsized and sometimes over ambitious efforts to connect Mormons. We're pretty isolated out here in in East Texas, but thanks to John's efforts, I have made lifetime, longtime friends first, virtually and eventually in real life who I feel like really get me. I've met those people in San Diego, in the Bay Area, Seattle, Utah, Denver, Atlanta, North Carolina, Boston.

Guest 20 [01:12:29] I have met up with strangers that I had previously only known virtually and run crazy 200 mile relay races in Utah, in Southern California, and I'll be doing another one in May in Cape Cod. And all these relationships began with John.

Guest 20 [01:12:50] I'm grateful for Mormon Stories and for the ways in which Mormon Stories has sparked dialogue, sometimes contentious, sometimes good natured, sometimes painful, often uplifting. And for me, and I know for many others, personally transformative. So to sum up this podcast, I'd like to thank all the people who have contributed.

Guest 20 [01:13:14] I want to thank Jason Nelson Seawright, whose brainchild this was and who did all the heavy lifting. And on behalf of all the Mormon Stories listeners all over the world, we'd like to thank you, John, for creating virtual and physical spaces to help us do the work of navigating our personal and collective faith journeys as Mormons. We love you.

Guest [01:13:37] Hi, this is Mary and Peter Danzig of Otter Creek. Remember a few years back when John invited us to be on Mormon Stories, and after we were done, he told us that some of the things that we'd said he thought he might get in trouble for, but he was going to just let them stand. And since then, he's let a lot of other people speak their truth and let it stand and that means a lot to us.

Guest 15 [01:14:01] As a therapist working with Mormons in transition, I can vouch that Mormon Stories is an incredibly important resource. Everyone I talk to has turned to the Mormon Stories podcast for comfort, for support, and for help in sorting through the issues. And John's dedication to letting people tell

Guest 10 [01:14:21] their own stories in their own words

Guest 9 [01:14:23] is such an important piece of that journey.

Guest [01:14:26] We love you, John. This is a little song that we wrote for you and for everyone who's going through this kind of change.

Guest 9 [01:14:46] When it goes it will leave your heart empty no blood on your cross no tablets of stone it might be cold without the promise of redemption you, you have to get by on your own don't turn back for what you couldn't find there's no heaven dwelling in the past Face your heart

Guest 5 [01:15:27] and if

Guest 9 [01:15:27] the field is follow, see what is it grows when it goes. Don't try to trade the seeds of your sorrows they lie in that field now harrowed and sewn the tender stem though slow to root with time begins to grow. Don't turn back for what you couldn't find there's no heaven dwelling in the past. Face your heart and if the field is fallow See what grows when it goes See what grows. When it.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.