Welcome and Introductions

Scott Beck [00:00:00] Foreign.

John Dehlin [00:00:04] And welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories Podcast. I'm your host, John Dehlin. It's November 12, 2024 and I'm so super excited for today's interview. Today we are interviewing the creators, the screenwriters for the brand new, I'll say hit movie. I don't know if it's a hit, but for me it's a hit. The movie is Heretic. It's starring Hugh Grant and it's a suspense thriller kind of horror movie that has some pretty significant Mormon content.

John Dehlin [00:00:35] And we did a private screening. Mormon Stories audience did a private screening on Sunday a couple days ago. We sold out in like four hours. There was raving applause for this movie. Mormons are stoked about it. At least the Mormons that I hang out with.

John Dehlin [00:00:52] And I was happy that 824 Studios reached out to me to invite me to a screening which I couldn't attend. But then in a follow up I was able to get the two main screenwriters for the movie to come on Mormon Stories. And so that's what today's interview is. So Scott and Brian, welcome to Mormon Stories podcast.

Scott Beck [00:01:15] Thanks for having us. Great.

Bryan Woods [00:01:16] Thank you for having us.

Scott Beck [00:01:17] Great to be here.

John Dehlin [00:01:18] Let me just go ahead and read a bio really quick. Scott Beck and Brian woods are the screenwriters behind Heretic and are best known for co writing A quiet place that's 2018. Love that movie as well. Both filmmakers have built their careers as a writing directing duo, often collaborating on genre projects. They grew up in Bettendorf, Iowa and began making films together during high school. Their notable works include writing and and directing haunt and 65 and contributing to Stephen King's adaptation the Boogeyman. Beck and woods gained significant recognition with the Quiet Place commercial and critical hit that showcased their skill for creating tension filled narratives with minimal dialogue. They continue to work on various film projects, frequently within the thriller and horror genres. Scott and Brian, what do you guys think about Chad GPT's description of your careers? Oh, man.

Scott Beck [00:02:16] AI, I don't know if we want to start off talking about.

John Dehlin [00:02:22] Oh no, it's good. And you're, you're David's behind the scenes. He says that you wrote, directed and produced Heretics. So I don't want to minimize your role.

Bryan Woods [00:02:31] Yeah, no, appreciate that, appreciate that. And thanks for having us on. We have so many, you know, Mormon friends and Mormon extended families that, that made us aware of Mormon Stories and, and what you do. So it's a pleasure to be here.

John Dehlin [00:02:47] Fun. Well, let's just jump right in there's. So many things we could talk about. So I'm going to, I'm going to focus on the religious Mormon aspects because we only have 55 minutes with you guys. Is that okay?

Being Mormon or Mormon-Adjacent in Hollywood

Scott Beck [00:02:57] Yeah, of course. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:02:58] Okay, so first question is one, whether either of you were raised with religion, if you want to talk about that and, or did you all have significant interactions with either Mormons growing up or people? If I demand religions, yeah, absolutely.

Scott Beck [00:03:14] The, the answer to both questions would be yes and, and to dig a little deeper into that. So Brian and I, we've known each other since we were 11 years old. I, every single Sunday I was going to a Presbyterian church and you know, doing Sunday school communion, did confirmation in, in the church and, and it was a huge part of, of the, my childhood from the standpoint of it was the initial community have so many friends that I made.

Scott Beck [00:03:43] My, my parents friends are still very much like in my life in terms of the, the community that was kind of built around there. And as we got older, both Brian and I started kind of having a larger worldview of religion, meaning we both married into families of different religious backgrounds. When we moved to California, like our, our friendship circle expanded into people that were non believer Scientologists that practice Islam and on and on. And so I feel like our religious worldview really grew and then about 12 years ago was really our main introduction into the Latter Day Saints because we actually filmed our, one of our first professional movies in Salt Lake City and through that process our crew and then subsequently like our friendship circle expanded, knowing so many different Mormons and forming so many lifelong relationships with them.

Bryan Woods [00:04:38] Them.

John Dehlin [00:04:39] Which, which movie was that?

Bryan Woods [00:04:41] It was a movie called Nightlight. It was a very tiny independent film that Lionsgate eventually released and we loved our time in Utah so much. We were kind of like, wow, we should make every movie in Utah. We haven't been back since sadly, but, but really enjoyed it and, and, and truly made lifelong bonds. I mean I even myself, I ended up marrying into a Mormon family which is, seems outrageous to my, you know, brain like my childhood brain because until, until Nightlight More, you know, the LDS Church was not something that we were super familiar with. So yeah, it's been a, it's been a long journey.

John Dehlin [00:05:25] So Brian, I, I'm, I, I did read in the advanced copy that that I, I, I believe you were married to someone who had an LDS background and so that, that obviously makes me dying to know. Mormons don't always like their dirty laundry being aired and Mormon families are sort of notoriously fiercely loyal. So I have to ask if there's any. If you want to talk about any possible blowback, because I can't imagine there not be.

Bryan Woods [00:05:56] Yeah, you know, I haven't really felt it from the family. I think that, you know, they know what big hearts Scott and I have and, and. And certainly the movie is airing dirty laundry, tearing dirty laundry about Radiohead also, which we were honestly more nervous about getting in trouble for.

John Dehlin [00:06:20] But.

Bryan Woods [00:06:22] But I don't know. The family, by and large, has been extremely, extremely supportive.

Scott Beck [00:06:27] I would say, though, like, you're tapping on something that we were very sensitive about, like going into this because, you know, whether it's speaking directly about people that are. That are members of the church or any other religion, there. There was a sensitivity that we wanted to approach everything with a degree of empathy where it's like, on one hand, trying to make sure that we're looking and unpacking each, you know, whether. Whether it's a faith or atheism, unpacking it in a very, you know, technical, logical way, but also trying to approach everything with the acknowledgment that people come to their relationship with faith in their own personal ways.

Scott Beck [00:07:06] So there's a degree of, like, personal faith versus, like, the organization of what religion really is and trying to. To attack and also bolster each of those. So we were very sensitive about how even, like, our Mormon friends would. Would be feeling about it. And maybe, maybe if there is ill will, we haven't heard it yet. But I feel like the converse reaction is actually a lot of people like engaging with the movie on a thoughtful level.

Bryan Woods [00:07:30] Yeah, a lot. I mean, certainly a lot of the pushback that we felt has felt almost derived from either people who haven't seen the film or, or, you know, there's a feeling from the kind of LDS Church at large of. I don't know. I. Maybe it's. It's too big of a statement to say that the church is maybe pushing people away from the. From film, but there is maybe a feeling. I'm curious from your point of view, what. What you feel like the culture and the church is suggesting about the movie, because we're not, you know, we're not on the ground.

John Dehlin [00:08:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I'll just. I'll jump there then. You know, the Mormon Church did release a statement. I'm sure y' all have seen it. I'll go ahead and read it. Just for those who don't know, this is from the Deseret News, and it says, quote, this is Tad Walsh describing the church's statement.

John Dehlin [00:08:30] I think this is the church. So like many Hollywood productions, this is a work of fiction and is not based on actual events. That's a fascinating clarification. Doug Anderson said in statement provided to the Deseret News. Quote, it portrays the graphically violent treatment of women, including people of faith and those who provide volunteer service to their communities. Any narrative that promotes violence against women because of their faith or undermines the contributions of volunteers runs counter to the safety and well being of our communities.

John Dehlin [00:09:03] Doug Anderson said that the church has nearly 80,000 missionaries serving around the world and that it provides them with the thorough program of physical and emotional safety training. Quote, our commitment is to foster a culture of respect, empowerment and safety for all individuals. Before I opine, let me give you all a chance to respond to that statement.

Bryan Woods [00:09:21] Well, I mean, that specific state, I mean we did read. You're reminding me, we did read that Deseret News piece. It felt to us like a bad faith reading of the movie. It felt like it kind of ignored all the kind of empathy and love that we have for our characters. It, it ignored the, the church's position, per that statement ignores cinema history. Like the concept that, that, that, that stories about difficult subject matters are not endorsements of those things. Which is obvious to anyone who watches a movie. You know, you obviously like you, you watch Saving Private Ryan. That's not an endorsement of. Because there's violence in the film. It's not an endorsement of that violence.

Scott Beck [00:10:19] I, I think too like, again, because like our, our goal is like filmmakers is always to try and approach difficult subjects with like empathy. The other thing I would add is that we understand that there are otherwise like perceived attacks on any certain religion. And certainly the Church of Latter Day Saints has been kind of the punching horse for some of these attacks or certain things in the media, but certainly heretic for us like Mormonism is certainly a window into the debate, but it's not like the end all be all right standpoint on, on, you know, the different things that we're saying in the movie.

Bryan Woods [00:11:07] The movie is certainly about all religions, but like one of the things that we, that was really important to us and that's why a bad faith reading in the desert news kind of is disappointing to hear. Like, because one of the things we wanted to do is we felt like, you know, LDS people have been portrayed almost as caricatures and other art forms and media generally. And we wanted to kind of take that expectation and introduce you to two young missionaries who Are admittedly a little naive and have not seen a lot of the world, but a little bit of the world. And we wanted to kind of misdirect you and introduce you to, like, oh, is these.

The Missionaries and Their Dynamic in Heretic

Bryan Woods [00:11:47] You know, do we take them seriously? Are they. Are they smart? And then piece by piece as the movie progresses, you realize how intelligent they are, how. How much depth is there in both characters, even in the character that maybe you expected the least to rise to the occasion, really rise to the occasion, and how cool they are. Like, we love these characters. These characters should watch this movie and go, I want to be those two people.

John Dehlin [00:12:11] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I can't help but notice a tiny bit of a similarity between Matt Stone and Trey Parker, Childhood buddies, as I understand it. And then they did so much together, and then they went on to create a musical about Mormonism.

Scott Beck [00:12:25] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:12:26] Anyway, I think of them. I think of you guys, that I think of them. Do you all ever think about that comparison or is that just me?

Scott Beck [00:12:33] I mean, it's been. It's. It's impossible to at least ignore the influence, you know, as someone who's seen Book of Mormon several times now on stage and as well as, like, the specific episode of south park where they address Mormonism. And again, being outside of, you know, the Church of Les, like, I view that. And my takeaway from that is not necessarily, like, it's a criticism wholeheartedly. It's really about, like, oh, if you're a good person and no matter what you believe, if you're a good person with, like, good in your heart, like, that's one of the most important tenets, I think, of humanity outside of religion. And so I think that's what we kind of see in the process of anyone that. That embraces faith or doesn't embrace faith, like, that's one of the core human qualities that I think we're really interested in.

John Dehlin [00:13:26] Yeah. And I think I should have noted why I made that connection, because they described the Book of Mormon musical as a love letter to religion, Mormonism. And the characters do come across as heroic. So I just want to say I totally agree with that. If I could help you guys with the response to the church. If any other people ask you about the church's response, you can tell them two things. The first one I get from a Mormon post Mormon tick tocker named Carly. The Book of Mormon itself portrays severe violence against Mormon missionary women. Like, Mormon women get burned, I think, in. In the Book of Mormon.

John Dehlin [00:14:02] So, like, there, if that standard is applied that the church wants to apply to your movie, it's going to apply to the, the church's own scripture. The other thing I'll say is you probably know this, But I think nine Mormon missionaries have died this year in 2024. And the Mormon Church has a notorious history of not keeping missionaries safe sometimes. And so there's, there's important stuff to talk about here.

Scott Beck [00:14:26] That's all I want to say.

Bryan Woods [00:14:27] That's horrible. I mean, our hope. Yeah. I mean, obviously the safety of the missionaries are, are. Is extremely important. There's nothing more important than that. And, and, and I do think that there's probably things that can, you know, be modified. It's not our place to say, but that. That could, you know, put their safety more at the top of the list. And. Yeah, it's. Yeah.

Scott Beck [00:14:52] Well, I just, I think about like, violence perpetuated in history of humankind, specifically like in religious context. I mean, I feel like so much of the, the Old Testament, I mean, is steeped in violent interactions. And so there's, there's a degree of humanity that has that. But again, like, the purpose for us of like literature of movies and such is to find the nuance within these human stories. And violence can be a reflection of our society, but it also can, can have like a more nuanced approach when you kind of dig into the mirror of what we're trying to get at with, with heritage.

Bryan Woods [00:15:28] It is also. So we, we have read the Book of Mormon during our kind of research period. And, and I do agree that it's quite. It's like it can't. It's extremely violent and our movie is not violent hardly at all, although it is. It is a kind of scary parameter. But we also laugh because the movie is borderline PG13. There's, there's no swearing in the movie and the violence is tamer than what you see on television these days. So it is, it's a, it's a pretty. The movie is just, it's a conversation about religion is what is. What is how we look at it.

John Dehlin [00:16:05] Totally. I loved. I'll show another of, of the marketing pie. It's the candle of the blueberry pie. And the tagline says question everything. And let me just ask you what. You know, let's go a little bit more into that. What was your intent? Some, A faithful Mormon is going to say, you guys are trying to tear down faith. You're trying to tear down belief in the Mormon Church, trying to get Mormons not to believe, trying to, you know, take down Christianity or religion in General, can y' all clarify if that was or wasn't your intent or what was your intent in terms of religiosity?

Scott Beck [00:16:37] Yeah, absolutely not our intent. I think our intent is to look at anybody's relationship again, whether it's their relationship with faith or the lack thereof, and invite a conversation of introspection of why do you come to those conclusions.

Scott Beck [00:16:58] For us, the most dangerous ideology is steeped in certainty, where you feel like this is the only way to approach a certain way of life, or imposing beliefs on others that's prohibiting their right to live the way they want to live.

Scott Beck [00:17:17] I also think it's one of those things that historically people usually come to faith because it's what they're raised in. And there's a degree of just taking that for granted. We certainly have had that experience in our own lives, whether it's religion or other things that you encounter in life where it's just a way of life and it takes like a moment, whether it's because you're, you're coming into your own as like a teenager or early, early adult or a life impacting moment like losing a family member and you're questioning, you know, what happens when you die and is there an afterlife or is there not? I think the movie is, is about questioning everything, questioning why do you come to your own conclusions.

Bryan Woods [00:17:57] And, and we're at a very dangerous time for discourse. We're, we're living in a kind of virtual digital social media simulation of sorts where hot takes are fed to us by the algorithm. And so the idea of a nuanced conversation is almost non existent. And that's so scary to us to, to not talk and to not think and have free thought and free thinking and even whether it's politics, religion certainly, but even, even movies like we joke like, you know, like Hugh Grant's favorite movie is the Sound of Music, which is a brilliant film, beautiful. But if somebody came up to you and was like the greatest movie of all time is the Sound of Music and anything other than that is wrong, that's kind of frightening.

Bryan Woods [00:18:51] Like that kind of, like that kind of mentality of I'm right, you're wrong. And when you add to that life and death stakes, it's not healthy, it's not healthy for planet Earth. And, and, and so Heretic was an attempt to start a conversation and let it be a free conversation.

Bryan Woods [00:19:11] And I, and who knows how it will be received by people. But you, what you don't want is those kind of, you know, those kind of desert news Articles that are kind of pushing the, the movie out with, without even consideration. What you want is like you, you we hope is that, oh, that starts a conversation with Deseret News or the, the author who wrote that piece where people can kind of communicate and talk about it. And to be, and to be fair, I actually, we felt like, you know, the Salt Lake Tribune and various kind of the, the conversation we feel that's emanating out of the LDS community and Utah has actually been a very seeming thus far to us from afar, from a distance, an open, free, fair conversation.

Bryan Woods [00:20:02] Because we're by no means saying like, like the movie. Or else we're like no, hate the movie, dislike the movie. Why do you dislike the movie? Why did it not reach you or why did it push, push you away? That's super interesting to us as well.

John Dehlin [00:20:15] Well, if I could assuage your concerns, number one, Mormons more and more are disregarding the rules the leader, the, the church leaders put on them, especially the younger people who are probably most inclined to see this mo think it's great for all audiences, all ages. Also, the Mormon Church is as subject to the Streisand effect as anyone is. And so the more the church announces it, the more they're just going to promote it for you. Let me jump on. So obviously you could have picked a lot of different high demand religions as the subject. You could have picked Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Nexium. If somebody says, well, why were you picking on the Mormon?

Scott Beck [00:20:55] What would you say?

Bryan Woods [00:20:55] Well, yeah, it's because for two reasons. Reason number one is that we felt like Mormonism was a great entry point to a larger conversation about religion because it's newer and it's uniquely American. And those two things just make it interesting. The history is very recent. It's easier for Reed to maybe kind of scratch at it. Mr. Reed, who's this kind of expert in all world religions in the film and, and you know, gets kind of a sick kick out of you know, tormenting these, these young women with ideology and thoughts and ideas. And so it made it a great kind of entry point. But it's, it's also, you know, it's a Christian religion ultimately.

Bryan Woods [00:21:34] And so it ties into the kind of history of the big three monotheistic Abrahamic religions. And so it just, that to us made sense. And then reason number two, which is probably more important to us is we are, we feel that personal storytelling is the most important thing. The more that's just as filmmakers and, and film lovers that the the more personal something can be, the more that it's ripped from your. Your heart and soul, the more specific and weird and unique. Sometimes the more a piece of material or a piece of work can connect with people.

John Dehlin [00:22:14] People.

Bryan Woods [00:22:14] And so that's really important to us. So because of our personal connection to. To the church, to. To LDS members, we had something to say about it.

John Dehlin [00:22:26] I love that. That makes total sense to me. You know, I don't know if you even want to weigh in, but, you know, Mormons are really self conscious about how they're portrayed in the media and particularly sensitive about, like, being compared to cults or being called a cult.

Scott Beck [00:22:43] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:22:44] Do y' all even have opinions or thoughts on whether it meets that classification or do you want to go there?

Scott Beck [00:22:51] I mean, I, I don't. I don't have an opinion on that. I think the observation that I would have is, at least in our experience with the, with the church members that we know is that there's a wide range of spectrums. I mean, much. John, is what you were saying before about, you know, younger members having their own point of views, especially when maybe church leaders are trying to impress their own belief systems on their. We've certainly seen, you know, wide ranging beliefs. I mean, the reaction to the LGBTQ community over, you know, the last 15 years, it feels like, has certainly shifted in the conversation.

Scott Beck [00:23:27] And we have members that, or we know members that are gay or lesbian and that they are able to be fully accepted and that they have found their own relationship to the church in their own way. And so when I think about a cult, though, I think about like a very, very.

Scott Beck [00:23:46] What comes to mind is Nexium, like Keith Renari and the degree of, like trying to woo somebody in with something to change your life. And, And. And it's almost like a marketing scheme to a certain degree.

Bryan Woods [00:24:00] I almost think like all cults and religions start from a place of love. That might not be true, but I think, like, broadly that that's probably true. They start from a place of love. We're members of a cult.

Bryan Woods [00:24:13] Our cult is the cult of A24 film lovers. We love A24 movies. And we're like, we always go see their movies right away and we buy their swag. And it's like, I'm not entirely sure that's a healthy relationship, but, you know, like, like cold start, like, like something like Scientology, which is kind of, I feel like people consider to be a cult these days, not everybody. And I want to be respectful if, if you, if you, if you Believe. See it as a religion. I can understand how you, how you can get there, but. But even that, you know, started from a place of like this book about Dianetics where it's about self help and, and, and it's kind of like about helping yourself versus using drugs and, and like that's a very kind of noble pursuit.

Bryan Woods [00:24:57] I think a lot of, A lot of religions and cults are. So I, I don't know. Where does Mormonism fall? That's not really for us to say. I do think one of the things that is interesting to us about the LDS Church is the way that it evolves. The movie actually talks about this briefly. Reid points out that this idea of kind of modern revelation and being able to adapt and evolve does make the LDS Church quite unique. And on some levels that's, you could argue that's kind of a beautiful thing to be able to evolve with culture as opposed to being stuck. Stuck with some of the things that a modern society would consider hateful or diminishing to, to certain groups of people.

Interpreting Characters, Symbols, and Endings

John Dehlin [00:25:44] I have to ask it. I, I wasn't sure whether or not I should consider Reed to be a secular character or whether he actually was religious.

Scott Beck [00:25:54] Right.

John Dehlin [00:25:54] I guess. But I guess is it, is it fair to say Reid could be a criticism of secularism in, in the movie, or am I taking that too far?

Scott Beck [00:26:04] No, I think that's, that's absolutely valid and it's something we, we dug into quite a bit with Hugh to understand who read is because there's so much about the movie that. And, and the character rather, that's unspoken. And we look at Reed as somebody that is on the pursuit of. Of knowledge of. Of some sort of revelation of something bigger than what meets the eye.

Scott Beck [00:26:30] But he's been met with disappointment that he's trying to approach things from a logical standpoint. He's trying to really unpack what happens when you die. And, and so much of like what we feel the relationship to religion is with the afterlife is. Is a bit of comfort, a bit of knowing that there is something more and that it's not just lights out and, and that maybe ultimately that's what terrifies Reed at his core as much as he would not admit it.

Scott Beck [00:26:59] But again, we're going off the page of the script where really what you see is what you get. But we kind of love that just from a filmmaker standpoint to leave a lot of edges of the film fuzzy so that there's something there that you can see beyond, but you really need to come to your own conclusions on where he kind of comes out and also like, what you take away from the movie in terms of your own relationship.

John Dehlin [00:27:25] I was gonna ask so many of my friends, Mormon friends, are trying to interpret all the symbols and, and the plot and the characters and the character arcs. And I was gonna ask you how much you guys like versus don't like helping provide interpretations of. Of characters and scenes and, and aspects of the film versus not right.

Bryan Woods [00:27:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't like to have, like. Well, as filmmakers and storytellers within the contained parameters of the movie, we like to help and, and allude and foreshadow and, and, and touch on certain things. But as filmmakers talking about the movie, we absolutely hate it. We, like, feel like, like we're at risk of, like, ruining the movie by talking about it is how we feel. And like, the more we talk about, like, the ending, which is extremely interpretive, intentionally so, and, and, and should be personal to the person watching the movie, shouldn't be for us to say. We just. We're only at risk of sticking our foot in our mouth.

Scott Beck [00:28:26] Yeah, this movie absolutely is. Is more difficult, like, because our, our prior, you know, films are. They're. They're kind of more straightforward. You know, it's Alien Invasions, Dinosaurs versus Adam Driver. What makes this different, I think, is, like, it goes to more personal places, and I think that's more where we, where we're at in life. Like, it's just. We want to spill our gut on the page and, and wrestle with things that we're wrestling with life, but put that on screen as much as we can, even if it's in the vessel of, like, a thriller movie.

Scott Beck [00:28:57] And so to a certain degree, like, we're just used to putting whatever story we want fits inside that screen for two hours. What exists outside of that, especially in a movie like Heretic, all comes down to the personal relations. If, if there was more about Reed that, you know, we. We wanted to speak to, it would probably be in the character on screen. And that's not to restrict what we're discussing on this, on this video and podcast today. But, but I think that's kind of the. The thing we're discovering in the process of this movie now, having a relationship with an audience now that it's out there, is that we don't want to put too many impressions upon our own belief system that color the movie in a certain way that could invalidate somebody else's relationship with the, with the story in the film.

John Dehlin [00:29:40] Love it. Love it. Makes perfect sense. All Right, well, let's talk about the research process. I just have to tell you that the first 30 minutes, for someone who spent 20 plus years trying to educate Mormons about Mormonism, let alone the rest of the world about Mormonism, you two, if I could just give you some congratulations, you two have done more in 30 minutes to help the world understand Mormonism than the Mormon church has in 200 years. And, and that I have as a podcaster in almost 2000 episodes. You mentioned Fanny Alger. You mentioned a quote from Gordon B. Hinckley. You talk about Joseph Smith's polygamy.

John Dehlin [00:30:21] I think this is going to be more impactful to the Mormon Church and its culture than the Book of Mormon musical. So I wanted to give you that compliment. I wanted to say thank you on behalf of hundreds of thousands of ex Mormons and Mormons, but also just I'm dying to know who, who helped you, if you can share, do the research and, or what resources did you. Are you comfortable sharing where you ramped up to give such a phenomenal, you know, explication of the foundations of Mormonism?

Bryan Woods [00:30:54] Wow. Well, first of all, thank you so much. That is incredibly, incredibly kind. We started writing this movie about 10 years ago. We got to, again, in the aftermath of meeting Mormons, being curious about Mormonism. We're curious about religion in general and cults and cults, religions.

Bryan Woods [00:31:16] All of it's interesting to us. Skeptics have always been like James Randi, this kind of magician skeptic. He's always been interesting to us. These are just things that are interesting to us. So we read, we read about these things. And when we were introduced to the LDS Church through our friends, we were just very curious and, you know, tell us everything. Wow. Like, you know, oh, that's interesting. And that's interesting.

Bryan Woods [00:31:40] And so as we were writing this, this film, we kind of got to the point where Mr. Reed emerges about 15 pages in, and we're writing, we know we want to write this character that's an expert on all the world's religions and certainly an expert on the LDS Church. And we felt like we were completely out of our depth. We didn't know enough about, about any of it. And so we spent the following 10 years in a very fun way. Not in a like rigorous, we're up late at night studying in a library or something, but in a fun way. Just reading books and reading information, listening to podcasts, absorbing information, talking to people, talking to friends, talking to family members to kind of flesh out this, this, this history of the church.

Bryan Woods [00:32:25] And, and I think like, one of the biggest inspiration points was a series of meetings that we took with two female Mormon missionaries who, I. I won't say their names just because I. They probably don't want to be. I have no idea. But they might not want to be associated with this movie whatsoever. Maybe they would, I don't know. But it was many years ago when we sat down with them, but. And it was actually three because, um, it was two missionaries. And then one of them swapped out, I believe, and went somewhere else. And then a new partner came in and they were wonderful, super smart, lovely human beings.

Bryan Woods [00:33:07] And getting to study the church through them was really instrumental as well. And I don't know, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but it was just a lot of reading, reading books and, and filling our heads with as much information as possible. And the hard part wasn't the research. The hard part was like having an entertaining, like an entertainment, like I'm making a movie out of all this random trivia that is in our heads was the trick. But ultimately a fun experience.

John Dehlin [00:33:40] Love it. Okay, I have to give a shout out. I don't know if you guys know this. My friend Tyler Meesum, who's an ex Mormon.

Scott Beck [00:33:46] Oh, yeah, yeah, we know Tyler.

John Dehlin [00:33:47] Yeah, he did An Honest Liar, which is the documentary about the Amazing Randy.

Scott Beck [00:33:52] Yeah, we're huge students of, of, of An Honest Liar. Tyler's work is on, on that documentary is, is incredible. And, and James Randy has always been a inspirational figure to us from the standpoint of like, deconstructing, for instance, like Peter Popoff Ministries and, and seeing how religion had been perverted by his commercialization and predatory natures of, of taking advantage of people. That we're looking for something greater in life.

Bryan Woods [00:34:22] And that, that kind of thing really bothers us. Right? Like using people's good intentions, their, their, their belief and, and love for humanity and their pursuit of trying to be great people. To have to. For somebody to prey on that and use that to fill their pockets is disturbing to us. We don't like it. And so in many ways, Randy's a hero from that, that aspect of.

John Dehlin [00:34:48] Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so let's jump to a couple maybe more specific things if that's okay. So, so accuracy. So I was stunned by how thoughtful, well written and accurate, you know, your explication of Mormonism was. Have you gotten any feedback yet from Mormons or ex Mormons about things that, that you may have not gotten quite right before? I mentioned a couple I I just want.

Bryan Woods [00:35:20] There's one that's driving us absolutely crazy because. And maybe it's on your list. There's one that keeps coming up. It drives us crazy because we talked to at least 10 people about it and they all disagreed and agreed. And finally we just had to go. We're just going with like, what works for the story.

Scott Beck [00:35:41] You're talking about the Topher Grace thing

Bryan Woods [00:35:43] for Grace is Elder Kennedy. And at least 10 people were like, yeah, it, it's, it, it fits if it was this person and that. But it's a conditional and I'd have to go through emails to pull up that character. Do you know what we're talking about?

John Dehlin [00:36:00] No, no, no. Well, I, I was gonna mention Kennedy, but tell me what you're talking about first.

Bryan Woods [00:36:04] Well, just, just, just the name, the notion. I think people are like, what does he do in the church? He doesn't have, I don't understand. He's too old to be a brother. He doesn't have a partner, but he's in the church and he's sweeping late at night. And what is his position? By far the biggest, like, pushback we've had from LDS community is like, that we don't understand how that character makes any sense. And all I can do is pull up emails after email of like, if he was this age and he was in the church at this point and it did. It's all these qualifiers. It allegedly makes sense to, to somebody approve this decision, but it's kind of just laugh because people are picking at it.

John Dehlin [00:36:42] I'm sure y' all know that when believers are defending something, they're going to just find any excuse they can to then delegitimize the film.

Scott Beck [00:36:51] Yeah.

Bryan Woods [00:36:51] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:36:52] What did you find?

Bryan Woods [00:36:53] What else did we, what else did we mess up?

John Dehlin [00:36:55] Oh, no, the, the only thing is like, he comes across as a missionary, but Mormon missionaries are always in two. So I want a missionary there would never be a missionary alone, basically. No, no.

Bryan Woods [00:37:05] Yeah, he's not a missionary in our minds. He's. Again, I'd have to pull up our research.

Scott Beck [00:37:08] And I remember like, one of the biggest debates was that we, we wanted him to be at the church to a certain degree. That was to service like the plot. That was one of those things that after enough like back and forth and hearing contradictory things, we need to service the plot. But we, we also were like, well, we need to give him a name tag because you want that visual reference. And, and that was one of the, the hot debated items that he might have worn the name tag. Like, if this were 30 years ago in the church, but probably not nowadays.

Bryan Woods [00:37:36] But if he's. But if he's old school, then he could do it. You know, it's like all these qualifiers. It's not, it's not everybody. It's a very specific person.

John Dehlin [00:37:44] It does not matter at all to people.

Scott Beck [00:37:46] No, that one doesn't.

John Dehlin [00:37:47] Who are cool and smart. You know what I mean? It's just. It's just dumb people who are not acting in good faith that would make that criticism. Oh, okay. The other thing that was hilarious and totally something. I doubt. I don't know. I was. You know what? On the one hand, I would say that conversation at the beginning with the Sister missionaries talking about porn and, you know, on the one hand, I would say never would ever happen in a gazillion years. On the other hand, who knows, right? But that's something Mormons are going to say is a conversation that would possibly never happen.

Scott Beck [00:38:24] Yeah, I. I mean, yes, that's. That's one of those things where for us, never say never. I mean, I. Yeah, like, you know, not. Not having grown up LDs, but, but certainly growing up at the church that I did, the conversations that happen in the back of that church during sermon, like, sometimes, like enough to make your. Your hair blow off. Like, it's just like you. For us, that's where it comes down to the storytelling. And also, is there a way to project what. What Paxton's arc is going to be, meaning that she sees divine confirmation in this rather silly story that she's talking about watching this pornography, but.

Scott Beck [00:39:06] But also investigating, like, what's their relationship, what's their dynamic? How does Sister Barnes react to who Paxton is? And trying to get across the idea that missionaries are paired together in a way that they're not instantaneously best friends, but there's a disconnect there as well. And also speaking to the degree about. About marketing and speaking at first about how these Magnum condoms are marketed, but how that comes around to the idea of missionaries themselves being certain degrees of, you know, salespeople.

Bryan Woods [00:39:35] But, Scott, I feel like you're justifying it in terms of, like, what we needed it to do. But I'm also just going to come out and say, we know these people, we wrote these characters, these characters would talk about that. They did talk about it, and the way they talked about it was true to who they are. Like, I absolutely think it's. It's true. And I understand if some people watch the movie and go, well, we would have Never talked about that on our mission. It's like, well, yeah, you. You wouldn't have, but these girls did. You know what I mean? Like, they did and that you're not them.

John Dehlin [00:40:05] So I love it. I love it. Well, that was going to be. My next question is like, to the extent that you're comfortable, I know the movie speaks for itself, but. But a lot of the thought of the analysis was, you know, what to take from. From Paxton's arc, from Barnes's arc, and even from Reed's arc, and, you know, what. What to make of that. So, I mean, should we not even talk about their arc and what to make of it is. Or should we just say go see the movie and maybe end the interview early? I'm just kidding.

Themes of Faith, Doubt, and Human Decency

Scott Beck [00:40:34] Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, I think there's a bit that we can touch upon. I. I think the entry point maybe to that answer is that for Brian and I, like, there's a bit of us in every single character.

Scott Beck [00:40:47] There's a bit of us in Reed where I think the analytical aspect of how Reid is looking at the world's religions and how we come to our own conclusions, that's very much Brian and I. It's our fascination with religion to a darker degree. It's our fascination with cults.

Scott Beck [00:41:07] I think in Barnes, if there's like a triangle of where each of these characters land on the spectrum, she's kind of in the middle. Like, she came into the church as a convert. She suffered the loss of her father, which certainly colors anybody's relationship with the greater unknown questions of life and existence. And then Paxton is painted more as naive at first. But I don't want to say too much about the movie, but there's more that meets the eye for Paxton's perspective.

Bryan Woods [00:41:44] And I think you can say about Paxton without. Without stepping on anyone's interpretation. I think it's definitely fair to say that her concept of divine confirmation, her concept of what is true and not, starts from the broadest kind of, gee whiz, like, wow, kind of innocent place, and over the course of the movie becomes far more nuanced and introspective. And I think that. That I don't think necessarily think saying that is, you know, stepping on internal.

Scott Beck [00:42:19] No, and I, I think too, like, I, I. Upon reflection of the. Because it's like, we make the movie, our heads are kind of buried in the sand during the production, and. And you get to be introspection, introspective on what the meaning of the story is. Like, before you make the movie because you're, you're looking at the script, you're reacting to the script, but then you also get to finally react once the movie is out in the world. And in between those two points, usually you're just like focused on the day to day of getting it done. But one thing that I've found from reading certain people's viewpoints on the film has been kind of beautiful in the respect that somebody was commenting on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and they were speaking as a Christian, but they were like, now do I actually believe in this wholeheartedly in terms of every little detail that happened, or do I look at the story and the meaning of the resurrection of somebody giving their life for, for the greater good of like, sins of humankind as being a beautiful metaphor of how you treat the world.

Scott Beck [00:43:22] And to me, that is an active way, again, whether you are religious or non religious, that's like an active way to live as a good human being, to look out for the betterment of others. And I think when looking at the characters and Sister Pax and again, without speaking too much about the movie in hopes that people that haven't seen it see it, I think there is a core theme of that running in the movie, and certainly Sister Paxton is emblematic of that.

John Dehlin [00:43:48] I just, I was dumbfounded, you know, because I, I lost my faith, my Mormon faith in 2001, reading books probably similar to the ones you read. But I stayed in the church another 13 years as a non believer, as an active non believer, because I found so much value in it. And let's just. Without giving things away, there are parts in the movie where you talk about a false binary and about things, including religions, having more value than either being all true or all false, but instead having different shades of value and even metaphorical or mythical value made the movie infinitely more profound to me because I think that's such a crucial insight and it's the type of nuance that's so lost in sort of the Hitchens and even Dawkins, you know, treatment of religion.

Scott Beck [00:44:39] Yeah, you know, yeah, certainly. I mean, I like we, we. Anecdotally, somebody talked to us about. It was Dawkins and Brandon Flowers.

John Dehlin [00:44:49] Right?

Scott Beck [00:44:49] The, the interview that we saw where. I forget what talk show was this, this happened a while ago. But, you know, Brandon Flowers being, it seems like a fairly devout Mormon, Dawkins was invited and then started picking apart Mormonism. But I think Flowers was just there to, to perform as part of the Killers. And, and so there wasn't like a discourse to be had. But the way that Dawkins kind of laid into things felt in that small little moment very just dogmatic of like, your faith is false. There's nothing.

Bryan Woods [00:45:20] It was. It was. It was rude.

Scott Beck [00:45:21] Yeah, it was rude. It was rude.

Bryan Woods [00:45:23] It was not a thoughtful way of.

Scott Beck [00:45:25] And I think that's. That's certainly, like Brian said earlier, the divide that we see more and more, especially on the. On the heels of the election last week. Week, like, certainly in politics, it's just as incendiary as religion can be. And I think for us, if there's something that's scary about religion, it's that sometimes people approach it so dogmatically or that in order to be a part of our organization or our church, you have to live exactly this way. And human beings are infinitely complex and we infinitely change over the course of our many years on this planet. And so to feel like you're.

Scott Beck [00:46:02] You're in an organization, but you're a failure because you're not meeting these, you know, spoken, you know, laws or bylaws or however you phrase it, that to us is. Is harmful. And that's why I think, like, with religion, if there's a beauty there, it's in the personal relationship. And I think if there's a danger there, sometimes it's the organizational aspect of it that oversteps its bounds. Certainly in the United States, it directs how we. How we enforce our laws or what the groupthink of the United States is. And then we're just like. It's totally starts feeling more and more binary these days.

John Dehlin [00:46:38] Love it. Love it. I'm sure Brandon will be happy to hear someone sort of come to his defense a little bit because that wasn't, I'm sure, his happiest moment.

Scott Beck [00:46:48] Yeah, yeah. Look pretty. Pretty soul crushing.

John Dehlin [00:46:51] Yeah. And he is, as far as I know, he's still very devout, and so that's fun. Okay, well, I don't know. You tell me if this is out of bounds and we can edit it. But I will say without also wanting to give anything away, you know, there was much more that you got so right in the movie in terms of the Mormon Church, you know, there's. I don't know if you're aware. You probably are. This idea of, in Mormonism, mother, and we believe in a mother in heaven, but Mother in heaven is silent and Mother in heaven is invisible. And also in the Mormon temple ceremony, historically, women have always veiled their faces. That sort of symbolism was mind blowing to me.

Bryan Woods [00:47:39] Appreciate that.

Scott Beck [00:47:40] Yeah.

Bryan Woods [00:47:41] There is, like, I guess for us, it's maybe subtextual at this point. It used to be more overt in the script, but we're definitely exploring the kind of gender dynamics in religion and religion, at least large. Certainly the Mormon, you know, culture is. Is a part of this. No. No question. But, you know, just starting. Just going all the way back to the beginning of religion. The idea of a bunch of dudes in the desert kind of coming together to write these stories, and then it gets passed on from dude to dude to dude, and. And even, like, in, like, you know, Catholicism, like, the idea that the. The Pope is always. Is always a man, and. And obviously in the LDS Church, you know, there's a lot of. We've detected. We've sensed, and you can tell us if we're right or wrong, but we've sensed a lot of tension between

Scott Beck [00:48:36] the

Bryan Woods [00:48:36] responsibilities between men and women in the church. This idea of, like.

John Dehlin [00:48:46] Yeah.

Bryan Woods [00:48:46] You know what I'm saying? Like, there's like, a kind of patriarchal vibe even as much as, like, you know, we've heard people talk about, like, the difference between what boys do during, like, camp versus what the. What the women do.

Scott Beck [00:49:02] Yeah.

Bryan Woods [00:49:03] Not being on the same level.

Scott Beck [00:49:04] And I think then, like, swinging to the extreme version of it, you know, we're reacting to, you could say the FLDS and, like, Warren Jeffs to Keith Renari and the Nexium cult. And. And the idea that since it feels like the beginning of humankind, women have been subservient to men, certainly in so many different holy texts. So that's. Yeah. Again, it's, like, very latent in the

Bryan Woods [00:49:33] movie, but it's also. It's. It's also a thing that's part of the cultural conversation right now. So you didn't feel the need personally to get into it? Like, again, I want to say there was more dialogue about this kind of feeling in the air, but it just didn't. It didn't need to be said. It's like we're tired. Like, we're kind of tired of, as a culture of hearing it. Like, we get it. Like, it's. It's like it's time for stuff to change, and it has been, you know, moving in the right direction, but it. Yeah, it's. It was.

John Dehlin [00:50:02] Loved it loved it so much. My. My understanding of the press materials is that both of the main actresses were raised Mormon and Talk whatever you want to about that casting process, and if there's anything you're able to share about what it's like having Mormons slash ex Mormons play sister missionaries in a movie.

Casting, Sequels, and Future Projects

Scott Beck [00:50:26] Yeah, I mean, the casting process was one where we went in blind, meaning we were just looking for the best actors, period. And Chloe and Sophie, who plays Paxton Barnes, they kept coming to the top of our list, and we kept bringing them back for callbacks. There was something so authentic about them. And then when we finally paired them up for, like, the quote unquote chemistry read where you see them, you know, audition together, they nailed this. This embodiment of what a sister missionary is like being somewhat like for them, it was like being somewhat withheld. They were somewhat uncomfortable, but. But doing their best on this, on the shared mission that they have. And then only then did we discover, like, their Mormon background throughout the process.

Bryan Woods [00:51:12] Anyone who listens to your show would have heard what we heard when Chloe was auditioning, which is like that classic, just kind of. I don't even know what to call it. Like, missionary accent, Utah accent. Like, I don't even know how to characterize it. But this pattern, this way of speaking. When she auditioned, we instantly recognized the truth in it. We were like, oh, my gosh, like Carmen Cuba, our amazing casting director, we're like, can you find 12 more of these? Like, she's doing something. And we couldn't quite put our finger on it. We just knew it. Like, we heard it. She's doing it right. And then it was a discovery for us finding out that she was raised in a Mormon family. And then it all made sense. Like, oh, of course. Like, she knows. Like, she's not. It's not like an accident. Like, she knows. She knows how to channel that.

Scott Beck [00:51:55] And it's one of those really, really amazing things, though. The confluence of going through the casting session and discovering that they had this Mormon relationship was that when you're on set, you can pressure test everything and they have the ability to challenge. I remember, like, Chloe taking a picture before she went on set with. With a bunch of her sister missionary friends. And she was able to have, like, a direct line to, like, check on things or if there's few moments of them improving. But there's one scene where at the beginning of the film where they're going up the stairs and. And Chloe makes a mention about, like, for every flight of stairs we go, like, our husband gets ten times hotter.

Scott Beck [00:52:39] And. And we've had so many, like, active LDS members, like, comment on the reality of, like, that being, like a joking thing that you say. There was another moment later in the film when things get a little scarier that Sister Barnes needs to leave the room and separate herself from Sister Paxton. And this ended up being cut from the film for time's sake. But Sister Paxton mentions about, like, sight and sound the idea that when you're on a mission, you should not separate yourself from your other missionary. And so little, like, truths like that started surfacing throughout the course of making this movie because of their relationship to the church.

John Dehlin [00:53:14] Love it. Yeah. No, absolutely. Mormon missionary men believe and tell each other that. That the more they baptize, the hotter their wives, the hotter their wives will be. That's the thing that'll.

Scott Beck [00:53:26] That'll be in the sequel.

John Dehlin [00:53:27] I guess I was gonna ask that. Will there be a sequel? And do you plan on doing and. Or do you plan on doing, you know, other movies that. That touch on religion?

Bryan Woods [00:53:39] Well, you know, ironically, as the creators of A Quiet Place, we're actually not sequel guys. We love kind of, like original. Like, we love trying to, like, try new stuff. We have a couple ideas for a spiritual sequel to Heretic that unpacks another kind of conversational topic. And I think. I think we're very interested in religion, obviously, and in skepticism. So I wouldn't be surprised if those themes and ideas show up in our. In our. In our next work.

Scott Beck [00:54:12] Yeah, I think, like, for us, it's always tackling, like, what. What are we. We wrestling with personally? And. And it's been more Trojan tours in. In the prior films, you know, Quiet Place was very much steeped on the idea of broken communication within a family, which I. I think Everybody can relate to.65. To a certain degree, this. This is so deep tissue. So maybe it's. It feels silly to even talk about, but the idea of Adam Driver's character being away from his family for so long, like, that's what it's like to be on a film set. Like, you're gone from your family sometimes upwards of six months, and you start wrestling with the idea of, why am I doing this?

Scott Beck [00:54:50] Like, is the creativity or the idea of trying to get a message out to people through the embodiment of a film really worth separating yourself from your own personal life? And heroic. Obviously, we're wearing on our sleeve some of the greatest question that we'll ever have answers to about what happens when you die and the pursuit of relationships with the great unknown. So I think those are things we're going to be scratching until we die. So as long as we can make movies, I think there'll be undercurrents.

Bryan Woods [00:55:22] I will say, unfortunately, we do have a Great idea for a prequel and a great idea for a sequel.

Scott Beck [00:55:27] True. Yeah.

Bryan Woods [00:55:28] So you never know. I don't want to say it will happen happen, because we do have a good idea.

Scott Beck [00:55:32] Yeah. I will say, like the one, the one benefit of making this movie is like a studio, like a 24 has been really exciting on a movie like this because when we had the script, it was like, take it to a studio. And there were a few studios that were really interested, some big places, but they were interested in more the thriller aspect of it, like the cat and mouse, and they wanted to strip out the. The religious discourse and. And a place like A24 was unafraid to touch that. And so it's been exciting, to say the least, that this movie was able to get made the way it was made.

Scott Beck [00:56:05] And now we, we get to hear what audiences think again, even if they disagree in. In a very emotional way about the tenets of what this movie is saying. Like, to us, that's exciting because it's, it's invoking something personal. And it, this movie was made from something personal from us. So it's. It's been incredibly exciting to get that out into the world.

John Dehlin [00:56:27] Well, again, I'm going to say from someone who's dedicated his life to helping Mormons, I think this movie is probably going to have a bigger impact on my people than the Book of Mormon musical. And I don't think I could give higher praise. So on behalf of Mormons everywhere, Mormons and ex Mormons, again, I want to tell my audience, freaking see this movie, buy this movie, share this movie, bring your friends to this movie. Let's make this movie an Oscar winner of multiple Oscars, but also Scott and Ryan. Brian, I just, I really want to give you both a heartfelt thanks for creating the movie we've been needing and wanting for so long.

Scott Beck [00:57:07] Oh, that's incredible. John, thank you.

Bryan Woods [00:57:08] Very, very moving to hear that. Thank you so much for that.

Scott Beck [00:57:12] Wow.

John Dehlin [00:57:13] Really quick. Any blowback from the church? Legal blowback you could talk about criticisms, even contact with church headquarters or. No, no.

Scott Beck [00:57:22] I mean, I think, like, when the trailer came out through, like, our, our company, we started getting, you know, concerned Mormon parents whose kids are on. On missions. Nothing legal so far. Maybe that's because the lawsuits are pending and we'll hear from the attorney soon.

John Dehlin [00:57:38] But.

Scott Beck [00:57:38] But I, I have to say, surprisingly, not surprisingly, but because we knew, like, maybe this will touch a nerve. We don't know how it's going to impact our personal relationships with, with people still in the church or Not. It has been really exciting to actually feel like people engaging with the movie. And I think if somebody is having an issue with it and they haven't seen it, we do ask, you know, take the chance and watch it. And again, maybe you'll still have an issue when you see it, but hopefully it paints a more nuanced picture, which, again, is kind of the, the heart of what we're getting at is that things aren't black and white like we, we live in gray and in every human being, whether it's your political beliefs or your religious experiences.

John Dehlin [00:58:22] Brilliant. I love it. Okay, last question. You. You. This Gordon B. Hinckley quote. This is a nerdy question. The Gordon B. Hinckley quote of the church being either all true or all false. There's a couple possible citations for that. There's a general conference talk he gave, and then there's a PBS documentary where he said a similar statement are. Do y' all know which one you. You got the.

Research, Influences, and Closing Thoughts

Bryan Woods [00:58:43] I don't remember. I, I remember our research. I can see our document right now in my head, and I can see those. I, I, in my memory, I see three quotes Gordon B. Hinckley quotes. Maybe it was just two.

John Dehlin [00:58:56] Okay, Okay.

Bryan Woods [00:58:56] I remember picking the one that we felt that was best for the, the scene. I can't cite the, the reference off the top of my head. What I can say is, if I'm not mistaken, is. Isn't Sophie a distant relative?

Scott Beck [00:59:08] So, yeah, I believe if. Don't quote me on this, but I think Gordon B. Hinckley might be her great uncle, but she is, like, blood related to Gordon B. Hinckley.

John Dehlin [00:59:17] That's so awesome. Anything else we could do for you to help support this movie?

Scott Beck [00:59:23] Anything we can do, I think. No, I mean, I think what you've done just on this podcast alone, but speaking to your podcast at large is something that we, we greatly admire. The again, being two kids from Iowa that, that grew up in predominantly a Christian region where if you bring up religion, it felt taboo. It felt like people could get hurt feelings based on that, you could sever certain relationships. Having an open conversation about religion and, and faith and, and disconnecting from faith is, Is an incredibly important thing. So just.

Bryan Woods [00:59:58] And Scott and I have been talking about how. So we've traveled with the movie a little bit. We had an amazing premiere in, in Toronto and, you know, played in front of 2,000 people. And then we did a thousand people at the Chinese Theater in Los Angeles, which was a childhood dream come true. Premiering, playing the movie there. And, and we did Chicago and on and on. And we were kind of talking about like, wow, like this. The movie's out into the world. It's finally over. It's done. Like, no more screenings. Like, that's kind of it. And, and, and that will, that will be that.

Bryan Woods [01:00:30] And, and then upon having that conversation, we're like, well, no, like we're actually. The one thing we are missing is a screening in Utah. Like, we would love to. I'm not putting this on your shoulders, by the way, but I was just thinking, I was musing as you were, as you were asking us what, what's the one last thing? And it's, it would be so fun to go to Utah to get Salt Lake City or Provo or wherever and show the movie and have a conversation about it. And again, I'm not saying that that's your responsibility, but if you ever wanted to be a part of something like that. How fun. And how interesting.

John Dehlin [01:01:04] Brethren, brethren. I sold out my screening in three hours. If y' all want to do a screening, we are absolutely here for it. Have your people reach out to me and we'll make it happen.

Bryan Woods [01:01:15] Well, let's, let's do that because it's really, is the, it feels like the, the way to put a bow on, on the experience of making this film would be, you know, us being there in Utah and sharing it with, talking about it.

John Dehlin [01:01:27] Beautiful. Well, the movie is heretic. It's in theaters now. It's gonna go, I'm assuming it's gonna go to streaming at some point.

Scott Beck [01:01:35] Yeah, I think it'll, it'll be on streaming. I'm guessing with the release window, like, it could be as soon as, like December, like January at this point. So.

John Dehlin [01:01:42] Okay. But right now it's in theaters and we hope it stays in theaters for, for as long because I, I can't imagine this is a theater worthy movie.

Bryan Woods [01:01:52] Yeah, it's all about the audience ride. It's all about laughing with, you know, 100 strangers and being frightened with them and then talking about it as you spill into the lobby.

John Dehlin [01:02:01] Well, let's get you into a room full of Mormons and ex Mormons to watch the movie. I think you'll love that experience.

Scott Beck [01:02:06] That'd be great.

Bryan Woods [01:02:07] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:02:08] All right. All right, well, Scott Beck and Brian woods, the movie is heretic. Question everything, including secularism. Thank you both for coming on Mormon Stories and for the gift of your movie to the world and to our people. Thank you.

Scott Beck [01:02:22] Thank you, John. Appreciate it.

John Dehlin [01:02:24] All right, and thanks everyone for joining us today on Mormon Stories. We couldn't do this without your Support. Go to MormonStories.org if you want to become a supporter, if you want to keep this program alive. And please, please check out Heretic. And thank you to A24 Studios for giving us this important movie. Be good to each other, be kind to each other, and we'll see you all again soon on another episode of Mormon Stories podcast. Take care, everybody.

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