John Dehlin

Introduction and Episode Overview

[00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome to a special edition of Mormon Stories podcast. I'm your host, John Dehlin. It is February 18, 2025, and I am super excited to announce a special project that I thought about this morning and that I want to share with all of you and ask for your support.

[00:00:23] So this morning I was thinking a lot about, you know, perceptions that many have that the Mormon Church has or hasn't been honest or transparent or truthful in its history. In. In discussing its, let's just say, more problematic aspects of its history. I also am continually approached about, you know, the scenario of, like, my bishop, you know, I've, I've stepped away from the church and my bishop wants to know, you know, what's going on, or my stake president wants to know what's going on, or my elders quorum president or relief study president wants to know what's going on, or my parents or my siblings want to know what's going on, or, you know, sometimes the Mormon Church stake presidencies are bringing area authorities or general authorities into, you know, wards and stakes and inviting more affluent or influential members who have fallen away from the church to meet with area authorities or general authorities or other top church leaders with the intent of trying to understand why they've left the church, you know, and, you know, what it would take to get him back.

[00:01:47] And oftentimes people email me very regularly. They email me and say, john, I'm meeting with an area authority, or I'm meeting with the general authority, or I'm meeting with the church's expert in church history because they're trying to get me back.

[00:01:59] Are, you know, what should I say? You know, how can we have a conversation? So for all those types of scenarios, I've come up with a project that I want to share with you. And the project is called the LDS Church History Transparency Quiz. Now, I'll admit at the outset that for those of you who have questioned and or lost faith in the Mormon Church, that history is just one of many aspects that would cause someone to leave.

[00:02:30] People leave for social reasons, for issues around women, around LGBT issues, around being abused. Within a church context, there's so many, you know, different reasons. They get bored, they lose interest, they convert to other religions. There are so many reasons why people might lose their faith, and history is just one of many reasons. But I do think that especially for the Mormon stories crowd, and I think for the, at least for the developed world overall, the Mormon Church has traditionally had a problem with how it's taught its history.

[00:03:07] And, you know, potentially has been involved in editing, censoring, or whitewashing its history, you know, because it's embarrassed. So, anyway, I've put together a very short, simple 15 question survey that I want everyone who listens to this podcast to please consider filling out. It should only take five minutes. But even more importantly, I'm inviting everyone who listens to this podcast to invite ward members, family members, church leaders especially, to fill out this survey, and more importantly than that, to have a conversation with you about the topics mentioned in this survey.

[00:03:59] I think that that will facilitate a greater awareness about truthful Mormon Church history, and I think that it will also help facilitate healthy conversations about the Mormon Church's transparency or lack of transparency that I think will be beneficial for everyone involved. I think the Mormon Church would agree in 2025 that the more the world knows the truth about Mormon Church history, the better. And I think people who've left the church over concerns about a lack of transparency would also agree that the more that the world knows the truth about Mormon Church history, the better.

[00:04:44] So I'm going to go through this survey with everyone now. Feel free to open up. I put a link to this survey in the description. Feel free to open up the survey and to complete it yourself. And then afterwards, what I'm going to ask people to do is share it with as many people as they want and have as many meaningful discussions as they possibly can with as many people as they're able to. And, and then email us@mormonstoriesgmail.com to let us know how those conversations went.

[00:05:25] We are going to be sharing monetary prize with, you know, some of the choicest, most interesting or impactful responses that we get. And at the end of the survey, we're giving people the option of volunteering to come on Mormon Stories podcast and discuss their experiences. Sharing this survey, you know, with bishops, with stake presidents, with parents, with former mission presidents, with general authorities, area authorities or church leaders. And the Holy Grail would be for, let's just say, a non believer and a believer to both come on Mormon Stories or maybe multiple believers and non believers, or just believers to come on Mormon Stories and honestly discuss these questions openly and transparency transparently on Mormon Stories Podcast and to share those experiences with the world.

[00:06:24] So that's kind of what this project is about. We're also considering a research, sort of a randomized clinical distribution of this survey that could be used for academic purposes. We'll talk about that at the end of this episode if you're interested in helping out with that. As well, we'll start with the snowball sample. That's, that's a convenience Internet sample, but we'll move to a random distribution that could be more scientific.

[00:06:57] With your support, we'll talk about at the end. Anyway, let's go ahead. And if you want pull up, go ahead, like in a separate window, click on the link to the survey. The survey can be found@mormonstories.org. MormonStories.org oh, my gosh. I'm, I'm pulling up now. History survey. Okay, so if you want to get a copy of the survey, go to mormonstories.org/history survey. And a link to the survey is included on, on the post.

How to Access and Take the Survey

[00:07:42] So again, go ahead and pull up or, or in the description here on YouTube or in the description on Facebook. So if you want with me, along with me, go ahead and pull up a copy of this survey and let's, let's take it together and, or just listen to these questions and just make a mental note of whether what your answers to this survey would be and you can fill it out later. For those of you who've never been Mormon, I think you might find this really interesting because it'll give you a sense for some of the main concerns that many of us have around what we were and weren't taught in the church.

[00:08:22] Okay, so go ahead and pull this up. Pull it up in a separate window, and let's do this together. So the first field is a valid email address. So go ahead and fill that in. That's so that we can give you your cash prize or contact you about potentially sharing your responses or coming on Mormon Stories podcast to discuss your experiences. The second, the second question is your age. We're doing that because we're super interested in just kind of knowing whether some of these differences change based on cohort.

[00:09:07] So fill in your age, if you don't mind. By the way, you can use this form both to fill information out for yourself, but also if you want to interview your mom or your dad or your bishop or your siblings or whoever, you can fill this form out for other people as well.

[00:09:24] All right, so age of respondent. Put that in there. And then number of years that the respondent was or has been a member of record. So if you've been a member of the church your whole life, it's probably your age. If you resigned or were excommunicated at some point, you would subtract out the number of years you weren't a member of record. That's to get, get a sense Again, for, you know, understanding the data a little bit more deeply. Okay, the next question we have is how would you best describe your current LDS beliefs? And we've got three basic options there. I know that there are lots of shades of belief, but the options are orthodox or traditional believer in core LDS doctorate of theology.

Demographic Questions on Belief and Attendance

[00:10:12] That's kind of your bread and butter, or orthodox believing church member. The second is kind of a semi believer in core LDS doctrine and theology. Think of that as kind of more liberal or progressive members. Jack Mormons, you know, buffet Mormons. It's a broad category, but that's your second option. And then the third option is sort of a overall non believer in core LDS doctrine and theology. Okay, so that's to just show kind of where you or the respondents are on their beliefs. The next question is which option best describes your current.

[00:10:50] I'm going to go ahead and fill this out. I was a member of record for 45 years. I am 55 years old. My email. All right, the next question is which option best describes your current LDS Church attendance?

[00:11:09] Every week or almost every week, which would be, let's just say, three times or more per month on average. The second is about half the time, which would be one to two times per month. The third option would be occasionally, let's just say a few times a year. And then the last option would be rarely or never. That would be you never attend, or maybe you only attend when invited to a missionary farewell or baby blessing. Other than that, you really just don't go.

[00:11:33] Okay, so that's church attendance. And the next one is your membership status. Either a current LDS Church member of record or a former LDS Church member of record, meaning you either resigned or were excommunicated. And that would be my. That would be my particular option. All right, so here are the main questions, and I hope you guys enjoyed these questions. So question number one. During your time as an LDS Church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were wanting to understand the church's overall transparency not just to its membership, but to.

Quiz Questions on Joseph Smith's Criminal Trial

[00:12:16] To investigators and converts as well? Whether or not investigators and members were broadly taught that Joseph Smith was brought to a criminal trial in 1826 as a treasure digger slash scryer, slash glass looker? For all these questions, we have a reference. So you can actually click on the reference and see what the Mormon Church from its own website is willing to admit in 20, you know, 25 about this question.

[00:12:52] So the references are there as talking points when you discuss these with, with believing or non believing Members. And then you answer, either yes, most investigators and members were told about Joseph Smith's 1826 treasure digging trial, or in my case, I'll say no. It's my opinion that most, I certainly was not. And most investigators and members were not told about Joseph Smith's 1826 treasure digging trial. Now, of course, you know this, this question speaks to, you know, a pretty important experience that Joseph had prior to starting the church that might, you know, that might some people might find relevant regarding his credibility as someone to start a church.

[00:13:39] So that's the first question. If you answered yes, meaning that you believe that most investigators or members are or were informed about Joseph Smith's 1826 treasure digging trial, just explain sort of what year and settings you think this information was broadly taught to investigators and members. Because that, that wouldn't be my understanding or experience. But if you have different experiences, I'm super curious to learn about those. All right, question number two. During your time as a church member, which description below most accurately reflects what you other church members and investigators who were most often taught regarding the translation of the Book of Mormon With Oliver Cowdery.

Quiz Questions on Book of Mormon Translation

[00:14:26] So this is Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery translating the Book of Mormon. And there's two options. Either option one, the church generally taught that the golden plates were completely out of Joseph Smith's sight while he was translating the Book of Mormon and that he was using a stone placed in a hat for the translation.

[00:14:47] So if that's what you think the church has generally taught the members, you and investigators, click that. Or if you feel the second option is more appropriate, which is the church generally taught that the golden plates were sitting on the table with Joseph Smith while he was translating the urimum using the urim and thummim, or breastplate with spectacles. Choose that option.

[00:15:11] And again, if you chose that first option, which is I, I think his history shows that's the more accurate view, that the plates weren't in the room and that Joseph is using a stone placed in a hat. If you believe that, that the general membership and investigators were taught that version, again, just share maybe the year and the settings for when and how this information or any evidence you have that this more factual account was taught to investigators or members.

Quiz Questions on Joseph Smith's Polygamy

[00:15:47] All right, the third question. During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly taught that the Book of Mormon witnessed. David Whitmer. So there's three witnesses to the Book of Mormon. Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harrison, David Whitmer.

[00:16:05] Was it your experience that investigators and members and you were taught that. That David Whitmer denied that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery ever received the Melchizedek priesthood from Peter, James and John, and instead that the Melchizedek priesthood was invented after the fact?

[00:16:24] So if you believe that the church generally taught that David Whitmer denied that Joseph and Oliver received the Melchizedek priesthood, then click the first option. Yes, if you. If you do not believe that, and instead you, you and investigators and members were not made aware that one of the key three witnesses to the Book of Mormon later denied that Joseph and Oliver ever received the Melchizedek priesthood by Peter, James and John? Click no to that one. And again, if you say yes, please explain the years and the settings where you believe that information was taught and any evidence that you have that that information was taught to, you know, investigators and members.

[00:17:10] I would love to see any information or even accounts about that. Okay, the next question, question number four. During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly and explicitly taught that Joseph smith married over 30 women in his lifetime, including girls as young as 14, mother, daughter pairs, sister pairs, and over 10 women who were already married at the time Joseph Smith was sealed to them? If, if you believe that that's what the church has generally taught its members and its investigators, then please click yes on that first option.

[00:17:55] If that's not what you were taught and not what you believe the members and investigators were taught about Joseph Smith's polygamy, then say no. And again, if you say yes, I want to hear all the details you can share about that experience or that perspective. So you can write that here. All right, A second question about Joseph Smith's polygamy. This is question number five.

[00:18:23] During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly taught that Joseph Smith hid his first 22 or so polygamous marriages from his first wife, Emma, and that his first wife, Emma was sealed to Joseph after at least 22 other women? Because obviously, if Joseph Smith was, you know, a prophet of God, if he was operating under God's direction, you know, would. Would he have lied to his wife about his polygamy, hidden it from her, and would God have been okay with him performing 22 secret plural marriages behind his wife's back before he ever let Emma know about those polygamous ceilings, let alone got actually sealed to Emma?

[00:19:20] So if yes, you were taught about Joseph hiding these polygamous Marriages from Emma and that. That he was sealed to 22 women before he was sealed to his first wife, Emma. Click yes. And if, like me, the answer is no, that you were not taught these things and that investigators, too, were not taught these things, go ahead and select no.

[00:19:46] And again, if you're saying yes to that, I want to hear all the evidence and information you can about these things being taught. Now, obviously, these two questions talk about the credibility of Joseph Smith. Was he potentially inappropriate in his polygamous advances? Was it directed by God? Was it not directed by God? Was it some other reason that's important?

[00:20:15] Obviously, if we go back to the Melchizedek priesthood question, you know, the question there is, wouldn't one of Joseph Smith's three witnesses to the Book of Mormon have known about the Melchizedek priesthood in those first years of the church?

[00:20:31] If he was one of the founding witnesses to the Book of Mormon, and if he's credible, if he's a credible witness to the Book of Mormon, is his testimony later that Peter, James and John never appeared to Joseph and Oliver, is that testimony credible, too? Or are we going to say that his testimony about the Book of Mormon is credible, but his later testimony about the Melchizedek priesthood and the three witnesses is not credible?

[00:21:02] And also, you know, going back to the question of, you know, the stone in the hat and the translation, you know, if the golden plates weren't anywhere in the room, and if Joseph Smith used the stone in the hat, which was the same, you know, objects that he used to find buried treasure that he was, you know, tried in court for, you know, violating the law with, why were the plates even preserved and made if they weren't used in the translation? And why was Joseph Smith using the instruments for, you know, illegal fraud and scrying and, and peeping and treasure digging, why was he using those to translate the Book of Mormon?

[00:21:48] And then more importantly, why wasn't any of this ever shared with you or with investigators? Wouldn't that have been something worth knowing? So I went back a little bit just to make sure we understand why these questions might be relevant or credible. A lot of these questions just have to do with the credibility of the founding church narrative. And then a lot of it has to do with whether the church just generally misled or deceived its members. Okay, let's go to question number six.

Quiz Questions on First Vision and Priesthood History

[00:22:19] During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members and you were broadly taught, you know, by the church, that Joseph Smith changed his account of who appeared to him during his first vision several times from a single personage or the lord in his 1832 account, for example.

[00:22:45] And this was while there's really good evidence that Joseph believed that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all one, whether it's from the Lectures on Faith or the Book of Mormon itself or his own accounts, it's pretty clear that at 1832, Joseph believed that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were one.

[00:23:03] And so that's reflected in his 1832 account. And then were you taught that not only did that previous account exist, but then the 1838 account was different? And in that account, Joseph's beliefs changed and his account of the first vision changed to not just be the Lord or Jesus, but instead, now a second personage appears. It's now Jesus and God the Father who appeared. And that that recounting or changing of the story corresponded with Joseph's own change of beliefs regarding the Godhead and also changes he made to the Book of Mormon reflecting those changing beliefs. Which then begs the question, or, you know, results in the question, why would Joseph, you know, wouldn't he have gotten the story right the first time with such major visitations?

[00:23:56] Why would he change it? Why would it change along with his changing doctrine or views of deity? And then why would he need to edit the Book of Mormon at all? And then, most importantly, why is the Church, if the Church has hid this from us, why. Why did it hide this information from us? So if yes, you believe that members and investigators were broadly taught that Joseph Smith changed his first vision accounts drastically according to his evolving views on deity, click yes. And if no, click that option. That's the option that feels true to me. And then, of course, if you're clicking yes, I want to hear all the evidence, stories, accounts, details about who taught you that and when, and who was teaching that to members and investigators broadly and when.

[00:24:49] I just want to hear all those. Those details. All right, question number seven. During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly taught that Joseph Smith allowed several black men to receive the priesthood before Joseph Smith died? Brigham Young came around and then took the privilege away. Were you taught that you know, Elijah, Abel or others, who black men received the priesthood when Joseph Smith was alive? And if so, then click yes, I was. I, and members generally and investigators were all broadly taught that Joseph Smith allowed black men to receive the priesthood before Brigham Young took that privilege away.

[00:25:39] Or if you're like me, you were not taught and Your experience was that members of investigators were not broadly taught that Joseph Smith allowed black men to receive the priesthood before Brigham Young took that privilege away. Indicate likewise.

[00:25:55] Again, if you answer yes, please give me all the details you can about who, when, where these things were taught broadly to you and broadly. And of course, this question speaks to, you know, not only why would God, if God was going to, you know, why would God ban black people from the priesthood and also from temple blessings, men and women, black men and women from the temple, why not only why would he ban black people from priesthood and temple privileges, why would he first give them priesthood privileges and then take it away and teach for 150 years that the curse of Cain and no drop of Cain's blood can be in somebody receiving the priesthood?

[00:26:41] Why would that be first granted, then taken away for 150 plus years and then restored? Why? And then more importantly, why weren't we all taught about, you know, Joseph Smith allowing black men to receive the priesthood? You know, so anyway, these are good questions to discuss with your bishop, with your stake president, with a general authority and area authority, with f friends and family.

[00:27:11] You know, maybe this could lead to important discussions. And of course, again, I have a reference here on all these questions so you can read up what the church in 2025 is itself willing to admit. All right, just a few more questions to go. Y' all are doing great. And then I'm going to answer your questions or your comments. I do want to ask everyone to please, like this episode on YouTube or Facebook, please consider sharing it. Please hit the like button. Please comment.

[00:27:41] That would be fantastic. All right, question number eight. During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly taught that Joseph Smith was a member of the Masonic Lodge during his time in Nauvoo and that a significant percentage of the LDS Church temple ceremony, the signs, tokens, penalties and the symbology like the the compass and the square, are all borrowed from the Masonic Lodge ceremony. If you believe that you and members and investigators were all broadly taught that Joseph Smith borrowed a lot of the temple ceremony from the Masons, click yes. And if that wasn't your experience, click no.

[00:28:27] If you click yes. I want to hear all the details about when, where, who, how, when you were taught these things. Of course, this question speaks to, you know, is the Mormon Temple ceremony revealed by God? Was it inspired? If it was, why was so much of it grabbed from the Masonic Temple ceremony, which we know is a medieval ceremony? It did not originate, you know, you know, with the Israelites before Jesus was born, we now know for a fact that's not what happened. But if it was revealed and revelation by God, why has it been changed? And why were so many Masonic relics taken out of the ceremony over time?

[00:29:10] And why are some still there? Why were some taken out but some left in? Was it revelation, was it not? Why the Masonic Lodge? What stuff was taken out? You know, this is a good conversation to have with people.

[00:29:25] How do we know it's inspired now? Shouldn't have Brigham or Joseph or whoever got the ceremony right the first time, you know, when they received it? Okay, that's question eight. Question nine is, during your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly taught that the Egyptian scrolls that Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon to have been translated by modern Egyptologists, that Joseph Smith's translation has been deemed to be completely false by Egyptologists, and that the name Abraham does not appear anywhere in the scrolls at all? So it's not a story of Abraham. In fact, it's not about Abraham at all.

Quiz Questions on the Book of Abraham and Martyrdom

[00:30:12] The original papyrus. If it's your experience, the members and investigators, and you were all, all broadly taught that modern Egyptologists have completely invalidated the Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham papyrus, click yes. Or if, if no, it's your understanding that you, members and investigators, or any subcomponent were not broadly taught about the problems with the Book of Abraham translation.

[00:30:43] Click no. Click if you believe that everyone's been well educated about the Book of Abraham translation. I want to hear dates, times, people, any details you have on this information being broadly disseminated to most members, investigators, etc. And this, of course, speaks to one of Joseph Smith's, you know, one of the most important parts of the Mormon Church scriptural canon, because as you know, the Mormon Church believes in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants. The Book of Abraham is, along with the Book of Moses, are part of the Pearl of Great Price. And Joseph Smith's main first gift was that he was claimed to be a translator.

[00:31:32] And of course, he claimed to also translate the Book of Mormon. And while we don't have the gold plates to see if that was an accurate translation or translation at all, we do have the papyra. And so this not only speaks to the credibility of the Book of Abraham and of Joseph Smith as a translator, it also probably speaks to the credibility of the Book of Mormon as revealed scripture as well so go ahead and share your answer. Respond appropriately to question number nine. This is the last topical question. Then we have a few final questions for you. This is question number 10.

[00:32:10] During your time as a church member, was it your general experience that both investigators and members were broadly taught that Joseph Smith's final incarceration in Carthage jail was the direct result of his destruction of the Nauvoo printing press?

[00:32:28] And it includes this part, which exposed Joseph Smith to the public as a secret polygamist after he had been publicly denying his polygamous practices. So if, if you and investigators and the general membership, if you believe they all were generally taught that Joseph Smith was incarcerated in Carthage jail for destroying a printing press, for violating the First Amendment freedom of speech, and for being revealed as one who violated the law practicing polygamy, which was against the law, click yes. Otherwise, if you do not believe that the church was open and honest about this information, click no. And again, provide your information here. If you, if you say yes, I want to hear all the facts, details, evidence that members and investigators in you were all broadly taught about Joseph Smarterdom.

[00:33:26] And again, there's a reference here about what the church acknowledges, which isn't the full story, but it's at least some acknowledgment. This obviously speaks to not only whether or not Joseph really was a martyr versus he was a bad actor, not that deserved to be murdered, but, you know, this idea of him being an innocent lamb to the slaughter.

[00:33:51] The haters just wanted to persecute God's, you know, truth and one true church. And Joseph is pure as a driven snow. You know, this speaks to, you know, which of those narratives is correct versus you know, a fraud, a charlatan or sexual predator, someone who had been lying, somebody who violated the law and deserved to be put in jail.

[00:34:14] All right, of that. Those are the main 10 historical questions. And I just have a few final questions that I would love y' all to answer as a part of the survey and more importantly, to have believing family and friends and your church leaders answer and have a conversation with you about. All right. And again, you can fill out this form on behalf of church leaders that you talk to family members, you talk to general authorities, area authorities, you talk to stake presidents and bishops, you talk to. I would love you to fill this out on their behalf as well, if they're willing.

Final Quiz Questions on Church Transparency

[00:34:57] Final couple questions. Overall, do you feel like the LDS Church has been fully honest with its membership and investigators about its history? Yes or no? I'm going to say no because in My case, all of these 10 questions were answered, you know, in the negative or answered in a way that indicates deception or hiding of information from the LDS Church. So I'm going to say no. If you answered yes, I totally, I totally want to hear why, how you still believe that the Mormon Church has been fully honest with its membership and its investigators.

[00:35:34] Next question. Do you feel like the historical information above is important? So those 10 questions and the church's honesty, honestly, do you believe all that information is important when evaluating the validity of the LDS Church's truth claims? In other words, before someone's baptized, before someone decides to go on a mission, before someone decides to get married in the temple, to commit their lives to the church, to give 10% of their tithing to get baptized, to go to the temple, to make sacred covenants, you know, to have kids in the church, to raise their kids in the church, do you believe that that information that I've just shared is important in evaluating the validity LDS Church's truth claims?

[00:36:15] If you say no, it doesn't matter. People need to know that information to decide whether or not the church is true. Say no. And people don't need that information to impact whether or not they make crucial life decisions. Say no. If yes, you believe that information is critical overall in evaluating whether the LDS Church's truth claims are true and to make all those important decisions. Say yes. I would love even regardless of whether you say yes or no, I would love to hear your answers there.

[00:36:49] Just a couple sentences, nothing big. Final few questions number 13 do you feel like you would have made different life decisions if you were a convert to the church? Whether you served a mission, whether you got baptized, whether you get married in the temple, whether you the job or the occupation you chose or didn't choose, the number of children you had, whether or not you had children, the amount of tithing you paid, the amount of service you gave to the church, Would you have been made different life decisions if you had been given all of the information above, including whether or not the church has been honest and factual about its history?

[00:37:28] You know, would, would you have made different life decisions if, if you had been given all the facts? This is kind of the informed consent question. Did you engage in the church, participated in the church with informed consent?

[00:37:42] I. If, if you know, if you feel like you would have just made all the same decisions would with all that information, then say no. Knowing this information would not have affected my major life decisions as an LDS Church member, or if you're like me, where knowing this information would have dramatically affected my major life decisions as an LDS Church member. Click that and then please share.

[00:38:11] This is for the people who say yes, I would have made different decisions. Please share what different decisions you would have made if you had had informed consent. If you would have had all the answers. Two more questions. We're almost done. 14. Do you personally believe that the LDS Church leadership intentionally withheld this information from you because it was too problematic? If you don't believe that the LDS Church intentionally with all this information from you, say no. In other words, they didn't know or they didn't do it on purpose, say no. If, however, you believe that the LDS Church did know this information and intentionally withhold it from you, go ahead and say yes.

[00:38:57] And I would love if you say no above to explain you know your answer. And then finally the final question. There's actually two more but the the the final question regarding information we're trying to gather is to please share any final thoughts or experiences you would like to share about LDS Church history, historical transparency or, you know, this survey. That's a final catch all place for you to share anything else you want and then a non informational question. You know, would you be willing to come on Mormon Stories podcast to discuss your responses to this survey and or would you be willing to bring on believing family and friends, believing church leaders or others, or talk about your conversations with believing family and friends, church leaders, etc.

[00:39:53] On Mormon stories podcast and if you would then indicate as such and then hit submit. So that is that's the project. And my hope is, is that tens of thousands of you, we know that we have hundreds of thousands of viewers and listeners to Mormon Stories podcast. My hope is that number one, all of you who are within the sound of my voice or who can see this episode or learn about this survey will share this survey with as many ex Mormons, liberal Mormons, progressive Mormons, believing Mormons as possible so that as many people as possible will fill out the survey.

[00:40:39] Then two as many people as who are desirous and feel safe to do so. You will have conversations with your believing family and friends, parents, siblings, children, and most importantly church leaders, area authorities, general authorities, stake presidents, bishops. You will have conversations with them where you ask them these questions and you get their answers to fill out the form for them. But also or have them fill out the survey if they're willing to and or have conversations about, you know, these questions and then, you know, submit that go and then be willing to come on warmer stories and talk about it. That's what I'm hoping.

[00:41:24] And you know, you know, that's what what today's episode's about. All right, so really quickly, so many of you are sharing your thoughts and feelings in the chat. And so I'm just going to, I'm just going to go through some of the comments and questions. Rebecca Loveless, thank you so much for completing the quiz. Aya, thanks for completing the quiz as well.

Live Audience Comments and Reactions

[00:41:51] Little E says I'm, I'm a never Mormon, so I won't take the quiz. But you're interested in the discussion. Thank you for sharing. Richard says these questions are as honest that. Sorry, that the church leaders are as honest as they know how to be. I think that's possibly a little bit of sarcasm, but we appreciate, you know, we appreciate sarcasm. We think that sarcasm is a natural and fair way to respond to trauma or things that are hard.

[00:42:26] Rebecca Loveless made the joke that she just wanted to sin. That's why she left the church. Rebecca also says it legit took her less than five minutes, which I'm really happy to hear. Let's see, someone's asking the link to the quiz, so I will share it down below in the comments for those of you who want to copy and paste it. Or you can go to mormonstories.org historysurvey and you can find a link there to the survey as well. I also am going to mention that if any of you want to financially, what we want to do, talk to Gerardo about this. We want to pay Qualtrics to administer this survey randomly to people over the Internet so that the results of this survey could also potentially be part of a scientific study that's got more credibility and that's random, et cetera, if you're interested in and it's going to cost potentially something like ten grand to pay Qualtrics to to do a random blind distribution of this survey to general membership and ex Mormons.

[00:43:53] If, if you're interested in us doing that and are willing to help support it financially because it's going to cost about 10 grand approximately, you can go to donorbox.org LDS Church Research and we can promise you to do our best to make sure that all the money that you donate to this project goes towards the administration of the survey and to any labor or efforts or marketing costs involved by staff to administer this survey. So there's a donation link at the bottom as well, if you're interested in that. No pressure. It's this is not this, this initiative is not intended to raise revenue for Mormon Stories in the Open Stories Foundation.

[00:44:43] It's just if people want to see a random scientific sort of data gathering effort be made. All right, so cultural halls in in the house. Hey Cult, thanks for joining. Please check out Kolch does good work on a cultural hall.

[00:45:04] All right. A couple other comments Cynthia writes, I wrote a letter resigning the Mormon Church following the format provided on Mormon no More, but added a sentence saying I wanted no further contact with church. Thanks for sharing. Scrambled Egg asked if I can share the link in the chat I just did.

[00:45:22] Rebecca also said she shared it. There's life. Take two. Hey Jenny. Thanks for sharing it Jenny. I hope you and others, any of you who have a social media account, I would really appreciate whether on TikTok, Instagram if any of you have a social media account, I would love it if you would administer or build awareness of the survey. Again you can go to mormonstories.org history survey share that link. You can share just a direct link to the survey if you want. You can share this video. Whatever you want to do.

[00:45:56] I really appreciate anyone helping. All right. A.E. wants to know if there's a deadline for this survey. Take your time. It's definitely going to be open for the next several months, but do it as soon as you can.

[00:46:12] Jim Smith writes, I already took the survey very well put together. I would love to help out in any way I can. Jim Feel free to email us@mormonstoriesgmail.com if if you know if if you want to help, any of you can Tiny Gold Hanger says When are you doing a new get together in Utah? I live in South Jordan and have never been able to meet other Mormons and would love to make some connections. Tiny Gold Hanger what I recommend or for any of you who want to meet other Mormons in your area, email me@mormonstoriesmail.com I'm willing to host a Mormon Stories meetup to bring people together from your area.

[00:46:52] I've people have expressed interest in the Redmond sort of Kirtland, Seattle area. I'm I'm interested in supporting that. I've I'm interested in going to Los Angeles Orange county area to do a meet up there. I'm always interested in the Phoenix, Mesa, Gilbert, Tempe, Chandler areas. I'm interested in going to Boise.

[00:47:13] I'm interested in doing something here in Salt Lake. If any of you want to sponsor a meetup Mormon Stories Meetup in your area, I'm willing to do that. If the goal is to help people find friends and connections in their area.

[00:47:31] All right, let's see. Lots of people are saying that you have already filled it out. Paradise Falls says this is a great idea. Thank you for sharing. Let's see a couple other comments. I have a question. Jessica Spencer I have a question. What if I was taught it during seminary? It isn't likely that everyone goes through seminary and definitely not investigators. Well, Jessica, I was careful in how I worded these questions. It's not just whether you specifically were taught in some special isolated scenario. Each of these questions is designed to ask whether or not, overall, the Mormon Church has been open and honest and transparent with its membership.

[00:48:18] So if you were taught by your parents or by your seminary teacher or even at byu, one or some of these questions, that's not the question. The question is whether, in your experience, you and the general membership and investigators were taught each of these 10 items. In other words, overall, has the church been honest with the membership and with investigators about these 10 important issues?

[00:48:47] So hopefully that answers your question. Ayah says the results of this will be fascinating. I hope that we are able to get a good grasp on who knew what when and when they knew it. I appreciate that. Let's see. Coco B. Writes Jessica Spencer, I think that counts because that is your experience. I went through seminary for three years and was never taught this, but my age probably reflects that. Again, we're not looking for people's individual experiences. We're looking for their experience about the overall church membership. Really quickly, I want to thank Marlena for a Super Chat donation that's always appreciated.

[00:49:30] If any of you want to donate to support or want your question or comment to be read or seen, super chat donations to YouTube are a great way to have that happen. Marlena asks, do we know if the proposed Tacoma, Washington temple is a done deal? Marlena, I don't know the answer to that question, but it's a great question. If any of the viewers or listeners know, please share that information right now in the chat.

[00:49:56] Mormonish is a great resource to find out that information as well. All right, let's let's keep going through some of these questions because so many people are asking so many good questions. Thanks again for the super chat. All right, Let's see.

[00:50:31] Okay. Rosemary Bennett writes, I was just on a church post and a woman told me Joseph only had one wife, Emma. I told her to look up how many wives did Joseph Smith have? She'll be surprised to see the answer, I'm sure. I think that most members to this day are never taught about Joseph Smith's other plural or polygamous wives. And they're certainly not taught that he married 14 year olds, mother, daughter, pair, sister pairs, women married to other men at the time he married them, and that he was sealed. He hid his first 22 or more wives from Emma before he ever told them about them, and that he was sealed to 22 or more wives before he was sealed to his first wife, Emma, and then he lied about it to the public.

[00:51:17] I'm pretty sure most Mormons and most investigators had never heard that, but that's what the survey is is meant to vet. Can't Pray Me Away says submitted sharing on my Facebook. Thank you so much for sharing. All right, let's see.

[00:51:42] Let's keep seeing if there are other questions. If you want to make sure I see your questions or comments, please make it a super chat. Donnie Lee Gringo in Brazil says, wow, it's been so long since I was a teen convert in 1973, and then I left it all behind in my twenties after being kicked out of BYU for being gay. I can't honestly recall my state of mind back then. That's fair. Maybe the survey isn't for you, Celeste Black. Hey, Celeste, she writes, some of these were a gray area for what members were taught. Investigators were absolutely not taught this as it was in preaching my gospel.

[00:52:17] Well, again, Celeste, that means that you can answer these questions in the negative because I'm asking whether the church has been honest to investigators, members, and you, all of them. In other words, overall honest to all the people that would want or need to know this information.

[00:52:38] I hope that makes sense. Coco B. Is asking, why wasn't Joseph sealed to his parents and children and siblings? That's a great question. Camp Praying Away says, I learned about some of this history about byu. I had a foot out the door and this information shoved you out. That's, that's a good theory for why the church potentially hid this information from so many people. They were worried that, that if investigators knew this information, they certainly wouldn't join. And if members knew this information, maybe they wouldn't be as committed to the church or maybe they would leave the church. That's my theory, but I want to hear what what you guys think.

[00:53:17] Coco B. Says, I remember during seminary we did an object lesson where one student took the plates and ran out and around the block. My job was to run after him, run after him and get the plates. I told the dude I was to run next. The plates, the actual golden plates, if they existed, would have been super heavy, like 100 pounds or more. So running around the neighborhood holding a replica of the golden plates would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

[00:53:46] We have an episode on, you know, whether or not Joseph manufactured fake plates. I strongly recommend that y' all check that out because it's a really interesting episode. Let's see. Jessica Spencer writes, I was actually taught about the different accounts of the first vision in Scandinavian Sunday School when I was 11 or 12, before Young Women's, but we didn't get into the whole details. Well, I think the details are important if you're just generally told, ah, you know, Joseph Smith changed his story over time a little bit because, you know, we all, you know, have imperfect memory and sometimes we say things differently. That's different than being told that he said it was just Jesus in the first account and that there were several differing accounts, and that in 1832, he said it was just the Lord who visited him.

[00:54:42] And that was back when he believed that it was God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all one and that the Book of Mormon taught that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all one. And then in 1838, after Joseph Smith's theology changes to believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are separate beings, that Joseph Smith changes his first vision story to the 1838 account that then the church adopts as its official version.

[00:55:08] And also that Joseph Smith changes the Book of Mormon to reflect his evolving nature of godhood. Why would the Book of Mormon, if it was a translation used, you know, with ancient Urim and Thummim reading from gold plates and translating the characters, why would the Book of Mormon need to be changed at all, especially in such a specific way?

[00:55:31] Matthew says an interesting question would be, at what age were you when you stopped believing? That's a great question. I think we can infer that from the questions we've written. But, you know, I think that might be something that we can also share in a future version of the survey.

[00:55:51] Let's see. Gabby says smash the like button. Thank you, Gabby. Rosemary Bennett said. Rosemary Bennett says this Sunday might be my last as a member. It's something I really need to ponder and honestly pray about for my life. Rosemary Bennett, we on Mormon Stories podcast are supportive of people in and out of Mormonism, in and out of Christianity or religion.

[00:56:13] We just really want people to do what's best. So, Rosemarie, my hope is that you just do whatever's best and healthiest for you. Okay? Joanna Johnson says this is old news. I'm sorry to be negative. But this was changed a long time ago.

[00:56:30] Please be more specific. I don't know what you're referring to as being old news and what changed? All right, let's see. Rebecca Rebecca Loveless has the same questions. What was changed a long time ago? Rebecca also says, I was in the church up until about three years ago and I was never taught any of these things. Rebecca I'm guessing that's going to be the response of most of the people who fill out the survey. But let's see. Let's see what the data shows.

[00:57:06] Let's see. Kokobi writes, I never heard about the Book of Abraham problems and the pictures we have in there. Thanks to LDS discussions for bringing it to my shocked attention. Kokobi I'll also say that whole Book of Mormon narrative about the papyrus and Egyptologists and the false translation I never learned as a Mormon. I Learned in my 30s while working for Microsoft in Seattle. It was one of the first things that really shocked me into studying church history more in depth. And I'm guessing most of you haven't heard about that or were never taught it as members or investigating let's see. Jessica Spencer says, I was told about the Gospel Topics essays in seminary, but to be careful and make sure your faith was really strong before he read it.

[00:57:55] That's great to hear that you were taught about the Gospel Topics essays. Most of the members I've spoken with, including former bishops, stake presidency members who served after the Gospel Topics essays were released, did not even know the Gospel Topics essays existed. And we have church historian Elder Snow admitting that the Gospel Topics essays were not widely publicized because the church was worried that if it put this information out broadly, it would potentially lose members. Which begs the question, why did the church put the Gospel Topics essays out at all? And I think we know the answers. I think it's for two reasons.

[00:58:39] One is to help it avoid being sued for misleading its members, and then secondly to help the church blunt past accusations that it deceived and hid its members from the factual church history. As long as you can put them somewhere on the Internet and do your best to hide it. If somebody claims that you misled them or hid the information for them or gave them false information, you can have plausible deniability and say, oh no, we published those essays. Of course it was in response to, you know, Mormon Think Mormon Stories, the CES letter, you know, Sandra Tanner, Gerald Tanner, Lighthouse Ministry Dialogue, Sunstone. Of course you know, the Gospel Topics essays were a response to the Internet and the Mormon Church being Bludgeoned with factual church history and learning that so many people left the church over feeling deceived.

[00:59:41] Let's see. Jessica says, I was told about the printing press when the Laurels and priests and my stake went on a trip to Nauvoo and Carthage. Jessica, I'm going to guess you're younger than 25, because I think anyone who was taught any of these 10 questions broadly by the church, I think was done so after 2015.

[01:00:04] And I think it's going to be rare. Even still. Let's see. Rosemary Bennett says, I'm sure I'll get excommunicated if I have this survey, to take this survey to my bishop. If I leave, I want to leave, not get xed. Well, you know, I, I think that's interesting. If the Mormon Church excommunicates you purely for sharing a, a, a sincere, honest survey that with the bishop or stake president, that's a story I think the world should hear because people shouldn't be excommunicated for simply filling out honest, sincere, factual surveys.

[01:00:43] So, again, that's all the more reason to share these surveys with, with bishops and stake presidents and general area authorities, not just to get their responses, but also to tell us what happened when you shared the survey. And if you're discredited or disciplined or punished or mistreated for simply sharing a survey with family or friends or church leaders, I want to hear about that on Mormon Stories, and I think the world deserves to know. Coco B. Says, I always thought that Joseph Smith was in jail because of persecution. I didn't know he was there before he died because he destroyed the printing press and called for a militia.

[01:01:24] Yeah, I think you're in the majority there. All right, so Jessica's sharing in depth what she learned as a younger Mormon. We were told that Joseph destroyed the press, but not that it caused him to go to jail and that it was for the polygamy claims. Yeah. So again, you would say answer the second part of that question. Answer instead of the first.

[01:01:49] Okay, let's see. Coco B. Says, I think the day will come when the church has to say the Book of Mormon was a figment of Joseph Smith's imagination, but it can be used to make you think or to be inspired. I think that's likely the case, and I think there's good evidence that the church is already moving in that direction. Cecilia Lost and Found says she filled it out. Thank you, Cecilia, for filling it out.

[01:02:22] Connie May Rasmussen Allen says she missed the part on how to find the Survey. Go to mormonstories.org historysurvey to find a link to the survey. Or you can scroll up and find it in in the chat, Rosemary Bennett says, thank you John. I will share it with my family, most of whom are not active. Thank you for sharing.

[01:02:45] See Quiet intensity. One asks, what about hiding secret ordinances and finances or general authority meetings that conclude the opposite of what is taught in general conference? Those are all worth doing. Maybe I'll ask those questions in a future survey. I tried to keep the survey less than five minutes so the most amount of people would fill it out, but those are all super credible questions that maybe we'll include later. Jaden Schultzen says, completed. I hope this helps people come to the actual truth. Thanks Jaden. Mostly I hope people administer this survey to believing family and friends and church leaders and come back and share their experiences on Mormon Stories podcast.

[01:03:30] Let's see. Coco B. Says, I wonder how many people know about the second anointing. That would have been a great question to ask in the survey. How many know about the second anointing? Let's see. Squire Cook is is recommending other issues to discuss. The Mountain Meadows massacre, violence against Native Americans, lying about the church's teachings about polygamy overseas. Those are all super relevant.

[01:04:03] Adam Carpenter is quoting the movie Heretic. The one true religion is control. The Mormon Church is among many false belief systems out there. You are a sovereign and divine being. Never give your power away. Thank you for sharing.

[01:04:18] Debbie says pay Qualtrics. They do that. Yes, you can pay Qualtrics to administer a random survey on the Internet and pay for a certain number of respondents. So that's what we're thinking about doing. If there's enough people who donate to pay the $10,000 or whatever it is to have Qualtrics administer survey. Again, there's a link in the description or in the blog post if you want to donate. No pressure. This is not a fundraiser.

[01:04:51] This is just if people want to help support such a thing. Cecilia Lost and Found says she shared on social media accounts. Debbie notes that the links are in the show notes as well. Squire Cook brings up a good point. You can tell if you're in the wrong place if healthy discussion is not encouraged.

[01:05:11] Ever have a healthy discussion in Sunday school? That would be a great thing to actually have a believing or actively attending Mormon. Bring these questions into Sunday School or Elders Quorum or Relief Society and discuss these issues at church.

[01:05:27] Latterday Digest says Share like and subscribe thanks Jean. Check out Latterday Digest. It's a Cool podcast. Let's see. Cody Littlefield says, this is a really great idea. I did something similar for my family when I left. The hard part will be getting believers to take it. Well, if you're. If you try to get believers to take the survey and they're not willing to, I want to hear about those stories. I want to hear people come on the podcast and discuss what it was like trying to get people to fill it out.

[01:06:04] All right, Jerry. Jerry writes, I answered your quiz. I just recently submitted my resignation from the Mormon Church. Great questions. Thank you. I'll share where I can. Squire Cook writes hours wasted singing praises to a false prophet and volunteering to support policies and doctrine of a false narrative.

[01:06:35] Camp Premium Way says, last I heard, the Tacoma temple site is good to go. I'm so angry. I'll be seeing it as I drive up by 15. Marlena says, I'd hate for all those gorgeous trees to be destroyed for a temple. A lot of people are concerned about that.

[01:06:52] That's valid. Benjamin Hawk says, me too. I grew up just south of Tacoma. Let's see, Camp Premium Away also says from the church. The Tacoma, Washington temple is currently in the planning stages. No groundbreaking date has been announced.

[01:07:16] Let's see. Chuck KV says Fanny Alger scandal was new to me after I left the church. Never heard a peep about the Fanny Alger scandal in the church. Those who don't know Fanny Alger is reported to be Joseph Smith's first known adulterous affair and or first known polygamous wife. It happened in Kirtland in the early 1830s.

[01:07:40] Oliver Cowdery found out about it, called it a dirty, filthy, nasty affair. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated for accusing Joseph of an affair. And once Emma found out, once Emma had some sort of disturbance regarding Fanny Alger, who was, I believe, living in Josephine, Emma's home at the time Fanny Alger was kicked out of the house, sent away, and never, as I understand it, never heard from again.

[01:08:10] So, yeah, most Mormons haven't heard about Fanny Alger and I think maybe we know why. Squire Cook writes, thanks for your work, John. The transition is not easy. I needed a few hundred hours of Mormon stories as therapy as I learned the truth.

[01:08:25] So glad. Thank you. It's been help. I'm so glad to hear it's been helpful. Squire Cook, Kim Gokur, it says I have all the yes, no answers filled out and I'm in the process of answering the SAQs. Thanks for doing the survey. Thank you, Kim, for filling it out.

[01:08:44] Thank you to Rick Tapke for the Super Chat donation. We really appreciate it. Let's see. Mike Langdon writes, this is great, John. I look forward to seeing and hearing future podcasts with responders. Meet too. Maven, thanks for filling it out. Please share it Maven wherever you can.

Survey Results and Community Discussion

[01:09:07] Cocoa B says Just finished the survey. Pretty easy when all the answers seem to be a no for me, Brooklyn Parks asks, what's the end goal for this Brooklyn the end goal is, number one, to have as many Mormon Church investigators and members learn the facts about the Mormon Church truth history, church history so that they can make informed decisions about the church. So informed consent is the first goal of the survey. The second is to allow questioning or doubting members to have some sort of mechanism for having meaningful and honest discourse with with believing family and friends. A third purpose is is to get a sense for the openness and the environment within Mormonism today for having difficult conversations.

[01:10:04] Whether Mormon Church leaders are inviting and knowledgeable about and supportive of honest and transparent conversations about the Mormon Church and its history, or whether they're not, that's important information to have. And then finally, for me, a main purpose is to assess to what extent members and investigators and ex Mormons all believe that the Mormon Church has or has not been honest in its telling of history to its investigators and its members. And of course, if we all decide that the church hasn't been honest with its investigators and members to help encourage the church in the future to be more honest with its members, Brooklyn Parks, I hope that answers your question.

[01:10:51] I'd love to hear from you if that doesn't make sense. I Aya says she's done it for herself and for her mother. Aya, I want to hear your experiences doing this with your mother. Did you talk to her? Did you call her? Did you call her and then fill it out for her? Did you do it in person? Aya, tell me everything, especially if you're still on the call right now.

[01:11:18] New Richard Jones says one of our mods also put the survey on the MSP Discord server. That's great. Shout out to any viewers or listeners on the Discord server. All right, Kitty Brian writes, I was never taught any of these now taught discussions. That's good to know.

[01:11:40] Coco Beast says, too bad the Egyptians didn't have copyright rules for those funerary pictures. That would be good if they had done that. Connie May Rasmussen Allen writes, I was given a steady diet of profound gaslighting for many years.

[01:11:56] That's I I'm sorry you had that experience. That was my experience as well. That's part of what this, this survey is trying to address. Daniel John Kerry writes, ask if they were taught about tithing use, about the church's investments, its finances, if they knew about Smith's education, the bank fraud, Brigham Young's racist views. Those are all great questions. We may do a follow up survey asking those questions. Daniel John Kerry I kept it to 10 main questions this time so that it took five minutes or less to fill out. And for me there's some of the most crucial founding questions that, that the church bases upon.

[01:12:38] All right, Let's see. Rosemary Bennett says, thank you John. I'm appreciative of that. I'm thinking of going back to my old Catholic church. I don't need a celestial marriage to be with Jesus. Wishing you the best as you make those decisions.

[01:12:57] Rosemary Bennett, Latter Day Digest Jean writes, 60 years old, Sunday school and I never saw a picture of Joseph Smith and any other woman than Emma Valid. I think you're not alone. Coco B. Says, the Mormon Church does all of its surveys in secret. They don't approve of open surveys. That's, that's good to know.

[01:13:23] Pink Slime writes, can never most play. I'll take it to the local bishop. Yes, Pink Slime if never Mormons. If, let's just say Mormon missionaries come to your door, I would love you to administer this survey to your Mormon friends or Mormon missionaries and let's see if Mormon missionaries today in 2025 are being taught accurate church history or not, or whether they think that the church has taught accurate church history. Daniel John Kerry gave it a super chat. Thank you. Daniel John Kerry he's saying offer up a longer survey. Take some time to come up with 50 or more questions. That's a great idea. Thank you Daniel John Carrie we will evaluate that.

[01:14:08] I love that. Jaden Scholzen writes, I didn't learn about Joseph destroying the printing press until about a year or two ago from Mormon Stories. Glad you learned the truth eventually. Glad Mormon Stories was able to help you. Maven makes the point that longer surveys are far less likely to be completed.

[01:14:32] That's why we kept it short. Let's see. Mary Nit says we have only been members for seven years. I found your podcast and started to ask questions. My husband is in up to his eyeballs. Well, I hope Mormon Stories has been helpful to you Mary Nits and we look forward to your feedback on the survey and your experiences.

[01:14:57] Coco B asks john, how do you keep people from inaccurately answering in the positive to sway the findings. I don't know that we can totally manage that, but we'll just. We'll just report the results of the survey and we'll let the results speak for themselves. People can decide what they want to do with the results.

[01:15:20] Yeah, Connie May Rasmus and Allen says, I have asked a few if they have heard of the second anointing and they thought I was making it up. There's a really good series of Mormon Stories episodes about the second anointing and I would encourage you guys to go to Mormon Stories, click on it some of those episodes and learn about the second anointing because it's super crucial.

[01:15:48] Can't Pray Me Away says how many young Mormons know about the changes in the initiatory? They have no idea. We had to do prior to 2005. I would say very few. Can't Pray Me Away. I don't think people know about the changes. Maven yes. If you want to post a link to the survey, pin a link to the survey on YouTube or on Facebook or wherever. I would love Maven you to pin a link to the survey to make it easy for people to complete it.

[01:16:20] You can either do the Mormon Stories blog post if you think that makes sense@mormonstories.org history survey, or the actual survey link itself if you think more people are likely to fill out the survey if they don't see that it comes from Mormon Stories.

[01:16:37] That's totally up to you. Maven. Thanks for doing that. Let's see, Phoenix down 23 says let's hope the survey ends up being a catalyst for more change and transparency from the church. I hope we get some access to the advanced analytics down the road as well. Thank you so much. That would be amazing.

[01:16:56] Thank you for sharing. Let's see, Brady Nordfeld says come to Rexburg, where there are two temples within a half a mile of each other. I would love to do a Rexburg Mormon Stories meetup. We've done Idaho Falls twice. I would love to do a Rexburg Mormon Stories meetup. If any of you are interested in sponsoring that, please let me know.

[01:17:25] Jessica Spencer says never heard about Fanny in the church either. Did hear about polygamy. Did did hear about the 22 eyes before Emma. I think you're in the minority, Jessica, but I'd love to hear from everyone as well.

[01:17:41] All right, Jim says I knew about the Masons either as an investigator or soon thereafter in 1996 in western Massachusetts. Jim, that's great, but that's not my question. My question is whether you believe that the Mormon Church broadly taught to you, investigators and the general membership about the Masonic Lodge connections to Joseph Smith and the Temple ceremony. This is about the Mormon Church's honesty to its members and to investigators and to you.

[01:18:13] Dylan Hansey writes, Just wrapping up my binge of the LDS discussion series. Thanks for all the time and prep that goes into these episodes. I just finished the quiz I'll be sharing with my believing family members. Please come back and share with us on Mormon Stories what your experiences were discussing these questions with your friends and family and church leaders. That's the most important part of this entire project is the conversations that are sparked with church leaders and believing family and friends from this survey.

[01:18:48] All right, Latter Day Digest Gene says, I finished the survey in less than seven minutes. That's great to know. Sorry it took more than five. Hopefully many of you are able to do it in five or less. Brady Nordfeldt writes, Sometimes when I think back to the things I taught people on my mission that I thought were true but have now learned are so wrong, it makes me upset. I'm sorry that happened to you, Brady. That happened to me too. I think there's a T shirt going around saying I'm sorry for what I said when I was Mormon.

[01:19:22] I think a lot of people feel that way. Gene says maybe RFM will fill out this survey on his podcast. I would love it if Mormonish, Radio Free Mormon, Bill Real Nemo, the Mormon, Alyssa Grenfell. If any or all of them would consider filling out this survey on their podcast and sharing it on their platform.

[01:19:45] That would be amazing. So Aya reports back. Maven, I called her. I think Ayah shared the survey with her mom. She says I called her and went through the questions. She had not heard of any of the things she said that she would have probably made other life decisions if she had known these things. Great. That's my first report, Aya, of somebody administering the survey to a family member and then reporting back accordingly. Thank you. I would love to hear more. Jean Aldrich says, why isn't the link in the chat? I think it is. Just scroll way up and you'll find it. Hopefully Maven is pinning it as well.

[01:20:24] Can't Pray Me Away says, I'd love to know which questions you almost asked on the survey. Which ones did make the cut? Maybe we'll do that as a part two. That would be great. Let's see. Holly writes, it was cathartic to answer these questions. I think you should make a journal with prompts Holly, that's a great exercise. Journal prompts thank you for that wonderful idea.

[01:20:54] Let's see, Brady writes, I once attended a meeting at church headquarters where they were a group of researchers presenting what they had found. After a year of looking into what the youth felt about the church. That's fascinating. I would have loved to hear about that.

[01:21:12] Brady says, it was super interesting to hear from the church, but they told us we couldn't share the information with it. That is on brand. Stephanie writes, do you think active members will be honest? I think at first they deny and say these are anti and they say they knew and they say it doesn't matter. I I think most members will be honest so hopefully they will.

[01:21:39] So we'll see. Michelle said, the missionaries just texted me asking if they could come visit me this week. Should I go for it? Yes, Michelle, I strongly recommend you and everyone asks Mormon missionaries these questions and have a conversation with them about their answers. I think I'm going to add that in the instructions that missionaries be asked these questions as well because Mormon missionaries I'm curious to hear what they think.

[01:22:09] Deborah Alexander she is a donor. She says the LDS discussion series was a great help. Everyone should check out the LDS discussion series either on Spotify or on Apple Podcast or in the LDS Discussions playlist on the Mormon Stories podcast space. It's over 60 dedicated episodes where we do our best to analyze Mormon Church truth claims objectively with the evidence and it's helped tens of thousands of people. I really hope y' all will check out the LDS discussion series. Deborah thank you so much for letting us know.

[01:22:49] Aya is sharing more about sharing this survey with her mom. Ayah says her mom was really shocked by the fact that Joseph had as many wives as he did and that they were other men's wives. She was also shocked that Emma was not the first to be sealed. Yeah, me too. Aya that was was my exponsor as well.

[01:23:14] That was my experience as well and I'm sure the experience of a lot of other people. Rio for Life Kim D. Says I'd love to sponsor John Coming up to Keeping Minnesota I would love to come to Minnesota. I've come to Minnesota once for a Mormon Stories podcast meetup. I would love to do it again.

[01:23:34] So let's make that happen. Email me@mormonstoriesgmail.com if you want to sponsor a Mormon Stories meetup in your area. All right, let's see. Jean Aldrich says my seminary teacher told me that Joseph had only one wife in 1964. Liar liar, parents on fire. It's possible he was a liar or she was a liar. It's also possible that that they didn't know that they were victims and that they weren't told the truth by the church. Pink Slime says during the movie Heretic I was one of very few people in the cinema. So when they talked about Fanny Alger, I yelled. What about Helen Mark Kimball? Helen Mark Kimball was one of the 14 year olds that Joseph Smith married.

[01:24:27] Yeah, I think we were all disturbed. Learned about that. All right. Christina Anderson Cruz says love Mormon stories. Thank you Christina. We love our viewers and listeners. Let's see, Jim P. Shuck says, I learned about the Masonic Temple from church membership or perhaps from John. By the way, my understanding was this was broadly known. Feel free to answer it that way if that's your experience. Jim, again, it's not what just you learned, it's what your experience for each of these questions was for whether the church broadly taught these things to investigators, members and you. All of those things have to be yes for you to answer the question that the church was transparent on that issue.

[01:25:26] Let's see Daniel John Kerry writes, yep, pretty much everything we taught our on our missions to investigators were lies, distortions, revised history, deceptively clever, simply wrong and or designed to mislead. It's a gross feeling. I'm sorry that happened. I agree. I felt the same way. Thanks for sharing.

[01:25:49] Stephanie Ewing writes, I wish I would have been able to stay in and share all I had learned and force them to ex me. Well, what I can say is that it's not fun to be excommunicated. Take it from someone who's been excommunicated. Pretty much everyone I know has been excommunicated. Underestimated how brutal, how painful, how violent psychologically the experience was.

[01:26:16] Yeah. So I don't, I don't wish that. All right. Dark Star says survey completed. I wish everyone who shares this link. Unfortunately in some cases some TBMs won't believe the claims on the survey. Do not sure how to talk about it doesn't matter. The survey doesn't ask whether they believe it or acknowledge it. It's about whether they were taught it or not. So believing Mormons don't have to teach, don't have to acknowledge anything. They just have to address whether or not it was taught in their experience broadly to members and investigators and everyone else.

[01:27:02] The Bishop's interview refers people to the LDS discussion series almost every day. Check out The Bishop's Interview YouTube channel. Subscribe. Nathan Hinckley does great work. Nathan, I would love you to share this survey with your viewers and listeners and with anyone you think who could benefit. Gene, thanks for sharing this. In the Mormon Stories Podcast Facebook community, Coco B. Says, I think that LDS discussions has helped hundreds of thousands of people because we have 273,000 subscribers on Mormon Stories. Good point, Coco B. And the truth is, we have millions of viewers and listeners every year, so it's probably helped millions of people. I was just being understated.

[01:27:49] All right, I'm running out of steam. Coco B. Writes, I was a seminary teacher and I taught from the manual and I did not know what I taught. Again, same I was a seminary teacher. I didn't know what I was teaching, the truth of it. And and once I started investigating the factual Mormon Church history as a seminary teacher is when I started losing my faith.

[01:28:18] Molly Larsen's asking, how much would sponsoring an area visit amount to? Just email me@mormonstoriesgmail.com and we'll talk about what that would entail. Molly wants to do something in Rochester, Minnesota. Yeah, if you want to do a Mormon Stories meetup, you want to fly me and or Margi out or Gerardo or whoever, email us and we'll see what we can do.

[01:28:47] Let's see. I think that that's. I think that's all I can do today. I'm. I'm kind of worn out. Oh, I think we've pretty much come to the end of the questions anyway. Yeah. So I just want to conclude and say we have a new survey out. The survey can be found again@mormonstories.org historysurvey.

[01:29:22] I'll paste it again right now in the comments. For those who don't have it, the survey can also be shared directly from Google. I will share those in the comments as well. For those who don't want to share it.

[01:29:42] In association with Mormon Stories Podcast, this is the request that you, number one, fill out this survey yourself, number two, that you share it with as many people as possible. And then, number three, you engage believing family members and friends, bishops, stake presidents, general authorities, area authorities, and Mormon missionaries that you consider using this survey as a way to ask them to fill it out, but also as to have a meaningful, sincere dialogue about Mormon Church history and about whether the Mormon Church has been honest and transparent and in its sharing of church history.

[01:30:25] Me3str says, Good episode. Thank you so much. Jessica writes John, I don't think that any person with integrity could answer yes to any of those first ten questions. We'll see. I'd like to learn more. Benjamin Stanford says, I enjoyed taking the survey. Thank you so much.

[01:30:45] Yeah and a lot of people are saying thanks. So thanks for sharing this episode far and wide. Thanks for sharing it with leaders and missionaries and family and friends. Finally, I would love to bring some of you on Mormon Stories podcast, preferably with the people you shared this survey with and then have you tell us what your experiences were when you shared these experiences with your bishop or stake president, or with Mormon missionaries or with your believing family and friends. Bring them on. Come on and share your experiences. I want to hear about it.

[01:31:27] That would be awesome. Thanks so much for your support today. Also, finally, if you would like to see a version of this survey administered randomly on the Internet in sort of scientific type survey, you can go to mormonstories.org historysurvey and donate.

[01:31:49] There's a donor box links which is donor box link which is donorbox.org LDSChurchResearch. I'll share that in the comments, but also it's in the description of these episodes. It's on the blog. You can donate. We would need to raise, we're told, around $10,000 to pay Qualtrics to administer this survey to a scientifically representative sample randomly to see, you know, to see what a random scientific sample of current formal Mormons would say in answer to these questions. Anyway, thanks for joining us today. I'm really looking forward to this project. Please share the project and the survey far and wide. Just for fun, I'm going to quickly look and see how many people have filled out the survey.

[01:32:50] Great news. As of now, as of right now, it looks like 32365 people have responded to this survey. So far. 367. And just to kind of look at the responses, it looks like far and away the major. I'll share this information just because it's fun.

[01:33:19] So far, 368 responses, 87% are in the non believing category, 10% are in the semi believing category. That's great. And then 12% are in the Orthodox or traditional believing category. 67% rarely or never attend, 9% do not attend or rarely attend and 11% attend every week or almost every week. So that's great. 11% so far say that they attend every week or almost every week.

[01:34:02] 69% are current LDS Church members of record, 31% are former members of record. So far, 98% say that the church did not teach accurately about Joseph Smith being tried in 1826 as a treasure digger. So far, 97% indicate that the church did not teach the truth about.

[01:34:40] Oliver Cowdery about Joseph Smith's technique for translating the Book of Mormon. So 97% say they were taught an inaccurate version of the. The Book of Mormon translation with the stone and the hat and the peep stone. They weren't taught that. 98% were never taught that.

[01:35:03] That David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses, denied that Peter, James and John ever appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. So that's a big number. 93% were never taught that Joseph Smith married over 30 women, polygamously married 14 year olds, mother, daughter, pair, sister pairs, and engaged in polyandrous marriages. That's interesting. So, so basically, 7% are saying that they were.

[01:35:38] No, 3% were teaching that they were. I'll explain why some of these. I, I slightly altered the questions between the beginning and when I launched this episode. So we're gonna have to clean up the data a little bit, but, yeah, that. That answer's changed a little bit. 98% were not taught the truth about Joseph hiding his first 22 polygamous marriages from his wife and that Emma was sealed after 22 other women.

[01:36:11] 98% are saying they were not taught the truth about that. That's good to know. 96% were not taught the truth about the Joseph Smith's first vision. Which means that. Which means that a good 5% say they were. So I want to hear all about that. That's interesting. I want to hear about those 5% and what they experienced.

[01:36:37] Okay, this one's really interesting. 90 were not taught the truth about black men receiving the priesthood before. Before Brigham young banned it. 10% say they were taught that black men received the priesthood before Brigham Young. Bandit. I want to hear all about how and when they were taught that, but also not just them, but the general church membership and investigators. So let's see what happens there.

[01:37:10] 93% say they were not broadly taught about the Masonic Lodge's influence on the Mormon Church temple ceremony, but 7% say that they and the general membership and investigators were all broadly taught that Joseph Smith borrowed a significant percentage of the temple ceremony from the Masons.

[01:37:35] I don't know, man. They're. They're saying that investigators were taught that too. I just don't believe it. But let's, you know, I'll wait and read the data and see. Maybe they misunderstood the question. Let's see. As far as people being taught the truth about the book of Abraham, 99% are saying they were not taught the truth. About the Book of ABRAHAM and, you know, 1% say they were so. I can't wait to read about that.

Summary of Survey Results and Closing Thoughts

[01:38:06] And finally, question number 10, whether or not Mormons were taught the truth about Joseph's martyrdom and incarceration. 96% say they weren't taught the truth about Joseph Smith's martyrdom. And 4% say they were, so I can't. And that investigators were. And that the general membership were. I can't wait to read about where and when the truth was being taught about that.

[01:38:35] 99% say that they feel like the church has not been fully honest with the membership and investigators about its history. That is what I expected, but I. I can't wait to see how the number changes over time and to read the explanations.

[01:38:54] 99% say that they feel like this information is important or relevant to evaluating whether or not the Mormon Church is true. I love that. Next, 90% say they would have made very different life decisions if they had been taught a factual history. That means 9% would not have made different decisions if they had knew the truth. I can't wait to read those responses.

[01:39:30] And then 96% believe the Mormon Church leaders intentionally withheld this information from them in the membership because it was too problematic. Whereas 4% do not believe that the LDS Church intentionally withheld this information because it was problematic. That's interesting. I can't wait to hear. And then finally, wow, 7 67% of you say you're willing to share your responses on a YouTube or a podcast video to promote greater awareness of LDS Church history.

[01:40:17] I'm specifically interested in people that are willing to share their experiences discussing these issues with family and friends on a Mormon Stories podcast. That's what I want to bring on is people who are willing to say, hey, I invited Mormon missionaries into my home. Ask them these 10 questions or these 15 questions, here's what happened. Or I talked to my bishop or my stake president or an area authority or a general authority about these questions and about Mormon Church history. Transparency. Here's what happened. Or if you're willing to bring your believing family and friends on or church leaders on Mormon Stories to discuss the conversation you had.

[01:40:58] That's what I'm interested in most of all. All right, that's it. Thanks for joining today on Mormon Stories. Thanks for supporting us with this project. I can't wait to see what comes about as a result. Love you all. Thanks for the donors, the Bread and Butter monthly donors that make Mormon Stories podcast possible.

[01:41:15] Please become a monthly donor. If you're not finally you can go to mormonstories.org click on the donate button to become a monthly donor of Mormon Stories. Finally, be good to each other, be kind to each other, and we'll see you all again soon on another episode of Mormon Stories podcast. Take care, everybody.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.