Introduction and Community Testimonial Project

John Dehlin [00:00:00] Hi, everyone.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:00:00] I'm John Dehlin of Mormon stories podcast. About 20 years ago, after being raised as a Mormon, living my entire life as a devout, orthodox, faithful Mormon, I had a faith crisis. It was so personally devastating to me and to my family and to those around me and to so many friends that in 2005, 15 years ago, I started a podcast called Mormon Stories with the intent of helping to prevent anxiety and depression, to prevent suicides and prevent unnecessary divorce and family division due to issues related to Mormonism. I've been doing that podcast for about 15 years. I. I got a PhD in clinical and counseling psychology along the way so that I could help as many people as possible prevent as much depression and sadness and anxiety and suicide and unnecessary divorce as I possibly could.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:00:54] Over the years, I've received thousands and thousands of emails and messages from listeners that I've helped them and I've helped their families, and it's been incredibly rewarding. Unfortunately, recently, an apologetic hate group sponsored by the Mormon Church, directly and indirectly financed by the Mormon Church through organizations like the More Good foundation and Fair Mormon, sponsored by people like Scott Gordon and John lynch, hired these actors, guys like Kwaku, Lynn Carden Ellis and Brad Whitbeck, to launch a smear campaign against me and a dear friend named Jeremy, author of a letter called Letter to a CES Director, wherein they claim that Jeremy Runnels and I intentionally homewreck for profit and that that's our intention for what we do.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:01:46] Let me go ahead and play that clip really quick so you can hear the allegations when you intellectually dishonestly for self aggrandizement or self enrichment, create materials meant to bas break up families. When you go homewrecking for profit, I call that evil.

John Dehlin [00:02:04] All right?

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:02:04] And that's what John Dehlin and Jeremy do, is they homewreck for profit. There's no other way of putting it in my mind. Okay, so what I did is I put a call out to my listeners and my viewers and I basically just asked if Mormon Stories Podcast) or my work or Jeremy Runnels work have been helpful to you or to your families.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:02:26] Would you please record a short video and just share with us how Mormon Stories or Letter to the CES Director has been helpful to you or your families. And so, in response to this hate group that the Mormon Church has sponsored through FairMormon, in response to those allegations, to Cardinalis, to Kwaku L, to Brad Whitbeck, to John lynch, to Scott Gordon and all the people who sponsor hate through the Mormon Church, I give to you this video and I in advance. I thank all of the many listeners and viewers who were willing to share their testimonies of how Mormon Stories and CES Letter have. Have been helpful to their families. Thanks so much. Take a look.

John Dehlin [00:03:12] Hello, my name is Katherine Pond. Hi, my name's Hannah.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:03:17] My name is Brandon. Check it. Hey, John.

John Dehlin [00:03:19] Hi, John. Hi, John. Hi, John. Colette Larsen here. Hello.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:03:24] Sam and Sarah Pinson here. And we're happy to share this video message about how Mormon Stories Podcast) and the CS Letter has helped our marriage and our family. Hello, everyone. This is Kent McCourt. I am making this video as a personal thank you to John Dehlin and the Open Stories foundation for helping save my marriage.

John Dehlin [00:03:41] Hi, my name is Meredith and I just want to say that I am so grateful for the Mormon Stories podcast.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:03:48] Hi, my name is Corey Fielding. I'm making this video to unequivocally state that John Dehlin and the Mormon Stories podcast have had a significant, positive influence on my life. And not only on my life, but the lives of many of my family members and friends.

John Dehlin [00:04:01] This video is a shout out to Dr. John Dehlin at Mormon Stories Podcast) for literally changing my life. He freed me from 44 years of domestic violence, mind control, and a life that I could no longer live. So in response to criticisms and and the smearing of John Dillon's good name, we wanted to come on here and give our own testimonial of how Mormon Stories has greatly benefited our lives.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:04:25] You know, I grew up in the church, 110% invested. Everything because it was the truth. Everything, everything was the church.

John Dehlin [00:04:36] The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was everything to me. I lived that religion, I mean, to the fullest. I was a really, really good Mormon. And I loved it. I loved every aspect of it.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:04:51] Lifelong devout member of the LDS Church, Eagle Scout, returned missionary, married in the Temple Elders Quorum Presidency, Executive secretary. I guess that's my Mormon resume.

John Dehlin [00:05:04] I loved the plan of salvation and the Gospel and embraced it with all of my heart. I honestly don't think in my whole life that there's ever been a Sunday that I electively missed church. I was extremely active. The Mormon organization really controlled every minute of every day, every aspect of my life. I gave over to my covenants and to God. Even the underwear that I wore, getting out of the Chevron, putting on that Mormon underwear. Everything was devoted to the church, served

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:05:33] in all sorts of different capacities, young men's presidencies. I was an Elders Quorum president, served on the Stake High Council and most recently was bishop in the ward here.

John Dehlin [00:05:46] I was born and raised an LDS member of the church. I was married in the LDS Temple. Never thought that I would find myself in a faith transition. And it was dark and hard, and especially hard on my very fresh marriage.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:06:02] You know, I was a very active member, you know, Bishop Rick High Council, young man's president, involved in the PEC for about 10 years straight. And, you know, my life was the church. I grew up a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I served a mission and my grandfather even worked very closely with the 12 apostles and the prophets. So I grew up hearing very personal stories about their lives and their work in the church. And I grew up loving them and trusting them. And it was long before the CES Letter or the Mormon Stories podcast that I lost my faith in the church.

John Dehlin [00:06:37] We are just trying to live here amongst Mormon neighbors whom we love and family members who are active, family members who have left. We're trying to live as equals in our very Mormon community. And Mormon Stories I think is a really important tool in allowing us to live as equals. I was raised in the church. I am still a believing member of the church. I go to byu and I personally really appreciate the Mormon Stories podcast because I've had doubts, like everyone has doubts. You're supposed to question things and find your own testimony.

John Dehlin [00:07:16] And this podcast has really helped me get there. Mormon Stories podcast has been super helpful for me to feel comforted and validated in the choice that I have made to leave the church that no longer served me or brought me happiness. I can vouch for the sincerity that John de Lynn has in his Mormon Stories podcast.

John Dehlin [00:07:41] I have learnt so much and it has brought our family closer together by the choices that we made, partly due to the information and discussions that John has shared.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:07:52] Chad, I am recently divorced. I also recently came out as gay, something I have known pretty much my whole life but resisted and hidden from because I have always been deeply converted to the Gospel of Jesus Christ as claimed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I want to say thank you to the Mormon Stories podcast and to the CES Letter and Jeremy, John and everyone else involved in this community.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:08:21] Because of these resources, my best friend, my co parent and my former spouse, Addie and I were able to helpfully make this transition. It would have been so much more messy if she was still subscribed to the orthodox narrative set forth by the church surrounding LGBTQ issues surrounding eternal marriage and temple covenants. It's still been painful, but it's been much less painful being free from all of these unhealthy narratives and dogma set forth by the church. You know, so many doubts came up. Questions as far as, you know, history, consistency of doctrine, and those things were really weighing heavily upon my mind. I reached the point where I couldn't continue in the church anymore, and I was looking for resources, help me understand what to do, having reached that point.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:09:18] Well, it was two years ago when I was working with members of the ward and helping them with concerns they had and trying to do my best to serve them, to try and help find answers for them. It also created a struggle for me as well, I think my frustration that although some questions were addressed and helpful, there was some frustration that developed for me feeling like the full story wasn't being shared. I feel like if.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:09:54] If it's. If it's true, if it's right, it's good. The whole thing can be shared. And I just didn't feel like that's what was being presented on those apologetic

John Dehlin [00:10:04] websites, his faith crisis. And it was terrifying because the church has taught me my whole life that the most important thing is to have an eternal family, and that wouldn't be possible if I didn't have a believing husband. And so it kind of felt like the church was telling me that, like, we needed to get a divorce, that we needed to separate. And so that was, like, a really sad and dark time. And he. Then he, like, tried to, like, explain it more, and he introduced me to Mormon Stories, and we were able to, on our own time, listen to the podcasts and hear stories of people who were feeling similar things to Trevor and experiencing similar things. And it helped me to understand what he was feeling.

Leaving the Church and Questioning Leadership

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:11:01] With the 2015 LGBTQ exclusion policy and its reversal, I realized that church leaders could lead the church astray. And that as I looked closer at church history, I realized that church leaders were not always honest. And these unhappy feelings at church ultimately led to religious differences between my wife and I, which ultimately led to our divorce. And again, this was all before Mormon Stories podcast for the CES letter. I hadn't even heard about them. This is all my own personal research.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:11:33] And it wasn't until after all of this that I found the post Mormon community, that I found the CES letter, that I found Mormon Stories Podcast). And from these, I got healing. I learned that my concerns were valid, that I wasn't crazy, that it was alright to have differences, but what it was was the strict beliefs of the LDS church that led me to being unhappy and led to the break of my family. And it was through the post Mormon community that I found healing.

John Dehlin [00:12:11] This isn't a place of hate or anger against the church. It's a space of comfort for those of us that are looking for it and no longer are finding that. Within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I've found them to be very open minded, caring just about giving information, not trying to make you leave the church, just trying to provide support for those who have or who are struggling in the church and to encourage them to do what's best for them. And that obviously includes staying in the church. And I just think it's sad to view this podcast as anti Mormon. That is not the case.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:12:54] First, I just want to point out that it was the Gospel topic essays and Fair Mormon that helped me leave the LDS Church, not Mormon Stories podcast.

John Dehlin [00:13:06] And when Sam left the church, I looked on Fair Mormon trying to find answers because I was really wanting to keep our family together as an eternal family. And the answers they provided were often dismissive of our concerns and did not answer the questions that we had.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:13:24] When the essays came out, you know, things got a little crazy and I looked to places like fairmormon for help in maintaining some sort of semblance of what's right with this really messed up history. And what I found was that they were twisting or sugarcoating things to fit a narrative, which led to eventually my shelf just breaking apart. And with that comes this idea that you have to tell your loved ones, okay, I can't swallow this pill anymore, the toothpaste is out of the tube and I can't put it back in. Then comes, you know, ideas of divorce and splitting you from your children,

John Dehlin [00:14:17] and

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:14:18] you're trying to grasp for help. And the only community out there, the only community helping people navigate this scenario, are people like John Dolan and Mormon Stories. So shortly after we got married, I started to have a faith crisis. And during that time, I didn't feel like I had anyone to talk to about the problems and the concerns that I was dealing with. And when I discovered Mormon Stories, it was really healthy for me because I found a community of people that were all going through the same thing that I was experiencing. And it meant a lot to me that I could listen and see people and I could have my feelings validated.

John Dehlin [00:14:56] I found Mormon's stories podcast in 2020 after I had already found out some of the many hurtful things that the LDS Church had caused upon me and I had been a member for almost my entire life, and I was dedicated to it. And if it weren't for Mormon Stories podcast, I would have struggled way more than I did. And I can Without a doubt, 100% say that Mormon Stories podcast has helped me and my family get through this crisis of our faith and the transitions that we've been able to go through.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:15:36] I'm currently dating a girl who's lds, who's a member of the church. I'm obviously not. That creates a lot of problems and conflict, particularly with her family. I found Mormon Stories to be really useful. I don't know a lot about Mormonism, and it's really powerful to see people who've gone through the experience of having been in the church. And for someone like me, giving me an insight into what are some of the things that other people go through, it's really, really useful and allows me to make it easier in terms of managing my relationship with the girl I love and makes it a lot less destructive in terms of some of the conflicts that we end up having with her family.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:16:18] I just wanted to put in my testimony that Mormon Stories has been incredibly helpful for me and my family. Every story that I've listened to on Mormon Stories has been incredibly helpful for my journey and redefining my life and my identity. It's benefited every area of my life and my marriage, my direct family, for example. How do I have a healthy relationship with my parents who are still believing Mormons? And it's been incredibly helpful and wonderful, and we've never been happier.

John Dehlin [00:16:55] Mormon Stories was one of our biggest supports and beacons of light because we were able to hear stories of families who made it work, families who are happy or happier than they were in the church. And it just gave us a lot of hope and encouragement to continue to seek truth and choose what's best for us and our family and for us to heal our relationship. Going through such a hard and taxing trial. When you leave a community, a religion, we don't have a lot of media, social support.

John Dehlin [00:17:36] We're either pushed aside, we are ridiculed, we're called apostates, we ashamed and John de Lynn and the Mormon Stories podcast was what I can tell, specifically meant to help us, individuals that are experiencing that loss, sadness and confusion from leaving a whole life, a whole system of beliefs. When questions and doubts were weighing heavy on our minds and on our marriage, we or I as a mother and a wife, went searching for resources. And I came across a Mormon Stories podcast just a few minutes into Listening to it, I immediately felt comforted and relieved that there were other people out there just like us going through the same thing that we are going through.

John Dehlin [00:18:26] About two years ago, my husband and I went through a major faith crisis. And truly, Mormon Stories is what saved my life. I was in a really dark place of heartbreak, confusion, and just so much hurt.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:18:45] In early 2017, I suffered a faith crisis after doing research about church history for a class that I was teaching. At the time, I had no idea who John Dehlin was. I didn't know what the CES letter was, but I found myself in an existential crisis. Not knowing if there's a God, if there's an afterlife. I lost sleep over it. I was depressed about it. I told my wife what I had learned, but it fell on her differently. For the first time, we believed differently. This had never happened, and this put a wedge between us.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:19:09] A year or so later, my wife found the Mormon Stories podcast. We both started listening, and I was blown away by the fact that there were other couples that had gone through the same thing we had. It was extremely therapeutic. It was so interesting to learn and hear their stories. It helped in ways I can never explain. I had a lot of serious questions and a lot of serious concerns.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:19:27] Bless my bishop's heart. And all the church members, try as they might, they just couldn't reach me like they wanted to. And when I came across Mormon Stories and a number of other podcasts, I found a source of people who were going through the same struggles I was going through. And it helped me be able to.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:19:57] Well, I'll be quite honest, it brought me back from the brink of suicide. I was very deep down that path. And if it wasn't for even knowing that there were other people out there who were going through the same problems I was, and hearing their stories and how they dealt with them really helped me, really helped me basically stick around.

John Dehlin [00:20:26] I was born in the covenant and raised within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Our home was one of domestic violence. After I left home, I ran into an LDS ecclesiastical abuser and ended up having to be married to him instead of being rescued by the clergyman who should have saved me. I carried this burden most of my life. I am so thankful that Mormon Stories existed and that I found John Dehlin's interviews with survivors like me at that time, it was eye opening and validating to realize that I had not been the only one. The LDS abusers in leadership positions were much more prevalent than I had thought.

John Dehlin [00:21:05] John and Jeremy you helped my husband at times when he felt hopeless. He saw in you kindness and he saw your integrity. This was really important to him. And thanks to you, we'll fast forward to now. We are in a great place. We have found a way to worship our God and Savior in a way that feels like we can do it with integrity and we can do it with our heart and soul and we can do it with the truth.

A Mixed-Faith Couple Finds Validation and Community

John Dehlin [00:21:39] And I started listening to all these videos and interviews of all these other people that were going through the exact same thing that I was. I felt validated. I felt. I felt like less alone. I felt like I was like, I can do this. I can live a life that isn't Mormon. And to John Dehlin, I am forever indebted to you.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:22:09] So during my faith crisis, I searched all over the place for faithful reconciliations to the questions that I had, the difficult questions that I had. And eventually I stumbled upon Mormon Stories podcast. And it was through these individual stories that I was able to make sense of what was going on in my world and my life. And eventually I found meaning and direction and light in what were some of my darkest days.

John Dehlin [00:22:36] After I terminated my 24 year marriage at age 44, I also walked out of the Mormon Church one day, had my name removed from the records as three of my four children, and then decided to really investigate. And Dr. John Delennen, Mormon Stories podcast and all of his beautiful articles and the amazing research that he's done into the truth claims of the Mormon Church set me free. Absolutely set me free. 2020 has been the best year of my life because for the first time ever, I have chosen how to live. And it is a beautiful thing. Thank you, Dr. Delenn.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:23:10] If it weren't for John Dehlin and the Mormon Stories foundation making a safe place for people to navigate mixed faith marriages, I don't know where I'd be right now. And I'm very grateful for Mormon Stories and the Open Stories foundation for providing a safe space for couples who are experiencing a mixed faith marriage to learn and understand that you can be happy in that place. And also I'll say that it's helping my children grow up to understand that people can have differences in opinions or religions and coexist and love one another just the same as if they were in the same religion. Years ago, I had a faith crisis.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:23:48] I had a lot of questions. My relationship in the church changed. I faced a lot of trauma with a few leaders of the church and it really rocked my toes testimony. And I Felt lost, felt depressed. But Mormon Stories has been a light in the darkness. I came across Mormon Stories podcast and it was a great relief to learn that there were thousands of people who had these same experiences.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:24:21] I was determined to make my marriage work and to be a better dad. And I credit Mormon Stories for that. In 2015, I was Sunday school president in Southern California, teaching youth about all the things that we teach them, about prayer and answers to prayers and their struggles as being teenagers.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:24:42] And I couldn't help but think these kids are leaning on me. They're leaning on me believing that I have a testimony and that I believe this stuff with all my heart. But I didn't know. I didn't know. That's the first time in my life that I wondered if what I was teaching was right. I served a mission, I'd been in bishopric's, I had been in elders quorum presidencies, and you know, never did it occur to me until this moment that something might not be right. In fact, something felt off.

John Dehlin [00:25:21] I am the only member in my family who has transitioned out of the church as daughter, as a sister. Mormon Stories has done nothing but encourage me to compassionately listen to my family. It's helped me understand where my family's coming from.

John Dehlin [00:25:38] And it's encouraged me to, in the face of our religious differences, to remember what is most important, despite my negative emotions, which I should feel and process. But discipline in the face of remembering that my familial relationships are far more important than our differences. Honestly, John, I don't know what I would have done without Mormon Stories. Fortunately, I stumbled upon Mormon Stories. I did a Google search and found you. Had never heard of you before, but I started devouring the episodes and you were. It was like being thrown a life preserver. I just reached out and grabbed on and held on for dear life as wave over wave washed over me.

John Dehlin [00:26:25] And I felt so betrayed. And Ormond's stories, the people that you had on there, your wisdom and your compassion and even your kindness and your nuance helped me realize I could work through this betrayal. I felt this, the anger. You know, we just go through these stages.

John Dehlin [00:26:46] But you helped me through all of that and gave me the courage to eventually tell my husband, hi, honey, he's filming, he's smiling and honestly, our relationship is better than it ever was before. Truthfully, he's nodding. We've learned how to better communicate as a couple. We've learned how to better communicate with our still true believing member family members and we've learned how to better Communicate with our children and Mormon stories has been a priceless gift in our lives.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:27:18] It truly has. In early 2019, we attended a Thrive event that John put on. It was three days of classes and ways of helping us understand what we had gone through. We got to talk to other couples that had gone through the same thing we had. We learned the importance of emotional intimacy, vulnerability, being transparent, all things that I had very little experience with. We also learned how we could still raise our kids with great morals and values, how we can still speak to our our friends and family that still believe in the church. I felt like I got like a year's worth of rehab in a single weekend.

John Dehlin [00:27:50] I just cannot say enough amazing things about John and the foundation. It is the epitome of Christlike love. He was willing to, you know, mourn with me when I was mourning and to comfort me when I standed in need of comfort.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:28:10] Has Mormon Stories podcast helped or destroyed my family? It has helped me in a lot of ways that I thought it was just a podcast and that eventually became something that was. It helped bring me community. It helped bring peace to me. It helped me realize that I wasn't alone. These doubts and concerns I had were. Were actually legit and concerning.

John Dehlin [00:28:38] As I started to ask questions and couldn't find answers to my questions, I went to the Gospel topics essays on the church website and ultimately I left. That's pretty obvious. But my husband was still. Is still in. He actually is in the bishopric. I was worried when I first left the church, which was about a year and a half ago, that our marriage wouldn't be able to make it.

John Dehlin [00:29:03] I owe our wonderful relationship in part to John Dehlin because he's been able to illustrate the ability to thrive after a faith crisis. Mormon stories helped us to grow closer and helped us to see that marriage didn't have to just be based on religion alone, as I'd been taught before, but that there are so many other more deep and meaningful things to marriage. I am an ex Mormon. My husband and I went through a faith crisis, and due to the advice of John de Lynn, we communicated throughout the whole ordeal.

John Dehlin [00:29:46] So I'm happy to say that we ended up still being married, still being happily married. When I went into my faith transition originally, I had the overwhelming feeling that I had been left by my church. You know, we talk about leaving the 90 and 9 for the 1.

John Dehlin [00:30:09] And unfortunately, during that time, I absolutely felt like the One. I felt like church leadership had left me in order to help the 90 and nine members of the church stay in and stay comfortable. And I felt like I was the one that was being left behind because I had questions and there was nothing set up to help me. There are no resources made available to active church members. I did have some email correspondence with some volunteers at fairmormon, and I know that their hearts were in the right place. But unfortunately, there are no good answers for most of the difficult questions in church history and church doctrine. So Mormon Stories was absolutely essential in helping me find the answers that I needed and the community that I needed.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:30:58] Mormon Stories podcast, hosted by John Dehlin, absolutely played a part in my divorce. And if you consider that within your definition of the destruction of the family, then I guess you're right. That John Dehlin and Mormon Stories podcast, in part at least, destroyed my family.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:31:21] We, however, are not destroyed by any means. I have an incredible relationship with my ex wife and I have an incredible relationship with my children that I'm glad to have every single day. And I feel that through the loss of my faith in the Church of the Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that I'm a much more open and authentic person.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:31:43] And it ultimately gave me the courage to come out as a gay man. Was it hard? It absolutely was. Would I do it again? Absolutely I would. The Mormon Stories podcasts have inspired me. They've educated me, they've motivated me, they've uplifted me, they've made me feel like I'm not alone and like I'm not crazy and have had such a. Such a positive impact on my life, especially during a critical time when, when I really needed something to help me feel like I was not losing it.

John Dehlin [00:32:31] Two years ago, when I started researching church history with a heart full of faith and the desire to increase my testimony, I was met with extreme heartache, to say the least. And I'm grateful for you and several other podcasters who were able to help me in a time when I was broken. Most of my family is still active members of the church, so being able to have a relationship with them that is healthy and compassionate and loving has taken some some time. I can't do anything about how they behave or what they think or whatever, but I can do a lot as far as my interaction with them. And I did not want to lose my family over the church. I had already lost so much and did not want to lose my family too.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:33:28] I have seen John Dehlin in Mormon Stories podcast on many occasions, provide coaching moments where he encourages patience and long suffering and allowing believing spouses or other family members to have space to continue to believe, to. To respect that choice and that belief. He has, I think, repeatedly demonstrated that he is trying to help relationships and allow people to heal. That's been my experience. I gotta say that Mormon Stories has helped my family and Fair Mormon has also helped my family because it really was helpful to feel like I was weighing both sides, you know, and I think that's part of what makes these recent videos with Cardinalis and Brad and Kwaku so disappointing because they're so dismissive and mocking and those really are hurtful.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:34:28] They don't help at all. And it really kind of hurts because it's a tough thing to go through and it feels like they're not taking it seriously and they're not giving credit to people who I think are sincere. You know, I think John De Lynn and Jeremy Reynolds are just as sincere as the people in fairmormon who wrote a lot of the content. That helped me evaluate, you know, that. That side of the argument. You 100% obviously care about keeping families and loved ones together and bridging that gap.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:35:03] Anybody that spent any amount of time at all, all listening to you and the different podcasts and the people that you bring on could not argue that. That's just. It's. It's lies is what it is. I did come across Fair Mormon and was completely disappointed. If it's supposed to be a resource for people to seek answers, all it does is provide duplicitous answers and narratives that do not match with what the church teaches from its manuals and from the pulpit.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:35:37] It was absolutely of no use to me. And their tone and the way they disparage people who question probably dug the hole a little deeper for me to realize that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a true church.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:35:55] Never once has I ever heard the words come out of John de Linde's mouth that anyone should leave the church. He always leaves that as a deeply personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves. On his podcast, he has members and non members alike, disaffected members, ex Mormons on his podcast. He just wants a fair, unbiased way to present the information and to help everyone to be at peace with their either membership or non membership inside of the Mormon Church. Personally, for me, I don't know if I would be alive today if it wasn't for the Open Stories Foundation. Honestly, I was going through a lot of psychological trauma, depression, and really solitude when I was going through my faith transition.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:36:44] Because when one is surrounded by like minded people and that's all you know. Every single person, friend, family member that you're in contact with thinks the exact same way. As soon as you start doubting and questioning, it's easy to get gaslit and sometimes unintentionally, but it's, it's easy to fall into that psychological trap of feeling like you are the crazy one. But open the Open Stories Foundation, John specifically and Jeremy Runnels specifically, they did

John Dehlin [00:37:22] not

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:37:25] convince me of anything. What they did was they opened up a world to other individuals that thought the same way that I did. And it gave us a support system and it gave us other stories and other perspectives.

John Dehlin [00:37:41] I've been married 17 years now and I have four children. And just recently my husband and I have gone through our own faith crisis and it's not easy. And there was emptiness and pain and Mormon Stories actually helped support us through this, through this decision. It opened doors for us, it started conversations. We were able to be really honest with each other and really reflect together on what we believed and how to share it with our family. The community has meant so much to us. It's provided a safe place for us to have questions. We were never really allowed to have questions from the LDS community. It's assumed that you're sinning or that you don't have enough faith, which was not the case. So just the safety alone has been huge. And also not to mention just a feeling of I'm not alone, we're not alone. There are others who also question and it's okay.

Finding Like-Minded People and Shared Truth

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:39:00] Mormon Stories was very important for my ability to be able to find like minded people, understand that I wasn't the only one that was seeing these things. I wasn't crazy. Other people saw and understand what was happening and felt the same way as I did. And they had to get out, they had to leave the church and move on and do something else.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:39:21] It was so important to be able to communicate with people who lived with their families how they did it, successfully understand the progress or the journey or the path or whatever you want to call it that so many people have made out of the church. And it was very important for me to be able to see that that was possible and helpful and move on. Through Mormon Stories, I was able to find answers, I was able to find support. I was able to find lessons and examples of how to pick up the pieces that shattered in my life, rebuild myself and the relationship with my family.

John Dehlin [00:40:05] I feel like John has always tried to present the information in an unbiased way and let people tell their experiences and never have. I felt as though this podcast was intended to tear families apart. And if I'm being completely transparent, some of the things that tore my family apart were when I was in leadership roles as a member of the church and taken away from my family to perform the duties required for that calling, when really I should have been at home helping with my family. And that was where in my heart I wanted to be.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:40:50] I stayed in that quiet place in my heart and in my mind for two years without telling anybody, not even my wife. After that, I started testing the waters a bit. Telling my wife it made it was very, very clear that that was not going to work. But ultimately I couldn't keep it to myself anymore and I couldn't stay hidden. It was causing a depression like I had never experienced before in my life. One day my brother in law announced to the family that he was leaving the church and I immediately reached out to him for a lifeline and he pointed me to Mormon Stories Podcast). John Dehlin when you're going through a faith crisis to hear other stories of people who have experienced the same alienation and the same darkness and the same difficulty, there's nothing like it.

John Dehlin [00:41:48] I'm grateful for the stories that are shared here for people who have poured out their experiences and the difficulties that it is to lose your worldview and to lose a religion that you have clung to for your whole life. The hurt, the betrayal, the anger, the sadness, the despair, the loneliness and being able to relate to these other individuals in the world that are experiencing the same things has been an incredible help to my recovery and I'm sure many others. Without John and Jeremy and again others,

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:42:35] our family would be dissolved.

John Dehlin [00:42:37] And it's personally helped me and our family have healing and peace and a space where we can talk about things that the Church does not provide.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:42:47] And it's LDS theology that is actually responsible for tearing families apart by telling our family members, our parents and our siblings that we're evil, controlled by Satan,

John Dehlin [00:43:04] jeopardizing our eternal family. And it puts a wedge between us and makes them think differently of us and see us in a lesser light. I just felt that support and I felt like I wasn't alone. And that's really important for mental health. So I really appreciate all the work that they have done. They are honest seekers of truth. I will attest to that.

John Dehlin [00:43:29] The people in the post Mormon community really care about truth. So we're not evil, we're not deceived by Satan. It's just that we care about truth. I am so grateful for John Dehlin and all of the research that he does. I love how kind he speaks about the church. And he still wants the best for the members and for the leaders of the church, and really just seems to want change and reform in order for everybody to fit into the church. Mormon Stories has always been positive about both sides and both choices whether to be in the church or to not.

John Dehlin [00:44:09] And it does not seem very Christlike to me that they're smearing and wanting to cause harm to people who are just trying to be supportive and do good in this world. And I think anybody who's doing good should be compensated for the work that they're doing.

John Dehlin [00:44:30] And it seems like John de Linde has done it very modestly and has lived a modest life, but he definitely needs to be able to take care of his family, especially while he's doing such good in this world.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:44:42] Mormon Stories is not out to take down the church. They're doing a fine work at that themselves. I've been so dedicated to truth my entire life that once I started to see the truth, primarily through the resources that John Dehlin and Mormon Stories provided, and Jeremy Reynolds with the CES letter provided, I had no choice.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:45:10] I had to seek truth wherever it could be found, because that's who I am in my bones. That's who I. That's who. Who Mormonism brought me up to be, was a truth seeker. People are leaving and they have stories.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:45:28] There's nothing the church is going to be able to do to change that. And those who are leaving, who feel alone, need the stories. And when their neighbors won't accept them or their families won't accept them, they need to know somebody out there will.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:45:48] They are helping you figure out, how can your family stay together through. Not through your faith crisis, but through the church's truth crisis. That's what Mormon Stories does. That's what it's done for me, because it's given me a platform to see others who've gone through the exact same situation.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:46:09] Really, there's just not a lot of tools out there, unfortunately, for this. And so I would say thank you from the bottom of my heart for existing, especially during the time when I went through this. I can't imagine people going through this before social media or podcasts where we could share ideas and not feel crazy for, you know, thinking certain ways. Honestly, I don't know what our family would look like today, what my life would look like today, if it wasn't for this. Podcast), specifically, these individuals, specifically and other individuals like them that have the courage enough to stand up against authoritarianism and question and doubt and know that it's okay to do so. Mormon Stories has given me hope where there was none. They're not splitting families up. They're doing the opposite. They're helping families stay together.

John Dehlin [00:47:14] If anything, it has brought my family together stronger and opened our hearts and our minds to such a big, beautiful world out there. And I look forward to more stories.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:47:26] I would say that Mormon Stories is the opposite of a family destroyer or breaker. It was a way for us to move forward and keep our family together. We saw that it was possible. We saw how to do it. To be clear, we were done with the church. We were leaving the church regardless. Mormon Stories didn't cause us to leave the church or provide any flame to that, any fuel to that fire. What it did was provide a stability and an understanding in a community. It didn't lead to my crisis of faith. That was actually due to material published by the church that I actually decided to look into the source documents for. But the Open Stories foundation produced many helpful videos and resources that help people transition out of the Mormon faith and actually helped me strengthen or continue to have good relations with my family.

John Dehlin [00:48:21] The Mormon Stories podcast has greatly benefited myself, even though it was discovered after a few years into my transition. But it helped my non Mormon spouse understand my background and my family's background. So it's increased our intimacy with each other and our capacity to have empathy. It's helped with my ability to better understand when I was being gaslit, but also to understand Mormonism with grace, which is something that John Dehlin has done so beautifully and has helped create a safe environment for people on all sides of the spectrum. These videos helped me so much. They have helped me find my confidence in myself as a woman, as a wife, as a friend, as a mother. I am happier today than I ever have been. So thank you so much, John Dehlin and Mormon Stories and for all the people that you've interviewed, because this is a very, very, very special YouTube channel.

Healing, Stronger Marriages, and Gratitude

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:49:31] The thing that heals, I think, is truth. And John Dewin speaks truth. Mormon Stories has greatly improved our marriage. Our family has never been better, our kids, Our marriage has never been healthier and happier. And we attribute a huge amount of that to Mormon Stories. I'm thankful and grateful for any and all individuals and institutions that allow people to discuss the difficult topics in Mormonism and that allow people to land at varying levels of faith and belief with Their dignity intact. I really can't emphasize enough how important it has been for me to be able to work through the issues I'm having. And more importantly, it's helped me stay married to the wonderful, beautiful wife that I have and help us both navigate my, you know, my crisis of faith, or whatever the heck you want to call it.

John Dehlin [00:50:36] I think active Mormons would benefit hugely from listening to Mormon stories as they are trying to deal with navigating really complex relationships in their own families, in their own neighborhoods. People are leaving the church more than ever, and that is an issue that is not going away. And I think Mormon stories allows us to understand each other's stories and respect each other other and bridge gaps between two amazing groups of people.

John Dehlin [00:51:05] The interviews helped my marriage, they helped my family, they helped my mental health. I'm also thankful for the CES letter. Some say that it is a lie, but if the church was really true, it wouldn't be harmed by anything thrown at it. That's what I was always taught growing up. And so I want to say thank you to John Dillon and Jeremy Runnels for their courage and to everybody who's ever spoken out about the abuse that they suffered.

John Dehlin [00:51:32] I have never heard John Dillon do anything or say anything that isn't respectful. He does it in a very calm, kind, collected way and he's very educated. He's not sharing anything that isn't sourceful, but he's also just sharing these experience of these people. And his goal is to just help people. So how. How can that be evil at all? I admire him so much, and I hope someday that I could shake his hand and tell him thank you for everything that he's done and know that he's got support here.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:52:10] I can't imagine the struggle I would have gone through if I hadn't had that type of support. John de Limb is not evil, as

John Dehlin [00:52:21] these men have stated.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:52:23] Jeremy Reynolds is not evil. These are men who were doing their best to face crises of their own.

John Dehlin [00:52:35] It's just very unkind and unfair to call John evil. It is the worst word I could ever think of to describe somebody that epitomizes Christlike love.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:52:52] I'd hate something had to happen to more in the stories. I'm an avid listener. I watch it all the time because I certainly feel that there's nothing wrong with sharing people's truth. You know, it's just creating a space where people can sort of say what's happened to them and what their experiences are. And I don't think that we should try to destroy mechanisms that create a forum for people to tell their stories.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:53:18] Thank you, John Dehlin, for putting this together and keeping it going, because it does save lives. My kids, my last, the sophomore in college who was able to come out as gay over the last couple of years or so.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:53:37] And she would not have felt safe to do that hadn't I been fully entrenched in the church as I was. That's a real blessing in my life to be able to be an ally for her and not have the church in the way of that.

John Dehlin [00:53:51] The honesty and openness and just the flow of knowledge, the knowledge that I learn and gain from this podcast and this community relaxes me. It tunes me into my best self. Mormon Stories has done nothing but good for me and my family and has encouraged me to go about this whole experience in a healthy way with everyone around me who thinks differently than me. It's done nothing but good. Nothing but good.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:54:24] I appreciate you. I hope you continue. I literally don't know where I'd be without you and your podcast. I can tell you one thing for sure. I don't know if I'd still be married. I wouldn't have such a great relationship with my whole ward. And it's because of listening to you and all the different individuals that you've brought onto the podcast that I have been able to successfully navigate that it's helped me be a better husband, a better father. I used to have harsh feelings towards the church, and listening to the podcast has helped me cope with my feelings and it's helped me become happier. I'm just a happier person in general. And so, yes, Mormon Stories podcast has made me a happier person and it's helped my family be better. Hasn't destroyed us, not one bit.

John Dehlin [00:55:18] We love Mormon Stories. We listen. We will continue to listen. We support it 100% as a tool that brings people together.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:55:28] We're grateful. And I feel like it's really helped us as a couple and brought our family together even closer. There are not many people on this earth who have invested in Mormons like John Dehlin has to follow. Truth are not easy.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:55:45] And anybody who thinks this journey for me or for anybody else or for John or for Jeremy is easy and profitable, you're gravely mistaken. You have no idea what this is. I don't know what happens after we die. I don't have answers to things that I used to. But thanks to John Delynde and Mormon Stories, I do have the tools to live the most Christlike life I ever Have I help more people now? I give away more money. I don't judge anyone for being different than me. And I embrace diversity. My family is healthier and happier than we've ever been. Thank you, John. Our family has never been better. Our kids, our marriage has never been healthier and happier.

John Dehlin [00:56:28] I just want to thank you and anyone who's saying that you're tearing couples apart. Honestly, I don't know if our marriage would have made it if I hadn't had Mormon Stories to help me, to give me a guide through this tumultuous journey. Our relationship, we feel like we're teenagers. It just is new and great and wonderful. And we thank you. We love you. Thanks, John. I just want to say that I'm so grateful to you, John. I'm so grateful for your foundation.

John Dehlin [00:56:59] There's a community that has been so helpful that is absolutely free to me whenever I need it. So I'm just so incredibly grateful for everything that the foundation and John has done for me and my family and for the community. So thank you.

John Dehlin [00:57:21] This podcast has helped me tremendously and I am so thankful for John De Lynn and Jeremy Reynolds and the work that they are doing to help people and continue to help people.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:57:33] I solemnly support. Mormon Stories has not destroyed me or my family has definitely strengthened our relationship and I'm very grateful for Mormon Stories.

John Dehlin [00:57:45] I'm grateful for Mormon Stories for just helping me feel seen and for providing a space for those of us who needed this platform. And I'm happy that I found it.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:57:58] Mormon Stories has been really healthy for us and we're so grateful for it.

John Dehlin [00:58:02] Mormon Stories has been a tremendous asset to me and my ability as a mother to teach my children and to interact and heal and grow. And so we are forever grateful.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:58:16] I'm very grateful for John Delinden and everyone involved in the Open Stories foundation. And I can quite honestly say that my marriage wouldn't be where it is today without that open minded thinking. So thank you, John. Thank you Mormon Stories and I appreciate everything you guys do. We love John De Lynn. We love Jeremy Reynolds. Thank you for your awesome work with the Mormon Stories podcast and the CAS letter. There's nothing anti about what you do. It's a lifesaver. Keep up the good work, John.

John Dehlin [00:58:44] Thank you again, John, for all the work that you do. I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.

John Dehlin (Mormon Stories Podcast) [00:58:49] Thank you, John.

John Dehlin [00:58:50] Thank you, John. I support Mormon Stories. I am grateful for Mormon Stories and I love John de. Foreign.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.