Caleb's Background and Conversion Story

John Dehlin [00:00:01] What's your name?

Caleb Proulx [00:00:02] Caleb. Prue.

John Dehlin [00:00:04] Caleb, where are you from?

Caleb Proulx [00:00:06] Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

John Dehlin [00:00:07] Oh yeah. Isn't that a famous place within Mormonism?

Caleb Proulx [00:00:13] Not so. I believe there's a visit. I forget who it was. Maybe one of the Pratts went through Columbia once and recorded a vision there, but I'm not an authority on it. It's along as Husqvahna but far from the priesthood sites. It's known for its Amish people though.

John Dehlin [00:00:31] Oh, Lancaster. That's right. Tell us about your perspectives today on your personal spiritual journey and specifically within Mormonism.

Caleb Proulx [00:00:48] Well, in the context of the church, I. My bringing up was a little unusual compared to perhaps an average Mormon because my father was excommunicated. He was a convert at the church. My mother was a convert when she was 14 with her family. My father was excommunicated basically for apostasy, believing that he was. He ought to be in leadership in the church. I'll just leave it at that. So growing up he was very angry about the church and vitriolic at points and a lot of personal problems between he and my mom. He was kind of a controlling person, believed in a very patriarchal order. So at a young age I would hear a lot of what we typically call anti Mormon stuff. So by the time I was I guess of age or as I was going into adulthood, I'd already heard a lot of things, anything Solomon Spalding manuscript to blood, atonement to church history. So I'd heard those growing up and kind of had to reconcile or deal with those. As far as my personal journey. In99 I started at BYU and I also must add that I'm from a. My dad's family was good Catholic Democrat family. So we grew up liberal, which is always like we viewed as something that set us apart from other Mormons even back east. So I always kind of felt different from mainstream Mormonism and that was pretty apparent when I came out to BYU and then when the Iraq war started. And I bring up this story because I feel it's kind of central to who I am. But when the Iraq war started in 03, I believe I kind of attempted some anti war organizing on campus because I felt like the issue whether we should go to war or not wasn't really being talked about and I wasn't very successful in really starting a dialogue on campus for a variety of reasons. So I really kind of bumped up against provincial close minded attitudes that a lot of conservative Mormons have. And I felt a lot of hate, honestly a lot of hate directed towards me from the BYU community and the Utah community at large, and subsequently left BYU after I had been arrested in civil disobedience up in Salt Lake. It was rather big news, at least in Utah. Most people have forgotten about it now. But that for me was a big challenge because although I wouldn't say my testimony was very deep at that time, I really did have to like, I did have to emotionally process a lot of feelings of bitterness towards Mormons in general. Subsequently went on my mission. I went on my mission late when I was 23 and served in Nevada Las Vegas. Before my mission, I had a crisis of faith, realizing that I had not really gained as strong of a testimony as I needed to go on a mission to really teach the gospel, to preach it, which I think is a little different than teaching. So I had a pretty intense spiritual experience where I had been fasting and praying for about a week straight. And up to that point in my life it was probably even more so than the loneliness I felt being at byu. As someone who felt my feelings were at odds with the BYU community, this was even more so because it had to do with my own spiritual well being. It was like the darkest spiritual point in my life up to that point. Praying to get an answer whether the church was true or not, really, whether there was a God or not. I think it was a culmination of a long process of being lost spiritually. God A Witness of the Spirit at Stake Conference that was pretty dramatic for me which sustained me throughout my mission. My mission was a very rewarding experience and there was a point, there was a point on my mission where I know it sounds bad, but I really didn't care if the church was true or not or the doctrines were true because it made me. Being a missionary and believing, because I think a lot of belief is choice. There's a lot of choice involved in belief. Believing and being a missionary made me the happiest I've ever been in my life because it gave me purpose and direction. So I felt at that time my testimony was based a lot on loyalty. And I don't think that was a bad thing. I really do love the church for a lot of things and feel like I will always probably be loyal to it. I don't know if I've gone beyond the scope of your question. It's kind of a long story.

What Caleb Loves About the Church

John Dehlin [00:06:24] What do you love about the church?

Caleb Proulx [00:06:28] One thing that I love about the church, as others have said, is the community. I just. I love it that we have to, especially for someone who finds themselves out of mainstream political thought for Mormons. I love being challenged and trying to find a place within the community, reconciling those things, having to deal with that tension, for example, on my mission, as you taught people, and they might have to go to the bishop to talk about things or maybe get an exceptions interview for serious transgressions. My experience as I watched bishops and members of my mission presidency, I was impressed with how loving and kind they were in helping people repent. And I looked to that as something that really impressed me and that I really value in my own associations with bishops. So I've always felt loved by those who are in a position of authority over me, like my bishop. And also the opportunity to develop charity, like home teaching with callings and the like. And just learning to love, I think is what the church is an opportunity for us to do that. And there's other things, but that's my primary one.

Struggles, Frustrations, and Hopes for Change

John Dehlin [00:07:55] Are there times in your church experience where you struggle or are there things that frustrate you or you wish might be different?

Caleb Proulx [00:08:03] Certainly, I think being at odds with the BYU community, to put it in a short form, was really hard for me because I had to reconcile. It was an opportunity for me to turn away from the church and blame the church for what, how I was treated. I would say so that was an opportunity for me to rise above that, which was a difficult thing. But I feel that I did that. So coming up against attitudes that I felt do not represent the type of values and the type of life that the church really does promote in their members is always kind of a struggle for me. But I also view it as a good opportunity. I've had issues with doctrine. However, I would say that many of my doctrinal questions, for the most part, I've come to terms with mainly through personal experiences with the Spirit, mainly through feeling love from God, reading the scriptures, praying, and having those experiences where those things I can fall back on and recognize that I'm not going to get all the answers to my questions in this life. But putting faith in God, I really do believe the Book of Mormon is the Word of God literally changed my life. And I believe in the existence of God because I feel like I felt his love. And those things sustain me when I do not understand or when I feel feel at odds with membership of the church.

John Dehlin [00:09:44] Do you ever wish that the church maybe had a different or more stronger position about the war or war in general?

Caleb Proulx [00:09:58] I certainly wish that they could could perhaps be in a position to strongly oppose the war I perhaps would say that they may not feel themselves in that type of position, that they have that luxury. It really depends on what you view the church's role as. I certainly was. I could honestly say there was some disappointment on my part. My bigger disappointment, however, was really just with the BYU environment. Why couldn't we talk about it? Why couldn't we hear opposing viewpoints? Why is that so bad? So it's more of the. It's more of the. My mother calls it intellectual inbreeding that you might find at byu. That is more offensive to me than whether or not the church took a strong stand on it. Because the leadership of the church has to accommodate many different types of people, conservatives and liberals alike, Americans, non Americans. So I appreciate their position and the delicacy of their position.

Caleb's Personal Spiritual Creed

John Dehlin [00:11:21] So when you think about your personal spiritual creed, what are sort of the pillars or the tenets of it?

Caleb Proulx [00:11:35] I feel like something that is important to me is that I live a determined life. One of my big determinations now, and this is developed only recently, is to. To always be. Always, throughout my life, be committed to progress personally, spiritually. Coming closer to God. Because I view coming closer to God. Well, let me paraphrase a quote by Joseph Smith where he said, we really don't comprehend who we are until we comprehend. We don't really comprehend our nature until we comprehend the character of God. So I see that as the path of knowing oneself is. Is literally the path of coming to God because I believe he can show you who you really are. And I've had experiences where I feel like that I do also believe intention, to borrow Ashley Sandra's phrase, choosing a word. I relish being uncomfortable because it spurs me on and. And as far as certain values of the church, particularly from the Scriptures, I like the focus on developing charity and love and becoming committed towards God and towards others and learning to love them as God does. So I guess that would constitute my creed right now.

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