John and Carah discuss information received from a stake president currently serving along the Wasatch Front. On condition of anonymity, he was eager to share insider information and proprietary data about:

  • Declines in church participation and mission activity since the COVID-19 pandemic;
  • Widespread non-literal belief and crises of faith among active members;
  • Right-wing disaffection by “Preppers,” “Trumpers,” “anti-vaxxers,” etc.; and
  • Chaos as administration scrambles to meet the dramatic rise in temple construction ordered by President Russell M. Nelson.

Show Notes:



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  1. Brooke March 3, 2022 at 9:18 am - Reply

    Yesss LOVING this content!!!

  2. Brooke March 3, 2022 at 9:38 am - Reply

    I think you guys should call it a faith transition or faith awakening… The church wants you to think it is a crisis, but really it is the ultimate freedom!

  3. Lara March 4, 2022 at 11:11 am - Reply

    I think the church is intentionally changing the demographic and it’s an intentional decision that membership is declining. They are weeding out the extreme far right individuals and appealing to moderate/left peoples. They are in a gradual shift that is too gradual for leftists right now but once it’s complete they will rebuild with the moderate demographic they want.

    • Jeanmarie March 26, 2022 at 4:26 pm - Reply

      I think you’ve got it backwards. The church seems to me to be skewing right to keep the rich old-timers. Younger people who are more moderate/left are reportedly leaving in droves. They are not building moderacy.

  4. Lara March 4, 2022 at 11:34 am - Reply

    Edit to add… I meant to say “They are in a gradual shift that is too gradual for leftists and too fast for the far right…”

  5. VFanRJ March 6, 2022 at 11:27 am - Reply

    No doubt Nelson has burned the book on community member requirements (tithing and temple attendance being a key ones) for getting temples built. Back in the 90s, our stake president said that SLC said that our temple attendance was too low to get one by. Clearly, those policies are gone.

  6. fbisti March 15, 2022 at 12:13 pm - Reply

    First time I have watched. At this point (33 minutes) I must ask: Why is that woman there with John? She is not helpful, just strange, immature, and disruptive.

  7. Ed March 20, 2022 at 7:53 am - Reply

    The people who gave video responses were delightfully genuine, open, sincere, and clear-eyed. The comfort they feel in having a forum where they can express their real thoughts and feelings and the truths of their lives is so apparent. In the church, they could only feel like a valued member if they did and said what was expected, acceptable, and proscibed. The freedom to speak frankly is liberating and you can see it in their countenance. The contrast between them and the chuch’s spinmasters who are trying to do damage control speaks volumes. I am repeatedly struck by this contrast each time I watch a podcast interview. As for the church’s approval of celibate homosexuality, and their marriages to heterosexuals, that is not a change in policy and it is not tenable or healthy. When is the church going to get out of the bedroom and get over its obsession with sex . . . Who has it, with whom, and in what fashion.. After centuries of unsuccessfully trying to guilt away and preach away human sexuality, surely by now religions should turn their focus elsewhere. Our hormones are not going to go away.

  8. Troy Zens July 27, 2022 at 3:07 pm - Reply

    I could not refrain from commenting. Perfectly written!

  9. Dan Ipsen January 17, 2024 at 8:00 am - Reply

    I don’t see the Mormon church going away. History is a good predictor of the future. The church has had other major crises throughout its history. You wouldn’t think it would survive them but it did. I’m fascinated by people’s persistence to believe in anything, whether it be in religion, politics, holistic wellness. People like to believe in something and for many this church still suits them just fine. Most of the people I know are somewhat aware of the problems with the church and they don’t care. People still want to worship and serve and the church provides that for them.

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