In part three of our series on the Spirituality of the Rising LDS Generation, we interview Loyd Ericson – UVSC student of philosophy. In this interview Loyd discusses his estrangement from, and eventual reconciliation w/ the LDS church. He also discusses his views on the LDS church’s approach to public relations and war.
For more on Loyd, check out his blog here.
Episode Transcript
Host: John Dehlin · Guest: Loyd Ericson
This transcript is machine-generated and lightly edited for readability. The audio is authoritative. Please excuse occasional errors in names and spelling.
Introduction and Background with the Church
John Dehlin [00:00:19] So what's your name?
Loyd Ericson [00:00:20] My name is Lloyd Ericson.
John Dehlin [00:00:22] And where are you from?
Loyd Ericson [00:00:23] Grew up in Sandy, Utah, for the most part.
John Dehlin [00:00:25] Sandy, Utah. What's that like?
Loyd Ericson [00:00:29] It's good. It was a lot of fun where I lived. A lot of people were moving in from California, so you get a little bit more diversity. A lot different from here, where I'm living now in Orem, Utah.
John Dehlin [00:00:42] Are you a BOE student?
Loyd Ericson [00:00:43] No, I go to uvsc.
John Dehlin [00:00:44] Uvsc? What are you studying?
Loyd Ericson [00:00:46] Philosophy and religious studies.
John Dehlin [00:00:49] Philosophy, that's dangerous.
Loyd Ericson [00:00:52] Some people think it's dangerous, but I guess it could be dangerous and it has been dangerous. But it's something I enjoy. It's a passion of mine.
John Dehlin [00:01:00] Do you know Dennis Potter?
Loyd Ericson [00:01:01] Oh, I know Dennis, yeah. Good friends with Dennis.
John Dehlin [00:01:07] So to what extent? Talk a little bit about your church experience in terms of how you're feeling now relative to the church. Good, bad, indifferent.
Loyd Ericson [00:01:23] My experience with the church has been a huge roller coaster. I grew up in a really conservative family, sort of mission in Hawaii, all this fun stuff. And then maybe three years ago I found myself having a lot of doubts to the point where I pretty much decided there was no God. Decided I was never going to step into a church again.
John Dehlin [00:01:42] What led to this?
Loyd Ericson [00:01:44] It's interesting. A lot of it was frustrations with different policy issues with the church. The church fighting gay marriage, the church's reaction to the war in Iraq kind of bothered me. But those were never real issues to me, declaring myself an atheist or anything like that. It was more just frustrations. And then just one day I woke up and just didn't feel anything anymore.
John Dehlin [00:02:09] Have you had spiritual experiences as we recognized them in the past?
Loyd Ericson [00:02:13] Oh yeah, I've had several of those. And they just all of a sudden just seemed like abstract memories that didn't belong to me anym.
John Dehlin [00:02:20] Did you redefine them or did you just dismiss them?
Loyd Ericson [00:02:24] I just forgot them in a lot of ways, I guess redefined. I just said, okay, well, it's just emotions from different because he had a lot of my mission and whatnot. We just say, well, they're just emotions or just coincidence, chance, stuff like that.
John Dehlin [00:02:39] So the main issue were there any issues you can pinpoint that led to this sort of you waking up one day and saying it's not what you thought?
Loyd Ericson [00:02:50] Probably some of my studies in philosophy with metaphysics just kind of irked me a lot. Just the notion of and maybe some epistemological, like, can I really know anything? And those kind of issues kind of just stuck at me to the Point where I just felt like the idea of God was just unbelievable anymore.
John Dehlin [00:03:08] So philosophy is dangerous for faith.
Loyd Ericson [00:03:11] It is dangerous, but at the same time it can be redeeming. Because while this was a period of my life that lasted about two years, but through other different studying of philosophy and whatnot, I gained a different perspective on my religious beliefs. And now I consider myself an active believing Mormon.
John Dehlin [00:03:29] So you're now an active believing Mormon?
Loyd Ericson [00:03:31] Yeah.
John Dehlin [00:03:31] Having felt you're an atheist and disaffected from the church, how did you turn that around?
Loyd Ericson [00:03:39] Well, as far as being like, first I was like, there is no God. It's all whatever. I wouldn't say a lie, but it's just people misunderstanding things, just whatever. But then I decided that that hard atheist stance was just as. At least at that time I thought it was just as foolish as my previous strong theist stance. And so I decided, well, I'm just more of an agnostic. And one thing I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed being a part of the church. I mean, it was a culture that I grew up in and it's something I didn't want to believe. And so I found myself just going to church on Sundays and just going, you know, and I didn't pray, I didn't pay tithing, I didn't do any of those things.
Loyd Ericson [00:04:19] You know, I still lived the standards at that time. I still never broken a word of wisdom, was being chased, all that stuff. And I just was going every Sunday. Eventually I met with my bishop and I just let him know, like, look, this is me. I don't believe these things, but this is what I like. I love the Book of Mormon. Even when I thought it was just written by Joseph Smith, I thought it was just this phenomenal text that I just really enjoyed. And I just admired Joseph Smith like crazy and the work that he was trying to do.
Loyd Ericson [00:04:50] And so by doing that, just participating more, I eventually, and with some good friends and whatnot, I started having this desire to actually not just participate, but have that believing feeling again. And as I started gaining that desire, just, it just led to me wanting to pray again and whatnot. To me, that just led to some experiences that made me just feel like, wow, there is a God out there who does answer my prayers. I still have doubts at times. I still have plenty of frustrations with the church here and there, but I consider myself a believing active Mormon now, though sometimes other people might question that, but at least that's the way I feel.
From Belief to Doubt and Finding Resources
John Dehlin [00:05:33] Do you have any role models or people that have been influential or books in helping you go from disbelieving, disaffected. Are there anything that's been helpful on that journey?
Loyd Ericson [00:05:47] I'd say the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein was really influential, just at least dealing with those metaphysical issues. I had problems with some instructors I've had at uvsc. Dennis Potter, Brian Burch have both been. They're both really good friends of mine, people I've been able to talk to a lot about these issues, other books. DZ Phillips, who was a professor that I was hoping to study before he died with last year, some of his writings helped me out a lot, just talking with people. Once I finally became really open with things when I was burying stuff, nothing ever got dealt with. But when I started talking with people and just being honest with the way I felt, I think that if anything, helped the most.
John Dehlin [00:06:35] Have you been exposed to Sunstone or dialogue at all?
Loyd Ericson [00:06:38] Oh, yeah. I probably started reading Sunstone a year or so after my mission. So I was six years ago. And then I've been going to the symposiums the last four years.
John Dehlin [00:06:48] Was Sunstone part of what contributed to
Loyd Ericson [00:06:50] your
John Dehlin [00:06:53] challenges and, and disbelief Originally?
Loyd Ericson [00:06:56] No. I would say, if anything, sunstone gave me a form where I felt like, okay, here are other people that share these same frustrations and here are people that are still active, still believing, you know, or people disaffected or whatever. But it gave me a place where I realized, hey, I'm not alone with these, with these feelings. And so I wouldn't say it led to the disaffection at all. I mean, if anything, I think if anything, it led to my disaffection. It was more of just more of that metaphysical, philosophical, just waking up one morning and just like, what's going on?
John Dehlin [00:07:35] Has sense centered dialogue been in any way helpful?
Loyd Ericson [00:07:38] Yeah, they've been helpful in a way that, like I said, one it gave me a place where I felt like, okay, I'm not alone with these questions. I'm not alone with these frustrations. And you know, and you can see that there's people who dealt with it in a certain way and people who weren't able to deal with it. And you just, you know, to me, it placed all my. It gave, it made me feel like, hey, it's okay for me to have these feelings. You know, it's not something that has to be shameful and helped me realize that, wow, there's a lot of people out here and I'm sure, you know, family and friends I have that might feel the same way, but just in this culture, there's.
Loyd Ericson [00:08:13] If you have doubts, it's a sign of weakness. And so it made me feel like, hey, I can have these doubts. And it's not a weakness. In some ways, it could be a strength.
John Dehlin [00:08:23] Do you have any sympathies for any groups or friends or types of people within the church that you see as being ostracized or alienated or disaffected or in any way not comfortable? Are there any groups or types of people that you. Your heart goes out to and that you see struggling with their relationship towards the church?
Loyd Ericson [00:08:47] Oh, yeah. I mean, if you're not the white male, you know, rich, conservative, Republican, Mormon, I think you're ostracized in some way. And so I have friends all the time, and unfortunately, I've had a lot of friends leave the church because they just couldn't stand being ostracized. And that's heartbreaking. And. And almost on a weekly basis, I swear, a monthly basis, I have a friend who comes to me and says they just can't handle going to church anymore. My heart really goes out to them, whether it's homosexuals, women who just feel like they're too much.
Loyd Ericson [00:09:21] They're not that. They're just less than men in the church, which you could say they are. Whether it's blacks who still feel like. Or Hispanics or whatever any kind of minority feels like, they're just not. People see them differently. Whether it's people from another country that have language issues, that don't get callings because people feel like they're stupid because they don't speak English well. I mean, all those kind of things I have sympathy for because I felt that. And even people have different political views. I mean, that's one of my frustrations. I feel like I go to elders quorum and everyone's touting how great President Bush is or holding a strong Republican line. You feel like if you disagree with them, then you're like worshiping Satan or something like that.
Current Church Experience, Hopes, and Frustrations
John Dehlin [00:10:06] So today, what is your church experience like, good and bad?
Loyd Ericson [00:10:13] It's here in Orem, as I express to friends, I feel lonely. A lot of times at church. I feel like if you don't. If you're a guy, if you don't come in a white shirt and tie in a suit, you don't have a faux hawk going with highlights in it, that something's wrong with you. You're not one of everyone else. And so a lot of times I feel like I'm going to church alone and feeling alone at Church just because I'm not like everyone else.
Loyd Ericson [00:10:43] But at the same time, I just come to accept that and realize, hey, if I stop going, if I stop really striving and having this desire, then it's all going to go downhill. You know, I have a wonderful bishopric who really supports me. They always reach out to me. And so, I mean, there's things I enjoy, there's things I get frustrated. I'm kind of well known in my ward as being the guy to raise his hand and object to whatever the Sunday school teacher is saying or at least offer some different view or something to try to take the monotony out of church.
John Dehlin [00:11:13] But you still feel welcome. You don't feel like that made you feel uncomfortable or like a pariah. You felt pretty decently tolerated.
Loyd Ericson [00:11:21] I feel tolerated. You know, I think sometimes people see me as, oh, that's Lloyd, who's going to, you know, might look a little different, or he wears sandals at church every Sunday. But so I think they, you know, now found me endearing, and maybe it's a little something exciting to find at church or something.
John Dehlin [00:11:42] Was there anything you had to do to make them feel less strict?
Loyd Ericson [00:11:47] Well, a year ago. A year ago, I got up in church. Actually, about a year ago, this very time, I got up during testimony meeting and just got up and I just came out. And at that time when I set a lot of doubts and disbelief, and I just came out and said, look, I'm up here. I don't know if there's a God. I don't know if these people are prophets. I don't know these things. But this is what I love about the gospel. This is what I love about the teachings. This is why I'm here. And I think once I was honest with everyone in the ward, they came to realize, hey, he might feel differently, but he's got something to offer and he's got this desire. Maybe they saw me as a project. Who knows? But they seem to accept me more.
John Dehlin [00:12:32] So being open and honest worked out pretty well for you in that regard. Do you have any. Do you have any hopes for change? The church is guided by revelation. It's not us to advise the brethren or study the Ark. But in your heart, do you ever have hopes for some type of improvement or change?
Loyd Ericson [00:12:58] Oh, yeah, I have to have hope for change.
John Dehlin [00:13:02] You're Martin Luther King. Take us to the mountain of the type of church you envision.
Loyd Ericson [00:13:07] The church I envision is a church that I think one is more socially involved. I mean, the church always says, oh, we're not involved with politics unless it's moral issues. But then for them, moral issues pretty much come down to gays and lesbians getting married. You know, I'd like to see a church that is willing to stand up, maybe like President Kimball, when President Kimball said was against a next missile, but a church that comes out and says, look, we're against war.
Loyd Ericson [00:13:35] We are all for helping those, helping out poverty and all that stuff, because maybe in some ways a church more that I maybe ideally see in Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, that really condemn the rich and really wanted to make social change, I see a church that.
Loyd Ericson [00:13:57] And I'm not sure which direction, but where women become more involved with the. Within the hierarchy, within the priesthood, whether that means just women have an equal share of the priesthood, or where the priesthood becomes more of something that's held by a husband and wife or between spouses or something like that.
Loyd Ericson [00:14:17] I see a church that comes out and just flat out says, we are wrong about blacks not receiving the priesthood. Instead of just saying all these things, you know, these reasons aren't necessarily true. Coming out and saying, look, you know, Brigham Young was a racist. You know, he was at his time. And sometimes those things influenced bad things that happened. And, you know, blacks should have gotten rid of priesthood. It was a mistake, but we've corrected it. You know, a church that's willing to say that its leaders are humans that are capable of making mistakes, because that's one of my biggest frustrations is when the church and the culture, the leadership and the culture and members all combined keep this thing going where the leaders are always perfect, they never make mistakes.
Loyd Ericson [00:15:02] I think that's just really dangerous. I see a future when church leaders are more willing and open, as other church leaders in the past have been, to say, look, we're humans. We can make mistakes. And that's what revelation is about, is correcting the mistakes of our past.
John Dehlin [00:15:19] What are your favorite things about the church, and what are the pillars of your testimony?
Loyd Ericson [00:15:23] Favorite things for me in the church. I love the Book of Mormon. I mean, whether or not there was a man named Lehi who lived in Jerusalem, who threw his family on a boat in Canada, America is. I don't know. But the text itself, to me is a wonderful, beautiful text. The teachings in there, I really. I mean, I still read the Book of Mormon almost every day, whether it's just a few bits and pieces here, but to me, there's something just powerful about that text.
Loyd Ericson [00:15:53] Joseph Smith is a huge, I'd say, part of the church for me, I've read 10 or so biographies of him and just trying to understand him more and just seeing him as someone who was trying to do what God wanted to do. And yeah, he had his struggles, he made his mistakes. But to me, learning that Joseph Smith made mistakes and was struggling with things helps me understand my own self because frankly, I have a hard time understanding what God wants from me and I have a hard time doing what's right. And so I don't expect it from anyone else. And so seeing, I guess one of the pillars is seeing church leaders of people who are human, who make mistakes is a huge benefit for me because it helps me realize that, hey, I can struggle and make mistakes too, and still be pushing along.
John Dehlin [00:16:41] Any other pillars of your faith,
Loyd Ericson [00:16:45] I would say those are the biggest things. And just to me, what I feel as personal inspiration, revelation guided me a lot when I started really believing, hey, I can receive these things. To me, if anything, that's probably the biggest pillar because that's what influences everything else.
John Dehlin [00:17:03] Anything else you want to say?
Loyd Ericson [00:17:05] Not about pillars, I guess. Oh, no, just anything.
John Dehlin [00:17:08] Yeah, anything. You came thinking you might want to share a story or an anecdote or a homily or anything.
Loyd Ericson [00:17:16] I'd say, no pressure. You can say that. I'd say. I guess one of my biggest frustrations lately is just the issue of how the church is presenting itself. There's a. To me, there's a frustration. I feel like the church runs itself largely by pr. Now, I think President Hinckley's made some. Has done some wonderful things for the church.
Loyd Ericson [00:17:42] To me, I personally think that the whole mini temples was revelation because it brings the temple to those people who can't make it, at least for a lot of people who can't make it to the temple, it brings it out to them. But I have a frustration where I feel like we. Where President Hinckley has largely been the pr. The PR guy for the church for the last six years, and that's how he started. And there's a frustration feeling like our church is so much led by PR now by trying to please non Mormons, even please Mormons to make us. It's all about, oh, we're Christians too, and oh, you know, we're so wonderful and we're true Americans and all this kind of thing, trying to sell the church as if it's some kind of business or club that everyone can join.
Loyd Ericson [00:18:26] You know, try to make it more appealing instead of just being more bold and brash. You know, like I said, when the war in Iraq started, President Hinckley came out, whereas Elder Nelson came out and gave a fairly strong anti war message. President Hinckley came out and was like, ah, you know, we don't know these things. Yeah, war can be bad, but sometimes war can be good. And, you know, just instead of making a big stance, that might offend people.
Loyd Ericson [00:18:50] But I think the church needs to learn that, hey, we can offend some people because if we're doing what's right, and if people who love war, people who love their wealth are offended, then so be it, because this is the gospel of Christ. So I'd say that's something that's been on my mind a lot.
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6 Responses
Great video. I love how Loyd thinks things out clearly and can articulate his reasonings for his faith crisis and struggle through the crisis to come out with faith in the end.
Well done Loyd! I think you expressed yourself very eloquently and I have the same wish-list about the future of the Church. I think you have a really healthy balance going of looking objectively and challenging everything to see if it holds up while not loosing your connection with the scriptural/spiritual realities and sense of wonder and respectful awe at what the Church or Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith’s ministry mean and are. The Church will only fill the earth when we can cope with every kind of person and their perspectives and doubts patiently and supportively, and I’m so pleased to see that the trend is going that way where I live in England and in Utah as the new generation comes through a lot more clued up about diversity and the more connected world we live in. Your church leaders seem to have had just the right approach rather than condemning or making ignorant assumptions about you – a big step forward compared to the way things have been and I’m sure still are in some places.
The ‘Truth’ has nothing to fear from challenges, and looking at the gospel and institution from different perspectives isn’t dangerous to truth as long as people keep their spiritual lines connected and, as you exressed, keep in mind that the instututions of the Church and the people who try their best to run them are not perfect and shouldn’t be expected to be, and can always be improved. This is pure Mormonism – we are on a journey of progress and improvement collectively as well as individually.
It often takes far longer than we’d like, but the Church does get round to making the course corrections that seem obviously needed to most thinking members. I’d say about 70% of my wishlist when I was on my mission in the late 1980’s has been fulfilled since – e.g. apostles emphasising need to listen meaningfully to women’s voice in councils of the Church, dumping the culture of obsessing over every tiny interpretation of obscure predictions about the last days by anyone apostle or not in the Church who made some, abandoning the ‘one size fits all’ missionary discussion treadmill for truly connecting with investigators where they are and teaching them accordingly. These are remarkable and radical changes and have taken us forward by leaps and bounds.
As you rightly say, the huge elephant in the room is black priesthood holders. The leadership know there’s something massively incongruous here and have made an effort in that they celebrated the 25th anniversary big time and now talk about the issue as if they have made the huge apology to the black members and lost potential members that is called for and are moving on, but they still haven’t had the moral courage to do the scarey bit in between and take responsibility for the racist debacle. It will happen I have no doubt, but first they will need to educate the membership generally and overtly to understand that things are slightly more complicated than ‘the prophets and apostles are always infallable’. This would be a big change in approach for them and potentially open up all kinds of pandoras boxes because it will have to include saying ‘This doctrine taught by apostles as revelation from God for most of our history wasn’t revelation after all’, which I’m sure is why they’ve chosen not to go there yet. Currently more experienced members just have to work that out for themselves, and they do, and it doesn’t make them fall apart spiritually or stop believing other revelations and doctrines. It does make us frustrated though!
As well as being taught by authorised leaders, we can also recognise truth because it is always self-evident and feel right and congruent with Christ’s teachings. We don’t just rely on a prophet saying it to us, so I think the membership are generally sophisticated enough to accept that on this issue things went seriously off the rails without assuming everything else did.
It’s getting even more embarrassing as time drags on without an open and honest assessment though. Vague and frankly disingenuous public statements by current leaders distancing themselves from past practices and doctrines about polygamy and black priesthood are just not intellectually honest when we ALL know what was taught and why for decades and decades. Once again at Church this week I felt sick after my sacrament was passed to me by fantastic young black priesthood holders and my black elders’ quorum teacher had to once again teach a lesson citing the 1978 revelation as a lovely example of revelation in action while I sat next to a black man who had been confirmed that day. My toes curled in horror as my dear friend and teacher had to explain how he has, frankly far too generously, come to terms with the whole sorry situation while I just felt my heart screaming “NOOOO!! You all deserve a tearful, grovelling apology that you even have to think like that. YOU aren’t the ones who should be making the apologies or excuses for this madness!”
In trying with the best motives I’m sure to emphasise that God wants black priesthood holders, the constant referals in lesson materials to 1978 are I think just rubbing salt into the wounds until the appropriate and honest confession and apology has been made – then we can talk about it as having properly healed an injustice. How many millions of people of all races have been damaged and had to suffer or been kept out of God’s kingdom because of that apalling racist doctrine? It wasn’t a ‘new’ revelation to give the gospel and its priesthood to black people – as we were taught in Gospel Doctrine not so long ago, God literally threw Philip at the Ethiopian eunuch to get the ball rolling with sending the gospel into black Africa right at the very start of the New Testament Church’s missionary efforts, and Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel, a black man, who served as a missionary and leader and was commemorated clearly in the Church News during the anniversary hoohah. 1978 was a Restoration of priesthood to black men, not an innovation…..but cross as I am about it all, I’ve learned that the right thing gets done in the end, so I’m pretty sure it will. In the meantime, from what I’ve seen so far in my life in the Church, the average member just gets on with being and leading in the Church as they feel is right with the attitudes they feel are right, and the General Authoritues eventually catch up! That’s the joy of our Church – WE are the Church. Everyone who turns up at a local ward and serves have far more control over what our ongoing experience of it and beliefs about it are than even the prophets, so as long we are in touch with their own common sense as well as the Spirit we’ll keep moving forward and getting better at what we do and understand.
These interviews are fantastic – what a great way to move things forward. Thanks everyone who has shared their experiences.
Loyd,
Thank you for sharing with us. You’re a terrific example of the potential of individuals to embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ on their own terms. That you chose to return in spite of the messiness that remains speaks well of you. As we edge closer and closer to the 2nd Coming I believe the Church increasingly needs members who build their testimonies around God, the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the restoration through Joseph Smith—and let the pieces fall where they will.
A final, unrelated note. The patriarch in my stake is named Loyd Ericson, also. He too, is a deep thinker, a realist and one of the friendliest souls I know.
Great job Loyd, you’re such an excellent speaker.
DONT ERASE THE TRUTH Why can a lie be shown but truth be erased?
Loyd is a liar. First example is I was in his ward when he went to uvsc
and there was maybe one or two guys with a fohawk with hilights. Loyd is the type
of person that says he like to give another perspective and when he does
and another person dares to have another perspective that is designed to
cast doubt on his perspective as he did to the initial perspective he gets mad
offended leaves and then declares to the world how he has been made an outcast.
What he does can easily be summed up in the story of Cain and Abel. When God
asked for a sacrifice, Cain gave him not what God wanted but what
he thought God wanted. When it was clear his sacrifice was unexceptable he was upset
and sin was at his door. Loyd makes his self the spokesman for those that
do not give God what he wants and attacks those that do. This does no good for those
that are in need of change and repentance. If Loyd recieves phone calls once a month from
friends leaving the church it is because Loyd aligns himself with those that are weak and are
struggling which is a warning. He calls his work project mayhem which no true disciple of Christ
would do. He seeks contention but withers at the truth. the priesthood was restored to various people
according to the will of God. Just because men wanted did not mean men got. Just as Gentiles
did not have the priesthood at certain times so it was with black men which are for reasons to whom the
priesthood belongs has. It is written that the first shall be last and the last shall be first as it is written this
prophesy is fullfilled with the priesthood being given to worthy Black Men. Those that seek to confuse these
choice and chosen men with accusations of racism are no friend to rightous Black Men that love their people
and are in positions to be a chosen tool in bringing their brethren unto salvation. To put peoples salvation at
risk to sow seeds of contention because without being an oxymoron there is nothing is wrechid. To call the prophet
a racist. Know he not that Brother Brigham is with Brother Joseph are planning for their brethren. Now that the fulness of
gospel and the Priesthood of God is here for all worthy men to have and proclaim and do the will of our Father listen not to hypocrits that sow seeds of contention but bless and gather our fellow brethren. The people of the world do not need apologies but all need to apologize. All need the truth not hypocrits that sow disent that mix philosofy gotten from a brad Pitt movie with the word of God. Loyd may be permitted to walk his thin ice of disent and rebellion to the judgement bar but unless he repents his false teachings will condem him and those that give credence to his false teachings. He will pay for those he confuses or the savior will. Loyd fights the side of the adversary seeking to enslave rather then free and until he can learn to be humble and obedient to his true spiritual leaders and not socialist quacks at universities he will gain no true wisdom and no true knowledge into the mysteries and mind of God. His teaching are lies mixed with truth to fool the weak out of their salvation. If you had problems with the church loyd would be your friend but if you had opinions otherwise he would say you have made him an outcast.
John Dehlin just notified me about this comment. I never thought that there would be anyone in any of my wards that hated me enough to say something so vile. I’m a bit hurt to be honest. If I had done anything to personally offend you, I am deeply sorry.
I wish you would have at least had the courage to say this to my face when you knew me instead of waiting to post this here under the cowardice of anonymity.
I’m interested to know where this is all coming from.
You can e-mail me at loyd (a t) ericsonhome (d-o-t) net