John Dehlin

Introduction and Support for Mormon Stories

[00:00:00] Hi, this is John Dehlin. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Mormon Stories Podcast. As you may know, Mormon Stories Podcast depends entirely upon the financial contributions from you, its listeners. To help keep Mormon Stories going, please consider donating today@mormonstories.org you can do so by clicking on the Make a Donation button at the top right of the website.

[00:00:23] Once again, thank you so much for listening and we hope you enjoy this episode. In 1789, the United States of America entered its first official year of operation. To many, the United States represented a shining new symbol to the world of liberty, equality and freedom. And rightly so.

Women's Rights and Representation in History

[00:01:02] Notwithstanding, for the first 82 years of its history, the nation born under the ideals of no taxation, without representation, and of the people, by the people and for the people, denied voting rights to over 50% of its adult population, including blacks and women.

[00:01:24] Some of the founding fathers, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, were themselves slaveholders. 81 years later, in 1870, the 15th amendment to the United States Constitution was ratified, guaranteeing, at least in theory, the right to vote to black men.

[00:01:44] Many of the women who played pivotal roles helping to free the blacks were hoping that they too would benefit from this new era of electoral openness. But it was not yet to be. Once black men got the vote, it took another 50 years, or until 1920 for women of any color to obtain the same voting rights as these male former slaves had received.

[00:02:11] That's 131 years from the time the country was founded. How could this have happened? What does it mean that it took 131 years for women to get the vote in the United States of America? In some ways, it's almost as if women were the afterthought beyond afterthoughts in American society. Is that unfair to say?

[00:02:36] On April 6, 1830, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was established within the United States. Since its inception, both blacks and women have played pivotal but sometimes structurally limited roles within the church. And while it is clear to me at least, that the status of blacks within the Church has improved dramatically, especially over the past 30 years, it seems to be much more of a mixed bag where women are concerned.

Women's History and Role in the LDS Church

[00:03:07] As I've begun reading a bit about the history of women in the LDS Church, I am somewhat stunned by how many very basic yet dramatic facts I simply didn't know. After almost 40 years as an active member. For example, I didn't learn until last year at age 36 that for over 100 years, the the Relief Society or the Women's Organization for The church was an autonomous organization, surprisingly empowered and entrusted to manage its own membership, affairs, publications and budget.

[00:03:43] I was a bit saddened then to learn that in the 1970s, as a part of the overall correlation, the Relief Society was placed under priesthood leadership and since does not enjoy the autonomy it once had. I didn't learn for myself also until yesterday that once upon a time women in the church were not only allowed but were encouraged to heal the sick by the laying on of hands.

[00:04:09] As a few examples, Brigham Young, speaking in the Tabernacle on 14 November 1869, said, it is the privilege of a mother to have faith and to administer to her child. This she can do herself. The year before in Cache Valley, Apostle Ezra T. Benson, one of my distant grandfathers, had called on women who had been ordained and held the power to rebuke diseases to do so, and urged all the women to gain the same power by exercising faith.

[00:04:43] In the early 1900s, Relief Society President Margaret Ballard wrote in her journal how she had been impressed to bless and administer to her father who was sick and suffering. He had been healed. She had also been impressed to bless her husband, and he was healed.

[00:05:02] It was also quite surprising for me to learn that until 1978, women were neither allowed to pray in LDS sacrament meetings nor were they allowed to enter the LDS temple to do endowments without their husbands. Fortunately, these things have been changed.

[00:05:19] I do remember, as I reflect upon my life, a few somewhat progressive things happening regarding women in my lifetime, such as in 1990 when endowed LDS women were no longer required to make an oath to obey their husbands. Even though some still struggle with the word hearken that replaced the word obey, I do feel like it is a step in the right direction. Still obey their husbands. This feels so foreign to my 2007 world. Sometimes it's hard for me to really wrap my brain around it all.

[00:05:52] To illustrate this all a bit further, I thought I would conduct with you a small, informal test. Please bear with me. This exercise actually has a point. So if you are willing, please get out a pencil and paper, poise your fingers on the pause button of your CD or your iPod as necessary, and let's begin.

[00:06:12] Question number one how many of the leaders of the women's rights movement in the United States can you name? Just like Frederick Douglass with the abolitionist movement and Martin Luther King and Malcolm X with the civil rights movement, the women's rights movements in the United States has been replete with heroic women who fought courageously for freedom and for equal rights.

[00:06:35] If you're like me, you'll be lucky to come up with only two or three. It makes me wonder why, as a group of United States citizens, are we so comparably literate when it comes to race issues, but less so with gender issues?

[00:06:50] Question number two. How many of Joseph Smith's wives, other than Emma, can you name? Better yet, have you ever heard mention of any wife for Joseph apart from Emma, as part of any official church meeting? Now, to many of you, this may seem like an absurd question, and I know that there are many, many reasons why this is so. But to me, it seems very odd that Joseph Smith is the central figure other than Christ within Mormonism, that women and families are held as absolutely central to the church's core mission and purpose. And most significantly, we seem perfectly comfortable learning all about Joseph's parents and siblings, his childhood illnesses, his temperament, and even his foibles.

[00:07:39] Yet we know precious little about his wives. Apart from the fact that Emma suffered much hardship and ultimately wasn't faithful. Shouldn't we all know at least a little bit more about Joseph's family? Question three. Most of you, thanks to the primary song, can name all of the modern day LDS prophets. Now for the hard part. Pencils ready.

[00:08:05] How many of the wives of modern day prophets can you also list? There are dozens and dozens to choose from. Can you name even five? If you weren't able to come up with many names, doesn't this seem a bit strange to you? We know about George and Martha Washington. We know about John and Abigail Adams. We even know about Abraham and Mary Todd Lincoln. Why do we know so precious little about the wives of our LDS prophets? Can you imagine a day when in both priesthood and Relief Society, we study the lives of the wives of the prophets for a full year, just as we do today with the prophets themselves?

[00:08:44] Okay, time for another question. Question number four. How many past presidents of the LDS Relief Society can you name? Okay, how about the current presidency? I won't even ask you about the young women's or primary presidencies. A few more and then we'll be done. Question number five.

[00:09:03] How many women can you name from the Book of Mormon? This answer should actually be somewhat easier than you might think. Believe it or not, and this came up as a major shock to me, but did you realize that throughout the entire 531 pages of the Book of Mormon, only three female characters are mentioned by name, apart from the biblical characters like Mary?

[00:09:26] That's three. You might say to yourself. Well, women were oppressed back then. Of course they weren't mentioned. That is, until you discovered that the Bible mentions more than 180 females by name, let alone all those whose names were not included.

[00:09:43] Again, this doesn't seem quite right. Finally, we'll end with an easy one. Question number six Think to the last LDS Sunday service you attended, or try this exercise next Sunday for sacrament meeting. Count the number of quotes used in church talks or in church manuals made by men versus from women.

Overview of the Upcoming Podcast Series

[00:10:06] In my experience, the number of quotes used from women is always surprisingly low, in spite of the fact that we have general presidencies in the Relief Society, Young Women and Primary, and several women are now allowed to speak each general conference.

[00:10:22] Okay, end of the quiz. You can put your pencils down now. I don't really mean to be melodramatic with all of this, but to me something is amiss. If I ponder with my full mind, heart and spirit. Something seems to be unbalanced in how we think about or not think about our women within the LDS Church.

[00:10:43] To me, it seems as though even in 2007, women in Mormonism again are in many ways still the afterthought, in spite of our sincere insistencies to the contrary. And I am as guilty of this as anyone listening. You see, in 2005, Mormon Stories podcast was launched, and while to this date I have produced 54 episodes for the podcast, I too have neglected to discuss the issue of women in the church.

[00:11:15] A few months ago, three of my closest friends from the podcast each on separate occasions, said to me, in essence, John, what the heck? Why haven't you done any podcast episodes on women in the church? Each time I heard this, I was speechless. I knew that it was an important topic. It just somehow didn't rise on its own. On my own list of priorities. Once again, women became the afterthought. I feel so ashamed.

[00:11:43] So I guess what I'm saying is I, and many of us Mormons for that matter, have a lot to learn and to digest about the history, role and status of women in the LDS Church. This podcast series is my feeble attempt to help make this happen both for myself and for others within the Church.

[00:12:02] In this multi part podcast series, I will try to cover the following we will interview a professor of Women's studies about the three different waves of feminism in US History. We hope to have an episode or two exploring and rejoicing in some of the prominent women in LDS Church history.

[00:12:19] We will interview Claudia Bushman and perhaps others to learn about their historical role and perspective, both as devout, prominent LDS members and as feminists within the church. We hope to spend some time delving into late 20th century feminism in the Church and the Church's reaction to it. We we will spend some time on the ethics of sexuality within the church and explore modern perceptions about sexuality among Mormon women. And finally, we hope to interview a few women about their experiences in the Church today, exploring their hopes for the future as women in the church, including, among others, Lisa from the Superblog, Feminist Mormon Housewives. Maybe we'll even throw in a surprise or two along the way.

[00:13:03] Anyway, this is my humble and feeble attempt at repentance for allowing women to become an afterthought, both in my intellectual life and in this podcast. I truly hope to do this very important topic justice. Thank you so much for listening. Sa. Sam.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.