Lisa Hacking

Leaving the Church and Rebuilding Life

[00:00:00] Sa. On September 1, 2014, the rug was pulled out from under my worldview. With fear, relief and a naive excitement for the future, I began to build my life again. I envisioned me, my kids, my husband Paul, all sitting around in a circle telling each other their opinions and their views. They things that I had never allowed them to say they could now share.

[00:00:57] Things that my dad, the husband of 30 years, had never been able to say that I had shushed him about. My oldest, who had never believed in my worldview. How awesome for him to be able to share his ideas and values. He was a pretty cool guy. I pictured. One would say, oh, for me it's like this. And the other would say, oh, but for me it's like this. Oh, I was so wrong.

[00:01:26] That did not happen. I learned that we didn't share a family circle. Some family members had their own circles, but really they were in bubbles. And communication between bubbles does not happen. I shouldn't have been surprised. Communication is not my best skill. I have generations of communication problems in my DNA. I had been taught never to talk about difficult or differing opinions, repress all negative emotions and defer to authority because when contention arises, the spirit leaves the room.

[00:02:06] Ingrained in my soul with every fiber of my being was the answer to every one of life's problems. Is prayer. I didn't even know counseling or therapy existed to work through stuff. Just. Just as a side note, we didn't go to the medical doctor either. We had an aunt with a heart condition and she could get all the penicillin you needed. So if we had a headache, we took an aspirin. If we had a cold, we took Aunt Sal's pills. If it didn't go away within a few days, we had a blessing. We all lived. So it must have worked.

[00:02:40] Back to the communication problems because never talk about uncomfortable things was all I knew. And Paul was so faithless, he couldn't be trusted. I taught all of our kids to manage their problems with prayer. One of our kids had a really tough seventh grade year. That year our house burned down and I got really sick. Some mornings he would wake up with no one there but a sibling to tell him mom was in the hospital again. Plus, he was dealing with the weird puberty of liking boys instead of girls. We didn't know this.

[00:03:17] He would go to the attendance office in between classes and call me. And of course, I gave him the great parenting advice. Say a prayer. I'd even say one with him right there on the phone sometimes. Well, needless to say, he needed real tools to handle these really hard things as a kid and prayer was not working.

[00:03:40] He's still a little anxious. He still likes boys, but but he has had the privilege of some amazing therapy giving him coping skills to handle being a human being. Luckily, on the way in raising our family, Paul had developed he's here today too. I'm so excited.

[00:03:59] Paul had developed some communication skills, so he stepped in to repair our broken family. He showed us a tool we could use to resolve much of the awkwardness and to build together a way forward where our delightful orthodox daughter and our amazing missionary son felt loved, not threatened and safe to be. Around us. He introduced the Venn Diagram.

[00:04:28] This chart shows us to find all the areas of our life that we have in common, all the values we still share, all all the subjects we hold dear, and what ideas are safe to talk about so we could be a part of each other's lives.

[00:04:42] Dad showed our daughter that even though mom had changed, there were still many ways we could connect, including her three kids, our grandkids, but maybe not Mom's bare shoulders. In reality, our family was not in bubbles that separated us, but a beautiful, colorful Venn diagram.

[00:05:05] Another huge healing moment for me was when I found community again. I found through Facebook, waca, A group of mature, not old women. They have saved my mental soul, and COCA couples socializing and processing together have filled Pollini's empty cups. If you're a lone monkey, Google Mormon Spectrum and find a tribe.

[00:05:38] A few years ago, I played around with the analogy of testimony as fires after hearing it used as a metaphor in a Mormon Expressions podcast. Everything's a remix, right? I wrote the following essay, which shares succinctly so much of the pain and anguish and redemption and joy and hope that I have found over the last five years in my faith Awakening miracle. And although we have a long way to go in our family, we have put away the hoses, the fire retardant, the smothering blankets, and any other words or actions which our daughter might think will hurt her fire.

[00:06:19] We have learned a simple lesson through Venn Diagram communication. Her fire is hers. Her fire is not as important as our love. Love is the only tool we have to maintain a healthy relationship, and we must respect her journey so that she will respect ours.

Finding a Voice and Feeding the Flame

[00:06:54] A Log on the I threw my first log on the fire when I was 12. When I got called to be in the Beehive Presidency. There were so many girls that could have been chosen, but Mary Beth chose me to be her counselor. What a privilege. I Got to go to extra meetings, be in charge, spend more time with Margaret. And I got a really awesome binder with all the girls phone numbers in it, including my best friend's phone number.

[00:07:21] She was in my ward too, but not in the Beehive presidency. I must have been just a hair bit better than her. I don't know why or how I was better than her, but I must have been for Heavenly Father to tell Mary Beth to pick me and not Linda.

[00:07:37] From age 12 to 16 I threw lots of logs on my fire. Mostly when people were watching. Not great big ones, but enough to get the praise from adults telling me how great my fire was burning. The praise felt good and I was warm.

[00:07:53] My dad, also a privileged individual, was the Bishop. He had thrown many logs on his fire, although he hadn't been doing this his whole life. He spent years mostly during his teens and early twenties that he had lived in the dark.

[00:08:09] He took a break from fire building and he always felt bad about that. The few pictures of him and my mom during that time look like they're having a great time. Kayaking, fishing, education, lots of friends. But apparently they had to get back on track throwing logs so Heavenly Father would bless them with kids.

[00:08:30] I watched my dad throw that enormous burn all night log on his fire as he headed off to bishopric meeting at 5am oh such a privilege. He couldn't talk about what he did there and he had to limit the note taking that he did on his hand. And he fell into bed early every night, dead to the world. I would sometimes just go crawl in bed with him so I could spend some time with him. I would talk his leg off and he would say uh huh huh huh. I'm sure he didn't hear a word I was saying except when his daddy's spidey sense went off telling him I was neglecting my fire.

[00:09:11] And then he would talk for hours about how important it is to keep your fire burning. A fire is the only way you will make it in the cold dark world. Think deep, he'd say. Of course, it was the art of fire building that he wanted me to think deep about. Prayer, scripture, study, fasting. If I had a question, he always had the answer. Throw another log on the fire. Have you taken that problem to the Lord Said this.

[00:09:39] My mom's fire was dancing and bright yellow. She loved throwing logs. She devoted her whole life consumed by fires and helping all of us keep our fires blazing. She not only helped us, she helped ignite fires all around her. 11 year old boys, young Women across the whole valley, Relief Society women and expansion. Especially those ladies lucky enough to call her their visiting teacher.

[00:10:10] My mom knew everyone and every time she saw them, she asked how their flame was doing. Fires are really all she knows how to talk about, but she does crackle cheerfully. Fire building became big business when I moved away from my parents glow and married Paul. Paul. Paul's fire was actually smoldering when I married him. I didn't know this, so now it became my job to keep both of our fires raging. Throwing logs on two fires can become a lot of work.

[00:10:47] Sometimes I would get mad and tell him to be in the cold. You know what it takes to keep a fire roaring if you're not going to do it for yourself, Then just free trees. But then a big problem came.

[00:11:01] So I couldn't let his fire go out. Kids. Yikes. I had to keep his fire kindled. So I would throw a log on mine and then chuck a log on his. It was harder to throw from a distance. But kids, you know.

[00:11:17] Little did I realize keeping two fires burning would be so much work. Sometimes they would be really far apart and I would have to throw a log on mine and then run a long ways to reach Paul's. To throw a log on did help. That heavenly father kept giving me really big jobs. Really big ones. And the logs were really heavy and burned longer, but they were harder to throw and my muscles sometimes got weak.

[00:11:43] I often envied my sister's fire. It was a huge fire and her husband's was really, really close. They could throw logs on each other's fire. Wow. Two bonfires. Oh yeah. Not to forget the Super Duper long lasting source of heat and light. Coal which you can buy for only 10% pre taxed. Of course, Paul was really against this, but I won. As usual.

[00:12:13] I bought more coal than we ever needed just to save up in case something bad happened. And then there was the Super Duper sacred, not secret place that you could go and get super Duper logs. I tried to get Paul to go with me to get some Super Duper logs for his fire. But no, this was just asking too much. So fine, I'll go twice a week. Once to get my super Duper log, once to get his super Duper log.

[00:12:42] So much pressure. But pressure is what a fire is all about. Science, right? I often felt a lot of guilt for not having the perfect fire. I tried more coal. More super Duper logs. Nope, not big enough, not hot enough, not bright enough, not enough.

[00:13:08] So now kids, six fires to Keep going. Some of the kids bought into the fire building business. They ignited their own flame and mostly threw in their own logs. One of them even threw diesel on his for two years.

[00:13:22] Proud momma moment. My blessing. Baby loved building fires. He loved it so much he would go out into the wilderness and spend weeks lighting merit badge fires. He was so good at it. Two summers they paid him to be the firemaster.

Faith, Belonging, and Continuing the Journey

[00:13:43] But apparently fires shouldn't give off rainbow colored smoke. So they kicked him out of the fire building business. That's messed up. God loves everyone. Ask precious moments. It's okay though. He had already figured out fire building was a waste of time. Time. He's much happier and much more fun.

[00:14:10] I tried. I really tried. I even nagged my oldest kid about the importance of logs. But for some reason, he never found fire building important. He said he was warm and he could find his way without firelight. Could this be? Was I a failure?

[00:14:32] Then one day, I was exhausted from all this fire building. I needed Paul to just go with me to the Super Duper Sacred Knot secret place and get his own damn Super Duper log. Because if he didn't go with me, I would have to take another man and that would just be weird.

[00:14:51] I promise I won't make you do it again. Just go this last time. And then I saw his pain. Fire building actually hurt Paul. It seared his soul. It caused him physical pain. Not only did he not like fires, it hurt.

[00:15:17] Wait. I thought. Stop. Okay, I'll listen. Paul told me all about fires. Fires trick your brain into thinking you can't live without them. He showed me how the world is bright, warm and beautiful when you step back from the fire.

[00:15:37] He showed me the wonderful, brave people who are living and loving without fires. He had really left the inferno long ago, but he was still bright. Could this be? No fire. Wow. Who knew? My bosom still burned. I stepped back from my fire and sure enough, he was right. So I found out for myself.

[00:16:04] The world is shining. Brilliant, dazzling, radiant, vibrant. All without a fire. I am loving my life without fire building. I'm discovering who I am inside. And I am enough. I'm getting over the stages of grief and regret with the help of some really amazing people. A therapist thoughtfully told me, a lone monkey is a dead monkey. Lisa, go find a tribe.

[00:16:34] And I found a group of people that fuel their minds with learning, ignite their energy with hiking and blazingly practice. Hiking. LOUD LAUGHTER I have released the volcanic pit of being responsible for everyone's eternal salvation. I am extinguishing the guilt that comes from constantly striving for perfection.

[00:17:03] I am living for today because that's all there is, although no one knows. And here I am, years later, living an amazing life without wasting more time, money, and effort keeping fires going. Oh, every once in a while, I go stand by my parents and siblings. Fires. I'm not sure if they like the twigs I throw.

[00:17:31] Nobody has ever asked me how my flame was smothered. And as Simon and Garfunkel said, silence, like a cancer, grows. Fires are still really important to two of my kids, but not more important than family. And they're going to be okay, because they know that a fire once destroyed our home, but it can never destroy our love.

Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.