In this in-depth conversation, John sits down with Karen Hyatt to explore her lifelong faith journey in the LDS Church and the research that ultimately led to her excommunication. Karen shares her background as a devoted member -convert parents, mission service, leadership roles, and decades without doubt –before explaining what prompted her to closely examine Doctrine and Covenants 132 and the history of polygamy.
The discussion traces Karen’s deep divine into church history, including the Book of Mormon’s condemnation of polygamy, early revelations, the Nauvoo Expositor, William Clayton’s journals, Emma Smith’s role, and conclusions reached by modern LDS historians. Karen explains why she ultimately rejected D&C 132, why she believes Joseph Smith did NOT practice polygamy, and how she responds to accusations of bias or conspiracy thinking.
Karen also walks through the personal and institutional consequences of speaking publicly: compiling and sending her research to the Apostles (and their wives!), creating videos, disciplinary councils, losing her temple recommend, and being barred from paying tithing –while still choosing to attend church and value her ward community. The episode examines broader themes of authority, misinformation, prophetic fallibility, confirmation bias, and whether faith can exist without institutional silence.
This episode is a candid, emotionally grounded look at belief, dissent, and the cost of challenging one of Mormonism’s most controversial doctrines.
Karen has compiled her research into a book titled “Woe Unto You, Scribes: The Hidden History of Polygamy.”
You can order a spiral bound notebook online by emailing her: WoeUntoYouScribes@gmail.com
To find a PDF version of her book click here: https://josephtoldthetruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Woe-Unto-You-Scribes.pdf
One Response
This was a super interesting interview, and many times I felt a lot of sympathy and agreement with Karen. Her earnestness in trying to show just how bad mormon polygamy was and giving voice to mormon women who shudder at polygamy was powerful to hear. A few times her unshakable conviction ‘almost persuadeth me’ that maybe Joseph Smith didn’t practice polygamy. But even if she is correct, as an ex-mormon there are just too many other issues with JS and the church that it practically wouldn’t matter to my loss of testimony. If she’s right, then there’s no way I can have faith in the prophetic abilities of the church to not be able to show why those church historians they’re wrong.
Overall I thought John was very respectful with this interview and I applaud him for doing it. One question I would have loved to hear is if Karen could conceive of the possibility that even if the BOM is inspired and a testament to JS’s prophetic ability, is it possible he lost his way afterwards? Because it sounded like the BOM is the rock of her testimony of JS, and she feels indifferent to explore the other significant scandals of his life.