A few weeks back we live-streamed an interview with John Larsen of Mormon Expression podcast, allowing folks to call in. John and I began by interviewing each other about our experiences as Mormon podcasters… and then we will opened the lines to listener questions.

It was a blast. Thanks, John! And thanks to all who called in.

John Dehlin

Part 1

Download MP3

Part 2

Download MP3


  1. Joe August 30, 2010 at 9:21 pm - Reply

    Epic fail!

    The MormonExpression(.com) podast team is way too antagonistic. If I wanted to listen them (John Larsen, Et al.), I would.

    John, you are giving me yet another reason to distance myself (further) from MormonStories.org.

  2. Jim August 30, 2010 at 9:32 pm - Reply


    Antagonistic? Hardly. Mormon Expressions set out from the beginning to share all viewpoints. Yes, at times we ask the hard questions. Is that what you mean by Antagonistic? If not, please enlighten me on what makes Mormon Expressions antagonistic?

  3. Marshall Bond August 30, 2010 at 10:57 pm - Reply

    Oh please, Joe. The description states that they’re going to talk about Mormon podcasting. You can plug your ears if it gets too rough for you. I admire both of the Johns for putting themselves out there to explore all facets of Mormonism. They are the vanguard of the next mormon internet generation, like it or not.

  4. Chino Blanco August 30, 2010 at 11:22 pm - Reply

    Sounds like y’all are headed for a disaster of biblical proportions … Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

    Now I definitely have to listen in.

  5. Swearing Elder August 31, 2010 at 3:50 am - Reply

    Hey Joe, if you want an antagonistic Mormon podcast try Irreligiosophy (https://www.irreligiosophy.com/). Mormon Expression basically just looks at Mormonism from an objective point of view. They’ve done several podcasts that are quite sympathetic to believers.

    I plan to call in — I think this will be great fun.

  6. Brian August 31, 2010 at 7:41 am - Reply

    Very exciting! I can’t wait to listen.

  7. Brian August 31, 2010 at 8:48 am - Reply

    Joe- I used to think the same thing until I actually started to listen to them. Now that I am more familiar with Mormon expression, I believe that they try really hard to give a fair presentation of the issues they discuss. The problem is that whenever you are willing to listen and participate in open dialogue, you are going to encounter opposing view points, which can be challenging, and come across as antagonistic. I believe that if you really like John Dehlin, then you could really appreciate a great deal that comes from the “The MormonExpression(.com) podast team.”

  8. Dave August 31, 2010 at 9:01 am - Reply

    MST? Does that mean you’re time shifting back an to throw off the less alert?

    Mountain Daylight (Savings) Time runs from Sunday 14 March 2010 2am local time
    until Sunday 7 November 2010 2am. Do we fall back or spring forward to compensate or did you mean to post 8:30 pm MDT? I’ll be waiting for the stream. Can one step into the same audio stream twice?

  9. John Dehlin August 31, 2010 at 9:55 am - Reply

    Mountain whatever. Sorry.

  10. Hueffenhardt August 31, 2010 at 7:10 pm - Reply

    They must be having technical difficulties, because I’ve got nothing. A few people popped in the chatroom for a moment then timed out.

  11. Hueffenhardt August 31, 2010 at 7:12 pm - Reply

    Oops, I still have an hour and fifteen minutes to go before start time.

  12. badseed September 1, 2010 at 9:45 am - Reply


    Hope you recorded the show and are going to post it sometime. I hadn’t kept up with the blog and missed the show.

  13. julia September 3, 2010 at 10:54 am - Reply

    Please post…Can’t wait to hear it.

  14. Ah Q September 4, 2010 at 10:48 pm - Reply

    Chino Blanco FTW!!!1 Love the Ghost Busters allusion.

  15. Holden Caulfield September 5, 2010 at 8:23 pm - Reply

    ditto on the please post. Missed original.

  16. philosophe roi September 7, 2010 at 5:58 pm - Reply

    For those that missed the taping (it was great fun), the discussion has been posted at Mormon Expression’s website at:


  17. Polly Anna September 8, 2010 at 9:17 am - Reply

    I’m such a fan of both Mormon Stories and Mormon Expressions. Don’t listen to the haters John! I wish you would do more podcasts like this. I love just hearing you both talk and shoot the breeze. You have plenty of credibility to me. The fact that your position just shows that you are a real person on a real faith journey. I’m sad that you get more hate then the other john. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said “when you stand in middle of the road you get hit form both directions.” You guys always give me a lot to think about. Thanks!

  18. Patrick September 10, 2010 at 12:10 am - Reply

    I joked with John Dehlin at the Mormon Expression conference that Mormon Stories was my gateway podcast to the hardstuff, Mormon Expression. I consider myself a total groupie for both. Heck, I’d even be their roadie if they wanted me to carry their suitcases and set up their microphones. I might get a “John and John forever” tattoo…but that might be too Prop 8.

    I had listened to pretty much all the old Mormon Stories/Mormon Matters podcasts right about the time that John Dehlin started up Mormon Stories again. I had read/heard that he had stopped producing the podcast because of the effect it was having on his listeners testimonies. Let me say for the record that, John, you couldn’t have been a fairer or more balanced host. I thought that you did (and do) a phenomenal job allowing your guests to tell their story and their own testimony. I was able to examine my faith more throughly through your interviews than I had ever done in thirty years of Sunday School. Thank you.

    Final end of story is that while I can’t muster up the Cultural brand of mormon identity of John Larson, I understand my mormonism way more than I ever did while active in the church.

    And for every fan of Mormon Stories, give Mormon Expression a try. They’re the coolest bunch of cats, who every week come back to entertain the unwashed masses. They do a great job of keeping it real.

  19. nasterblaster September 21, 2010 at 5:27 pm - Reply

    I am currently listening to the interview. I should let all know, I am a recent ex-mo. Ex bishop ex-SP member. I loved and appreciated the honesty about ‘waffling’ that was discussed. I am very lucky that although having a multi-generational family in the LDS church; I am so glad that my ‘exit’ did not occur in Utah. I served a mission there many years ago so I understand how difficult, socially, emotionally, genealogically, and even employment wise that it can be for a member, no longer believing deciding to leave can be. My heart goes out to those who struggle with their own personal integrity on this matter. I know how that feels. It is not an easy road, no matter what is decided. I just wanted some to know that there really is a ‘light’ at the end of the tunnel. ‘If’ it is something someone feels strongly about doing (leaving) it is not the end of your life, career and personal growth like you may have been convinced in the back of your mind that it is. Made with the right motives, it can indeed be the most amazing, enlightening and wonderfully ‘freeing experience’. Again this is not an encouragement to leave, simply a side note that it can be done, with joy, happiness, and family and friends staying kind and caring. Much of this has to do with the “how one goes about it”. Your podcast touched on this a few weeks ago. I commend both of you for your integrity in living the way you currently live, with the decisions you have made currently to stay. That simply does not mean you can’t change your mind, IF you believe it will bring you greater personal peace and joy. It did for me, and for all of my immediate family. Thank you for your efforts in regards to sharing your personal journey’s with all of us, in and out of the ‘fold’. It is a courageous act no matter what side of the fence the enlightened may be on.

  20. Daniel Parkinson September 23, 2010 at 8:24 pm - Reply

    Hey John D. I am glad you are open about your evolution when you talk about your relationship with your religion. You talk about changing so fast…and even apologize, but really, what I hear you describe is that you are evolving… and you should. The things that you describe as changing rapidly are your opinions mainly, ie whether you or someone should stay in the church when they stop believing….or whether the church does more harm than good… I say no one can criticize you for changing your mind on these matters that are opinions every time you get new information, hear a different story or re-think the matter. I don’t that you are changing your fundamental core so rapidly and that the changes that are happening there are coming out of your personal integrity and your personal spiritual journey.
    I guess I wrote this because you apologized for having changed…but I don’t think you need to apologize, and I don’t think anybody stands on good ground when the criticize your position (based on what I know about you mainly from these podcast interviews).
    Keep up the awesome work…I think you are helping lost souls in a way you never imagined when you were 19-21 (sorry to use this thread to post something personal to you…but I guess you asked for it by opening up in your interview).

  21. Nathan Lisgo September 27, 2010 at 7:43 am - Reply

    Sometime you have to do a live broadcast at a time that is suitable for us brits too. Maybe on a Saturday, I know you probably have better things to do but I throw the idea out there!

  22. Nathan Lisgo September 28, 2010 at 3:32 am - Reply

    John Larsen mentioned an interview with Dallin H Oaks by Sheri L Dew. Can you post a link to that video or audio stream. I wasn’t able to locate it easily.

  23. Nathan Lisgo September 28, 2010 at 3:33 am - Reply
  24. Nathan Lisgo September 28, 2010 at 3:38 am - Reply


    I will be checking out some of these interviews. Thanks for the recommendation. More to listen to on my cycles!!

    Thank you so much for the work you are doing.

  25. Michael Closson from Toronto Stake October 22, 2010 at 12:55 pm - Reply

    Whoa. I’m late to the game for this podcast.

    Overall it was great. I think both Johns are balanced.

    For what its worth, I just want to give a little feedback to John Larsen, when Joel bore his testimony you got a little mad. (Just saying)

  26. Jay Bryner October 28, 2010 at 9:20 pm - Reply

    A couple of comments after listening to the podcast.

    Issues pushing people out of the church – I’d say that there is a strange dynamic where the hardest working, most devout/faithful people also take the most abuse. I think that pushes people away.

    Proposition 8 – I still have a lot to learn about the homosexual point of view. Before saying anything on the subject I mentally switch the word ‘gay’ with the words ‘single mother’ and if I wouldn’t say it about ‘single mothers’ then I don’t say it about gay people.

  27. iamse7en November 8, 2010 at 9:16 am - Reply

    You edited this… I can’t find the part where I called in. I’d like to have a copy of our conversation!

  28. Lance Charlton November 11, 2010 at 1:34 pm - Reply

    @Nathan Lisgo…thank you for posting that link with Elder Oaks and his wife interviewed by Sherrie Dunn. I was able to watch the whole thing and I heard some good advice given by the both of them to help with a few personal problems I have been having in my life.

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