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  1. I started listening. I have to stop for doing something else, so, I listenend until 108 minutes: and it’s GREAT! I’m so curious for the rest. This talk gave me a lot of insight in men’s ideas and mind. And I love to learn more. The song ‘Stir it up!’ from Bob Marley (if I’m right?) keeps singing in my mind and has been giving a whole new meaning: ‘Stir it up!’ means for me: give me more things to think about and workout ! Can’t wait till I hear the rest. I would like to comment on certain things, but maybe it’s not needed, so, I first want to hear the rest before I comment.

    I will comment on one thing:
    At about 15 minutes Lance says, his granddad made 7 women happy, while he failed making one woman happy. Once there has been taken away all your freedom, and the only thing you hope for is surviving so you will be there when you will be freed and at last be able to live your own life: smile is a tool for surviving, not for showing you are happy ! Or at least it is showing to be happy to have survived so far, hopefully closer to the moment you are freed ! Probably the wives of your grandfather never have been freed, and have just only lived wasted lives, due to polygamy and to patriarchy insanity. Women aren’t men ! Women surely aren’t the women they are expected to be according to patriarchy rules. We are surviving, with our womenhood in our genes, veins and blood, holding on to the memory that is stuck in there and look forward to and hope once to live that way again. We are still merely surviving in these lives today ! We are breathing, smiling, playing the game along, only for that day to happen that we will be freed and be able to LIVE !

    It’s hard I’m called to do something else … can’t wait for what Lance has to tell us ! You make me very happy with your ideas ! It feels like maybe there will be the missing piece, like we still haven’t found the missing link between ape and men, that will make a bridge in finding each other again as man and woman. I believe in your sincerity, Lance ! And thank you so much, John, for bringing him to us in the podcast with his insights !!!!!!

    Peace,
    Adriana de Jong
    The Netherlands

  2. Dear John and Lance;
    Please accept my sincere gratitude for the frank and enlightening conversation between you guys. I listened this afternoon while I worked, and then I went straight to Amazon and purchased Lance`s book which I am about halfway through at this writing. It is a little more in the Self Help category than I expected, but it is still quite good and very well written.
    I can appreciate (if not relate to) nearly everything that Lance has to share. This morning, I was listening to another audiobook about the Evangelical movement, and it is chocked full of example after example of toxic masculinity that dominates that sect of Christianity. Alpha, Warrior, Patriarchy, and misogyny were everywhere! I was really struggling to get through the book, and finally gave up. Anyways, I thought why not listen to a couple of episodes of Mormon Stories to fill the afternoon sound waves, and I saw this episode and almost did not listen because I had my fill of the masculine side. But I am very glad that I did. If more men could escape their “childhood” paradigm, this Nation and the World would be a much more sane place to live.

    As for me, I have come to believe that testosterone is the single most dangerous substance in the world. I feel that I have learned everything good that testosterone and masculinity can teach me. So a year ago, I began a regimen to remove it from my body and my life, not so much because it was making me a crazy version of the macho men that dominate the world these days, but because it was enlarging my prostrate, and pushing out my hair, and most important, it was getting in the way of me really being able to understand the female side of my existence.

    I have a Gnostic belief that Jesus Christ came down to this Earthly realm to show Men and Women that we must learn to integrate the male and the female until we are neither male nor female. This and many other rites must be integrated within ourselves to make us worthy to enter the Heavenly realm. I believe this is because God does not want a bunch of alpha macho males and their subservient wives in his Heaven. I will strive to leave this Earth with an integrated soul that has learned to forgo the trappings of this Earthly existence. I will strive to be able to say that yes, I was once that flawed man, but I am not that now, I have transcended that being.

    And finally John, thank you so much for sharing with me, and your listening audience your experience strength, and hope. Even though I do not know you personally, and even though I am not now nor have I ever been Mormon, your podcasts touch me in a personal way. That is because we are fellow travelers on a spiritual journey.

  3. Really enjoyed and appreciated this discussion. A lot of profound insights here and positive approaches to tackling some of our social ills. I would have loved to have sat at a round table discussion for this topic and added some nuance of my own to the discussion. One of those ideas would be to add that the archtypes and mythos are not necessarily or always bad. Human beings are also extraordinary Team Builders and it is the Binding Narrative that creates cohesion for the team. Teams necessarily require some sacrifice of the self, wear a uniform, dedicate a large amount of time and resources, ritual practice to improve the team’s effectiveness, regulations of behavior, designate an appointed leader. When such roles are well defined with a balance of respect to the individual within the team unit and with informed, voluntary participation (like a basketketball team, or an agricultural company, or a company building rockets to mars, or a neighborhood barbecue, or even a marriage), these things, even the Archtypes we adopt and the Mythos we propagate are positives. It’s also good to step back and examine if our team effort has over reached its objective and grown into something it was not intended for, and I think that is a lot of what we are hearing in this interview, an examination of the masculine team effort in society as a whole.

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