Welcome and Introducing the Phoenix Community)

Scott [00:00:00] 1, 2, 3.

John Dehlin [00:00:07] Mormon Stories Podcast is a production of the Open Stories Foundation. All donations to Mormon Stories are fully tax deductible and go directly towards keeping the podcast alive and towards building a community of support for Mormon like you. To support the podcast or to join the community, please become a monthly subscriber today@mormonstories.org. hello, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories Podcast. My name is John Dehlin. I'm your host. And today we have yet another very exciting episode for you all. Before I explain who our guests are, I'm going to give you a little background. And the background is this. In February 2011, it seems like years ago, but it wasn't even a full year ago, Mormon Stories had its first sort of regional conference in Washington, D.C. where we, a bunch of Mormon Stories listeners got together, probably 50 or 60 of us, and we had a conference. Greg Prince came and we watched the Book of Mormon musical. And after that conference was over, I was pretty worn out and we were having a bit of a debrief with those who helped plan it. And one of the participants in the conference, her name is Ann McMullen Peffer, she and I were talking and she got this idea, this crazy idea to create like a million Facebook groups, one for each major city where we thought we might have a critical mass of Mormon Stories listeners. So I don't know, she created like 30 or 40 of these little groups and we let everyone know about them. And the idea behind these groups was the following. You know, there's the online Mormon Stories Facebook group, which has a lot of good activity. We've created forums in the past, and there's always the blog at Mormon Stories where people can talk. But the truth is, in my experience, some of the most powerful events that happen, what I've been exposed to have been, have been face to face. And unfortunately, I can't, you know, go everywhere and. And, you know, there's just a lot of people all over, thousands of listeners, probably 10 or 20,000 listeners at this point to Mormon Stories Podcast. And, you know, they need face to face interactions more than they need sort of these anonymous online relationships or communications. And so we started these groups with the idea, these support communities with the idea that people would get together and support each other so that not only would people get their needs met in a more scalable way, but also some of the more interesting, you know, things could take place. And we're going to be talking about that today. So what we've done today is we've brought together one of the most vibrant and exciting regional communities of all our communities. And it's the. It's the Phoenix, Arizona, support community. And we're gonna just talk a bit about what they've been able to do in their support community. And the purpose is to kind of motivate and inspire others in other communities to get their communities really active and also to kind of share some of the best practices or the tips and the tricks of their local community so that others can learn from their lessons and maybe eventually share back what they've learned so that we can help get these support communities going. So with that introduction, I'm going to now introduce my four guests. The first guest I'm going to introduce is Kendall. Hello, Kendall.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:04:12] Hi there.

John Dehlin [00:04:13] Thanks for joining us.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:04:16] Pleasure.

John Dehlin [00:04:16] We also have Lauren. Hi, Lauren.

Lauren [00:04:19] Hi.

John Dehlin [00:04:20] Thanks again for joining us. And to round it out, we have James and Scott. Hey, guys.

Scott [00:04:28] Hello. Hey.

James [00:04:30] I'm here.

John Dehlin [00:04:31] All right.

James [00:04:32] Thanks for having me on.

John Dehlin [00:04:33] And I should. I don't know what you guys want to plug, but we definitely should plug James, because. James. James. Do you do it with Scott? Do you do the podcast with Scott?

James [00:04:45] Yep.

John Dehlin [00:04:46] Yeah, I just wanted to do a show on the podcast. Why don't you guys tell us a little bit about your new podcast?

Scott [00:04:51] Well, the podcast is called Mormon Bulletin, and it's about Mormon news. So we talk about all the news stories that have to do with Mormonism for the week, and we usually try to keep it just about a half hour, so it's something you can easily listen to. And if you just go to mormonbulletin.com you can subscribe and listen to the podcast.

John Dehlin [00:05:08] Excellent. All right, well, that's a little plug. Now, Kendall or Lauren, do you guys have anything you want to plug? Just to let our listeners know a little bit more about you?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:05:18] I guess what's been on my mind for the last week. Is Kendall unrelated. This is Kendall. Yeah, it's unrelated to Mormonism, but it's something that I just started. It's a real food blog called our nourishingroots.com and it's really great. I'm loving it. It's awesome.

John Dehlin [00:05:34] All right, thanks, Kendall. How about you, Lauren? Any shameless plugs?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:05:38] Sure. Nope.

Lauren [00:05:39] This is my first participation in a podcast, but I listen to all of them, so.

John Dehlin [00:05:46] All right.

Lauren [00:05:46] See how it goes.

John Dehlin [00:05:47] All right, well, good. All right, well, thanks all. Well, we'll do a brief introduction maybe for each of you, but before we dive in, I just wanted to direct our listeners to MormonStories.org and if they're at their computers or if they're not, they can just remember this. There's a tab that says Support Communities there. And if you click on that support Communities tab, you will see 63 different communities that have been created. That's the latest number. And you know, these are in, you know, Texas and, you know, you know, Missouri and Utah and Kentucky and North Carolina, New York. You know, basically most of the major cities and states across the US you'll be able to find a Mormon Story support group, several in Utah, Idaho, etc. There are a few at some universities and there are a few in Canada and a few in Europe and a couple in Latin America. One that spans Asia and one that spans Africa and then a couple special groups. One is dedicated to, you know, lesbian, gays, bisexual, transgendered people and their family and allies.

Scott [00:07:01] And then.

John Dehlin [00:07:02] And then another one dedicated to young single adults. But all you have to do is go up to Mormon Stories, find your group, add yourself to it. If the group doesn't exist, if a group doesn't exist for your local area, all you have to do is email us@mormonstories.org and we'll create a group for you. But the group we're talking to right now is the Phoenix, Arizona group, as I mentioned. And what we want to do is just start out by talking a little bit about the history of this group. So which of the four of you sort of was there at the beginning? Or were all of you there? Who wants to jump in and kind of begin by telling us a little bit about your experience as the group got created?

Scott [00:07:45] Well, I'll start talking. This is James. Even before the Mormon Stories groups had formed on Facebook, some of us had found each other through different online forums, and we'd had a few get togethers for kind of like minded people. And we'd had a really good time and people had really made connections. And then once the Facebook group started, it really brought in a lot of new people and a lot of people were able to find each other. And around that same time, I had been wanting to just start a book club because I just felt really bored at church. I just felt like there's nowhere I could talk about the things that were interesting and important to me. And so I'd been thinking about using meetup.com or something to start a book club. And I thought that the Facebook group would be a perfect place to do that. And so I just kind of put the idea out there and everyone was really excited about it. And we came together and had a Book club, and it was pretty well attended. And then the next month, it was so big that we decided to split it up. Now we actually have two different book club sessions per month, so we can accommodate all the people who want to come. So. So I think that's where it really started bringing people together.

How the Book Club and Support Group Began

John Dehlin [00:08:39] Okay, so you guys started with the book club?

James [00:08:43] Yeah. And the books that we were doing, James, could probably explain this better than I could, but we haven't even had any LDS books per se. I mean, we're all coming from a pretty similar background, but we're studying books that are critical thinking books. Science, psychology, human development, human history. And we can talk about some of the book titles that we've done. But, you know, the books have been a good platform for us to be able to make connections and kind of draw parallels to the transition that many of us are going through in our thought process towards the church.

John Dehlin [00:09:20] Okay, so. Oh, go ahead, James.

Scott [00:09:22] Sorry. No matter what the book is that we're reading for that month, the conversation always circles around the church issues anyway. So whatever the book is, it kind of brings up good issues that we can all discuss about what's going in our lives and what we're doing in the church, too.

John Dehlin [00:09:35] Okay, so, James, you talked a little bit about just being bored at church and needing a little bit more intellectual stimulation, right?

Scott [00:09:44] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:09:44] Kendall, talk about kind of where you were intellectually, emotionally, before kind of this group sprung up and what kind of your needs were that you were looking to fill.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:09:56] Sure, yeah. We had been having a book club. I also. I blog at the exponent there, and so there's a few exponent bloggers in the area where I live.

John Dehlin [00:10:06] Okay.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:10:07] And we had a book club amongst ourselves, but it was fairly small. And because it was all women and all feminists, we would circle around feminist books generally, which I love. But it also didn't bring into the equation all of the men that we knew and our husbands and our friends. And so when the Facebook group popped up, it just happened to be that our feminist book club had sort of been waning. We just said, run our course or something. We didn't meet as often. We still do once in a while. But what I really like about the support community is that we can get all kinds of people saying, well, what about this? And a lot of the things that we've voted on as far as choosing books per month have been things that I've wanted to read but maybe wouldn't be at the top of my list. But because of the group, we're able to accommodate everyone. So we can see that there's this whole group of people who want to read about near death experiences. Then we can pick a book about that or about feminism or about evolution. And so what I liked was the variety. It was really great.

John Dehlin [00:11:08] Okay, so for you, you had a small group kind of aligned along a certain set of subjects. This is kind of expanded your group of friends and given you a little bit more diversity of people and topics to discuss, is that right?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:11:22] Absolutely. And it's really fun because you get into really great conversations with people in the group because the groups are large and because not everyone necessarily agrees. So it's really fun.

John Dehlin [00:11:32] So the diversity makes things more interesting.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:11:34] Yeah, absolutely.

John Dehlin [00:11:35] All right, Scott, what was the gaping chasm in your soul that you needed to fill with the Mormon stories? Support community.

James [00:11:44] You know, when you grow up in the LDS community and you start to have different thoughts or you start to be even, you know, slightly unorthodox in some of your thinking, sometimes you second guess yourself and you think that you're going crazy. One of the things that I found out was that there were people that I knew from high school. There were friends of friends of friends or even friends that I had. I have a missionary companion who's on the Mormon Stories group. I actually already knew James before this. And so this was another way that we could connect. And it's been great to be able to find local people who live just around the corner from me that I would have never known they were listening to the podcast or that they had any similar thoughts regarding the church. And so it's just been enlightening to see how many people are just coming out of the woodwork. And it keeps happening. We started with about 30 people in the group initially, and now we're up over 110. And it's just. It's just grown.

John Dehlin [00:12:46] It's.

James [00:12:46] It's fantastic.

John Dehlin [00:12:47] Yeah, I just want to. This is going to sound really crazy, but for those of you who haven't friended me, John Dehlin at Facebook yet, you really ought to consider friending me. People are finding brothers and sisters, you know, aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, ward members, old missionary companions. They're discovering that some of these people that they have in common that they care about are actually, you know, really well versed and in the know on a lot of these tough issues. Just by friending me, they find that they have common friends and they're able to forge friendships and allies and family and in their ward communities by stumbling upon these People that they had no idea were actually into these topics and issues. So have any of you guys found mute friends through friending me on Facebook?

James [00:13:36] That's how James and I both found out that we were podcast subscribers. We were already friends, but we would have never known that otherwise.

Scott [00:13:43] I found other people, too. Friends from high school and college and such.

John Dehlin [00:13:47] Yeah, yeah, it sounds kind of weird, but it's just. That's why I've opened my Facebook page up, because it's just kind of this neutral way for people to find each other. So, anyway, think about that. But I had this crazy story. This couple came to the Washington, D.C. conference from Sweden, and they left their children with a couple, some members of the church that they. That they were friends with in Sweden. They came to the D.C. conference, came back, friended me, and discovered that the couple that they had left their children with were actually Mormon stories listeners. And they didn't even know it. So it's kind of fun. Anyway. Okay, cool. So let's have Lauren talk about kind of what she was needing or looking for before the group popped up.

Lauren [00:14:39] Well, my husband and I actually live over on the other side of the valley. And when we stopped attending church about three years ago, we didn't know anyone in our family, friends who had ever stopped attending, who had ever doubted or lost their testimony. And so for about 18 months after we left, we were completely alone. We didn't know about the podcast. We'd never met anyone. And I found the podcast first and listened and then became your friend on Facebook. And so when I found the local group, I was desperate to meet other people. So we drive about 40, 45 minutes over for the activities every time. And the first book club, I showed up nervous but really excited to meet other people. And I've gone every month since then. And it's just made a huge difference in our life, being able to talk to other people, like Scott said, to realize you're not crazy, that other people can relate to your experience. And then, you know, being able to work through some of the issues, even though we haven't attended for three years, I mean, it's still a huge part of our life, our families, our friends. And so being able to have other people to, you know, listen and give advice and be friends has really, really been helpful to us.

Who Belongs and What the Group Is For

John Dehlin [00:16:05] Excellent. Well, thank you all for sharing that. So one of the questions that immediately pops up is that this kind of sounds like an apostate group, right? I mean, it sounds like a lot of people aren't believing or they've left the church. And if I'm sort of newer to Mormon stories and I'm kind of more in the believer camp, and I'm listening right now, I guess that I'm wondering whether this is something that believers or faithful people or, you know, people who are active in the church would be comfortable being a part of or would even be comfortable, be welcome or would feel like it was safe. So who wants to jump in and tell us whether or not a believer would be safe at these events or what type of believer might?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:16:56] I think I can talk about that a little bit and then maybe turn it over to James and Scott because they're both in like a mixed faith type of situation.

John Dehlin [00:17:06] Okay, great. Go for it, Kendall.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:17:08] But anyway, I think that what I really like about this group is how sensitive we are to the needs of the group as a whole, because we've definitely chosen books so far for the book club, since that was such a huge part of the beginning that lean towards evolution. But then we started noticing that a lot of people wanted to read other things or that maybe certain people weren't showing up. And so we've been able to create other events that certainly sort of cater to the different parts of our group, which I really like. And there tends to be a nice level of respect, I would think, between the different things that you might show up to. Some people tend to come to book clubs, some people tend to do more of the social activities or go to lunch or dinner. And some people just like the online part and they're biding their time. But something that we've thought of recently, which I don't remember who it was, if it was James or James and Scott both, but they can talk about that. But we're going to start something in a week or two where some mixed faith couples can meet and have a safe space to be there without only non believers.

Scott [00:18:17] Yeah, I would say that at most of our events, most of the people who come are still active in the church, even if they might have non traditional beliefs. But one thing that we noticed is people would come to the book clubs and bring maybe someone was a less orthodox believer and they'd bring a very orthodox believing spouse. Sometimes that spouse wouldn't feel comfortable sharing their more orthodox thoughts on whatever issue we were talking about. Not that I'm sure the group would love to hear what they had to say, but just they maybe felt they were outnumbered and didn't feel confident talking. So we decided to start this mixed couples night where the only people who can come are Couples who, where one spouse is a believer and one spouse is. Is a non believer or having a crisis of faith or kind of in that area. And we thought that'd be a great way to provide a safe space for both spouses to feel comfortable talking and maybe for spouses to discuss how they've strengthened their marriage and how they've come to terms with a spouse with a crisis of faith.

John Dehlin [00:19:17] Is that awkward to tell some people they can't come? Oh, you don't have a mixed faith marriage. You can't come. Is that kind of awkward?

James [00:19:25] Yeah, it has been a little bit awkward.

Scott [00:19:27] I told everyone the first gathering's gonna be at my house in a week, and I told everyone that I'm not gonna kick anyone out of the house. But, you know, we have plenty of other events where everyone's invited. And this, the whole point of this event, it doesn't work unless there's equal numbers on both sides for everyone to feel comfortable speaking. So it does feel a little awkward telling people not to come, but I feel that they have plenty of other opportunities to come.

James [00:19:53] John, can I get my answer to your question?

John Dehlin [00:19:54] Yeah, go ahead, Scott.

James [00:19:56] Oh, sorry. Sorry, Lauren. I wasn't trying to cut you off. That was Kendall or Kendall.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:20:00] That's okay. I'll wait.

Scott [00:20:02] Okay.

James [00:20:03] I was gonna say, I was thinking back to your podcast. I actually re listened to the podcast with Richard Bushman, and one of the questions that you had for him that you said you were unsatisfied with, the answer was, where do people turn in? Where do active members of the church, and I'm an active member of the church turn? Where do you turn and where can you go to talk about these kind of things? Because church isn't a safe place to do it. And going to your bishop probably isn't going to get you very far, and going to most of your family members probably isn't going to be very productive because they're not studying the same things you are. They're not thinking about things the same way. So for a lot of people, this is an extremely safe place where you can open up. You don't have to be in the same place. If you're a believer, that's fine. We have plenty of believers who come to our events. We have active non believers. We have people who are maybe a little bit more on the believing side than some other people, but they're completely inactive. We have people who grew up in fundamentalist sects of the Mormon tree. We have never. People who've never been members of the church who are married to someone who was a member of the church. It's all. There's a huge spectrum. And you know what? We all get together, we hang out, and there's no pressure. It's just a free group where we can get together. And yeah, it's scary sometimes for people who are not used to hearing criticisms of the church or not used to hearing people talk about these things in a certain way, but in a lot of ways, it actually feels more safe, I would say, than many of the groups that we're used to being in.

Scott [00:21:47] That's true. Any viewpoint is welcome. And we even have an evangelical Christian who used to be a Mormon who still believes in the Book of Mormon.

John Dehlin [00:21:55] Crazy.

Lauren [00:21:56] I have to admit, too, that at the beginning, being someone who hasn't attended church in three years, my first time going, I didn't know if I would be welcome. I didn't know if it was going to be people who were still active. And anyway, so I was a little. Had a little trepidation that first time as well, but immediately felt like I belonged as well. Like they said, all stages of belief and participation and activity are welcome.

John Dehlin [00:22:24] Got it. Kendall, were you going to say something before or did it get.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:22:27] I was, yeah. I mostly just wanted to say that how James was talking about it being a little awkward to keep, you know, couples where both are non believers or if you're single, if you're a non believer, that you can't come to these mixed faith meetings. I think it's actually really fair. And what I like about the online aspect is that we all got to discuss that. And so people were able to express, oh, I wish I could come, and that would be really fascinating. But we all pretty much came to the agreement that we respected the fact that that needed to happen. And I think we were all pretty honest with ourselves that if we were believing or if we were married to someone who was believing, that that would be necessary. And so I really enjoyed the level of respect that we had trying to figure that out because I am a social junkie. I love to go to these things. So for me to not go is hard, but I think that it's going to be really, really great for the

Scott [00:23:17] people who can go.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:23:18] So I don't have my ticket. My husband left too.

John Dehlin [00:23:22] What do you guys should reactivate just so you can go to these little.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:23:25] I know. Maybe I'll go to church for a few weeks and see if I can get in.

James [00:23:30] We should add, too, now that our group has gotten to the size that it has, you know, this is one spinoff group, but there's a number of other spinoff groups. We have lunch groups on different sides of town. There's like mommy playgroups that people go to. We've got the book club. I mean, there's that. Somebody just had a party at their house the other night that was no structure, just kind of a wild and crazy party. And so there's a number of different things to go to. And it's becoming a real community.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:24:03] That's true. And I don't know if we want to move on to that yet, but the mom group has been really fun. I'm a stay at home parent and Lauren's come to a couple of these as well. And it's been really great. We've messaged the whole board, our whole group on Facebook and some of the women didn't know we were doing that. And so we would add them in and we have a lot of people that come.

Group Culture, Values, and Communication Norms

John Dehlin [00:24:25] So I want to jump into to those discussions, but really quickly. How do you maintain a respectful tone? How do you develop that culture? Because to be honest, I think my experience is that when liberal Mormon get together, they tend to want to vent, to criticize. And it's really hard to sometimes build a culture of respect because there's so much pent up angst sometimes and anxiety. And so I imagine it's not just automatic that the discourse trends. Respectful. Is that something you guys had to establish official norms? Did you have to like encourage everybody? Did you guys like pass around the, the value statement that got created by Ann and Joanna and others? Like, what did you do to help establish that tone? Or did you do anything or was it natural?

James [00:25:24] Well, at a few of our meetings to start out, we've, you know, just reminded everyone that, that we're all coming from different backgrounds and perspectives and to be respectful of each other. And I think that's important. And I think everyone has come to it understanding that, you know, there's a huge spectrum of belief. And so we need to, we need to respect each other. But also when people open up in a group setting like that, it really, you know, it makes it almost a sacred space where when you, when you cry or when you explain to someone the hard things that you've gone through in your life, the next person, even if they're angry or no matter, even if they're going through something else, they're not going to be disrespectful to you just because you might have different beliefs than the person sitting next to you. That's my thought.

Scott [00:26:13] I think also a lot of.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:26:15] Go ahead.

Lauren [00:26:16] I was just going to say the same thing, that mainly when we share, it's about our own personal journey or personal experience. And I haven't felt that there's been explicit criticism or going after the church in particular, but that we've been able to talk about what we've experienced and where we are, and that there's a lot of respect and compassion towards each individual person and where they are.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:26:39] That's true. I think we've kind of naturally got a group of people that's aware of the fact that they should be using I statements because I've noticed that same thing. So in a way, it's been natural, even though we've also relied upon reminding everyone and making sure that we all know why we're in the group.

John Dehlin [00:26:55] Kendall, tell us what an I statement is. For those who don't know.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:26:58] An I statement is where if you're going to talk about something, especially something that is potentially triggering or very emotional, that you really care about, that you're passionate about, it's always the best policy, I think, to use an I statement to say, I feel this way. I have experienced this. Instead of can you believe what the church does or can you believe what you know, those kinds of things. It's good to say it made me feel this way as opposed to, I know that this person was thinking X, Y or Z.

James [00:27:29] And that's really the Mormon stories message, right? Or that's kind of one of your ideas behind Mormon stories is that people get to speak from their own experiences and tell their story rather than having it be some rigid black or white, this is the way things are.

John Dehlin [00:27:47] So instead of saying the church is stupid and lame and I hate, you know, and I think it's full of evil people. It would be more like when I go to church, sometimes I feel this, or when I read this book, I felt that or thought this. And you're more speaking from your experience and your feelings versus impugning people's motives or making sweeping generalizations that could go against what other people are experiencing. Is that kind of.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:28:17] Absolutely.

John Dehlin [00:28:18] Okay. That's really good stuff. Okay. So. Wow, it sounds like. And I really loved what you said about when someone shares something from their soul, how people tend to take that, make that really sacred. And that seems to be something that you just get when people get face to face. You know, people just, they start crying and they start sharing and it becomes sacred really quickly. So I'm really glad to hear that. That's how your group is shaped up and I hope that works for other groups as well. Okay, so we've talked about some of the different types of groups or activities. You've got book clubs there, you've got places, playgroups, you've got women's groups. What am I missing? Parties. Just parties?

Social Events, Growth, and Community) Structure

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:29:05] Well, we have parties and we also do. I think there's a lunch group that meets and occasionally we do dinner parties and that kind of thing.

John Dehlin [00:29:13] I probably should warn everybody, if you're going to start interacting with, let's just say non traditional or liberal or progressive or former Mormon, people are gonna have to get used to having alcohol around. Is that kind of a safe thing to say? And I'm just, I'm saying this as someone who still has never tried alcohol. It's not like I'm encouraging people to drink, but tell me what someone would expect if they were to go to the average event like at dinner. Are people ordering beer or wine and how's that working?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:29:44] I think it's an attitude of live and let live that I tend to use so that I can respect if people don't want to drink. But I really do expect that same respect in return to where I'm not going to get a judgmental look or some sort of, I don't know, a feeling that I can't drink in front of everyone or something. And so what's nice about it is that if we have book club and we have non drinkers and drinkers, what we've sort of settled on recently is to just sort of have it out. But we don't make a big deal out of it. If you want to have some, go for it. It's not a wild and crazy time because we're going to talk about the book, but it's definitely something that I think is important to say this is a valid choice, especially if we are a mixed belief group and we're going to respect where everyone's coming from.

James [00:30:35] Yeah. And I would say some of the meetings there's been alcohol and some of them there hasn't been. Just depending on whose home is hosted in and what people are comfortable with having in their home. And that's worked out just fine.

Scott [00:30:48] For example, sometimes if someone who's hosting their spouse is still an active believer in the church, they might not feel comfortable having alcohol in their house. So it just kind of depends on who.

John Dehlin [00:30:59] Okay, so people are flexible, they're supportive. Is there pressuring of like, ah, take a sip Take a sip.

Lauren [00:31:06] No, no, never.

John Dehlin [00:31:08] No, because I have to be honest, anywhere I go, anywhere I go, ex Mormon try and get me to drink. It's like a ritual. It's like we gotta get John Dehlind to take a drink. But you guys don't do that.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:31:20] No, we wouldn't do that to you either if you came.

James [00:31:23] And I haven't seen anyone drink to excess at all either. I should add that everyone's been very

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:31:29] respectful and it's a lot of sipping. Yeah, it's true. Okay.

John Dehlin [00:31:33] All right.

Scott [00:31:34] So John Dillon's like the Hugh B. Brown of liberal Mormon.

John Dehlin [00:31:39] Yeah. I have my glass of milk so that no one can be confused about what I'm drinking. No, I'm just kidding. Okay, cool. All right. So I guess we've covered the different types of activities and stuff. Are people having fun?

Scott [00:31:57] Yeah, I think one thing that really helps people to have fun is there's no one imposing any kind of structure on it. People just do what they want. So I wanted a book club, so I started it. And the women wanted a playgroup, so they started it. So anyone's free to set up any activity they want. And I think people are so, so starved for these sorts of interactions. Almost anything anyone plans, you're going to get lots of people to come to because there's so many people who just need that interaction.

John Dehlin [00:32:22] Has anybody tried to set up something spiritual like, you know, kind of like not to replace the church, but just to sort of feed people spiritually? Is that even been contemplated?

James [00:32:36] We've talked about having a meditation group, but it hasn't come to fruition yet. But we have talked about that.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:32:43] Well, and I also know that we have a few pagan minded people in the group and I've actually wondered if we would do something eventually. But that seems really private somehow. It hasn't really come up yet, but I've been curious to see if anyone wants to do something like that. I think that would be really neat to go sit under the moon and be in nature and that kind of thing. That would be fun.

John Dehlin [00:33:04] I probably framed it in a bad way because I bet you guys feel what's analogous to the spirit in your book clubs, right?

Lauren [00:33:11] Yeah, absolutely.

James [00:33:11] Absolutely.

Lauren [00:33:12] Yeah.

James [00:33:13] And that's something we talk about all the time. I mean, the first book club meeting we had, I was just on cloud nine the whole time. I mean, it was amazing to just talk to people, to open up to hear other people's stories. I mean, we usually start our book club meetings around 7 o' clock. And it's not infrequent that it's 11:30 at night and people are thinking, oh, I need to go home. But we end up talking out in the, you know, in front of the car for an hour. Just. It's. It's been absolutely fantastic.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:33:44] Yeah, there's something magical going on. I think that people have a testimony of the book club

John Dehlin [00:33:51] that's interesting. I wouldn't have thought that the book clubs would take off and be so wildly successful, but it sounds like that's the cornerstone of Phoenix.

James [00:34:03] Yeah, it really has been.

John Dehlin [00:34:05] So is there any leadership? Like, has somebody risen up to kind of be the, you know, the leader, the one that kind of gets things going? Is it become in any way hierarchical, or is it totally flat? Like, and to the. To that question about leadership, like, how do you generate momentum in critical mass versus things falling flat? Because I have to be honest, there are some cities like San Diego, Boise, you know, Atlanta, you know, there are others that I'm not remembering, but, you know, Salt Lake, where there's, like, this real active, vibrant community. And then there's others where we started the group up, and they're just kind of sputtering a little bit. And I'm wondering, has there been any leadership dynamics or structural dynamics that has led to your growth and sort of dynamic activity level?

Scott [00:35:05] I think part of it is just you need people who take the initiative to plan activities and just offer up, hey, let's do this or let's do that. And for all those places, if you're in a city where things aren't happening, I'd encourage just, if you feel that way, just set up a book club, set up an event, and invite people to come. And if you put yourself out there and open up your home, I bet people will come. And as far as leadership, I don't think they're like, you know, I started the book club, so I kind of will schedule the meetings every month. But Ryan Kendall's husband has also kind of taken the lead and helped manage things. And whenever someone has a complaint about how things are running or how we're picking the books, we always kind of change things up and respond to what people want and change it around. And for each sort of kind of event or whatever is going on, just whoever wants to take charge just takes charge. So I don't think there really is any kind of real leadership. It's just whoever wants to, wants to. Wants to take the initiative to do something. They run with it and do it, and people come.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:36:01] It's true. I mean, we've had James and Ryan, my husband, kind of running the book club for the most part, but it's more just the work to get everyone there. But really we've wanted to get to other people's houses, so we've had a lot of people that we've requested, can we host somewhere else? You know, that kind of thing, get to know other people. So we've really put the feelers out to that. And then I think also because James and Ryan were in charge of choosing the books at the beginning, then we finally got some polls out and found out what the group wanted to have. And so we've seen a shift, and it's been really great. And then on top of that, I noticed that there were a lot of moms that I knew because I knew some of the people who were in the group prior to it being formed. And so then we got the moms group going, and that was really great. And I just decided to email everyone and, you know, and it worked. So I don't really see myself as the leader of that group, but someone has to email and initiate, so I agree with James.

John Dehlin [00:36:59] All right. So non hierarchical, huh?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:37:03] Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty group oriented.

James [00:37:07] I think it helps that we have about. We have an abnormally high number of attorneys in the group as well, so there's never a shortage of people who want to just open their mouth and start talking.

Scott [00:37:21] Scott and I are both lawyers.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:37:24] Oh, it's true.

John Dehlin [00:37:25] And Ryan.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:37:26] And Ryan, my husband, decided to decline being on the podcast for that reason. Too many attorneys.

John Dehlin [00:37:33] Well, tell Ryan thanks for taking the bullet for the rest of us.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:37:36] He did. He was a good guy.

John Dehlin [00:37:38] Okay. All right, so this has been really helpful. So let's see, what do we talk about next? I guess just one second.

James [00:37:53] John, you asked about Critical Mass a minute ago.

John Dehlin [00:37:55] Yeah. Yeah. What are your numbers?

James [00:37:57] Like, we have 110 people on our Facebook group. I think the highest that I've seen at any single meeting was something like 50. And that was a ton of people. Too much to have at someone's home.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:38:11] I think that was before we split. Was that what it was?

James [00:38:14] Yeah, that was before we split. And that was great because the person who was hosting that week happened to have a huge house. But if you don't have a huge house, it's really hard to have that many people. And even if you have that many people, it's hard to have a meaningful discussion. So. So you don't need to have 110 people in your Facebook group or have 50 people show up. A group of anywhere between, I'd say like 5 or 6 maybe on the low end to like 20 or 30 is probably a really good range. And then just the bigger you get from that, you'd probably be able to have more spinoff groups. Or we've talked about having events on the east side or the west side of town. You know, we have lunch groups that are on each side of town.

John Dehlin [00:38:57] So it's time to divide the. It's time to divide the ward.

James [00:39:00] Yeah, exactly.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:39:01] I know. It's true. Well, it depends on what you're doing, too, because the book clubs tend to go better if they're smaller, which is why we split them. But then we had this party, and it was just a lot of people, you know, hanging out and talking, and it was. It was really great.

John Dehlin [00:39:14] So what's the idea? So tell. Tell us, in your opinion, the ideal size for a book club.

Scott [00:39:21] I think the ideal size is right around 15, probably because especially at our early book clubs, people didn't know each other as well, and everyone really wanted to be able to share their own personal story and talk things out. And so especially the early book clubs, we spent most of the time just introducing ourselves and talking about our own personal situations. When you get higher than 15, it just gets really hard for people to really feel comfortable sharing and have enough time for everyone to really feel like they had a chance to share and say what they wanted to say.

John Dehlin [00:39:48] And how do you diplomatically divide the book club without causing boundary disputes and hurt feelings?

Scott [00:39:56] We just set up two weekends in the month and find two different people to host, and people just kind of self select. Just a lot of times one weekend won't work for someone, so they go to the other weekend, or one house is closer. There's no real. We don't really force people to go to one or the other. In fact, if people want to, they can go to both.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:40:14] Well, and we have it set up as event pages as well, so you can see if one is really low or one is really full, and then you can kind of decide. So I think that helps with the self selection.

John Dehlin [00:40:22] Okay, so in the Phoenix Facebook group, you create Facebook events, right? And then when people get invited, they can confirm. And that's how. That's how you guys know how active the groups are. That's awesome.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:40:40] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:40:41] All right. All right, cool. Yeah. So it says right now you guys are up to 111 members.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:40:49] Yeah, 111.

John Dehlin [00:40:51] That's pretty amazing. I mean, there's got to be way more liberal, progressive, you know, inactive Mormon in Phoenix.

Scott [00:41:00] Right?

James [00:41:00] I mean, yeah, there's a lot. I ran into someone the other day, and I run into people in my line of work all the time. Who I find out they've gone through a faith crisis or they've gone inactive, or they are really into Mormon history or they're an apologist or that sort of thing, and they know absolutely nothing about Mormon stories. I mean, it's probably. There's probably 10 times as many people or 20 times as many people as we have in our group as potential people who would probably be interested in it.

John Dehlin [00:41:34] Isn't that crazy? Like, how do we penetrate more Mormon public consciousness?

Scott [00:41:42] You know, we need a MormonStories.org PR campaign. Start buying up ads.

James [00:41:48] Hi, I'm Scott, and I'm a Mormon Stories listener.

John Dehlin [00:41:51] No, we gotta have a better title than Mormon Stories Listener. But, yeah, I'll hire a PR firm right now.

Scott [00:41:59] A delinite. No, delinite.

John Dehlin [00:42:02] Definitely not. Yeah, no, I'll quit if you guys do that. I'll quit.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:42:06] We won't do it to you.

Personal Stories from Members

John Dehlin [00:42:09] Okay, so good numbers. All right. So didn't I think. Well, I'd be curious if you guys could share some of the more if you have a touching or poignant kind of story or two. I know that there was a move that happened kind of early on, but I'd be curious if any of you guys wanted to share maybe a story or two that illustrates what this group has meant to people kind of on a personal level, friendships or relationships or whatever, support for people. Just give us some typical classic Mormon stories of how this group has touched people's hearts personally.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:42:48] Well, was I the first one to move? Ryan and I? Was that the first time we did a move, everyone?

Scott [00:42:54] I think that was. Yeah.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:42:55] Yeah, because Ryan and I moved. We just moved down the street. We live in Tempe. And I really was struck by how moving it was to have people, because I think that is something that you lose when you leave the church. It's something that I was willing to pay because I was so unhappy being at church. I was willing to let go of the community aspect, especially because I found blogs and the blogger knackle and the Mormon Stories podcast. But when people physically showed up on a Saturday morning to help us move all of our stuff down the road, and people offered trailers and they offered to come, you know, with dollies and moving gloves and the whole thing, I mean, it really was moving. And they stayed for hours till we were good. To go. And then, I don't know, we got pizza and water. And it's Arizona, so it's hot, so we had water. But it was really meaningful to me to see everyone show up. And I would say there were at least four or five people that I didn't know that just showed up, and it was really great.

John Dehlin [00:43:59] That's cool.

James [00:44:00] I think we're Mormon, so that's what we do, right? We go and help people move.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:44:05] Yeah. There were a lot of jokes about it being the UN Elders Quorum or something like that, but there were women, so I don't know. We need a better name than that.

John Dehlin [00:44:16] Well, that's a great story. Any of you guys have any other stories?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:44:19] Well, I wanted to ask if Lauren could share when we were at the second book club. I'll let you go too, Scott, because I know you're starting to talk. Sorry I cut you off. But I still remember the look on Lauren's face when I met her for the first time. So I would hope that she would talk about that later.

John Dehlin [00:44:39] Go ahead, Lauren, and then we'll do Scott.

Lauren [00:44:41] Well, I just think for me, one of the most meaningful things, and this doesn't tie into the second one, but it is now, you know, after all these months, is being able to walk into a room where people, they know me and they're happy to see me again because we hadn't had that in so long, where people ask, how you doing? And they ask about my children and they know what's going on in my life and they care. I think that is something that you really lose when you don't have your church community anymore. And the second book club really was wonderful. I remember sitting there and it was huge. There were over 50 people. And as people started talking and especially the other women and I could just relate so personally to the things they were saying. It was a spiritual experience. It was a sacred time where I could connect. And I have to admit that I went through, and probably am still going through a phase where saying I'm a Mormon and connecting to my Mormon ness is still painful. And so to be around other people who are in that Mormon family who can accept where I am and who can love me is helping me to be able to say, yeah, I'm a Mormon and feel good about it again. So, you know, wherever we are, yeah, it's been very helpful and very healing so well.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:46:11] And I just. I remember that book club, and I remember we were going around 50 people getting short intros, and I remember you talking Lauren. And I remember some other women talking as well. And I was struck by just, I don't know, it was sort of this wide eyed realization that I am not alone. I could see it in so many faces that night. It was a really, it was a really neat meeting. That second book club over the summer, it was electric. I could feel the energy in the air or something and everyone was really getting that that night. I felt, it felt like everyone really got, hey, we're not alone. Look how many of us there are. We can barely fit in this house.

John Dehlin [00:46:52] Yeah, well, Lauren, thanks for sharing that. Those reflections in that story. It's interesting for those who would, who would sort of accuse these groups as being anti Mormon to hear you talk about helping you kind of reduce some of the anger you had and even get to a place where you're kind of comfortable identifying again as a Mormon, even culturally or even to a select group of people. That certainly didn't seem to make you hate the church or Mormon more.

Lauren [00:47:27] No, I don't think it was hate. It might not even have been anger. I think it was pain. And I think coming around, you know, and like I said, being able to interact with other Mormon who don't hate me, who don't see me as.

John Dehlin [00:47:44] Yeah. Dangerous or scary.

Lauren [00:47:46] Yeah, yeah. So that I can start to put my guard down and relax and reflect on, you know, my Mormon identity and the positive parts of it and try to reconnect to that. I think it's really helpful and necessary and something I might not have been able to do without the people in this group because, like, most of them are still connected, active in the church, participating or have a spouse. And so even, you know, people that go to church every Sunday who aren't afraid of me, who will talk to me and listen to me, has been just wonderful.

John Dehlin [00:48:22] Yeah. I mean, we can sort of pile on Boyd K. Packer for his declaration that intellectuals, feminists and homosexuals were kind of the great enemies of the church. But the truth is intellectuals sort of are marginalized in Mormonism today. The church just hasn't figured out what to do with us. And. And so in many cases, we do end up feeling unwanted even as active members. And so because the church hasn't figured out what to do with us yet, we're Mormon. We're going to form a community where we can feel accepted and loved. So, Scott, were you going to, or were you going to jump in with something?

James [00:49:08] Sure, sure. I was just going to say that I have had this same or similar experience happen on two separate occasions where I've met someone through these communities and found out that they're going through something really difficult in their marriage. And, you know, they've got questions about church or they're. They're just struggling and they're going through a lot of pain. And because without getting to my personal story too much, I've met with those people and I've been able to talk, talk to them. And, you know, to those who would say that this group would be anti Mormon, I would just say that everyone that I've talked to who's been in that situation, my encouragement is keep going to church and keep, you know, doing the things that you've been doing your whole life and don't change things just because you've come on this new knowledge all of a sudden. And especially if it's a problem in your marriage, you need to go, you know, anything you do, you need to go really slow. And I think just connecting with people one on one in a more private setting has been really helpful. And it's been rewarding to me to make a new friend and to be able to say, hey, I'm here for you and you're here for me, and let's help each other get through this.

John Dehlin [00:50:29] And on the flip side, I'm guessing that, you know, those who have left the church would be uncomfortable if they feel like what these groups are about is convincing people to stay in the church.

James [00:50:41] Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's not what it's about. But for someone who's in a really difficult situation like that and their wife is kicking them out of the house or telling them that their marriage is over and that sort of thing, a lot of these people just don't have any. They don't know where to go and they don't know what to do. And just having a friend there to say, take a deep breath, go slow, nothing needs to change overnight, that can be, you know, that can be the world to them.

John Dehlin [00:51:15] Gotcha. Were you going to say something, Kendall?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:51:19] Yeah, I was just going to say that I've been constantly blown away, not only by the connections that we've made in the group. You know, finding ward member, a family member that you didn't know was on the same page. But things like what Scott and Lauren are talking about I think really strikes a chord and can strike a chord with anyone, whether they're a believer or not, especially if they're listening and might think that, you know, we're angry or we've all left or we're all apostates or whatever it might be, because we are here for each other in a situation that can be impossible for some people. I've seen some of our members put in situations that are pretty awful by their family, by their spouse. They've had to make really awful decisions about sacrificing personal integrity to keep families together and that kind of thing. And so to have a support community, I think book club is fun, and the parent, you know, the mom group is fun. But for me, the most meaningful moments are when I can tell that we're really making a difference for. For someone who wouldn't have had a group otherwise, they would have been lost.

James [00:52:27] Right.

Scott [00:52:30] I just wanted to say, just on a personal level, I really felt I was staggering at church. I was really unhappy just with the way my spiritual life was going. I felt like there was nowhere I could go to just talk about what I was thinking about or what I was interested in or what was really concerned to me. And my wife has mentioned that she's noticed that I just seem like a lot happier, a lot happier person since the group started. I just. I feel like I have an emotional outlet for a place to talk about what I want to talk about and hear people and have those discussions that I can't have anywhere else. And that's been a really meaningful thing for me.

John Dehlin [00:53:06] Got it. Okay. So the focus isn't to get people out of the church, and the focus isn't to keep people in the church. What would you guys describe as the focus? Just to summarize,

Looking Ahead and Closing Reflections

Scott [00:53:23] Just to bring people

John Dehlin [00:53:24] together and to kind of meet people where they are and to help them in whatever way they need help.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:53:31] Yeah, I think so. I think that we're a bit. A bit of a Buddhist group. We say that it is what it is a lot of times, and we just let people be where they are. We're just there.

John Dehlin [00:53:45] Beautiful.

Lauren [00:53:46] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:53:48] Well, I hear that there's an exciting event that's being planned in the future. Is that true? That is.

James [00:53:56] I'm happy to announce the Phoenix Region Mormon Stories Conference is going to be February 2012 on February 18th and 19th.

John Dehlin [00:54:08] And that's in Phoenix. And Phoenix is not so bad in February, is that right?

Scott [00:54:12] No.

James [00:54:12] The weather will be beautiful. It'll be a good time for golf and being outdoors, and it'll be wonderful. So if you're in the Midwest and freezing under snow and ice, book your plane tickets out to Phoenix for February.

John Dehlin [00:54:26] All right. And you guys don't have any sneak previews yet on where or what's gonna. What the content's gonna be. I'm guessing it's early for that.

James [00:54:33] It's a little bit early for that. We've got our musical talent lined up. A fabulous performer named Lincoln Wright is going to be helping us out, but other than that, it's to be announced.

John Dehlin [00:54:46] Okay. All right. But it's in the works.

James [00:54:49] Absolutely. We're on it.

John Dehlin [00:54:52] All right. Well, this has been so wonderful. Is there anything you guys want to add or talk about or close with before we kind of sign off? Anything that we've missed or should have covered?

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:55:05] I would just like to.

James [00:55:06] Oh, go ahead, Lauren.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:55:08] No, that's Kendall. Go ahead, Scott. Actually, I'll talk after you.

James [00:55:11] No, go ahead.

Kendahl (Phoenix Mormon Stories Support Community) [00:55:12] Okay. I'll just. Go ahead. I think that what I have noticed, and this is not a criticism at all of our group, I think that it's just in a natural progression. I have noticed that it's a lot of people, I would say, in their 30s or 40s, and the majority are married. And part of that is because that's how the church looks. And so if we are people who are questioning, of course that's going to be kind of how the lines fall. But I think what I would like to see in our group and in other groups, especially, just depending on where they are, if the demographics look different, is to find ways for outreach for single members, for LGBT people who have left or who, you know, are dealing with family issues. I know that we've had that come up once or twice in our group, and I just am constantly looking for ways to be more aware of, perhaps the way that I'm not thinking about accommodating them for no reason, for no malicious reason, but just because I'm not aware. And so I'm constantly looking for opportunities to practice equality in all of its forms. And I think that because we come from a church where some argue that there's homophobia that runs rampant, that there's sexism, that there's sort of a discrimination against single people where they don't have as much of a voice, I think that these support communities can be a place where not only we all get to practice, that since we maybe didn't have the best examples or the most practice being a stand for equality, but also that it can be a place where people can come where they haven't been able to have a voice before, I think that we're primed to be the kind of place where that kind of growth can happen.

John Dehlin [00:56:56] Nice.

James [00:56:58] I would just like to make a call to action for people. You can make a difference, even if it's in a small way. I know that sounds cheesy, but it's totally true. You know, think of. I think of people like John Dehlin who have done so much for me and have helped me in so many ways and spent so many hours working on something that has benefited my life. And if I can show up to something a couple times a month and help somebody else out, that's a small way to pay it forward. And if there's 10,000 Mormon Stories listeners out there, I hope there's 10,000 people out there that are looking for someone in their community that they can help or empathize with or get to know and build something on a local level rather than just having it be on the Internet and be anonymous.

Scott [00:57:48] Yeah, I just wanted to say if. If you're feeling like you're struggling or you're alone, go to the group in your area and put yourself out there. Just invite people to go do something. Invite people to lunch. You'll be surprised at how many people want to meet you and want to hang out with you and hear what you have to say and give you a place to talk, talk through what you're going through.

John Dehlin [00:58:06] All right, Lauren, bring us home.

Lauren [00:58:08] Yeah, well, I just reiterate the same thing. Reach out. I know for me, the big difference came when it wasn't just typing on a computer. It was real people and so real stories and connection and it has made all the difference in the last year of my life. So, yeah, put yourself out there.

John Dehlin [00:58:27] All right, guys. Well, this has been so wonderful. And this will probably be the shortest Mormon Stories episode ever at an hour and 15 minutes.

James [00:58:37] You didn't mention this was part one of our eight part series, meeting the Phoenix.

John Dehlin [00:58:45] That's great. All right, so again, let me thank James, Scott, Kendall, and Lauren for coming on Mormon Stories. Please. This is a shout out to all our Mormon Stories homies in the Phoenix area. Thank you guys all for the wonderful things you're doing. And I guess I'll close by inviting everyone to go up to MormonStories.org click on the support Communities tab. If there's a community near you, click on it and join it and start some action. Join the action or create some action. If there's not a group near you, please email us@mormustories.org and let us know and we'll create the group for you. If you guys want to have conferences in your area where some of us fly out and we do really fun things. We've had conferences In Atlanta, Washington, D.C. new York, Salt Lake City, San Diego. We've done a little few little things in Los Angeles. I forget where else we've done it, but we've had a lot of cool things. We've got other things coming. So please just kind of get creative and do fun things. And I guess I'll end by just thanking you guys again for coming on Mormon Stories.

Lauren [01:00:02] Thanks, John.

Scott [01:00:03] Thanks John.

John Dehlin [01:00:04] Thank you.

James [01:00:04] It's an honor.

John Dehlin [01:00:05] Keep up the good work. Thank you for joining us today on Mormon Stories. Music today was provided by the Saber Rattlers. Check them out@sabre-rattlers.com the Mormon Stories logo was generously donated by StudioCase.com thanks for listening.

Scott [01:00:24] Come come ye saints no toil nor labor fear but with joy wend your way though hard to you this journey may appear Grace shall be as your day Tis better far for us to to strive our useless cares from us to drive do the San Jo

James [01:01:07] your

Scott [01:01:08] hearts will swell oh, all is well all is well. Why should we mourn? I think our lot is hard Tis not so all is right why should we think to earn a great reward if we now shun the fight Good up your lo fresh courage take Our God will never us for sake soon we'll have tail to tell oh, all is well all is is well oh, all is well all is well. Sam. And should we die before our journey is through Happy day All is well we that are free from toil and sorrow too with the just we shall dwell but if our lives are spared again to see the sa the rest obtain I will make this chorus well oh, all is well all is well all is well all is well all is well well oh, is well. All is well all is. Sa.

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