A few weeks ago, Mormon Bishop Nick Jones (Mississippi) took the LDS church by storm by resigning his position as bishop from the pulpit (with the video being subsequently shared on TikTok and YouTube). Please join us for Nick and Amanda’s (his wife’s) story. We welcome your questions and comments.
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Show Notes:
- Reddit Post – Bishop resigns from the pulpit
- Bewilder Brewing, Salt Lake City
- LDS Discussions
- Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball
- Gospel Topics Essays
- Ward Radio on Nick’s resignation
- FLOODLIT.org
- Mormon.ish Podcast
- Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fiona Givens
- No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie
- Planted by Patrick Mason
- Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman
- Nick’s Tik Tok – Bishops_storehouse
- Mormon Bishop resigns over the pulpit
- Mormon Newscast – Mormon Bishop Resigns over pulpit
Wonderful episode! The Mormon church should have Nick and Amanda write the handbook, they are brilliant. Just a word about shame and guilt. I never really got around to much sinning until I was in my twenties (late bloomer!). I never could conjurevup a feeling of guilt for “sinning.” But I felt severe shame for NOT feeling shame. I felt something must be so wrong with me because obviously I was bad! I had sex before marriage! And I couldn’t feel bad or dirty. So I must be a terrible probably mentally ill psychopathic person. Weird, the way we twist something normal into something so shameful, even when instinct says it’s not so. The feeling still hits me, over 40 years later. Shame. Because I didn’t feel shame.
Outstanding episode. Yes…courageous couple. Wishing so much positivity to your family!
Great episode I really relate to Amanda’s story. I was abused and I understand those feelings of shame. I married a never mo who was from Iran. So when I went back to church after that I struggled so much I had an Utah bishop who wouldn’t give a calling because I did not go on a mission . My husband eventually joined but saw immediately that the church was all about the money. When I finally went to him ready to leave the church he was thrilled so luckily we left together. I am so much happier now but sad it took me to 55 years old to find my peace . Leaving is also very lonely.
One of your best interviews
Nick & Amanda,
Thank you for sharing and for your courage, honesty & integrity. Principles the church preaches but its top leadership doesn’t practice. As a RM, married-in-the-temple member, I was blinded to that fact for 40 yrs until my shelf broke and I stepped away. Your stories are heart wrenching, raw, real and sadly not uncommon. My grandfather was a leader in the church and a pedophile. He abused me, some of my cousins, and who knows how many others. (Police records show he didn’t only target family members.) He served as a bishop prior to being officially convicted and put on the sex-offender registry. I shudder to think about what took place in the worthiness interviews he conducted as a bishop. Even after the truth came out and the law was involved, my grandfather was guided through the “repentance” process and then called on a couples mission. His wife was also called to be a scout leader. She had scouts come to their home when the church knew of her husbands past. I couldn’t wrap my head around how either of those things could happen, but they did. Your words regarding how the church approaches and deals with pedophiles struck a chord with me as I’ve also found that the church’s goals don’t seem to be to protect children, but themselves. Someone once told me that priesthood protects priesthood so we shouldn’t be surprised when experiences like yours or mine happen and are permitted to keep happening. It’s too bad that a man who won’t send an apology letter to his x-wife can be kept from the celestial kingdom, men like Sam Young are excommunicated, but the pedophiles can easily find forgiveness, hold a temple recommend and be sent on a mission!
So it was interesting, he is in pain and processing. But incorrect on a number of things. There is no power in us… There is power in Christ. Christianity didn’t invent guilt, certain churches did that. We left the LDS church Easter of 2023 a few years after seeing an LDS apostle worship Shiva in 2017 and 2021 in India on video. As you leave there is pain, anger, frustration etc.
I would love to see that video. Shiva and Shakti have become beautiful representations of divine masculine and feminine to me. Can you direct me to that video, please?
Excellent podcast nick – thanks for sharing .
Enlightening episode, and I appreciate the courage the Jones family had to make the break. One word of caution: I don’t have statistics, but I don’t think there is an epidemic of bishops and stake presidents leaving the church. Yes, I know personally of two men in leadership positions who have withdrawn from the Mormon Church; but two or three or even a dozen men leaving the Church does not constitute an epidemic. The Jones’s story was powerful as were the stories from the other bishops on the later panel. But these are individual experiences, and they may or may not reflect a trend. When compared to the number of early Mormon apostles and Saints who left the church in the 19th century, the current exodus seems significant but minor.
Just felt to comment on one thing. Regarding people who had been excommunicated for a transgression and then later had come back and been baptized again, only to have to rehash every detail of the past before having temple blessings restored. (Why a second baptism is required but temple blessings are restored administratively rather than through a repeat of the endowment is a whole other subject.) But why should they have to dredge up all the shame and guilt of something for which they’ve supposedly received forgiveness? Is that rebaptism not effective for remission of sin? Adult converts are not asked to give details of everything that happened before their baptism in order to qualify for a recommend. It seems to be a shaming mechanism to reassert and reaffirm control and it hypocritically denies the efficacy of baptism and the Atonement.
Thank you for the truth. I am so happy for your family! Going through this myself! Needed this story!
Thank you for a most informative issue. As a former Bishop, I can relate closely to many of the points.
Blessings Nick, Amanda and family. Yours spirits double what you speak in truth to power and power in the truth.
Nick you are absolutely correct the focus should be on the Christ. Your focus on the needs of the members being perfect as they are has to be the most important message any human being could recieved.
This story was a homerun hit. The message is clear. You are good enough. You are all that you need to be. You are loved.
Blessing for reminding me and everyone we are all good enough.
Korihor at his finest…
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! So much for your courage, your grace, for being your true selves. It took me many many years to untangle my feelings for the church. I was a single parent of two beautiful girls who gained so many wonderful experiences in the church growing up. But for me, oh the judgement. Why was I single? Why was I pursuing university degrees, why wasn’t I married? Bishops and stake presidents often commented on my singleness and I stood out because I wouldn’t, could not completely conform. I served in all capacities, YW president, RS presidency, teacher, you name it. I paid tithing I couldn’t afford and was exhausted from service, working fulltime, school, parenting. It was teaching seminary that broke my shelf. I realized that I was teaching these young souls that there is only one way to love and honour God and I just wanted to shut the door and gather them all together and say, ‘this isn’t the only way”! That was it for me. This podcast and these conversations have helped me so much. Thank you! You are rock stars, all of you. Enjoy your new life, it will look so different 6 months, a year, 5 years from now. Life is good.
I had anticipated hearing how their parents and siblings reacted to the resignation video and leaving the church. I feel it was alluded to but then never circled back to. So curious if both sets of parents are still TBM and how they feel about all this.
This interview makes me very glad I left the church.
Watching you from Portugal
Great episode. I always wondered why sinners, who need the atonement and renew their baptism covenants, are forbidden to take the sacrament. I know the BOM says don’t let someone take it unworthily, but even Christ did not condemn the woman taken in adultery. And yes, not taking the sacrament is all about shame.
Quick story about shame and sinning. A young man in my unit did not get the aaronic priesthood, nor did he bless or pass the sacrament because he had a digital addiction. As the YM president, I spoke with the bishop several times about this (said bishop was the previous YM pres and a good friend of mine) and let him know that this young man’s punishment was not going to point him to Christ and keep him in the church. I was reminded that I was not the bishop, and was soon released from my calling as YM president.
True to my prediction, the young man stopped attending as soon as he turned 18, never went on a mission, etc.