Tags

Share this Episode

Comments 25

  1. Just finished Part I of the IOT Quorum podcast. Great job so far John in giving us all a much desired look into who the Infants are and why the Quorum works so well. I thought your owning up to the missed opportunities by you to work with some of them (Glenn in particular) in the past was humble on your part. That is not the action of a guy accused of being a 3.5 on Bob’s Self-Aware Scale! you were a good sport and a great host.

    I am grateful to have the lists of all their favorite IOT and other podcast episodes – as a relative newcomer I have my playlist for the net few weeks.

  2. Hey John,

    I really enjoyed this podcast. I would love to hear a separate Mormon Stories podcast on Jake alone! The brother Jake series is outstanding and it would be interesting to get deeper insight into his process, motivations, and background.

  3. What a downer. I’m much more optimistic about the future of the Church and how we handle sticky issues. I also disagree that the church will become more and more extremely conservative over time. History shows us differently…fairly recent history. Just because things don’t change as quickly as some would like doesn’t mean they won’t.

    John, I really don’t think you’re going to be facing excommunication…but what do I know. Maybe that’s a hope.

  4. A remarkable interview, here, guys. I experienced the interview as a microcosm of the entire Mormon Stories canon as well as the arc of your story on the web, John. The back-to-back questions, “What is something you feel vulnerable about” and “What is something you’re proud of about yourself” yielded a rich vein of human hopes and fears that I identify with. While I’m not inclined to profanity personally, I love these guys as decent fellow human beings. That some of the edited snippets from their podcast made me giggle reveals something about myself as well. To use the vernacular of the group, the inclusion of profanity and mocking of some of the leaders will probably bring a sh*tstorm of complaints your way!

    1. Let the heavens flow with a benighted sh*tstorm and see what “our Heavenly Father” does –– just to say Gonhorra, will pay no mind. Great Podcast guys, first time encounter. Keep the ball of irreverence up in the air; today there are few ball worth the lofting.
      Here’s hoping for a happy landing after it all gets sorted out in the end.

      loved the banter, love to see more, ephima

  5. I would be interested to hear more about Brother Jake’s motives for creating his videos. He says that it is therapeutic for him, although most current research supports the idea that this type of catharsis doesn’t eliminate stress or aggression, but can actually work to increase it. While it may feel liberating to deride his former belief system, the result is that it causes tension in his family and likely serves as a psychological net loss. Even if the goal were to educate others, it is only fodder for confirmation bias for those who have left/are leaving the church, while for TBMs the videos can have the opposite intended effect and actually strengthen their current beliefs (see the belief perseverance effect). Thus, since it is likely no benefit to his mental health and it probably isn’t changing anyone’s mind, then I think the real impetus is to just get attention. This isn’t meant to be a criticism, but only an invitation for us to be self-reflective about why we do what we do.

    1. Danny: it appears the counter-apologetic works of Brother Jake strikes at the heart of atleast one TBM who doesn’t like his hilarious works of satire and irony regarding “The Religion Making Business.”
      Brother Jake seems proud of his documentation of duplicity and fraud in route to heaven.

      If priests of The Temple develop ticks from the efforts of Brother Jake, that is their problem. Jake, is inspired by his search for honesty and meaningful expression; a vision-quest of sorts –– once Brother Jake realized he’d been Bamboozled by the leaders of his tribe, as a thinking human being, he is inspired to engage for the sake of the greater good –– not just Mormon Good.
      Danny Please reflect on your castigation and think of what pathologies you may have exposed in your thoughts.
      “This isn’t meant to be a criticism, but only an invitation for us to be self-reflective about why we do what we do.”

      Perhaps you could share Brother Jake’s efforts with you children or the gentile neighbors next door. Let them decide what pathologies Brother Jake displays.

      1. 1) I did not suggest that there was any evidence of pathology in Brother Jake, so to frame my argument as such and then attack it is, by definition, a straw man argument.
        2) To assume that I am a TBM and then to make that part of your argument is an ad hominem attack.
        3) Your value-laden language creates a situation where you are poisoning the well.
        Allow me to restate my position and perhaps you can engage my points directly:
        Brother Jake said that doing the videos is therapeutic. I noted that from a psychological perspective, this activity may be counterproductive, and questioned whether it is still a net benefit for him after considering that it causes disharmony in his family.
        I further noted that satire is an ineffective tool for changing people’s deep-seated beliefs, so if it is not helping psychologically and it is not educating anyone, what is the point? I bring this up, and the issue of self-reflection because humans are not very good at recognizing their true motives for doing things (see introspection illusion cognitive bias).
        Inasmuch as I am commenting on his reasoning, you are welcome to comment on mine. I appreciate constructive feedback, but please stay focused on my actual arguments.

        1. 1) I did not suggest that there was any evidence of pathology in Brother Jake, so to frame my argument as such and then attack it is, by definition, a straw man argument.
          2) To assume that I am a TBM and then to make that part of your argument is an ad hominem attack.
          3) Your value-laden language creates a situation where you are poisoning the well.
          Allow me to restate my position and perhaps you can engage my points directly:
          Brother Jake said that doing the videos is therapeutic. I noted that from a psychological perspective, this activity may be counterproductive, and questioned whether it is still a net benefit for him after considering that it causes disharmony in his family.
          I further noted that satire is an ineffective tool for changing people’s deep-seated beliefs, so if it is not helping psychologically and it is not educating anyone, what is the point? I bring this up, and the issue of self-reflection because humans are not very good at recognizing their true motives for doing things (see introspection illusion cognitive bias).
          Inasmuch as I am commenting on his reasoning, you are welcome to comment on mine. I appreciate constructive feedback, but please stay focused on my actual arguments.

          1. Danny, I’m surprised:
            On poisoning the well, I have never drunk the water, but I have lived among many who have. Danny, when one drinks from the well for years one can have a confirmation bias bordering on delusion. When one draws attention to that bias it’s called an attack ad hominem by “poisoning the well.”
            Brother Jake is guilty of what? His satire attempts to filter the water so all can drink. If one opens up the windows to let the bad air out one is accused of using an ineffective tool, satire, to expose ignorance.
            Satire is, perhaps, the most effective tool for shedding light into darkness.
            Mark Twain stated; The Book of Mormon is “an unusually effective cure for insomnia” –– I concur.

            On causing disharmony; when armed with a hammer, one can see in the “Religion Making Business” everything else is a nail needing pounding.
            Now that I have been pounded down and Brother Jake is exposed I pray you are satisfied with your diagnosis.
            Yet there still remains raised nail-heads exposed for Saints to trip and fall.
            “This isn’t meant to be a criticism, but only an invitation for us to be self-reflective about why we do what we do.”
            I appreciate constructive feedback, but please stay focused on my argument.

        2. Externalities mount as the baggage of Mormonism moves further into the light of day.
          I’m going to answer Danny’s question before it is asserted.
          Yes, I’m a gentile.
          Gentiles have a horse in this race too.
          As a tax free entity, we Gentiles, are subsidizing the usurpation of the public good. Mormons as both, political and social/economic animals aspire to “Liberty through Obedience.”
          The externalities for the social good are extreme for Mormons and citizens too.
          Ponder, the gentile benefit, what can be made of this?
          Where is the social good?
          I have no answers but I have more questions . . .

          As it is, We Gentiles have more of a stake in Mormonism than Mormons do. Mormons need to shake out the dust motes for all the citizens –– ask serious questions?
          Dig deep.

          Externalities mount as the baggage of Mormonism moves further into the light of day confirming “spiritual fraud.

          1. Thanks for your comment, but it is clear that you’re not actually interested in engaging in a dialogue, so this is where I respectfully bow out.

  6. Wow. Best quote: “I value the truth above my happiness.” The honesty in the 2nd part is so striking, and resonated with me so strongly. I sometimes wish I could go back to my place of ignorant bliss, but I can’t, and in truth so much bothered me even then. So I can’t take that blue pill either. Thank you guys for sharing. Thanks for making yourselves vulnerable.

  7. I have been a MS listener for a little over a year and gotten through about half of the episodes (and loved them). I have recently been finding some more stuff outside of MS to listen to. Infants on Thrones will now be the top of that list. I know that I would be great friends with these guys as they already participate in one of my favorite activities (swearing around my Mormon friends and family). The irreverent tone was perfect and I loved how they did not take themselves too seriously! Thanks so much and keep the great content coming!

  8. I rather enjoy the frat-boy banter with audio production. Having been an IOT junkie for the past year I can say that it is so good to be able to laugh at things that have caused so much pain in so many lives. They talk about serious subjects in a fun way and I find their insight valuable. It is nice to take a break from the “real scholars” and just laugh. Besides, who can resist TSM doing “Baby come back!?”

  9. I can’t understand how these guys have not had any church disciplinary action (presumably, they remain “members in good standing”, with the exception being the single one who has resigned his membership). Actual believing members, such as Kate Kelly and Denver Snuffer get ex’d, and yet these guys, who are blasphemous and flaunt their disbelief, are not touched. These guys are totally out in the open, and Glen even had a podcast calling out his stake president, and yet nothing. Avraham Gileadi must be dismayed at being ex’d while these guys have no actions against them. Maybe if Bro. Gileadi just had a podcast and mocked the writings of Isaiah instead of interpreted them, his membership would have been untouched.

  10. This podcast was fun to listen to! I had never heard of Brother Jake. After the podcast I looked him up on youtube. HIs videos are hilarious! Thank you John for these wonderful podcasts. I’m an active member of the church and find them fascinating. It’s great to hear about people inside and outside the church because ultimately we have all participated in a very unique culture and religion. These stories would not be well understood by people outside mormonism. I look forward to these each week. thanks.

  11. One of the gentlemen mentioned an episode on “Apostasy” on Mormon Stories and said that it brought him to tears. I can’t find a podcast on that subject in the online list of episodes. Does anyone know which episode he referred to?

    I have become almost addicted to Mormon Stories. Many times I am startled and gratified to hear someone say something that I have thought many times in my heart and then blamed myself for not being more spiritual. The validations I am receiving may well save my life and sanity. I am a mother, grandmother and great grandmother of many TBMs. I often despair that I have led so many, including my own family, into this morass of ignorance. I have a lot to answer for and it doesn’t matter that I was well meant at the time. In my heart I doubted. These stories are healing and I thank you!

  12. On suspension of disbelief:

    Danny, I thought Brother Jake was the object of our subjectivity. Given you language, I can only conclude, you must have therapy credentials along with debating skills and a burning in the belly.
    How can I have a meaningful dialogue when Satan lurks and Demons creep. How can I embrace “liberty through obedience,” and “the terrors of the damned” and engage in meaningful conversation using the Mormon Bible as a foundation stone for your rhetoric?
    I have no defenses against this conjecture.

  13. Great interview, very funny and insightful.

    I believe it was Matt that referenced a previous interview where he talks in detail about Boyd K Packer. Where can we find that?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *