Heart of the Matter’s Shawn McCraney sits down with John to have a discussion about:

  • (Part 1) John’s Mormon story,
  • (Part 2) The history of Mormon Stories and how his motivation behind the podcast has transformed over time, and
  • (Part 3) An interesting back-and-forth as John gives his take on Christian concepts including God, sin, redemption, and much more.

Continuing a theme this year of capturing updates from some of our most impactful past interviews, in the coming weeks John will interview Shawn again to see what life has been like since his Mormon Stories interview released February 2010!

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 1

Download MP3

Part 2

Download MP3

Part 3

Download MP3


  1. Dwayne May 2, 2018 at 8:32 pm - Reply

    In the past, and again upon watching this Podcast; I have to wonder, is Joseph Smith the only *free thinker* Mormonism has ever allowed? A teaching that has puzzled me forever is the doctrine of eternal families. Don’t get me wrong. If there’s a heaven, there has to be eternal families, but that’s my point. What is the opposite? Are we to suppose that God, the eternal father, may have had an earthly mother or son whom he loved dearly but because they only made it to the telestial kingdom, He is allowed to only visit them occasionally and they can never come and see him? Is that eternal glory?

    In the end, Mormonism became too much about forcing me to believe what Joseph’s *free thinking* led him to believe. I want the same freedoms Joseph embraced but fully realize that within group associations, there is always a leader and always a limit on *free thinking*.

  2. beth bunnage May 3, 2018 at 1:28 pm - Reply

    Thank you John for this exciting really great interview you had with shawn maccraney, l really hope that you will have shawn back on to Mormon stories and have a really good discussion about where shawn is at now, it was really great to hear your honest feelings on joseph smith and Mormonism and where you are actually at now within your spirituality, thank you for sharing with us all, l am thoroughly enjoying listening you have some great catch ups with scholars and historians and other people from the past, do keep them coming, its absolutely great, so interesting and enjoyable and l loved seeing shawn again, l hope it won’t be long before you bring him back on Mormon stories for a good catch up, thanks john for all your hard work,

  3. Dot May 4, 2018 at 6:39 am - Reply

    As for me and my house, we will serve the interests of lovingkindness wherever it takes us. Thank you both. You know that you have the same first names, don’t you? Good men, both. From a faraway Irish granny.

  4. Wei May 8, 2018 at 8:27 am - Reply

    Could some one help me on the movies that John watched while he was in BYU? Very interested to watch. Very sorry for my English and culture barrier.

  5. Me May 8, 2018 at 1:15 pm - Reply

    Part 3 was great Loved it !
    Love what you both do

  6. CorveyMichaels May 8, 2018 at 11:33 pm - Reply

    An idea: All meaning all are loved by God! Where does that leave justice? Any person that was destructive has a penance to pay but will never be lost. The penance is that eternal joy may be obtained only when and after the destructiveness has been made whole. Thus, a person committing an unjust act upon another must use their eternal life awaiting or making whole the injustice act. So, a hypothetical example is that a person such as Hilter may have to endure an external time extent until the millions of affected persons are made whole. Then and only then a continuance on the path to joy may be pursued further.

  7. John Smith May 9, 2018 at 12:40 am - Reply

    That’s so cool you answered Wei’s question about which films you had referred to. The wife and I are confirmed cinephiles and were elated to hear how film affected and changed you. We definitely know what you mean. We have looked forward to and immensely enjoyed these episodes the last three weeks and are sorry to see them end. I said, how cool would it be if you two did a weekly show together outside of your own respective shows?! Thank you John Dehlin for being another Light shining into the darkness. We appreciate you.

  8. HENRY ROLLINS May 9, 2018 at 5:31 pm - Reply

    Great interview, so interesting that even John D. wouldn’t have chosen to get ex-ed, In Utah its the culture not just religion. Its at school, work, sports games etc, so it makes sense why so many just stay for the social aspect of it. I think very similar to both of you, I have looked back and forth, in and out, and read many books about our bodies, the biology of our cells, the workings of the universe and why our planet it like it is. I just always come back to this, its for a purpose and energy is real, there is no way we are just gone after this life. In-fact our billion of body cells are like computer chips and they are not just randomly put together. When you keep your faith in human beings and our amazing planet and universe, its so much easier to look at even the most judgmental in our wards and high and mighty church just as part of the universal plan to have us choose for ourselves which path is good. It is so freeing though, to not have it to have anything to do with thinking, am I keeping all the commandments. Its all about the energy from nature and the universal being or energy that gave us life, Its amazing! It is also very cool to see that no matter what religion you belong to when you follow the teachings of Christ in the NT your a pretty darn good person and you just dont worry about all the stuff. Whether he is real or not doesn’t matter, the teaching just kick butt.

  9. Leslie May 16, 2018 at 5:40 pm - Reply

    Love this interview! Shawn and you are so funny, and delightful to watch!

  10. Steve May 17, 2018 at 8:41 am - Reply

    I like Shawn McCraney – I served a mission with his brother Beau in Hawaii, I understand the McCraney family. John and Shawn are both doing great work. John could learn some interviewing skills from Shawn. For those of you who don’t know, Shawn was a Huntington Beach lifeguard and paddle board raced to Catalina Island 26 miles in open water – kind of a big deal if you grew up in southern California.

  11. Steve May 17, 2018 at 8:43 am - Reply

    “Who is Jack White?” Seriously John……are you really in that much of a bubble?????

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