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  1. Wow! Love this podcast. Toward the end when John talked about integrity, I thought of the times my mother told me 40 years ago that I’d still be a Mormon if only I hadn’t taken the church so seriously. Then she’d sparkle with pride that I thought honesty was a more important “Mormon” value than what our neighbors in the Upper Snake River Valley of Idaho might be thinking. It’s not so lonely these days with “Mindy”, John, RFM, et. al., at our fingertips. But lonely or not, it’s worth it to be true- something that ironically the church doesn’t “get.” Thank you for making my afternoon!

  2. Love the tiktoks! So cute, fun & imaginative! Totally identify w/the betrayed ‘soul crushing ‘ comment!! -Duped by a cult of conartists.

  3. Thank you John for all that you do. You have helped so many, myself included. I feel a need to point out something that is very disturbing in this interview (and in your work in general). Multiple times during this interview when Kayla described the horrible psychological and emotional abuse that she experienced at the hands of her mother you followed up these revelations with some sort of excuse, or defense of her mother (and others) claiming they were ‘not bad people’ or they were ‘just doing what they were taught as Mormons’. If abusers are not held accountable for the abuse they perpetrate on others because of their mindset, motivation, or other, then who is accountable? No one? Is it then no longer abuse because of their intentions??? This passive invalidation is very destructive. All abusers are warped, and most often they are convinced they are doing the right thing when they abuse people. And most often when abusers are not held accountable for the truth of their behavior the person they abuse continues to carry the weight and responsibility of that abuse, even if inadvertently. As someone who has survived much of the same that Kayla describes here, I can tell you that an enormous turning point in my recovery process came when I finally allowed the abuser (my mother) to be accountable for the abuse she leveled upon me at her own hands. Kayla was so giving to share her story. She obviously has been very affected by the abuse she has suffered. I don’t think supporting her in protecting her abuser(s) is doing her, or your audience a service, regardless of how comfortable it makes the moment of revelation feel. All the very best. -Daniel

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    2. Daniel,

      I really appreciate your comment. I went through similar things, and even to myself I keep making excuses for the hurt I received at the hands of my family, and the hurt I continue to receive. “They’re good people”, or “they’re just brainwashed”, etc. You’re right, my family are good people, but I will always be made to feel lesser to them simply because I’m a gay man who finally could take the abuse and self hate no more and left the church. They will ALWAYS send me the toxic abusive “you’re not living right, you’re not good enough, but we love you” message that is really NOT OK. It’s ok for me to recognize the behavior for what it is, emotional manipulation and abuse. Your comment was an “Aha” moment for me, so thank you.

  4. Kayla, I am nearly 80 now and have only been out of the church for about 4 years. For over 40 years I was a college professor, so one could believe that I was well read and fairly intelligent and knowledgeable. But , even though I was be nature a skeptic, I tried to stay in the church. However, I had always had significant doubts, but I kept putting them away to help me keep the church true. I had never been to a website, until shortly before resigning from the church. I had no idea of what information was out there pro or con concerning the church. Today, I am so grateful to Rfm, John Dehlin, you, and so many others who stories that I relate to to help me understand who I once was, who I am now, and who I may become. So thanks girl for you!

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