Introduction and Episode Background

John Dehlin [00:00:23] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories podcast. I'm your host, John delinquent. It is November 8, 2023, and today we are going to be talking about a really important news story that's been breaking recently. The title that we've given to this episode is did Mormon millionaire Russell Brunson expose, you know, Mormon Church apostle M. Russell Ballard and the LDS Church in a lie or in a series of lies? That's going to be the topic for today's discussions. We think it's really important. I'll just say at the outset, our, our desire isn't to put Russell Brunson on blast. We have every reason to believe he's a really good guy.

John Dehlin [00:01:10] And it's not even to put em Russell Ballard on blast. If I could just sort of editorially state at the beginning, the Mormon Church in its temple recommend interviews, asks every member whether they're honest in their dealings with their fellow men. And if people answer no to that or if they're found to be dishonest, then people can be denied the ability to go into the temple to get saving ordinances for the church and even to attend the weddings of their own children or family members. So the Mormon Church uses this issue of honesty in a way that can be very punishing to members. And so if that's the case, then, then I think it's fair to hold the Mormon Church in that system to a high standard as it relates to honesty.

John Dehlin [00:01:59] So that's why we're talking about this today. We believe there's good evidence that the Mormon Church and Apostle and Russell Ballard have been misleading people and deceiving people. And we think that's wrong. So check out our evidence, see if you agree.

John Dehlin [00:02:16] I want to also begin by giving a shout out to the great work of journalist Lynn Packer. Lynn packer has a YouTube channel called Lynn Kenneth Packer. And Lynn Packer has been covering this stuff with Tim Ballard and Elder Ballard for a long, long time. And he deserves lots of credit because he's been a pioneer in this regard. So we'll try and include the links to Limb Packer's YouTube channel in the show notes, but please check it out. And thanks to Lynn Packer for all he's done. We do have a couple episodes with Lynn Packer years ago talking about Paul Dunn and lies told by Mormon General Authority Paul Dunn and also talking about Tim Ballard and Operation Underground Railroad years before any of this stuff came out.

The LDS Church, Tim Ballard, and Russell Brunson

John Dehlin [00:03:03] All right, so I have to give a little bit of background before we jump into Russell Brunson and the recent potential alleged lies told by the LDS Church and Russell Ballard. You know, a few months back we all knew that Vice News broke a story that the Mormon Church denounced Operation Underground Railroads Tim Ballard and and basically claimed that Tim Ballard had morally, morally unacceptable activities. They did their best to distance a.m. russell, Mormon apostle, very senior Mormon Apostle and Russell Ballard from Tim Ballard and made all sorts of false claims. We believe that we'll be covering. Let's go ahead and share the statement that the Mormon Church released to Vice News that ended up getting reported around the world.

John Dehlin [00:03:57] The Mormon Church claimed in response to the emerging Tim Ballard scandals about Tim Ballard potentially allegedly harassing multiple women as a part of Operation Underground Railroad, about financial fraud, about misleading people about his jumps into third world developing countries, etc.

John Dehlin [00:04:17] Once the Mormon Church found out that all these investigations and all this information was going to be made public, then the Mormon Church chose to distance itself from Tim Ballard and especially am Russell Ballard from Tim Ballard. And in that statement the Mormon Church. I'll just read it.

John Dehlin [00:04:37] President Ballard and Tim Ballard established a friendship a number of years ago. That friendship was built on a shared interest in looking after God's children wherever they are and without regard for their circumstance. However, that relationship is in the past for many months President Ballard has had no contact with founder of our Tim Ballard. The nature of the relationship was always in support of vulnerable children being abused, trafficked and otherwise neglected. Once it became clear that Tim Ballard betrayed their friendship fe through the unauthorized use of President Ballard's name and remember that term, unauthorized use of President Ballard's name for Tim Ballard's personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable.

John Dehlin [00:05:12] President Ballard withdrew his association. President Ballard never authorized Tim his own name or the name of the LDS Church to be used for Tim's personal or financial interests. So that's a really important first part of previous lie which was the Mormon Church saying that Elder Ballard never gave Tim Ballard permission to use his name or to promote anything you know, there too or the name of the Church in any of Tim Ballard's financial interests and of course all of Tim Ballard's nonprofits and for profits were for his own personal financial interests. The statement goes on to say in addition, the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints never endorsed, supported or represented our Tim Tim Ballard or any projects associated with them.

John Dehlin [00:05:58] And we showed in a previous episode of Mormon Stories that just the Deseret News alone had over 220 we we were able to count articles supporting and promoting Tim Ballard his books Operation Underground Railroad and then Deseret Book sold several of Tim Ballard's books for many, many years. And even M. Russell Ballard gave talks, at least one to BYU, Idaho.

John Dehlin [00:06:23] But also I think we found articles published on lds.org and maybe in the church magazines where M. Russell Ballard publicly endorsed Tim Ballard. So those were all lies related to the church and M. Russell Ballard trying to distance his prior support of Tim Ballard, distance himself from that and from the church financially supporting Tim Ballard. So we've already covered those untruths previously.

John Dehlin [00:06:50] It's worth noting that the Deseret News came on and said that they independently verified the legitimacy of the statement issued by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to Vice News. So that, that shows Deseret News lying, apparently allegedly lying, just like the LDS Church has. Well after the LDS Church issued those statements distancing Elder Ballard in the church from Tim Ballard, the man that we're going to be talking about today, Russell Brunson, came on Facebook and I believe Instagram and elsewhere and responded to the negative media about Tim Ballard. And we're going to be playing the video of what that response was.

John Dehlin [00:07:33] But before we play it, this just shows you Russell Brunson's Facebook page and the post that he made had over 3,000 likes or smiley faces or hearts, had over 580 comments, 457 shares. I'm guessing it was viewed hundreds of thousands if not millions of times. And he even apparently made two posts about it. You can still, as of today, November 8th, he still had those up. We've included a link in the, in the description on YouTube, a link to, I think his Instagram post where that video remains up. But as I understand it, his Facebook posts are still up as of November 8, 2023, which is weird.

John Dehlin [00:08:20] I would have thought the church would have asked him to take that down. Anyway, when we on Mormon Stories covered the Mormon Church condemning Tim Ballard, episode 1813, we actually played clips from Russell Brunson's, you know, video. So we, we covered that months ago, but it wasn't covered very heavily elsewhere, you know, which is normal.

John Dehlin [00:08:49] So that happened. And then, and then recently, several of Tim Ballard's alleged victims amended the their lawsuit against Tim Ballard. And in that which we covered, I believe last week on Mormon Stories podcast, we, we issued a, that episode called Mormon Church Condemns Tim Ballard. Sorry, sorry. Mormon Apostle handed tithing records to Tim Ballard. So that was an episode that we released, I believe last week. But we basically read the amended lawsuit against Tim Ballard and A bunch of co defendants by several of his sexual harassment victims. And in that complaint or in that filing it's reported it's alleged that M. Russell Ballard shared tithing information, wealthy donor information to Tim Ballard and or Operation Underground Railroad, you know, as a part of M.

John Dehlin [00:09:58] Russell Ballard's support for Tim Ballard and Operation Underground Railroad. And I don't think anybody doubts that that's likely that he did that. Anyone who's trying to be objective about this given how much the church and Russell Ballard was supporting Tim Ballard all over the place and our. But check out that, check out that Mormon Stories episode for more and of course check out the original amended lawsuit against Tim Ballard. It's a doozy. It says all sorts of things including oh that I believe it alleges that Emerson Ballard gave Tim Ballard an apostolic blessing that he would eventually become President, both President of the United States and an Apostle to the Mormon Church or President of the Mormon Church and just all sorts of really outrageous kind of claims.

John Dehlin [00:10:47] So anyway, in response to that Mormon Stories episode and the amended lawsuit, some articles came out and in this case an article came out by KUTV in Salt Lake City that said Latter Day Saint Church denies allegations of sharing confidential tithing records with Tim Ballard. So again KUTV News and probably other news outlets said that the Mormon Church denies, you know that that M. Russell Ballard or or the Mormon Church would ever share donor information or donor donor receipts or donor names or wealthy donor names or wealthy tithe payer wealthy tithe payers names to you know, Tim Ballard or our or anything like unto it.

John Dehlin [00:11:37] Interestingly, the Mormon Church's response to that article was the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints regards tithing records as sacred and keeps them confidential. Leaders ensure such information is not used for personal, political or commercial purposes. President Ballard has never released tithing records to our or any organizations. Two things. It doesn't deny that M. Russell Ballard shared tithing donor information with Tim Ballard. So it doesn't even deny those allegations.

John Dehlin [00:12:10] It looks like it tries to evade acceptability or evade accountability by saying that President Ballard never released tithing records to our or any other organization. But maybe he didn't reveal tithing records, but he could have revealed names of donors or wealthy donors. It's a very lawyerly PR kind of statement that does not include a denial of the core allegations. It kind of tries to skirt them. Anyway. So that's, that's the KUTV news article.

John Dehlin [00:12:45] And then just recently a day or two ago I was informed of an article that came out with Again, ABC for News, ABC for News this time. And I was doing a bunch of other episodes so I didn't get to it. But as soon as I tried to look up the ABC for News article that people were linking it to, it had already been taken down.

John Dehlin [00:13:08] So somehow we're going to talk about it in a second. But what we were able to find is Yahoo's reprinting of the ABC4 news article that was put out. So if you want to know what what are what news article ABC News released and then took back, we have to go to Yahoo to to find that out. And the Yahoo article repeating the ABC4 News article says click Funnel founder and again it's talking about Russell Brunson here. ClickFunnels founder claims LDS Church set up Meeting with Tim Ballard So that was ABC4 News in Salt Lake City reporting on what we covered on Mormon stories a few weeks back, which was that which was the multimillionaire Mormon Russell Brunson claimed that LDS Church M.

John Dehlin [00:14:01] Russell Ballard set up a meeting with him and Tim Ballard which counters Elder Ballard's claim and the Mormon Church's claim in the Deseret News claim that am Russell Ballard never well, gave out wealthy donor information or did anything to support Tim Ballard our or Tim Ballard's financial operations. So anyway, Yahoo Repeats replicates the article that ABC4 News puts out.

John Dehlin [00:14:32] We're not able to find the ABC4 News article. I just got an awesome email from a man named Matt Stoker. He gave us permission to use his name. The email says Russell Brunson article removed by ABC4 is because church asked for it to be removed. I just want to. I just want to note something. The Mormon Church is so powerful it can call ABC4 News in Salt Lake City and tell them to take an article down.

John Dehlin [00:14:56] I think that's significant. That's the Mormon Church allegedly silencing the free press to do its bidding when the Mormon Church doesn't like what's going on. I want to thank people right now who are in the comments. Somebody's saying hit the like button. I will just say thank you for that support letter. Daily Digest Please do subscribe to Mormon Stories podcast, YouTube channel and to our Facebook channel.

John Dehlin [00:15:25] We also would really appreciate if anyone values this type of content. The way that you can support it is by becoming a monthly donor to Mormon Stories podcast. And you can do that by going to MormonStories.org clicking on the Donate button and becoming a monthly donor.

John Dehlin [00:15:45] That's how we pay for all that we do. And you know, we're a 501c3 nonprofit and we depend on support. So please subscribe to these channels. Please like it if we could have all thousand of you like and share these videos right now, they'll get the algorithms will pick them up and share them everywhere. We almost have a thousand people joining us between YouTube and Facebook and other people will join later. The more that people like and comment and share that will help.

John Dehlin [00:16:14] Also anyone who decides to donate to us through the super chats on YouTube that helps us in addition to the to the donations that we get@mormonstories.org Anyways, we got this article. I'm just gonna this email, we're gonna read it from Matt Stoker. He writes this was just an hour or so ago.

John Dehlin [00:16:34] Less than an hour ago he emails us Hi, I called ABC4.4's newsroom and spoke with Natasha in assuming an intake worker he's assuming an intake worker or junior journalist, Matt Stoker goes on. I asked her what she could tell me about the removal of Russell Brunson's article and she said that upper management had it taken down after church after the LDS Church spoke with them.

John Dehlin [00:16:58] Natasha said they are I'm assuming newsroom staff and management are meeting about it and deciding on what to do moving forward. She also said the article was removed because of concerns over biases. This is all I know, but I wanted to get it to someone who can use the information. Happy to hop on the phone if you want more context. Good luck. So again, super disturbing. Apparently, according to Matt Stoker and the person he spoke with @ABC4 News on all the Mormon Church has to do to silence the Free press is call a TV station in Salt Lake City and tell them to take it down.

John Dehlin [00:17:33] And they take it down. And that's what happened. Oddly, this same article that was published in Yahoo is now no longer available as well. So I'm not sure if the Mormon Church called Yahoo and also convinced Yahoo to take the article down, or if just because ABC4 News pulled it down, then it disappeared from Yahoo. As well. Either way, just super disturbing example of the Mormon Church silencing the Free press. Allegedly.

John Dehlin [00:18:08] However, fortunately we have the Wayback Machine. The Wayback Machine is this amazing resource that you can go to under archive.org just type in Wayback Machine and it takes screenshots of stuff posted to the Internet. And While apparently the ABC4 news article was removed before the Wayback Machine could take a shot of it, the Yahoo article remained on the Wayback Machine long enough for the Wayback Machine to take a shot of it. So here we have.

John Dehlin [00:18:47] Here we have the text of the article that was so disturbing to the Mormon Church that they had ABC for News take it down and I'm just going to read it and then we're going to talk about who Russell Brunson is and what it said. So so this is ABC4 News reporting out of Salt Lake City.

John Dehlin [00:19:07] The co founder of an Eagle, Idaho digital marketing firm claimed in a social media video in September that a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints General Authority introduced him to former Operation Underground Railroad founder Tim Ballard for the purpose of discussing ways to help our a claim that raises questions about the Church's statement of having never endorsed or supported or supported our or any projects associated with Tim Ballard. So ABC4 News is noting that M. Russell Ballard of the Mormon Church has likely been dishonest about the Church, saying that ballot or the Church have never endorsed or supported our or any of the projects associated with Tim Ballard goes on to say Click Funnels head Russell Brunson.

John Dehlin [00:19:51] That's his One of his companies took to social media on September 16th in defense of Tim Ballard, but also claimed that M. Russell Ballard, current acting president of the Church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, introduced him to Tim Ballard. No relation. The full video posted to Facebook and Instagram features Brunson addressing his followers, friends and those who have been donating to o with me about his thoughts on the recent negative media about Tim Ballard Church Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints announces claims made by our former leader Tim Ballard. So that's a link as well. It goes on to say Brunson's video was made in response to reports of a September 15 statement from the LDS Church announcing Tim Ballard claiming the former our founder betrayed a friendship with them.

John Dehlin [00:20:37] Russell Ballard. The church called Tim Ballard's activity morally unacceptable. In the Church's statement, it claimed, quote, the church Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints never endorsed, supported or represented our Tim Ballard or any projects associated with them. I just discussed that previously following the release of the Church's statement in September, Tim Ballard and many of his supporters claimed it was fake, even with supporting documents and emails from numerous media outlets showing the statement had indeed been sent from church media representatives.

John Dehlin [00:21:08] It goes on to say Bronson vehemently claimed in his video that the LDS statement was fake and had been obtained in his opinion from rogue employees of the church. So unfortunately Brunson went conspiratorial there and you know re in a reaction claimed that the the PR statement I think by his name's Doug Anderson from Church PR was rogue and fake.

John Dehlin [00:21:33] That that's unfortunate but you know a lot of Mormons these days tend towards conspiratorial thinking. Unfortunately goes on to say Brunson has made no further statement on social media about Tim Ballard situation and he had not responded to requests for comment from abc4.com prior to this piece being published. Brunson claimed that he knew the statement was fake because he had quote been in the room with both Ballards Tim and M. Russell Ballard. Brunson claimed he was making this video as somebody who doesn't just have third hand knowledge or who read an article about an article about an article but as someone who has been involved with it with him and the group for a long long time.

John Dehlin [00:22:15] He goes on quote, it's interesting because the way I found out about Tim Ballard and Operation Underground Railroad was actually from Elder Ballard. So. So Brunson is acknowledging that he found out about Tim Ballard from Mormon Apostle Russell Ballard. Brunson said quote, he personally called me. So Brunson says M. Russell Ballard proactively called Brunson to tell him to talk to M. Russell Ballard which is putting a wealthy tithe paying member in touch with M. Russell Ballard.

John Dehlin [00:22:46] He personally called me and asked me to help Tim Ballard at N O U R. I have literally sat in the room with Elder Ballard and Tim Ballard as we discussed these things and these ideas. Close quote. ABC4 has also asked the church, the LDS Church to clarified statement saying it never endorsed or supported our or any projects associated with Tim Ballard.

John Dehlin [00:23:10] ABC4 has also asked the Church to clarified statement saying it never endorsed or supported our or any projects associated with Tim Ballard considering Brunson claimed the meeting was specifically for that purpose. We are waiting to hear back. Well I think ABC4 News did hear back from the Mormon Church and the Mormon Church told them to shut this crap down and apparently they did. Unless there's something else going on that I don't know about.

John Dehlin [00:23:36] Last part of the article. Brunson furthermore claimed quote, he Tim Ballard is being attacked from the outside. This is not the truth. Again this is coming from someone who literally I've been in the room with him and Elder Ballard talking about these things. Okay, I've been in the rooms. Elder Ballard's the only the one that introduced me. Tim never came to me and like told me some big story and like tried to get me in. It was the opposite way around. Fully. You need to understand this is the way it actually worked. And remember at the time Tim Ballard was claiming that he never traded on M.

John Dehlin [00:24:08] Russell Ballard's name. So Tim Ballard makes this video where he's telling everybody, I never traded on EM Russell Ballard's name and I never used him for any financial, you know, whatever engagements. So Brunson wanted to support Tim Ballard's statement that he never used Emerussa Ballard's name to support Tim Ballard our Unfortunately, what that does is it throws EM Russell Ballard under the bus, acknowledging that Emerald Soul Ballard was proactively calling wealthy tithe donors and encouraging them to donate to and support our which again defies the Mormon churches and Elder Ballard's claim that he never supported Tim Ballard our financially. It's just a web of lies, lies, lies, lies.

John Dehlin [00:24:57] Okay, so he goes on to conclude fully, you need to understand this is the way it actually worked. This is the actual truth. Not some rogue employee who got fired because they were bad at the job lying between their teeth. That's. That's what he's alleging.

John Dehlin [00:25:13] You know, was a church PR spokesman who I have friends who know Doug Anderson, and I think they'd be offended that he would be called a rogue employee who was lying between his teeth. Anyway, Brunson goes on to say, that's literally what the sources are. If you look at where they are getting this stuff, it's ridiculous. Brunson closed his video by reaffirming his support for Tim Ballard. And the work of OU are. Okay, so now let's talk about who. Oh, first of all, I just want to thank those who are stepping up to support us with the super chats. M. Gunter writes, following y' all nuance ho and RFM has made me consider doing my anthropology PhD on Mormonism.

John Dehlin [00:25:53] I can't understate how wonderful y' all are. Thank you so much, M. Gunter. We really appreciate the support. Ryan Jolly writes down the memory hole. Love to see Mormon stories remind the church the standard for honesty that they preach. Thank you, Ryan Jolly, for the support. And yes, we're doing this because the Mormon Church literally keeps its members out of the temple, out of temple weddings, out of the weddings of their own children, out of its most sacred ordinances to make it to the celestial kingdom if they admit to lying. So when M. Russell Ballard or church PR lie publicly, it's a double standard that should be called out, I believe.

John Dehlin [00:26:31] Wendy Merrill Perry, thanks for your support. ICU writes as an ex Jov's witness, I would love to see a coalition of ex cult members in all groups to fight these high control groups together. Imagine the impact we could all have Ex Scientologists, ex Amish, ex Mormons, ex Jehovah's Witnesses, you name night.

John Dehlin [00:26:51] Thank you for the support. I see you. And then finally also thanks to Jessica Frankel. Keep up this important work. Thanks Jessica for the support. Thanks to everyone who supports. Now we're going to talk about who Russell Brunson is and play that video again so you can hear the whole thing. This is a photo of Russell Brunson in front of an UR banner and he's holding a white piece of paper that says end human trafficking, Wear Blue Day.

Russell Brunson's Video and Claims About M. Russell Ballard

John Dehlin [00:27:19] This is a photo of Russell Brunson with Tim Ballard at some, some event that they were on together. This is, this was a Facebook post I believe made in 2019, so four years ago. And that just shows how this is probably some sort of Silicon Slopes event, because Silicon Slopes event is where a lot of the, the tech, the Mormon tech companies in Utah get together every year. And Tim Ballard has been a regular fixture at Silicon Slopes and Russell Brunson helps out with that, as I understand it, quite a bit. So that shows how, how supportive they were and are and maybe are all in response to M.

John Dehlin [00:28:02] Russell Ballard telling Russell Brunson to get in touch with Tim Ballard. So think about that. Russell Ballard, sorry, M. Russell Ballard tells Russell Brunson to support Tim Ballard. I am confident that not only did Russell Brunson donate to our I believe he was helped out directly with our but then they go on, you know, Silicon Slopes events, fundraising for Tim Ballard and our That's a direct result of M. Russell Ballard putting Russell Brunson in touch with Tim B. With Tim Ballard and OU are so these denials that the Mormon Church and Marcel Ballard never did anything to promote or support Tim Ballard and O you are are just egregious and untrue.

John Dehlin [00:28:47] I love this comment. This comment wins the Mormon Internet. This is lazy praline 1898 on ex mormon Reddit they write all these Russell and Ballards are hurting my brain. I love that. I love that quote. It's true. More on Russell Brunson. This is all the. This, I think this is all the companies that he owns, including Kick Funnels, Magnetic marketing, Understand me lady boss, Secrets of success, marketing secrets, zoomly doomly. I don't even know what that is. Anyway, he owns lots of stuff.

John Dehlin [00:29:23] He's been working for 19 years, he's a New York Times bestselling author, etc. This is an article talking about. He's got, he's got a Facebook page I believe, with 704,000 likes. So almost a million 901,000 followers. Almost a million followers.

John Dehlin [00:29:43] You know, EY Entrepreneur of the Year number 76 on the Inc. 5000. USA Today best selling author, super successful guy. In terms of his net worth, it's been estimated to be at least. This is an article on Russell Brunson's net worth from Jeremy Harrison and it's estimated that he's worth at least $47 million.

John Dehlin [00:30:09] It could be much more, but that's what's estimated. Close to, you know, close to $50 million is how much this guy's worth at a minimum. These are the two Facebook posts that we've already referenced. And then what we're going to do is we're going to just play the clips now and provide commentary. But also we're confident that, that Russell Brunson is going to be take these, taking these videos down soon. So we want there to be a public record of that. So we're going to go ahead and play clips from his video now and respond to them and react to them, but also submit them to the public record.

John Dehlin [00:30:48] So let's go ahead and play the Russell Brunson defense video. And I apologize that some of this is going to be a little bit repetitive because we just covered in that article a lot of the stuff he said. But again, we want it to be part of the public record and we'll talk about it. So let's go ahead and roll the tape.

▶ Video Clip 1

Video Clip 1 [00:31:06] Hey, my name is Russell Brunson for those who don't know me. I make this video to talk about Tim Ballard. A lot of you guys know that he's someone who we have been supporting for the last few years.

Video Clip 1 [00:31:15] Some of you guys probably saw the new movie Sound of Freedom. So you know a little about a story this weekend. There was a bunch of new press coming out about Tim Ballard, people attacking him, his character, just a whole bunch of stuff. And I got a lot of you guys who are my friends, people who have been donating with me to OU are wanting to know my opinion, what's happening. And so I wanted to make an official video to let you guys know my thoughts. And I'm making this video somebody who, who doesn't just have like third hand knowledge or read an article about an article about an article.

Video Clip 1 [00:31:43] Someone who, I've been involved with it with him and with the group for a long, long time. So the most recent article that came out was basically saying that the Mormon Church was against Tim Ballard and this whole huge thing. And it's this big this big scandal.

Video Clip 1 [00:31:58] It's interesting because the way that I found out about Tim Ballard and operation on Ground ROTOR was actually actually from Elder Ballard. He personally called me and asked me to help Tim Ballard in Operation Underground Road. I have literally sat in the rooms with Elder Ballard and Tim Ballard as we discussed these things and these ideas. And so I want to start with again, these are not my stories to tell, but just to let you know that the accusations that they're being made on the media are not true. As someone who was literally in the room when these conversations were happening.

Video Clip 1 [00:32:30] So that's number one. I wish I could go into a lot of detail, but they're not my stories to tell. But I was there for many.

John Dehlin [00:32:37] Okay, so there you have it, Em. Russell Ballard called Russell Brunson and then they met together. So the allegation that the Emerald Ballard never solicited for Tim Ballard is not true. But also that Emerald Ballard never, you know, disclosed names of wealthy donors or tithe payers to Tim Ballard and our, you know, potentially is, is possibly suspect. I'll go ahead and share a quote. This is from Russell Brunson. It's interesting because the way I found out about Tim Ballard Operation Underground Railroad was actually from Elder Ballard. Quote, he personally called me and asked me to help Tim Ballard and Operation Underground Railroad. And he sat in, in the meetings with them. So we covered that. Let's go ahead and go to the next clip.

▶ Video Clip 2

Video Clip 2 [00:33:30] Number two, those who don't know me also, I am a marketer. I built a large company buying ads on the Internet. I know how media works. I know how, how to get people to click on ads. We spend anywhere between a million to $2 million per month every single month on ads.

Video Clip 2 [00:33:46] And this is the books and may have heard it. It's called Trust Me, I'm Lying Confessions of a Media Manipulator. And if you read this book, this is a book that most good marketers have read, they understand, they understand how to manipulate the media to get them to say what you need them to say.

Video Clip 2 [00:34:00] Really good book by the way. For the marketing, marketing friends out there. It's one of the best. But for those who are like sitting there watching the TV and you're freaking out like, oh my gosh, Tim Ballard's a bad person. Oh my gosh. Oh, you are is not good. Oh my gosh. And you're freaking out all these things. It's because you don't understand how you're being manipulated. I want to kind of bring this to the forelight so you guys are fully aware of how these things work, right?

Video Clip 2 [00:34:20] Like when I first got involved in if OU are with Tim Ballard I was warned by multiple people including Tim and Elder Ballard. Like if you decide to go down this path, the gates of hell are gonna be going begin open up and like people will be attacking you. You'll be like they warned me for that knowing that if I was going to go step and help in this in them with these things that was going to happen to me personally.

John Dehlin [00:34:42] Yeah. So a couple things I, I think it's, you know, somebody made a really good quote just now. Ladder Daily Digest just wrote. Let me tell you when you are being manipulated. While I being manipulated I also think it's important to note that you know, Russell Brunson is talking about the art of manipulation when it's really clear that the Mormon Church, its PR department and AM Russell Ballard appear to be manipulating both the membership and the public through its press releases and through these denunciations. So it's kind of rich that he is, he's addressing manipulation when you know he's, he's being an accomplice to it.

John Dehlin [00:35:25] But he's either a victim to it or he's you know, even more deceptive than any of us might imagine. Anyway. Yeah, so that, that him talking about manipulation is really interesting also I think you know this idea that Tim Ballard and our only only get attacked by, by bad people who want to do their cause harm. I think hopefully that's been debunked that there was a federal investigation that there are at least as I understand, eight women who claim to be sexually harassed by by Tim Ballard. There's all sorts of fraud allegations. Now these were people with allegations that appear to be very, very credible and the federal government doing investigations that were very, very credible.

John Dehlin [00:36:15] And of course we've already mentioned Sean Reyes sitting in the attorney's general office receiving complaints about Tim Ballard and our and according to the victims in that amended lawsuit, potentially trying to silence victims allegedly and having a really severe conflict of interest between his role to uphold the law in Utah but then also protecting. Oh you are and Tim Ballard while he sits on the board as a legal advisor to our and Tim Ballard. That's just all really shady stuff. All right, let's go ahead and roll the next clip.

Russell Brunson [00:36:59] So you'll take somebody like Tim Ballard who right now a movie came out Sound of Freedom. People are waking up and finally becoming aware of this thing that we've been fighting for for you know, 10 plus years to help people Understand, like, this thing is happening, this darkness, this evil is something you need to be aware of, you need to care about, you need to raise money, you need to donate anything, you need to help and try to be part of it. Right? And over the last three, four months, like, this has gotten huge. Like, people are finally waking up and realizing, like, oh my gosh, this whole thing things a problem.

Russell Brunson [00:37:24] And so all they're doing is trying to attack the credibility. So they're taking Tim Ballard, like, okay, how do we attack his credibility? Oh, he's part of the Mormon Church. And there's these things, like, let's try to figure out how we can. We can spin a story between these two things. They go out there, they find rogue employees, people who got fired, people like all sorts of things, and they get people to say stuff and they mix it up and boom, they leak it to the bottom and the top rank. This is a big story. This guy's on TV all over the place. He's all over the movies.

Russell Brunson [00:37:45] Like, we can get a lot of clicks off. A lot of advertising dollars will come if we can leak the story quickly. So instead of doing sounds like good quality journalism and like figuring out the actual truth, they all instantly start sprouting out. Start publishing all over the place again if you want to see the playbook, how this game is played. It's called Trust Me, I'm Lying Confessions of a Media Manipulator. This book will open your eyes to how it all works. And this is what's happening to you guys. So I want you all to be fully aware those guys who are sitting at home and especially if you like someone who, who.

Russell Brunson [00:38:09] Who loves ou or loves Tim Bauer. Loves what the mission. And like, you saw Sound of Freedom, like, I want to be part of this and you've seen these other things. Just be fully aware. He's being attacked from the outside. This is not the truth. Okay. This is not the truth. Again.

John Dehlin [00:38:22] Yeah. So a couple things really important there. He talks about the attacks on Tim Ballard and our not being quality journalism that, you know, people just provide quick responses without gathering the facts. I think it's unfortunate that he made that argument because literally in this video, Russell Brunson is instinctively reacting to the allegations against Tim Ballard and our. Without gathering the facts. Like, he should have followed his own wisdom there. And instead of just responding and claiming that anyone who attacks Tim Ballard and o you are is evil and is. Is part of a.

John Dehlin [00:39:00] An attack scheme, he should have found out about the eight alleged victims of. Of Tim Ballard should have learned about the federal investigation. He should have read what Lynn Packer wrote, the. The excellent journalist that covered this topic for years on YouTube with meticulous research. And Brunson is just not following his own advice here. And it's. It's a little bit ironic and hypocritical because he's literally doing what he tells people not to do. And that's unfortunate. I. I hope he admits that or acknowledges it or, you know, even apologizes for it, because really he's doing here what he is, is saying other people shouldn't do.

John Dehlin [00:39:47] And it almost seems like he's guilty of, you know, it almost seems hypocritical. So anyway, I don't mean to jump on him too much. He. I. By many reports, he's a nice guy, but I would love a clarification from him because he's got a freaking million followers plus. Right. And he's influential. And here he is accusing church PR Doug Anderson, you know, of being. Being frauds or. Or bad actors. He's covering for Tim Ballard and Russell Ballard and our. When.

Russell Brunson [00:40:24] When.

John Dehlin [00:40:25] When Russell Brunson's wrong and Vice News and Lynn Packer and all the people that reported on this stuff were on the side of truth and evidence. I hope he'll issue some sort of retraction or clarification. All right, let's go to the final clip.

Russell Brunson [00:40:42] And I just come from someone who literally, I've been in the rooms with him and Elder Ballard talking about these things. Okay, I've been in the rooms. Elder Baller is what introduced me. Tim never came to me, and I told me some big stories. Elder Ballard and I tried to get me in. It was the opposite way around. Okay, so fully, you need to understand this is the way it's actually worked. This is the actual truth, not some rogue employee who got fired because they were bad at their job. Lying behind between the teeth, like, is what literally the sources are. If you look at where they're getting this stuff, like, it's ridiculous.

Russell Brunson [00:41:06] Like, I understand the reality of it. I just wanted you guys to be aware of it as well, because you're being played. And it's important for you guys to understand that, because if you understand that, then you can stand inside the person who's literally out there in the front of all this, taking all these arrows for you and for me so we don't have to, instead of us turning our back like, oh, shoot some arrows too.

John Dehlin [00:41:23] Oh, good.

Russell Brunson [00:41:24] Like, I want to distance myself. Like, it's not true. These are lies. And the more you understand that, the more I said the man and the character that Tim Ballard is, the more important it is. So I want to make this video for him and for you to understand the truth because this is the playbook they're using. It works good, but it's not true. So there you go. Hope that helps. Tim, we love you, Tim. We support you. Tim, I'm here for you and for everybody else. I want to encourage you instead of just believing what you see on the news, look behind the man, look behind the truth, look behind the works they're doing. By the fruits, you shall know them. And there's no better man on Surf right now than Tim Ballard. So there you go. Appreciate you all. Thanks for listening.

Analysis and Call for Church Accountability

John Dehlin [00:42:07] Well, there's, there's a lot there. But, you know, but Russell Brunson saying you're being played, that's true, but you're being played by Tim Ballard. M. Russell Ballard, Apostle, the Mormon Church. The Mormon Church, PR Deseret News and all the COVID ups. And unfortunately, you know, you're being, you're being played by them and their deceptions in the media. And unfortunately, whether it's intentional or not, in this video, you're being played by Russell Brunson. Now, you know, some people say he just didn't know better. If that's true, with a million plus followers and a wealth of reported 50 million or more, then I think we are owed an apology and an explanation and a clarification, Russell Brunson, because we have all been played and you, Russell Brunson, intentionally or not, were an accomplice to that.

John Dehlin [00:43:02] You know, staying emphatically that it's not true, the allegations against Tim Ballard and Russell Ballard, you know, obviously that speaks for itself. And then man to end by saying, Tim, Tim Ballard, there's no better man on this earth. Especially given the allegations around the way he sexually harassed and manipulated allegedly so many women. And then the fraud and the financial fraud and the fake jumps, the allegedly fake jumps and his denial since it's just, you know, that, that's just hard.

John Dehlin [00:43:38] There, there have been some really important comments on Reddit that I think are worth mentioning. There's a, there's a post on Reddit by expensiveactuary14 and I'll just read it. Elder Ballard, reach out to Russell Brunson, a wealthy member, out of the blue about. Oh, you are. He says, story time. And I, and I thought with recent church news, it feels very relevant. Russell Brunson, who is a very wealthy member in the Boise area And a good friend of mine told me this story a few years ago about how he got random call from Elder Ballard's office asking to donate to our and help fund their documentary that is or was on Amazon Prime.

John Dehlin [00:44:18] So that's that's a friend a reported friend of Russell Brunson saying that M. Russell Ballard was looking to both donate to our but also help fund the documentary Visions of Glory. So again that would be extra evidence that M. Russell Ballard in the Mormon Church lied about their support of Tim Ballard and our financially it goes on random call from Elder Ballard himself. So Elder Ballard calls Russell Brunson. It was the secretary at first and he actually thought it was a prank to begin with and eventually they transferred him to Elder Ballard. He talked to Tim and the important worker of O you are and guess what?

John Dehlin [00:44:58] Clickfunnels the company Russell Brunson started was one of the main producers of the Operation Toussaint. So again that means that Russell Brunson followed Apostle and Russell Ballard suggestions and became a donor to Tim Ballard not just to the movie Sounds of Freedom and to our but also to Operation Toussaint which was one of the jumps one of the operations heck, his name is on the front of the movie. As a producer Russell told me this story and obviously was honored to get the call from Elder Ballard but had never met him. So yeah, these headlines have some meat to them. So that's an important another if we if if Russell Brunson's video weren't enough, that's another validation from an alleged friend of Russell Brunson.

John Dehlin [00:45:49] Another comment that was made this is Prize Claims 7277 on ExMormon Reddit Russell Brunson told the story on his Facebook on how Russell Ballard contacted him about our he did it the day after the church made the statement. He thought he was helping the case because he thought the statement couldn't have been real but now but know that they know it was real. His little video is pretty incriminating. I believe it is still up on Facebook and Mormonism Live talked about it when they had Lynn Packer on that is all true. Another this is expensive actuary 14 again he made the original post he writes yeah he was definitely not ashamed of the story.

John Dehlin [00:46:29] Only difference with this news article and what he told me is he told me he got a random call from Elder Ballard's office out of the blue. Not Tim introducing him to Elder Ballard but a call directly from Elder Ballard's office. Small detail but glad to see he's not Running away from the story he told me. So this is M. Russell Ballard apparently going through a Rolodex of wealthy tithe payers and donors and requesting that they support, you know, external nonprofits and for profits and initiatives which is important.

John Dehlin [00:47:05] Kevin Rex writes the statement is technically true. The tithing records. This is kind of sarcastic. That statement is technically true. The tithing records weren't released directly to our they were given to someone who made notes about the big time donors potentially and then the records were taken back or something like that. See the church is true. So it's basically saying that when the church denies sharing wealthy donor information or tithing information with people like Tim Ballard our they do it through shady sketchy back handed means. And I'm not alleging that's true, I'm just saying that's what people are are wondering. So going back to this KUTV article again we've already admitted that the church never denied the allegations that M.

John Dehlin [00:47:50] Russell Ballard shared tithing donor information with Tim Ballard. They basically just claimed that he didn't share it with our which appears to be a way to throw people off the scent to deceive which isn't being honest but it goes on. Now Brunson admitted that he's donated significantly to our after being asked by Elder Ballard to support Tim Ballard and our and this is just one donor. Let me just be clear. How many other donors did M. Russell Ballard call and encourage to donate? And again neither Amherst Abelard nor the Mormon Church denies that Elder Ballard gave tithing donor information to Tim Ballard directly. Which is I believe what the lawsuit, the amended lawsuit against Tim Ballard and all the other co defendants alleges.

John Dehlin [00:48:47] So we're still waiting for the Mormon Church to clarify that. All right, well that is, that is the episode that I wanted to share with you today. Will be covering more of this in the weeks months ahead. We appreciate everyone who supports what we do and we just want to call on the Mormon Church to be honest. The church PR to be honest. The Deseret News to be honest. Tim Ballard to be honest. Russell Brunson to be honest.

John Dehlin [00:49:15] Stop lying, stop deceiving, Tell the truth. Hold yourselves to the same standard of accountability that you hold tithe paying members for the temple recommend and that you use to keep them out of the temple, to keep the saving ordinances from them, to shame them and to keep them out of heaven and to keep them out of their own family members weddings. I will add that Mormonism Live begins in an hour. They do great work. Please support them. I'M also going to just ask everybody, please subscribe to the Mormon Stories podcast, YouTube channel and on Facebook. Thanks for the super chats and the most important way you can support this journalism, this reporting, is to go to MormonStories.org, click on the donate button to become a monthly donor.

John Dehlin [00:49:57] We lose donors every month because people get busy, people move on, people fall on financial hard times. And if we don't get your financial support and have new people sign up to donate, then we, then we have to stop providing, you know, the services that we provide. I want to thank Julie Gerardo for helping me make this episode. Also thank Julia and Maven for timecode, show notes, moderating the chats, etc. And I want to thank all the sources that make all this possible, including the tip that we got that we referred to previously.

John Dehlin [00:50:36] We'll have more reporting on the weeks months ahead. I will say that I know that we've done a little bit less standard vanilla long for Mormon stories and we've been covering news more. That's because these stories are so important.

John Dehlin [00:50:54] And so we, we hope you understand that, you know, the, the traditional news media can't, can't understand the Mormon angles, can't connect all these dots. And then frankly, oftentimes the Mormon Church is suppressing the reporting of a lot of these news outlets with legal threats apparently or allegedly or other sorts of calls like with abc. So we have to do reporting that others can't. So we apologize if you're frustrated that Mormon Stories has done less long form.

John Dehlin [00:51:25] Just Mormon stories that we've been covering more news lately. We hope you understand why. Thanks for supporting us. Be good to each other. Be kind to each other. Follow us again soon for more stories. Support all the good channels out there like Nuance, Ho, Mormonism, Live Radio Free Mormon, Mormonish, Lynn Packer. There's so many good programs out there. Nemo, the Mormon, support them all.

John Dehlin [00:51:50] Be kind to each other. Be good to each other. We'll see you all again soon on another episode of Mormon Stories Podcast. And Russell Brunson, if you want to come on Mormon Stories podcast, we would love to have you. That's an open invitation. Same with them. Russell Ballard. Same with Tim Ballard. Same with O you are.

John Dehlin [00:52:06] We would love to have you all on to tell your side of the story. Thanks everyone and we'll see you all again soon. Bye.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.