Introducing the Topic of Sex and Faith

Natasha Helfer [00:00:07] All right, so, well, two initial thoughts. First is, let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you. That's number one thought. Number two thought is this is going to be a quickie, Although it's about 55 minutes, so that's about 45 minutes longer than most.

Natasha Helfer [00:00:40] All right, all right, that's enough of that. So I always start off my sex talks with a few disclosures because I think sexuality is a fairly sensitive topic, and so we just want to kind of be on the same page. I feel like it's more successful if we're all kind of having good expectations of what to expect, like sexual contracting. So in a way, that's what I'm doing with you today.

Natasha Helfer [00:01:11] I think this is, you know, not a presentation that covers sexual trauma. Do you want to give me a clicker and I'll just do them both? Okay. Oh, you're doing builds. Yep. Sorry about that. Okay. This is not a presentation that really covers sexual trauma, and yet sexual trauma is a huge part of our human story.

Natasha Helfer [00:01:33] It affects at least a third of us. Doesn't matter if you're male or female. And those numbers are conservative, okay. Because there's still a lot of stigma and taboo and even people being able to talk about the fact that they were sexually traumatized. So I just say that just to validate whoever's in here. I am a sexual abuse survivor myself, and so I understand that there are implications of that and take care of yourself. So I'm never offended if anybody needs to walk out, if anybody needs to do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. You never know when something, either a joke I make or a slide I have or something may be difficult for you.

Natasha Helfer [00:02:15] So honor yourself and your body and pay attention to yourself, please, during this presentation. The next thing is that I definitely want to make sure that very confident is my expertise in the field. That means nothing when it comes to being an expert in your personal life, okay? So please, especially coming from our Mormon culture, do not replace me as an authority. You need to be your primary authority in your life when it comes to your sexuality. So I may have strategies, I may have ideas, I may have generalities, I might have guidelines. And yet, please, please, please feel free to disagree with me at any point in this presentation.

Natasha Helfer [00:03:00] Don't use me as a club back home. So it's fascinating for me to hear how I get interpreted back home. You know, a wife or a husband may come back and say, well, you know, you said this to my spouse, and I'm like I did, or even if I am represented correctly, don't use my information in a way that will actually defeat the purpose of what you're hoping to create.

Natasha Helfer [00:03:29] So if you go home and say, well, Natasha said, you know, everything that I've been saying for the past 20 years, it's probably not going to go well for you. So just be mindful and be smart, I guess, be emotionally intelligent about how to use the information. I'm going to share with you.

Natasha Helfer [00:03:51] Basically what you're going to get out of this presentation because it is a quickie and it's not comprehensive. I'm going to mainly talk to you from a faith transitioning approach from the idea of messages that I believe that you need to address and be aware of coming from our culture and also tasks that you may want to be thinking about in regards to, okay, where do I go from here? So that's really all we'll be covering today. And even in those two small areas, it's not comprehensive. So I could talk about sexuality all day long for about a year and maybe you'll get something comprehensive.

Natasha Helfer [00:04:28] So just understand the limitations and, oh, let's see, I guess that's it. Is that it? Yeah. All right. So the number one idea that we've kind of already touched on today a bit, but sexuality and sex and all these words that have to do with sex are generally something that's considered taboo not only in Mormon culture, but again, United States culture and many other cultures across the world.

Mormon Sexual Messaging: Anxiety, Comfort, and Consent

Natasha Helfer [00:05:02] And so there's obviously a sense of anxiety or discomfort when it comes to talking about sexual subjects. And that's pretty much something we're talking about as sex therapists in every context that we can think of. However, from a Mormon construct, what does discomfort mean?

Natasha Helfer [00:05:25] Okay, yes. So if every time you feel uncomfortable about a sexual topic, you've been taught to interpret that as I'm being influenced by something evil or bad or negative or dangerous, you can see how it starts becoming very difficult to develop correctly sexually. Now, it's interesting that when there are things that you may be uncomfortable doing, such as paying tithing or going on a two year mission, the role of discomfort is interpreted differently in our culture. Okay. But when it comes to sexuality in particular, discomfort means that you're going down the wrong path.

Natasha Helfer [00:06:11] So you're going to be uncomfortable with some of my ideas. You're probably going to be uncomfortable with some of the content that we might be presenting either today or in many other areas of your life, that you may get self help or other Ideas about sexuality. Please be very aware that this is your programming. And so discomfort doesn't have to be this horrible thing.

Natasha Helfer [00:06:38] There are. I'm going to give you the reasons why I think there are discomfort that are legitimate. There are dangers and risks when it comes to being a sexual adult and a sexual human being. So as we all know through fear based sexual education that we probably all received, there are real reasons to have concerns. So that's okay, you know, I mean that's one, one way that you can think about your discomfort. But I want it to be really a very minimal way because again, it's been over exaggerated in our education to begin with. Another reason why you might be feeling uncomfortable is that anytime that you are growing or trying something new or considering a new approach, there's a natural discomfort to that.

Natasha Helfer [00:07:26] So if you think about the first time, maybe that you heard about French kissing or even the sex act to begin with, I was about 10 and I was literally very concerned about the human race. I thought we were disgusting creatures and I couldn't believe that this is how things were going to pan out for me. By about 13, I had changed my mind on at least one of those things and by 15, the second. So that's because with experience and with growth and with trying some new things and trying them over and over again, you get accustomed to new things. Now if you're in the context of a religious construct that says what would they call that as far as if you're getting used to something that you shouldn't be getting used to, what do we call that?

Natasha Helfer [00:08:22] You're getting desensitized. And so a very normal process of human behavior is getting cinefied, which is my favorite new word. So you want to be again, careful about interpreting your discomfort when it comes to new experiences. And just because you don't like something the first time or just because you're uncomfortable moving into new experiences, doesn't necessarily mean those things will always be a bad fit for you.

Natasha Helfer [00:08:51] This is very confusing in the context of the me too movement and the very, very important concepts that we have to learn about consent. How do you know when I can be uncomfortable without crossing the lines and to not consent?

Natasha Helfer [00:09:10] A safe word is a very good. Yes, a safe word is very important. But a lot of times this is a struggle within your own mind. A safe word is more about you already know what's not safe for you. And so you're going to communicate that with your partner. And they're very important things to have, especially if you're into kink or gagging or anything like that, because then you need to have manners to communicate. That may not even be verbal to have consent. But many times we are confused within our own system as to what I may or may not want to be doing sexually.

Natasha Helfer [00:09:48] And in the current dialogue and context of consent, this becomes very complex. So consent is not as simple as yes or no. And I do entire podcasts on that topic in of itself, but just to put it out there.

Natasha Helfer [00:10:05] So the another reason why you might be uncomfortable is because healing hurts. I don't know how many of you have been through a surgery. I know I got knee surgery and I had to, like, drive myself to the torture chamber is what I called it.

Natasha Helfer [00:10:22] Plantar fasciitis was another torture chamber that I went to. And I was like, I'm paying and I'm voluntarily going to these places that are going to really hurt me. And yet I did that for a purpose and for what I knew I needed to get better. And so sometimes discomfort comes from healing that we still need to go through, especially if there's been sexual trauma or. Or sexual repression or again, the culture of cinephizing. A lot of our normal behaviors that we've had from the get go.

Natasha Helfer [00:10:56] And then the last way that I'm just going to talk about today is that you are uncomfortable because you've been taught to be uncomfortable. So if you've been told your whole life that this is how you're supposed to respond to certain stimuli more than often, we are influential creatures, and we will. So kind of the classic, if you tell a kid they're stupid long enough, they'll believe it. Well, we are influential creatures. And so when you're thinking about your own discomfort, whether it has to do with a sexual idea or a sexual behavior or a sexual maybe contracting concept that you're working out with your partner, I want you to be thinking about your discomfort from a wide area of possibility.

Natasha Helfer [00:11:45] Okay, Just. It's my first invitation to you. All right, so this was processing, but we're not doing that, so I'm moving on. All right, so number two concept that I want to present today is what is the baggage that typically we have coming from the backgrounds that we all in particular grew up in? And baggage, it doesn't necessarily have to be negative. Baggage is a suitcase. Right? It's a suitcase and it has things in it that might be really useful. And like, I don't know, me about three months into my purse. There's a lot of things in there that are no longer useful. Right. So I have to clean it out every now and then and keep the things that are useful and throw out the things that are not.

Natasha Helfer [00:12:35] So I would like to for a second talk about any positive messaging that we feel we actually received, whether in our Mormon upbringings or our United States upbringings per se. So this is where I would like a mic. We're going to spend about five minutes doing both positive and negative. But if people can just so just. I mean, this is kind of a blurred out thing. So it's kind of hard. It's not like get up and talk for three minutes, but just kind of, just really quickly. What would you say are some things that you think actually helped or edified your ideas around sexuality that you received either in your family, your Mormonism or your overall culture that helped?

Natasha Helfer [00:13:31] Yes. I know this is a hard group to sell, but I think that there's. Yes. Ands everywhere. Yes. That it was divine. That it was something you're procreating and very sacred. Is that what you're talking about? Yes. So there was something useful for you. Yeah. And the idea that this was something special, divine, you and your husband, it's too, you know, it's a beautiful thing to do. Okay, so there's something beautiful about this. In the right place, in the right time. There's something beautiful and wonderful that you can expect out of it. Wonderful. Thank you. Next.

Natasha Helfer [00:14:14] Comfort. Tell me a little bit more what I had to learn. That sex was comfort for me when I was sad or when I was traumatized or you had to learn that or you got that message from somewhere? I got that message from where?

Natasha Helfer [00:14:35] All right, so in your peer relationships, which I'm going to count your husband, there was a message that actually this might be something that might be comforting to you. Yes. Okay, perfect. Next. That is fun. Where'd you get that message? From the culture. Okay, so this is a fun thing to do, something to look forward to. Yes. Great.

Guest [00:15:06] Might be a little loaded, but have respect for your body and others bodies.

Natasha Helfer [00:15:11] Okay, so there was something about responsibility, respect that are important things to consider when relating with somebody sexually. Perfect.

Guest [00:15:23] That we're sexual creatures and we have

Natasha Helfer [00:15:26] needs and sex is part of that. Okay, so there was some normalization around a sexual drive.

Guest [00:15:33] Yeah.

Natasha Helfer [00:15:33] It's part of your upbringing. Yes. Okay, great. Anybody else? All right, great. So I'll just give you my list which is not comprehensive and some of you will have touched on it. I do think that there is actually some pro sex Mormon doctrine. Right. So compared to some Other religions where procreation really is the only reason to have sex and almost kind of like a necessary evil. We. And believe me, it takes me a lot to quote Bednar, but. I always give credit where credit is do

Guest [00:16:14] so.

Natasha Helfer [00:16:15] Sex is not just for procreation. It is for the strengthening of emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife. There are some limitations in that from a sex positive approach, of course, because it's very heterosexual oriented and it's very, you know, only in a certain context. And yet there is something really powerful about having a religious construct where sex is seen as something emotionally bonding between sexual spouses. So there's something, I think, good that we got there.

Natasha Helfer [00:16:46] I think that this concept that we do have in Mormonism that pleasure and joy are an important part of the human experience. Again, growing up in or living a lot in evangelical circles, this is not necessarily the case in all religious cultures where they really see the problem of the whole human problem is that we left the garden to begin with and that wasn't supposed to happen, and Eve kind of ruined it for all of us. And so we have this kind of different philosophy that we're here to experience pain, but we're also here to experience pleasure. Now, granted, I got fired from my Relief Society class for saying this, but I thought it was a very spiritual concept that we believe in divine beings that would create a clitoris, which it's only. It was Relief Society ladies.

Guest [00:17:37] Come on.

Natasha Helfer [00:17:39] I mean, I can understand being fired from sacrament. Where else can he talk about this? So I do think, and I really do think that if you're going to believe in divine beings, whom we are supposedly in their image and women have a body part that is purely only its only reason for existing is to experience pleasure.

Natasha Helfer [00:18:10] That's a pretty profound framing, you know, if you're going to believe in a heavenly mother and a heavenly father who created you. So I do think that there's some positivity there. I do believe that we have a lot of this idea that it strengthens a bond in Mormonism. I think that's a beautiful thought. I do think that we have some ideas around the body that are much more positive than a lot of other cultures where we do see the body as a gift. It's something we wanted, it's something we came seeking for. And a lot of our ideas about our body being a temple and being something you should respect and take care of again, I know we take it to extremes sometimes and we're super weird with the word of wisdom, but in a Sense, when you get to the common denominator, there's something kind of, I think, beautiful in respecting our bodies as something that is meant to be experienced for good.

Natasha Helfer [00:19:09] For some, this comes from the research of Jennifer Finlayson Fife, and she did her research on sexuality in Mormon women. Some Mormon women who interpreted the law of chastity in sex with positive ways, not gatekeeping ways, reported feeling that it helped them feel empowered to have boundaries, that it helped them decide for themselves when and if they wanted to experience sexual experiences. And it was easy to not give in to peer pressure or boyfriend pressure or things of that because they felt empowered by some of the law of chastity teachings. That was about 20, if I remember, 20 to 25% of her sample. The other part of the sample actually felt harmed by law of chastity teachings.

Natasha Helfer [00:19:56] But I just want to point out that for some people, to have, like, a structure and an ability to say no was empowering for them. Okay. I think there is something kind of cool about it being framed as something special, something sacred. You don't get naked and, I don't know, bump uglies. Is that the framing? You don't get naked and bump uglies with just anybody. Right. Even in casual sexual encounters, those are fairly atypical compared to how many people we interact with on a regular basis. So there is something vulnerable or special or interesting about who the partners are that we've chosen to have sexual relationships with.

Natasha Helfer [00:20:45] And if you want that to be in the framing of values in regards to intimacy, then that can even be a whole other level of special. That this is something that you and I only share. Right. That our relationship is different in this one way from every other relationship that's out there. So there is something kind of neat about that if you happen to be in that type of relationship.

Negative Sexual Messaging and Its Impact

Natasha Helfer [00:21:08] All right, so that was my positive list. Again, not comprehensive, but I think it's good to know the baggage we might want to keep. So negative messaging. Who wants to. Am I going to get more. Okay. Am I going to get more participation this time? Or what were some of the messages that either harmed you from Mormonism, your family culture, or your overall culture that you think, yeah,

Guest [00:21:35] masturbation is really bad and inappropriate and you're a horrible person if you do it?

Natasha Helfer [00:21:41] Yes. Thank you. That as a woman, you should not like or want sex. So, you know, I. And yet there's the flip side of. Or maybe I'll put it like, you will be considered the bad kind of woman if you do, because obviously on tv, there's a lot of sex,

Guest [00:22:08] but

Natasha Helfer [00:22:08] there's the underlying message of don't, don't be, you know, some. Yes, don't. Women. Women are more gatekeepers of sexuality than agents of sexuality. Thank you. Yes, go ahead, Emily.

Guest [00:22:22] Just the whole thought of sexual sin is next to murder.

Natasha Helfer [00:22:27] Yes.

Guest [00:22:28] Okay, so the implications of what that means to go up to line or anything like that.

Natasha Helfer [00:22:34] Right, right. How close are you getting to murdering somebody? Yep. Okay.

Guest [00:22:39] Yes.

Natasha Helfer [00:22:39] The great thing about the Mormon Church is there's a lot of conflicting messages, so. But one of the things that was big was that we as women need to not turn guys on that we have. Our bodies are kind of bad. We're responsible for arousal of another person. Yeah, yeah. And that's our responsibility. Thank you. I think because it's like supposed to be sacred and special that you're not allowed to let go and have fun. And if you enjoy it, then there's something wrong. Or if it's not like a romantic, special embracing thing, that you're doing it wrong. Okay. So the only type of good sex is tantric sex. Eye gazing, loving, soft embracing. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else?

Guest [00:23:29] Yes, just our singles ward bishop was a great guy. His little tidbit was anything consensual between the two of you once you're married is good as long as it brings you closer to the spirit and. Or closer together. I don't know. Somehow he just threw God in there and it really messed with my mind

Natasha Helfer [00:23:48] for a long time, so. Meaning your erotic template did not include Heavenly Father as part of your turn off the threesome?

Guest [00:23:56] Wasn't working.

Natasha Helfer [00:23:58] I guess. There's another one here.

Guest [00:24:02] Sorry. Oh, sorry.

Natasha Helfer [00:24:04] Go ahead. I'll take these two and then we'll keep going. In my family, sex was dirty. Sex is dirty? Yes. Something bad.

Guest [00:24:12] I think the absence of talking about it is sort of a negative messaging. I mean, I had a marriage prep class I remember in college and you know, I remember back. It didn't seem like we really got into anything thick details about stuff and that really would prepare us for that,

Natasha Helfer [00:24:29] you know, so it's all kind of an abstract.

Guest [00:24:32] Yeah. So you kind of left to the imaginary kind of like the earlier comments where, you know, if you don't mention it, what is okay.

Natasha Helfer [00:24:39] Right, Right. Okay, great. So I'm going to move on just for the sake of time. But we all come from fear based sexual education. Sexual education is only allowed to be reproductive in our culture. That's a legal issue, that's not a Mormon issue.

Natasha Helfer [00:24:56] Therefore that's why so many women and men don't even know what a clitoris is. A clitoris does not represent any reproductive function, so it's not taught in the school systems. Currently, 13 states are required to have medically accurate information in their sexual education. So that leaves however many states and also sexual education takes place place mostly at a time when most of us as adults don't want people to be sexual.

Natasha Helfer [00:25:25] It's not like we all go back to sex ed, you know, in our 20s or you know, in our 30s. We are mainly given sex ed, you know, like when periods start and stranger danger and then a few things about STIs and you know, don't get sick. So very fear driven, very non comprehensive, not emotionally based, not pleasure based, not anything in regards to actually helping you thrive as sexual beings.

Natasha Helfer [00:25:51] I don't know how many of you, every time you heard the term evils of the world, thought about money laundering, cheating, I don't know, car robbery. I think most of us are thinking about sex when people are talking about the evils of the world or something to do with sexuality. And even then we're not usually thinking about trafficking and sexual slavery and you know, incest. We're thinking about Madonna and Britney Spears, you know, kissing and you know, immodest bikinis and we're thinking about premarital sex and so. And gay people. Yeah. So really, really interesting as far as how we've interpreted the evils of sexuality. The next to murder.

Natasha Helfer [00:26:34] No spectrum. So again, if you're masturbating versus, you know, incest, it's all next to murder. Right. And I do think that there are sexual crimes that are next to murder. I've sat with many trauma victims who've told me they would have rather died than live through what they lived through.

Natasha Helfer [00:26:51] And yet we do not, we, we do not spectrum criminal sexual activity with consensual behavior even amongst teens. We all just put it all into one under umbrella. So very, very problematic. And too many of our teens who are virgins and wonderful members of our church are cutting themselves and depressed and anxious due to masturbation and other simple things. The object lessons, right? So once you're kind of the chewed gum, who's going to want you or the flower that gets passed around. And I had several of these in my own experience.

Natasha Helfer [00:27:30] So for those of us who are all talked to as if we are all still clean. And this becomes extremely conflictual for people who do have childhood sexual trauma. So they don't understand, you know, does that mean that I'm also, you know, so there's again no spectrum in between consensual sexual behavior and having been assaulted. And even then, even if you have like teens who are doing sexual consensual behavior, this is a completely inappropriate way to frame their worthiness.

Natasha Helfer [00:28:03] The natural man. So all of us have this sense of like, how could I, how can I really trust myself, right? How can I trust my desires, my fantasies, my eroticism? All of that is suspect. It's kind of, you're growing up and you're developing in a space of suspect for self when it comes to your sexual development.

Natasha Helfer [00:28:30] The arousal and thought process is and of itself bad. That's why if you go According to the 4 Strength for Youth pamphlet, we will all fail at that, including asexuals. Because now the research shows that asexuals still masturbate about twice a year.

Natasha Helfer [00:28:47] So we're all failing at this idea that even, you know, the sexual thoughts which are very normal to start noticing. I mean, that's part of developmental theory. At about 10, 11, 12. I remember having crushes when I was 5 or 6. To start noticing romance and sexuality as part of your development now gets turned into this really bad thing. And also thoughts of lust have been really conflated.

Natasha Helfer [00:29:16] So I can't tell you how many people, and I think I was even told this one time that if you, if you have sex before you're married with somebody that you think you love, you don't really love them, you lust after them.

Natasha Helfer [00:29:31] So conflating sexual chemistry, which is normal and you're supposed to have it with something that's bad, leads to many, many marriages in Mormonism where actually the person tells me I chose the safe person, not the person I was hot for. And now I'm wondering why I'm having sexual difficulties 20 years into a relationship where there was no sexual attraction to begin with. We were really good friends.

Natasha Helfer [00:30:00] The modesty rhetoric and rape culture is very, very strong. So from, you know, sexualizing young women in particular, this is very women driven. And also so many women that are large breasted or hippie or curvy, telling me how difficult it was for them, even if they were wearing modest attire, they were still shamed for being too sexy because, you know, their breasts were prominent. And I can't tell you how often I go into a young women's room and I see this posture.

Natasha Helfer [00:30:46] We cinephise the normal masturbation, curiosity, arousal, sexual chemistry, lust, excitement, you know, all of that. We sinifies it. This is a whole mess. I mean, we do slightly better in Mormonism, but Christianity and purity culture has this rampant in our media, in our songs, and in how women are portrayed. From this idea that the ultimate mother never had sex to begin with, to the temptress who's going to basically be the undoing of all mankind.

Natasha Helfer [00:31:25] Very, very difficult messages for women to go through. I remember feeling some of them myself as I became a mother. I almost felt like, huh, is there. There's something weird about me being sexual. I don't know how many of you remember Demi Moore posing pregnant and naked for the first time on Vogue magazine or something. And the outroar our country had about that, how she was sexualizing her unborn child. We understand the many dialogue we have about breastfeeding. Even now in our culture where we fetishize breasts.

Natasha Helfer [00:31:57] This is a huge problem. Men also have a huge disaster of issues from, you're supposed to know it all and have all the experience and be steadily. And know how to turn us on to, you're just going to flail or rape somebody or, I don't know, put your penis out there. Because we walk around in our porn shoulders.

Natasha Helfer [00:32:20] So very, very difficult messaging. Lots of insecurities for men, lots of toxic masculinity. And the relationship with the erect and large penis is such a painful space for so many men. As far as whether or not you're manly enough, whether or not you have enough, whether or not you're going to be a good enough lover, very, very tragic.

Natasha Helfer [00:32:43] Authority can go either way, right? So I've had people in my office that see their bishops or their young women's presidents as pivotal to their ability to survive a very difficult time in their lives. So I definitely want to honor that. There are people who do excellent jobs, especially supporting sexual trauma situations.

Natasha Helfer [00:33:07] Even, I would say, neutral stuff like the bishops that are like, well, yeah, you're masturbating. You know, try to do your best. That's better than others, right? Where it's like, you can't go on your mission now, and we're going to monitor you for six months before you can.

Natasha Helfer [00:33:24] And then, of course, there's real harm, right, with the sexual shaming. And I think most bishops do tremendous sexual harm never knowing. So. And not being a predator. Not being a predator. The predator stuff is criminal, and that's horrific. And we're having that conversation in our culture now. But that's somewhat separate because that happens in almost every culture. I do think that there is a larger propensity. The more oppressed a culture is, and we definitely fall under that risk and vulnerability. But I think most sexual harm happens unintentionally through the repentance and discipline and punishment structure and the unworthiness structure. And most of these men are just trying to do their job of supporting and being loving.

Natasha Helfer [00:34:05] And many of you probably were in those positions at the some point. Carolyn Pearson has written this great book, the Ghost of Polygamy, and I do really believe that when you come from a doctrine where at some level you are expecting even in the future to share a partner with another person, it messes with your ability to truly be intimate with one another. That's a whole other thing I could spend a day on.

Natasha Helfer [00:34:32] The sacred issue is a problem when, like you said, it's sets up this beautiful notion of, especially for, you know, uneducated, unexperienced young members that we're gonna hug and this making out that's been so lovely. It's just gonna, I don't know, culminate in something a little bit more. And all of a sudden there's grunts and noises and semen and like, it's like splaying down your leg and you're like, what just happened? And maybe he came in like two seconds the first time, and the girl's like, this was supposed to be the most momentous moment of my life.

Natasha Helfer [00:35:14] This is what I've been waiting for. This is what I've been saving myself for. Yeah. The sacred versus reality of what the sex act is about, which is quite animalistic and quite instinctual, and, you know, just kind of.

Natasha Helfer [00:35:36] It leaves people for a big kind of shock, you know, and a lot of unfortunate things happen in what I call honeymoon trauma that set up a couple who doesn't know how to talk or normalize things for years and years of dysfunction. Very, very sad with both of them not knowing what happened to them.

Natasha Helfer [00:35:55] So very sad. Sex addiction rhetoric is rampant, and we as a culture are very prone to be vulnerable to this misdiagnosis. This does not exist. This is not a diagnosis. I will not spend more time on this. I've got about 500 podcasts on Mormon sex info if you want to understand it better. It doesn't mean that we don't have problems. It doesn't mean that people aren't legitimately hurt around some of these issues, but it is not the way that we have framed it. And the way that we have framed it usually makes more problems. Like, John was talking about his anxiety around stopping something, and we have really driven the anxiety around this topic.

Natasha Helfer [00:36:33] So we've made it wonderfully worse. Everybody's looking at porn more. And every time Oakes talks about it, especially on Easter Sunday, I'm like, I'm so glad that I got to think about porn on Easter Sunday. Thank you, President Oaks. Maybe I'll go masturbate now.

Natasha Helfer [00:36:56] The media is rife with its own you don't need to be Mormon to be sexually messed up. Okay? You usually get the message that you need to be young, you need to be groomed, you need to be white, you need to be spontaneous, you need to be orgasming at the same time without talking to each other. There's no mention of STIs or birth control or there's music playing in the background. I mean, the messages are rampant.

Natasha Helfer [00:37:23] A certain size, right? So body shaming is huge. Ageism is huge when it comes to sexuality. So many things that so many of us don't feel like we even have a right to be sexual because we don't fit the parameters of sexual success. And what we deem to be a successful sexual encounter is pathetic. And it's very PIV oriented penis and vagina, which is not a consistent, reliable way for women to orgasm. So the orgasm gap is real. It's about 30% difference in our country right now. Men have 30% more orgasms than women. And many, many women go anorgasmic or non orgasmic for the majority of their lives.

Natasha Helfer [00:38:13] So number three, anybody feeling like that? Did I build up the anxiety really well? So a few ideas as far as where do we go from here? I do think re education of Ourselves is pivotal. And there's lots of, lots of wonderful books. I have lots of resources. Just natashaparker.org, i've got books galore that I recommend. I've got Mormon sex info as a podcast. I've got sex talk with Natasha. I mean I'm trying my hardest people to educate and re educate myself and all of you in the process. So really spending some time really understanding anatomy, eroticism and sexuality are in of themselves three very different things.

Natasha Helfer [00:39:01] So it's exciting to do that and hopefully we can look forward to that. The six principles of sexual health are a wonderful way to start. When you think about these principles, you really start understanding that most people sitting in the pews on Sunday who are married are not following the basic principles of sexual health. And when we tell our children that married sex is healthy sex, we set them up for a lifetime of failure. And that's what we were told that Marital sex was the key to good sex, and that is not the case. And this is why there can be casual encounters that are hookups that are healthy, just like there can be casual encounters and hookups that are not healthy.

Natasha Helfer [00:39:45] But there can be emotionally committed marital relationships that are healthy and not healthy as well. So consent, non exploitative. We are very exploitative in our sexuality. These are the classic guilt trips and poutings. And all those things that we do doesn't mean sex slavery, protection, of course. Honesty, shared values and the mutual pleasure piece is huge. So most of this doesn't happen because we don't know how to communicate with ourselves or with each other about sexuality.

Renegotiating Sexual Contracts in Mixed-Faith Marriages

Natasha Helfer [00:40:18] Sexual contracting. A big part of your task as a faith transitioning couple or mixed faith marriage is you get to actually look at your contract that you didn't even realize you had many times around sex, what sex meant, whether it was duty driven or what are the assumptions that we had about our sex life. What do we consider to be commitment or faithful or not faithful, whether or not we can have some level of privacy or not, through masturbation or individual fantasy, or if I have to share every single thought with you every single time I have one, so many things that we were never taught how to contract correctly, who wins?

Natasha Helfer [00:40:58] So the ownership rhetoric is huge in both romantic and Mormon culture. So this idea that I belong to you and you belong to me is pretty much the basis of every romantic song out there. And it sets you up for failure. Because if your behavior and your thoughts and your erotic template in your libido don't make me happy, we have a real problem.

Natasha Helfer [00:41:20] And that's a very, very unhealthy space to start a sexual contract from. Libido differences are a big part of that. And we get into these cycles, right, of somebody, initiates, there's possibly a rejection that causes hurt, pain, confusion. People usually resent that or pull back, heal enough to try again. And these become toxic cycles that eventually really drive wedges that oftentimes are deal breakers for a relationship, or you become a sexless marriage, or, you know, lots of things that can happen in that regard. And the other thing that we do is this idea of getting into meaning ruts, which we talked a little bit about yesterday.

Natasha Helfer [00:42:06] We make assumptions of what these things mean, when in reality we usually have no idea what they mean. Okay, when I really get help, people dive deeper. The meanings that they originally came up with were nothing that they had assumed.

Natasha Helfer [00:42:21] And it's usually, I'm not good enough or you're not good enough. And that's not what this is about. These issues are about. You want to have a diverse toolbox, diverse in helping you manage your sexuality as a couple and or individually.

Natasha Helfer [00:42:37] I want you to just like we've talked about all the values, you really need to come up with your sexual values. These are ideas. These are not musts. You have to decide what's going to be on your values list. The only musts that I have are those six principles of sexual health.

Natasha Helfer [00:42:56] And sex is good for you. It just is. It's really good for you, has some of the best health benefits around. It beats mindfulness. And if you want to prioritize this in your life, you really should not be going longer than two weeks without having a sexual encounter with yourself or with your partner. Because if you go longer than that, what starts happening is the anxiety feedback loop. Because now we're like, anxiously wondering, is this about sex? Oh, you touched me. Oh, I better not touch you. Or, you know, because now I don't know if this is about really having sex or just having affection.

Natasha Helfer [00:43:35] And that's one of the things that is really, really sad, is that physical affection gets trampled when you have uncommunicated sexual issues, because you can't even have affection without it, meaning sex or the possibility of sex. Lots of interventions like sex therapy, sex help books, webinars, podcasts, prioritize this part of your life. The biggest myth is that sex is just supposed to happen spontaneously and naturally and lovingly. And I'm like, anything natural rests and erodes and rots.

Natasha Helfer [00:44:16] So don't leave it up to a natural process. Anything that you want in your life that's worth fighting for takes energy, money, time and commitment and intention. So if you want a good sex life, you need to invest in it just like anything else. It's worth it.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.